My Morning Jacket

just for curiosity's sake,
what do all of you think defines an authentic life? what do you think the most essential points are, in successfully leading an honest, genuine, true life?

i'm just trying to see if it differs from a (almost) sixteen year old perception.
and most of you are not (almost) sixteen.
so tell me.

Well, I'm 25 and I'm pretty much trying not to be as cynical as life seems to be becoming.

I'm the big 30!  I try to live an authentic life.  Here are my thoughts.

this might be cheesy, but....be where you are at, cause you are already there.  trust your gut.  be true to yourself.  if you know what you want and who you are, then be that.  treat people as you like to be treated.  positive thoughts breed positive actions (i am constantly working on that one!!!)  

for me, it's about forgiviness (self and others). Now, I don't buy into the whole forgive and forget nonsense, however, I have come to find out that I beat myself up over my mistakes (and beat others up (mentally) over theirs), and it's a waste of time. I am discovering that true forgivness is very hard and very liberating.

i mean, i think authenticity is one of hte most complex philisophical equations to ever even begin to probe at.  it gets into the question of fate, and destiny, i think.  as well as nature vs. nurture.  the entire topic makes me want to barf, and i find myself becoming envious of freud and sartre and nietzsche, simply for being able to think. there are (essentially) two ways to look at this, really. on one hand, you can't not be you. the bottom line is that you're the only you you can ever be.  there is no wrong and there is no right because it all just is.... (Lenny bruce once said "The "waht should be" never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. there is no what should be. there is only what is".) i find myself believing this. i'm not a believer of hte "should have"s or the "would have"s because we all know that one simple decision can change everything.

granted, i suppose you can act oppositely from what you feel, avoiding struggle, pain, confusion, which i find equally unsettling, yet just as convincing of an argument.  there's a fine line, and i'm afraid i'm on the fence.  i dont' know if i quite believe in fate or destiny. im' not religious at all, yet i don't see why they have to go hand in hand.  human nature is curiosity, right?  i think if i had to illustrate it, it'd be a fine string, a big bulge in the middle that resolved in a fine string.  beofre and after those two strings there is nothing. the beginning symbolizes your first decision. your first conscious decision. the middle is full of infinate pathways. perhaps its dark for a reason. the end of the string symbolizes the end of your life.  how everything played out.
i guess i essentially believe that everything coems to an end. and it doesn't matter waht happens in between.
life is like a very full worm in space. it's belly expanded in both directions, until you ebnd up at the tail, lying at rest.

(http://photos-742.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v74/39/77/1233630261/n1233630261_30248742_6954.jpg)

i don't mean to be so morbid.
it all just is.

Maybe everything comes to an end. I refuse to think about it that way. Perhaps we should just ignore it and let the end happen when it happens. Not a fun topic, I just skip over it. Maybe that's why I am religous. I feel that if there is a 0.00001% chance of there being something along the lines of eternity, then anything we do on earth should be living for that, seeing as infinity completely renders earthly time as basically nothing.

As for the whole "what should be" issue...what should be is made up by people. For example, some people who weren't raised with the same idea of right and wrong could kill hundreds and think they were doing the right thing.

An authentic life? I just go with my gut on this one. If something I do seems productive, then I don't argue. Arguing just makes it more complicated.

dark -
yes, everything is relative. there are convincing arguments that go against my morals sparking war, conflict, destruction etc.

but not arguing? that's ridiculous. how can you ever learn without questioning? life is about questioning. at least for me. i exhaust myself to tears (quite literally, unfortunately) and familiarize myself with uncomfortable questions that i know that i will never find the answer to. why? because there is no real answer. but why wouldn't you make a convincing answer for yourself? that's life. and that's the mystery. and i do understand that taking away that mystery would be inhuman and ridiculous.  but there is so much that we could know that we don't... and who would you be if you didn't probe?

robots aren't people.

thinking about this makes my head explode. everything is relative. emotions, senses, relations. this could essentially mean that nothing is real to anything or anyone but you.  please excuse my existential ramblings, but i just found myself so caught up over thsi recently.

