Anyone else feel it? Sports talk here in Nashville has been talking about how the national's past time is starting to become less and less appealing. I grew up an avid fan (I can still name the starting lineup for the Big Red Machine of the mid 70's) but quit watching in the late 90's. Now, I can't even recall who played in the previous year's World Series. and I probably can't name more than 3 players on 1 team.
Anyone else used to be a fan but not anymore? I mean, I cleared Sunday's slate to watch women's soccer, that's how much I couldn't care less about baseball these days.
I agree. Watered down garbage with too many teams. With this you get sub -standard pitching which equal more HR's...etc....just plain sucks and I don't watch it...not to mention ROIDS >:(
Sadly I haven't even watched a game this season.
Buccos are a half game out of 1st place, best record this late since 1992, so shut your god damn fucking mouth, curmudgeon.
Also, there's a baseball thread, maybe you should do a thread search noob!
Quote from: capt. scotty on Jul 18, 2011, 09:13 PM
Buccos are a half game out of 1st place, best record this late since 1992, so shut your god damn fucking mouth, curmudgeon.
Also, there's a baseball thread, maybe you should do a thread search noob!
Thank you for validating my point.
Quote from: TheBigChicken on Jul 18, 2011, 08:17 PM
I agree. Watered down garbage with too many teams. With this you get sub -standard pitching which equal more HR's...etc....just plain sucks and I don't watch it...not to mention ROIDS >:(
almost guarantee players have been roiding up for years and years and years. they got narc'd out and then people were like "what? no way, it's baseball, this is america". they forget these fuckers get millions of dollars to play a game, of course they're going to juice up. their livelihood depends on it now. I want to see MORE roided up players.
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 18, 2011, 09:52 PM
Quote from: capt. scotty on Jul 18, 2011, 09:13 PM
Buccos are a half game out of 1st place, best record this late since 1992, so shut your god damn fucking mouth, curmudgeon.
Also, there's a baseball thread, maybe you should do a thread search noob!
Thank you for validating my point.
No prob, but what they really need is a salary cap and salary minimum, within reasonable distance, maybe $50mill.
I don't agree with this at all! Pitching is at a premium these last couple years, Lee threw 3 consecutive shutouts this season, Justin Verlander has thrown a no hitter this season, Rangers' starters have been lights out the last couple weeks, and as mentioned earlier the Bucs' pitching has got them further than they have been in almost 20 years. Baseball isn't a causual sport; most people that enjoy it are freaks about the game (myself included). It's hard to compare the women's soccer game to a common baseball game. I watched a bunch of the soccer because it was team USA but I don't give two shits about MLS, and just because I watched the women play I wouldn't consider myself a fan instead I was just proud of my country. Baseball is a great game with many hardcore fans just not many fair-weather ones. I loved watching The Open, the World Cup, and the Red Sox game yesterday. I was sad that Phil or Dustin Johnson didn't win, I was sad that the women lost, but come October and the Red Sox make the World Series and lose I will be heartbroken.
Quote from: ophidiophobia on Jul 18, 2011, 10:59 PM
I don't agree with this at all!
I am not asking for people to agree, it's just a fact that MLB is on the decline and has been for a little while now. Attendance is down, TV ratings are down (Red Sox viewership is down 35% this year) they just had the lowest rated all-star game in the history of baseball. From 2000-2009 the crown jewel of MLB, the World Series, averaged a 12.05 rating which only pales in comparison to the 25.51 average rating the fall classic received from 1980-1989 (over a 50% drop).
My question is why do you think this is? Is it b/c there are so many Hispanic players? So few black players? Game is too slow for today's ADHD society? The Rays have a suck ass stadium?
I don't necessarily agree Tracy. I do think the regions of fandom have shifted to some extent. It was only a few years back that MLB set all time attendance and revenue records. Baseball has never been a huge television draw but there still exists a huge, loyal fan base. Unfortunately, I do think that the popularity is waning with each upcoming generation and I don't attribute it to some failure on baseball as much access to more varied forms of entertainment as well as the previously mentioned ADHD culture.
If you are in a big baseball market, it's still a pretty big deal. I think it's rather unfair to compare ratings from the 80s when we had 10 channels then compared to now. Try comparing the average attendance from the 80s to the last couple of years and the numbers tell a different story.
