My Morning Jacket

"My Morning Jacket arrives as promising band with new albums"
By CLAY MASTERS / Daily Nebraskan
November 29, 2004

...My Morning Jacket has gone through great changes over the years. They've had three drummers and their original lead guitarist and keyboardist left the band last year. But this doesn't worry James.

"I'm very excited about this current lineup," James said. "I feel this is the most capable band we've ever had and we're all getting along really well."

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So do you folks agree with Jim that that the current line-up is the most "capable" incarnation of the Jacket?  I know that Danny learned to play the keys just to be in the band.  And I've heard that Carl's got quite a resume as compared to Johnny, but...

A few things strike me about this quote...

First, it helps Bo and Carl's case for being in the band now, which has always been iffy considering that in the bio it still says that they're just "joining them on the road" and they're not listed under "band members" in the contact tab.

Second, it sounds a lot like the quotes I heard when Patrick joined the band.  I think Jim used to say that he anticipated that Danny/Jim/Johnny/Patrick/Tommy was probably going to be considered the band's "Classic Line-up."  It sounds more hollow this time.  I hate to say it, but my gut tells me we're going to see more line-up changes before this is all said and done.  Especially with the low-level of commitment to Bo and Carl.  

By the way, I don't remember much fuss around the departure of J. Glenn or Chris - is that just because it was a different time in the band's career or were they not very "capable" drummers?  I'm just wondering - I thought they were both great - actually Chris is my favorite of the three, but I'm not much of a "technical" aficionado, if you know what I mean.  

Third, the quote could be taken to suggest that the band was fighting before Danny and Johnny left, which, I guess has always been hinted at; Danny practically said as much in Velocity:

"I don't think it was much of a surprise," Cash said. "When you tour with somebody and you spend 24 hours a day next to them for years on end it gets rough after a while. It could be Santa Claus but you end up hating them after a while." http://www.velocityweekly.com/2004/0128/sound/music.html

But what I'm wondering now is if they were fighting about this being "capable" thing.  Is that why all the line up changes?  The constant touring?  Perfectionism?  Might make it difficult to have a band of friends and a band of "capable" musicians.  

I'm pretty sure that J. Glenn left on his own accord, but I think that Chris got the boot.  Now I read the good-bye letters and all that, but I have to wonder: Did Johnny and Danny get axed?  What do you folks think?  

And might the ax fall again?  And on whom?  

Which leads to my last question: From a technical point of view, how good would you say Tommy is as a bassist?  

Ah, my conspiracy theories have culminated at last.  Don't worry, Tommy!  I hear Kopilot is hiring!    

I really think that Tommy and Patrick are fixtures unless something fucked up happens.  I couldn't really imagine anybody any better than those two, I think there both very talented, especially Patrick.  I think Bo is great I'm guessing he wrote the keyboard part to It beats For You, which is really cool.  As far as Carl, who knows?  I'm not really sure how good he is yet.  I do think MMJ is one awesome as hell lead guitarist away from being legendary Taking nothing away from Jim, because he is already an awesome as hell lead guitarist.  I'm just imaging some 15 min. long three pronged guitar freakout attacks.  

If you're right, then something in my heart wants that awesome as Hell guitarist to be from Louisville and not another "friend of a friend."  

There's got to be a hundred kids from Louisville dying to play in the Jacket, who know the songs and would rock their asses off on stage.  

I'm bored with "professionalism."  Harvest the roots.  Gimme that Dirty 'ol Jacket from those fuzzed-out four tracks on Learning and Sandworm over Memphis horns by Stax session musicians anyday.      

Hmmmm....how to respond.  :-/

First off, I don't think anyone has been "booted" out.  From all appearances, everyone left of their own accord for other opportunities.  Surely anyone can understand how constant touring can wear on people;  not just the group of people, but the people themselves.  Not everyone is geared towards 300+ dates per year-that even SOUNDS exhausting.