i recently proved the existence of god.  our life is centered around entropy. entropy is defined, essentially, as chaos.  chaos is defined as a lack of order. but having and having not arise together (thanks lao tsu).  this ultimately means that disorder is an order itself. orders have to be arranged.  therefore something arranged it. therefore there is a god.
a god in the loosest definition.
but there is a counter argument that seems just as comforting. i like the comfort.  i could be god, in the sense that i am the only real one. just as you (the general "you") are the only real one. being that everything i (you) do and act and say and think and create is only in my (or your) head. i can express it, but it wont be expressed to someon eelse in the same way, being that i can't ever articulate (even to myself in my own head) what i mean by every action, expression, creation. who the fuck knows.
it's funy to think about how many lenses you adopt subconsciously, even throughout a day...

i'm not trying to offend anybody out there. i am most certainly saying this in the most respectful way.  ugh. i hate this.

I forgive both of you...

What Face said, the idea of a "authentic life" goes hand in hand with the whole existential arguments. I'll work out what the idea of authenticity is when I understand what existance is better. Until then, I'll just be figuring it out.

There's truth out there, it's just not assembled neatly.

Don't worry Tracy, not all 15 (almost 16) year olds have this problem. Only Jacket fans.  ;)

QuoteI forgive both of you...

;) oh c'monnnnnnnnnn

well i'm twice your age, jenny, and i go through intense periods of trying to figure it out, and then equally intense periods of letting that go so that i can just live and experience.  for me, i'm kind of with tracy.  forgiveness is possibly the most important thing.  if you're able to forgive people, then you're able to get over it and move on.  i don't know how to explain that better, but it took a long time to learn.  

i really think that life is about questions, and rarely about answers.  and you can psyche yourself out way hard if you take it all too seriously.  there's a real knack for being light and letting things go.  and i think that's a constant practise, too.  

yeah.  it's always trying to do the right thing, and also not beating the crap out of yourself when you don't. :)

Quotewell i'm twice your age, jenny, and i go through intense periods of trying to figure it out, and then equally intense periods of letting that go so that i can just live and experience.  for me, i'm kind of with tracy.  forgiveness is possibly the most important thing.  if you're able to forgive people, then you're able to get over it and move on.  i don't know how to explain that better, but it took a long time to learn.  

i really think that life is about questions, and rarely about answers.  and you can psyche yourself out way hard if you take it all too seriously.  there's a real knack for being light and letting things go.  and i think that's a constant practise, too.  

yeah.  it's always trying to do the right thing, and also not beating the crap out of yourself when you don't. :)

i agree basically with all that you say right here.  sometimes if you take life TOO seriously and try too hard to understand everything it'll end up passing you by.  

there's nothing wrong with wondering, pondering, searching.....just enjoy the moments you have here.

Great points.  I think it's not about "what is" or "what should be" or "could have been" it's about "WHAT COULD BE".  You are fifteen and you have already inspired ME with your art and with your words.......on many occasions.  I get the sense almost every day that I'm living in a world that completely "got it wrong"  Then I meet someone like Tracy or read a post like this from you and it has a positive impact on me, and it makes me want to get stronger.  We have to be stronger, we need each other, we need to be fearless, we have to believe.  I think to embrace the things we love is the most important.  We need the free thinkers to have faith because if they lose it, then all hope is surely lost.  I guess I mean to say........be strong Jenny, there is no need to come to terms with the bullshit you are surrounded by, just be true to yourself and grow stronger and more beautiful every day.


Attack With Love.....Jeff Tweedy.

I've been thinking a bunch about this picture lately and about what is going on in it.  I'm so frustrated with religion and the term "God" that I decided that we just need to replace the word "God" with the word "Love" I think that LOVE is something that everyone can understand.  I mean the word "God" seems to spark such a debate amongst cultures, I think Love is much more universal.  It seems to me God would be much more pleased if we just worshiped "Love".  


(http://www.tappingmyownphone.com/huddle.jpg)

QuoteI've been thinking a bunch about this picture lately and about what is going on in it.  I'm so frustrated with religion and the term "God" that I decided that we just need to replace the word "God" with the word "Love" I think that LOVE is something that everyone can understand.  I mean the word "God" seems to spark such a debate amongst cultures, I think Love is much more universal.  It seems to me God would be much more pleased if we just worshiped "Love".  