And Ophidophobia, I couldn't agree with you more. The "post" steroid era has been a breath of fresh air. One thing I will contest is the complete myth of "watered down" pitching because of more teams. No one ever contests this fallacy and it is repeated as gospel as so many other sports axioms. 30 years ago, we didn't have Venezuelans, Japanese, South Koreans, etc. playing at a high level as we do now. With that, the number of quality pitchers competing for MLB roster spots has increased at a much greater rate than increase in roster spots as a result of expansion. Secondly, even up through the eighties into the nineties, very few pitchers had command of three pitches and most relied on the 4 seam fastball. Nowadays, everyone has a changeup or splitter as an alternative offspeed pitch to throw against opposite side hitters. Additonally, no one gets away with throwing just a 4 seamer anymore. Everyone's fastball moves, either 2 seam tailers or cutter/sliders, all with an increase in average velocity across the board.
Yes Tracy, it's the Trops fault. Baseball is fading, old dudes like myself still watch, but ask a 14 year-old to name 5 baseball players, then ask him to name 5 x-game folks and see who wins. I think that there are a million reasons, but all sports fade. At the turn of the last century boxing and horse racing were the preeminate sports in this country - both might be gone in 50 years. Everything about baseball is looooooong. The game, the season, the time between pitches and that's just not where were at as a society
Yankees attendence during 1930s.
15,185
11,773
12,337
9,579
11,100
8,826
12,605
12,715
12,368
11,313
Yankees attendance during 50s.
26,857
25,326
21,165
20,368
19,034
19,352
19,374
19,443
18,431
20,026
20,998
Yankess 2000-2010
37,956
40,807
42,736
42,785
47,788
50,499
51,858
52,739
53,069
45,918
I don't know, I thought last season was one of the best ever. 8)
Baseball isn't a sport that's well suited for Red Zone style streaming stats and highlights, and that's how "we" consume sports today. NL-style, pitching dominant, grinder games are especially a turn-off to the casual fan, but I love them. And in the right hands, no sport is better suited for a radio call.
Chicago Cubs attendance during 1950s.
15,142
11,541
13,224
9,854
9,717
11,374
9,173
8,598
12,726
11,074
Cubs 70's
20,280
20,407
16,656
16,791
12,536
12,776
12,669
17,776
18,831
20,353
Cubs 2000-2010
34,438
35,196
33,248
37,032
39,138
38,753
39,040
40,153
40,743
39,610
As you can see, no one goes to games anymore eh?
And so the attendance figures are not just from Chicago and New York, lets say we look at the mighty Pirates.
During the 40's
6,597
6,263
6,107
6,477
7,899
7,853
9,740
16,669
19,702
18,824
70's
8,532
18,419
16,295
13,711
15,777
12,666
15,276
11,976
17,722
2000-10
30,834
23,148
20,983
21,107
23,003
23,269
22,141
20,113
19,479
I've watched almost every single Nationals game this year. With the NBA lockout in full effect and the NFL having tough labor negotiations I can see some resentment from fans. Let it be noted that the CBA for Major League Baseball ends December 11th yet there has been no talk of a lockout. Plans are to have the new agreement in place by the World Series. I'm not saying baseball could reclaim it's spot at the top but the 1994 Lockout killed the MLB. The steroid era is over and the labor negotiations are going smoothly I can see MLB poised for a climb in popularity again. With there being a bunch of young talent starting to dominate the MLB:
- Starlin Castro
- Michael Pineda
- Danny Espinosa
- Bryce Harper (soon enough)
- Andrew McCutcheon
- Hunter Pence
I can see if being easy for a younger generation to become attached in some way to a team/player. I know it's been easier to watch Nationals' games not only for their competitveness in games but also the youth of the team (average age 28.4) and also the youth of most clubs that are now becoming threats to the older powers (Pittsburgh (27.6), Cleveland (27.2) and Tampa (27.8). Not saying it's guaranteed or even plausible that the NFL loses it's throne but I can definitely see MLB's popularity rising in the coming years. Or at least I can hope.
Go Nats!
Quote from: mike on Jul 19, 2011, 11:14 AM
And so the attendance figures are not just from Chicago and New York, lets say we look at the mighty Pirates.