Secondly, like all other bands, the Jacket has and will evolve.  Not everyone is AC/DC and sticks with one formula for thirty years.  As a fan, I have watched it evolve from just about day one five years ago, and it surely has evolved-the sound, the polish, the stage antics, the biscotti being thrown on the crowd...and I have really enjoyed it watching them over the years become the fine unit that they are, capable of just about anything.

I also believe that Patrick and Tommy are permanent fixtures.  Bo and Carl most likely will be too-just hear the eerily sounding harmony with Jim during the past tour, who is going to let that go?  I think this is the "classic" lineup, just like the previous lineup was "classic"...meaning they hit a stride of near sonic perfection.  Hell, all of the lineups are "classic" as I can't recall too many bad shows at all-a feat most bands can't pull off.

As for ditching the horns and going back to the fuzzy four track days, one could argue that the parallel between GBV and MMJ is apparent;  nobody killed GBV faster than Pollard's drinking and the critics who booed every record he spat out that wasn't Bee Thousand or Alien Lanes.  To that I say ballyhoo.  No one can expect any band to carbon copy what some call their "best" work, tweak it just a bit to sound "different"-everyone will say that they are "repetitive".  Only the artist knows what's best, it is their creation.  Even Neil Young's most panned record Trans was an artistic vision-it just wasn't rec'vd well by critics or fans (it's not Harvest!  how dare he!)  

I firmly believe that.  The artist knows what his/her vision is and the hell with the critics and naysayers that just want regurgitated retreads of past glory.  Ultimately, it's a fine line between repetition and reinvention...so far, I can't see any repetition, just reinvention with the Jacket;  each record is uniquely its own being.  Sure, there's similarities with each (it IS rock based music), but that's like saying rye bread is the same as pizza dough since it's all made of flour...each record is a statement, a time capsule of the artists' fears, loves, and motivations at the time.  To attempt to recreate those exact emotions is artistic suicide.

Just my two cents.  Let's just see what the new record has in store for us.  After the EP's and albums, it is a strong catalog to follow, but somehow I think Jim and co. will deliver, just as they always have and will.

QuoteI'm bored with "professionalism."  Harvest the roots.  Gimme that Dirty 'ol Jacket from those fuzzed-out four tracks on Learning and Sandworm over Memphis horns by Stax session musicians anyday.      

Well, I definitely agree on that. I still tend to hold on to that romantic idea of a band being a group of friends and no one is replacable, so I get your drift. "we're all getting along really well" sounds a little like "we hired them because they're good musicians and I'm happy to say they appear not to be assholes" and that's not really the 'all for one, one for all'-idea anymore, is it?

On the other hand, MMJ is Jim. The Early recordings discs show that once more. It's his baby. He can release 'Chocolate and Ice' that he played all by himself with no other band members (except for 'It's been a great three or four years', ofcourse) and no one complains. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Sure, there are bands where all the members contribute songs and they're all equally good, but there are also bands that sound crap every once in a while because some band member wrote a crap song that he wanted to sing and it was accepted because of 'band democracy'. I mean, I don't think anybody would have been heartbroken if Ringo Stars' songs wouldn't have been in The Beatles' repertoire. And then there are bands like Bright Eyes, where it's just that one guy that you either like or hate, but nobody gives a damn about who is playing the bass this time. So... I don't know. Only time will tell if Johnny will be missed on the next disc and only, err, his girlfriend can tell if Jim's an asshole for firing them. :)

Like I said, everyone left of their own accord, so no one is an asshole for firing anyone, as far as I can tell.  Wow, you guys get hung up on the weirdest things...isn't this like totally old news?  It happened the way it happened.  I feel some deju vu here, didn't we argue this into the ground a YEAR ago?