(http://www.tappingmyownphone.com/huddle.jpg)

brian i think that may be the best post i've ever read anywhere

Quote

QuoteI've been thinking a bunch about this picture lately and about what is going on in it.  I'm so frustrated with religion and the term "God" that I decided that we just need to replace the word "God" with the word "Love" I think that LOVE is something that everyone can understand.  I mean the word "God" seems to spark such a debate amongst cultures, I think Love is much more universal.  It seems to me God would be much more pleased if we just worshiped "Love".  


(http://www.tappingmyownphone.com/huddle.jpg)

brian i think that may be the best post i've ever read anywhere

Your are lovely.  Let's play "I Will Sing You Songs" right now, together.   :-*

This thread (along with a few other things) has inspired me to pursue some volunteer work.  I'm going to go to the Boys and Girls Club one day this week and see if I can be of any help there or another place here along those lines.

By the way, amazing post Brian.

QuoteGreat points.  I think it's not about "what is" or "what should be" or "could have been" it's about "WHAT COULD BE".  You are fifteen and you have already inspired ME with your art and with your words.......on many occasions.  I get the sense almost every day that I'm living in a world that completely "got it wrong"  Then I meet someone like Tracy or read a post like this from you and it has a positive impact on me, and it makes me want to get stronger.  We have to be stronger, we need each other, we need to be fearless, we have to believe.  I think to embrace the things we love is the most important.  We need the free thinkers to have faith because if they lose it, then all hope is surely lost.  I guess I mean to say........be strong Jenny, there is no need to come to terms with the bullshit you are surrounded by, just be true to yourself and grow stronger and more beautiful every day.


Attack With Love.....Jeff Tweedy.

yr the best!

after a night of no-sleep wondering, and tired eyes i have come to the conclusion that it all comes down to the same thing:
capitalism is fucked
but
everyone here rulez.

QuoteDon't worry Tracy, not all 15 (almost 16) year olds have this problem. Only Jacket fans.  ;)

Well, my ONLY concern when I was 15/16 was how was I going to get fucked up (Or con my mom into buying me an 8 track tape). Don't apologize for your pursuit of truth(s) b/c it's quite impressive. I work with "adults" who are not asking the questions you are asking.

Quote

Well, my ONLY concern when I was 15/16 was how was I going to get fucked up (Or con my mom into buying me an 8 track tape). Don't apologize for your pursuit of truth(s) b/c it's quite impressive. I work with "adults" who are not asking the questions you are asking.

teehee, 8 track  8-)

For me ... I try not to think about this kind of stuff and just live right.  I think if people just follow the golden rule things kind of fall into place.  The hardest thing for me has been to not worry about things and trust myself, that I can handle whatever comes at me.  So far, so good.

and thanks for the kind words Brian, I feel the same towards you and
so many others here.

I have been doing a lot of soul work lately, and a couple of things that
have struck me:

Humans are the only animals who try to be something we are not. Imagine
a lion trying to be a chipmunk or a raccoon trying to be a cardinal; doesn't
work. The key is to find your gifts and live them as your soul dictates, not
as society, family, friends, money, etc...dictates. That there is a monumental
task. (and we could talk for days about that thought). However, I feel we
are born with gifts and talents, but from day 1, we begin to lose them to feel
accepted or "normal" or to survive family dysfunction (some of us, not all of us). Frederick Buechner challenges us to find a place where our deepest gladnesss
and the world's hunger meet.

I have learned recently that I should not try to change the world, rather,
I should find where I truly fit, then the world around me will change. Parker
Palmer talks about living an undivided life (ie, a whole life rather than compartmentalized into work self, family self, vacation self, etc...) For me,
this takes a huge amount of patience, love and forgiveness. I am further along
this path than before and I will not reach the end in this lifetime; this is a hard concept for our western society to grasp b/c we are judged by accomplishment
and reward, rather than an inner search for truth. Our society wants results! Now! Produce!
All that has my qi all out of whack...

A couple of books I am reading during this journey (one of the most important
and rewarding times of my life, which is why I am going back to Bear
Butte, South Dakota next week). Please pick one of these up if anything I have
said rings truth.