I don't think people buying a ticket and a hot dog are paying $50,000,000 contracts or whatever the hell these guys make now... For me, I've always found baseball painfully boring. That said I hit up a few Nashville Sounds games a year on thirsty Thursday. :beer:
I think two of the largest problems that baseball struggles with to attract new fans are translating the live game to TV and the pace of play. When I sat down to watch a game on TV it's hard for me to stay interested for the typical 3-3.5 hours it takes for an average game. But when I'm at a baseball game there are so many things for everybody to do. Most stadiums that I've been to have playplaces for young ones, numerous pubs/bars for dad and/or mom. Baseball's pace of play has a hard time converting the live game to the television. Also, the time of a game is so long compared to other sports. Sunday night Boston beat Tampa 1-0 in 16 innings and the game time was over 5 and a half hours. Compared to a football game or a basketball game there is too much in-between time between pitches and innings. Football on TV is similar to baseball as far as time goes, but the pace of a football game is lots faster. The sports saying "speed kills" applies to the problem baseball faces; basketball and football blow right by it in terms of speed of play.
Speed of the game defense may no longer be valid
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/NFL-games-are-about-to-get-longer-and-more-repla?urn=nfl-wp3507 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/NFL-games-are-about-to-get-longer-and-more-repla?urn=nfl-wp3507)
(http://www.abload.de/img/2spna.gif)
Kenny Powers Workout on Steroids.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fulijACh84Y#)
I personally don't like baseball anymore and I was a HUGE fan growing up in the 70s. My sports hero is still Reggie Jackson and I feel the game is just not the same. New teams, new divisions, new stages of the playoffs, its just been overly monetized in my opinion. Drugs and corruption have ruined my perception of MLB and also tearing down Yankee stadium was too much for me to handle. Can't watch it anymore, just don't care.
You never go to a rock concert and leave thinking...my band lost. I choose to put my energy into something less disappointing.
Quote from: CTdeadhead on Jul 19, 2011, 05:46 PM
You never go to a rock concert and leave thinking...my band lost. I choose to put my energy into something less disappointing.
nice
Well the Braves are doing pretty good and they are pitching almost as good as with greg maddux, glavin, and smoltz so baseball hasnt really lost it's appeal to me
The Jays attendance is on the rise, although still around half of the 4 million they used to draw in the mid '90s. Television ratings are really really impressive; they've always had good ratings, partly because they are Canada's team and a have a strong and loyal overall fanbase. Radio numbers are excellent too and their games are carried across the country.
As for the demise of MLB, there have been some news features lately regarding the lack (and worrying downward trend) of African Americans interested and/or playing the sport at a grass roots level. However, baseball remains huge in other countries such as Japan and several South American regions. If MLB is declining somewhat in the US, baseball as a sport is strong as ever.
The summer and fall diversion that television offers nowdays no doubt has an effect on the ratings of any given team. So does video games and the computer. One thing worth noting is that tabulating TV numbers is not an exact science. Also, it's tough to tabulate radio numbers too. If sports bars are not on the decline, and they are not, then you can bet baseball games are being watched by vast numbers on a daily/nightly basis, but it's impossible to calculate or prove it.
My point about TV ratings is that The World Series has lost half its viewers since the 80's but the Super Bowl has stayed about the same.
On a side note, I heard the women's World Cup final on Sunday set the record for most tweets per second regarding a sporting event. Pretty impressive.
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 20, 2011, 09:23 AM
My point about TV ratings is that The World Series has lost half its viewers since the 80's but the Super Bowl has stayed about the same.
On a side note, I heard the women's World Cup final on Sunday set the record for most tweets per second regarding a sporting event. Pretty impressive.
However, tweet is a new communication gadget and Japan is wired in like nobody's business. Still, the overall quality and coverage of the WWC was impressive.
The Super Bowl is a one-day event (with a torturous week build-up of dismal hype). It's hard to defend the numbers regarding the World Series. ADD culture doesn't help ratings either.
Why do people refer to Toronto as a "small market"? It's got to be one of the biggest markets in the hemisphere and is owned by people who can print money. Their lack of competitiveness over the last 15 years is without excuse.
Quote from: CTdeadhead on Jul 19, 2011, 05:46 PM
I personally don't like baseball anymore and I was a HUGE fan growing up in the 70s. My sports hero is still Reggie Jackson and I feel the game is just not the same. New teams, new divisions, new stages of the playoffs, its just been overly monetized in my opinion. Drugs and corruption have ruined my perception of MLB and also tearing down Yankee stadium was too much for me to handle. Can't watch it anymore, just don't care.
You never go to a rock concert and leave thinking...my band lost. I choose to put my energy into something less disappointing.
I've been pretty disappointed leaving some concerts I've seen over the years.Maybe not to the point of the Yankees losing a World Series, but having spent some serious $, and looking forward to the show,only to see a band on an off night or tour can be pretty damn disapponting,imo.