Oh, I'm not hung up at all and that firing-part was just a joke. I was just blattering about the nature of bands and such. I did make some interesting points, now, didn't I?  ;)

I tend to agree with Mr.Conaway.Don't think anyone was fired.It is a very demanding lifestyle choice to live on the road as a musician.Especially if you have family and other obligations to worry about.I truly believe Johnny and Danny were just worn out from the life on the road.Just from playing in weekend bar bands I know even that little bit  of playing can were thin,from having to find time to practice and shuffle work schedules.Even small cover bands have personality troubles from time to time.I stopped playing because I wanted to remain friends with the rest of the guys in the band.So I can relate,if ever so small with Danny and Johnny choices.And I hope Bo and Carl remain with the band.Anyone who has saw them in concert truly knows how talented they really are,and will make great contributions to Jim's vision.

A few things.

QuoteI don't think anybody would have been heartbroken if Ringo Stars' songs wouldn't have been in The Beatles' repertoire

I would have.  I love Ringo's songs.  

To say that you'd like MMJ to get back to their roots, recording four tracks in the basement (maybe that's where he snoozed in the cobwebs?) is like telling someone you don't want them to grow.  Everybody starts in the basement.  Then they get a little money, and try some stuff out, then they get a little more money, and they've evolved as musicians, and try some more stuff out, and so on and so on, and then (if they stick around long enough) they have the awkward years (Dylan, The Stones, Merle Haggard, Emmylou) and then they usually come back in full force, using all of their years of music, and create something better than you ever thought.

If Radiohead stayed the same, we wouldn't have OK Computer, and man, did I ever fight it when I heard they were coming up with a new sound.  And despite where they are now, when U2 came out with Achtung Baby, I loved it, and was glad.  Nobody wanted Dylan to pick up an electric guitar.  

People have to be able to grow in order to get better.  And as fans, we have to allow the fact that there may be a couple of "mistake" albums (NOT now there aren't, but there might be, in the future, who knows, it's possible) and we'll just have to trust that one mistake doesn't mean they suck.  

On a lighter note, if the new(er) guys are going to stay with the band, they need rock star names like Two-Tone Tommy and Jim James.  Any suggestions?

QuoteOn a lighter note, if the new(er) guys are going to stay with the band, they need rock star names like Two-Tone Tommy and Jim James.  Any suggestions?

well, Carl's obvious choice is "carl hungus" and he must use the Big Lebowski costume like this one:

(http://www.mymorningjacket.com/Gallery/2004/lebowskifest061804-03.jpg)

and as for bo:

(http://www.mymorningjacket.com/Gallery/2004/biglebowski061804-04.jpg)

 8)

is that a bike helmet :D?  well I think I have heard these guys live together enough to say that they cover the trail blazed by the original line up just fine.  the next cd will show us all just how faithful the group remains to the MMJ model established thus far.  I am not too worried about further lineup changes as they seemed very happy together on the road, but we aren't fortune tellers are we (or are we  ???)...

Quote

As a fan, I have watched it evolve from just about day one five years ago, and it surely has evolved-the sound, the polish, the stage antics, the biscotti being thrown on the crowd...and I have really enjoyed it watching them over the years become the fine unit that they are, capable of just about anything.

As for ditching the horns and going back to the fuzzy four track days...To that I say ballyhoo.  No one can expect any band to carbon copy what some call their "best" work, tweak it just a bit to sound "different"-everyone will say that they are "repetitive"... 

Hey, I was right there with you five years ago, when nobody came to the shows and just me and a couple of friends were up front, stompin' around and raisin' hell.  So I've got a little bit of fan cred myself.

And who said anything about going back?  I loved Chocolate and Ice, for example.  The material was very fresh - really different from anything they'd done before - but the sound had that same dark and earthy authenticity of the older stuff.  

Look, I just happen to like the straightforwardness that I hear in simple recordings.  And I think the music itself is very seperate from the way it is produced.  You don't have to regurgitate the music - and if you need any more proof of that just look at all of the variety that Learning and Sandworm offer.  

But come on, you just can't deny the warmth of those old Library of Congress recordings of blues musicians from the tens and twenties.  That's the Jacket sound to me.  And I think the band was with me on that - why else would they pride themselves on recording in a fricking barn?  