A Hidden Wholeness: The Journey Toward an Undivided Life- Parker Palmer

Soulcraft: Crossing into the Mysteries of Nature and Psyche- Bill Plotkin

Undiscovered Self- Carl Jung

Touching Peace- Thich Nhat Hahn

Little Book of Peacemaking Circles- Kay Pranis

Peacemaking Circles: From Crime to Community- Barry Stuart, Mark Wedge, Kay Pranis

The Way of Council- Jack Zimmerman, Virginia Coyle

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f296/ycartrob/IMGP2169.jpg)

Great post Tracy! I'll see what I can do about those books.

there's no way of saying this any different, but i love you people so much, and there is nothing nicer than reading a big long thread about love and questioning and figuring out how to be good by passionately kind and generous people.  

this has given me so much to think about, and i happen to be in a time where i'm enjoying thinking about things.  brian, i love what you said about replacing the word god with love, and the weird thing is that i was thinking that the other day.  i was walking around this lovely little town, and this man was wearing a tshirt that had something religious on it, and i remember thinking that we both looked like we were feeling the same (ie kind of ok and content), and i thought that he says jesus, and i say love, and it's all the same thing.

and i'm wearing my my morning jacket t-shirt today.

yeah, jenny, the other thing is that because you're still physically growing, you have a lot of different chemicals running around going crazy and causing your brain to go on overdrive.  i used to sit with the big headphones on in our living room and listen to music that made me cry in order to release some of what i was feeling (melanie, pink floyd, cat stevens, emmylou harris, bob dylan, you get the picture).  i found that really helpful to just get shit out.

ok, fuck it, i still do that.  ;)  i do. seriously.

Quotejust for curiosity's sake,
what do all of you think defines an authentic life? what do you think the most essential points are, in successfully leading an honest, genuine, true life?

Hmmm. My user ID reflects the GREAT RIDDLE about what came before the big bang (and of course, it also relates to an MMJ show).

Recognizing when reason is abandoned is the key.  Far too often people "want" things to be what they are not.  This clouds reason.  When you can regularly see and understand this sort of rationalization in others, and yourself, you can pursue the success you seek.

QuoteI've been thinking a bunch about this picture lately and about what is going on in it.  I'm so frustrated with religion and the term "God" that I decided that we just need to replace the word "God" with the word "Love" I think that LOVE is something that everyone can understand.  I mean the word "God" seems to spark such a debate amongst cultures, I think Love is much more universal.  It seems to me God would be much more pleased if we just worshiped "Love".  


(http://www.tappingmyownphone.com/huddle.jpg)

i couldn't agree more.
thanks for such a beautiful post.

Quoteand thanks for the kind words Brian, I feel the same towards you and
so many others here.

I have been doing a lot of soul work lately, and a couple of things that
have struck me:

Humans are the only animals who try to be something we are not. Imagine
a lion trying to be a chipmunk or a raccoon trying to be a cardinal; doesn't
work. The key is to find your gifts and live them as your soul dictates, not
as society, family, friends, money, etc...dictates. That there is a monumental
task. (and we could talk for days about that thought). However, I feel we
are born with gifts and talents, but from day 1, we begin to lose them to feel
accepted or "normal" or to survive family dysfunction (some of us, not all of us). Frederick Buechner challenges us to find a place where our deepest gladnesss
and the world's hunger meet.

I have learned recently that I should not try to change the world, rather,
I should find where I truly fit, then the world around me will change. Parker
Palmer talks about living an undivided life (ie, a whole life rather than compartmentalized into work self, family self, vacation self, etc...) For me,
this takes a huge amount of patience, love and forgiveness. I am further along
this path than before and I will not reach the end in this lifetime; this is a hard concept for our western society to grasp b/c we are judged by accomplishment
and reward, rather than an inner search for truth. Our society wants results! Now! Produce!
All that has my qi all out of whack...

A couple of books I am reading during this journey (one of the most important
and rewarding times of my life, which is why I am going back to Bear
Butte, South Dakota next week). Please pick one of these up if anything I have
said rings truth.