Never the less, I can certainly see where you or anyone else can be turned off by the state of Major League Baseball today.
I wish they would stop chasing all the tv dollars, and give us one or two daytime World Series games every year. It'd be a great way to grab kids attention, and get them interested in the game at a young age like it did for me, and so many others.
Quote from: bowl of soup on Jul 20, 2011, 12:03 PM
Why do people refer to Toronto as a "small market"? It's got to be one of the biggest markets in the hemisphere and is owned by people who can print money. Their lack of competitiveness over the last 15 years is without excuse.
It drives me nuts. Some, but not all, sports media in the US think Toronto is a small market. However, the area is the 4th largest in NA, not including Mexico City. Actually, the Greater Toronto Area has a population base of over 8 million and "Hog Town" is considered the biggest NHL market in the world. The Raptors are also Top 10 in attendance year after year.
I disagree somewhat (with a respectful *) with the amount of years the Jays haven't been competetive since there's always a dollar issue (also with the Raptors). The Jays and Raptors are paid in US dollars, so when the CDN dollar was 65-75 cents compared to the US, it was difficult to go after free agents and/or keep more than a couple of stars on a team. And when it comes to the Raptors, it has been a real challenge to recruit US players simply because we don't have ESPN (on basic cable) and are seen as a cold climate. But our climate is nearly identical to Chicago and Detroit, similar to NYC and Boston and much warmer than Minnesota. Fame in the US is also related (see that fucker Bosh and Wince Carter).
On a related note, until they got their current and very very good GM, Alex Anthopoulos, the Jays haven't had a quality boss since Pat Gillick. But the ship has righted itself and few now, including the US sports pontificators, think it'll be long before the Jays make a serious playoff run. Many think it'll be next year. I agree. They need to add just a few missing pieces... and a fucking closer would be the first place to start. Over 15 blown saves so far!
(http://blog.juggle.com/files/2010/06/bud-selig.jpg)
"Whaat? You want MORE teams in the playoffs???"
Quote from: CTdeadhead on Jul 19, 2011, 05:46 PM
I personally don't like baseball anymore and I was a HUGE fan growing up in the 70s. My sports hero is still Reggie Jackson and I feel the game is just not the same. New teams, new divisions, new stages of the playoffs, its just been overly monetized in my opinion. Drugs and corruption have ruined my perception of MLB and also tearing down Yankee stadium was too much for me to handle. Can't watch it anymore, just don't care.
You never go to a rock concert and leave thinking...my band lost. I choose to put my energy into something less disappointing.
Totally agree to a point. I am a Florida Marlins fans so disappointing is our middle name. I know we have 2 WS Championships and I am so grateful for going to both of those but I would just like some consistency. Music doesn't make me angry like sports especially baseball. I know to some it is boring and is on a decline ratings wise but I still love it and I still watch and go to a bunch of games. Next time a Marlin game is on look close you might see me, I am one of the 100 or so people there. ;D
Mike Stanton is a Beast though and so is Josh Johnson as soon as he gets of the DL.
I love baseball. In fact I am watching my STL Cardinals right now. I have watched, attended or listened to all but about 25 games since I started in 1989. Up until this season MLB enjoyed more popularity than ever. I come from St. Louis and live in Louisville. STL was the highest rated market for the world series and all-star game the past few seasons. Baseball is just what sports fans follow there, and it is not a large market.
The Pirates just started winning and people came out. They sold out something like 8 of their past 12 games.
I am actually surprised how little the recession has diminished attendance at MLB games.
For those bemoaning steroids and poor pitching, obviously you gave up years ago because pitching is back. I prefer a 2-1 pitchers duel to a blowout any day. The only thing that still spoils the game is commercialism. Big money and, literally, TV commercials slow the game down. But come on, the game is far more complex strategically than soccer, basketball or hockey. It has moments of great athleticism, but it offers much more in strategy, history and life lessons about determination, consistency, hard work and balance.
I do agree that our ADHD culture can't appreciate baseball. But there are a lot more important issues facing out society that are also diminished by ignorance and disaffection. dare I reference our current political state???
Anyway, if you quit baseball years ago, give it another look. Were I commissioner I would change a lot of things, but I much prefer MLB to the NFL or NBA. I mean, you want to talk about a sport that fans can't afford look at the NBA and you want to talk steroids, look no further than the NFL. I love how the NFL gets a free pass on that issue but baseball gets beaten up because it still aims for some measure of integrity.