A Hidden Wholeness: The Journey Toward an Undivided Life- Parker Palmer

Soulcraft: Crossing into the Mysteries of Nature and Psyche- Bill Plotkin

Undiscovered Self- Carl Jung

Touching Peace- Thich Nhat Hahn

Little Book of Peacemaking Circles- Kay Pranis

Peacemaking Circles: From Crime to Community- Barry Stuart, Mark Wedge, Kay Pranis

The Way of Council- Jack Zimmerman, Virginia Coyle

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f296/ycartrob/IMGP2169.jpg)

try "man's search for meaning: an introduction to logotherapy" by Dr. Viktor E. Frankl
this was the best, most complete piece of literature i have read in a long time.  from the voice of a holocaust survivor he reflects on his time during WWII and also afterwards, including a thorough analysis of his experience...

or a hero's journey by joseph campbell. more of an introductory reading, actually. just found it very interesting...

This is a fine example of why I love this board.  Thanks for the reading list to both Face & Tracy, I'm sure I will pick up one or two of the suggestions here.  And, Brian, truly: great post. Reading all of your words makes me realize how much more I need to discover about myself as well as what I'm doing to benefit the world we all share.

Kind of sort of along these lines of pondering living authentically, did you guys see 60 Minutes last night?  One of the stories aired was a repeat about the Moken tribe, a nomadic boat people who live in the seas of Thailand/Burma.  They said that they are the most untouched by modern man.  They are the people who new the tsunami was coming because they're so in touch with their surroundings and consequently were able to flee to higher ground before the waves started.  Anyway, an interesting point to the story is that there are some words/ideas that are not in the Moken vocabulary: Want, Time, Hello/Goodbye.  The reporter was asked to try to take the word "want" out of his vocabulary just to be able to recognize how often it comes up.  It's an interesting perspective.  Turns out I "want" a lot.

Something happened to me recently that helped change the way I look at the world. I was at a local arts festival with my family, and they convinced me to look at an art gallery, consisting mostly of nature pictures. And they were great pictures that must have taken a long time to make, but I never once felt that any of them truly spoke to me beyond what I saw on the canvas. On the way back to the car, we passed by an abandoned building. The wall of the building was covered stickers, most of which were half-torn. But the thing was that every sticker that I saw on that wall had something to say. Some were about global warming, some were anti-war, and some that I may not have agreed with, but they all were for a good cause. And as I passed by that wall I saw more art in it than any of the paintings I had seen in the gallery.

I'm tired of people on the street getting less respect than anyone else. They seem to be more caring than the rest of the world.

QuoteI've been thinking a bunch about this picture lately and about what is going on in it.  I'm so frustrated with religion and the term "God" that I decided that we just need to replace the word "God" with the word "Love" I think that LOVE is something that everyone can understand.  I mean the word "God" seems to spark such a debate amongst cultures, I think Love is much more universal.  It seems to me God would be much more pleased if we just worshiped "Love".  


(http://www.tappingmyownphone.com/huddle.jpg)

The sad thing is I bet Jesus felt the same way...and then people got involved.

someone told me about the "Long Count" of the Mayan calendar counting down to 2012 and it actually got me really depressed and stressed.
They predicted when Katrina and the Tsunami were going to happen. They were considered "minor" cycles while the predicted happenings in 2012 are considered "major".  
I'm not even going to graduate college by the time the world is going to have some major catastrophe.
Earths magnetic field will be reversed.  Supervolcanoes will erupt. Meteors will strike the surface.
I really don't mean to be so morbid. This is just all fucking crazy... :-/

(I didn't want to start a new topic 'cos that'd be sort of depressing, so I just recycled.)

QuoteI'm tired of people on the street getting less respect than anyone else. They seem to be more caring than the rest of the world.

hear, hear.  

face, the change might also be for good...
i find that human beings usually need a catastrophe to help set things right.  otherwise, we don't seem to do much... x

what will happen (whatever it might be) will greatly benefit the earth and the people who break on through to the other side.  the present powers that be will crumble, and the strong survivors will re-shape this planet in to a more caring and humane place.  find your sanctuary now (physical and/or mental), it's bound to be a rough road to get there.  

:) :) :)

"Learn to swim"  MJK