And you can make all the comparisons you want with other bands, it really doesn't matter - there's always going to be some band - look, the Mountain Goats recorded every album they did on the same crapped out tape player - so it can be done, but what I'm talking about is an ethic.  

I happen to think that overproduction and novelties like Memphis horns come off as cheesy, if not ostentatious - I mean, last time I checked the Jacket didn't have a horn section (though I have to admit that I was hoping that the Max Weinberg 7 were going to jump in when they went on Conan).  

And you can say whatever you want about other bands; and this especially goes out to EC...come on Radiohead? U2?  If I thought that the Jacket was ever going to sound like those bands I'd stop listening now.  

Actually, I think Radiohead is great example of what I'm talking about.  Lots of people slobber over Radiohead, but I think that they sound WAY too over-produced and that kills it for me. Two minutes of it and I want to rip the radio out of the car.  OK Computer sounds like it was recorded in a hermetically sealed bubble by a pale boy with no immune system.  It's like the soundtrack to cyrogenic sleep.      

I feel like there's a certain darkness that wraps itself around every corner of The Tennessee Fire and Jim holds his voice up like a candle in it.  At times the darkness is so thick its hard to breathe.  And you're not sure he's going to find his way out.  And that's the charm.  I think production is just another word for squeezing out all the darkness.

tHE DARk

trapped in gasoline, a lizard on a string, no one ever screams any more. its called THE DARK. its not a sunny day for the dark. let in the dark, then you you can sleep and fuck and park. let in the dark, it's not another day for the dark. let in the dark, then you can sleep and move and park. so tight, i can't breathe, gods fingers chokin me, like a prisoner on his knees, beggin won't do a thing for me so c'mon (you can't fight it) people, oh they're my thing these days, they like to swim, and catch them rays. MONEY, dont do a thing for me, im happy now, thats how i be.

it's called the dark.

And how am I ever going to get to 2000+ posts if I keep making them so long?  :)

I need to start breaking my thoughts up into like 50 posts so I can keep up with you manics. ;D

Hey now, if my band ever had a chance to record with the Memphis Horns I would do it in a heartbeat! NO matter how cheesy it would look!!! ;D When did the Memphis Horns become cheesy anyway. Saying it's ostentatious comes across as ostentatious ;) I don't think ISM is overproduced at all, sure they could have given it the same feel as TTF but why do that? I think they just wanna try everything they think is interesting to do. You like it or you don't, ofcourse that's up to you but saying they're ostentatious is just, just, just a TOO damn difficult word to use :P

Yeah, Sal, maybe I am getting a little too big for my britches.  8)  And got a little off on a tangent while I was at it.

The original point was not about overproduction vs. fuzziness or any of that - the point was about working with "capable" musicians, which is why I brought up the Stax session musicians - so, returning to O's point: Do you agree that the the Jacket is just Jim? If you can just hire a lead guitarist or a piano player, what kind of a "band" are you? Do these other guys have a stake or are they ultimately just session musicians for the main man?

I say: Long live the Winter Death Club!  Dirt One Forever!
  

I meant that MMJ started with Jim and still mainly evolves around Jim. His voice and his songs are the trademark, not Patrick's drums. With all respect, ofcourse. I'm not saying if I think that's right or wrong, it's just how it is and that's why he can release 'Chocolate and Ice' without fans having troube with the fact that Tommy's not on it. And I know a lot of, there we go again, U2-fans ( :P) wouldn't like it if U2 would release an album without The Edge and with another guitar player instead.

No one can deny Jim is the heart of the band, it's pretty obvious. But, I think if Patrick and Tommy would leave now, the band as we know it would fall apart. I really hope they're gonna stick around for a long long time. Bo and Carl are pretty new and if they decide to leave it wouldn't hurt as much. NOt that I would want them too cause they do a great job right now. Anyway, Spoon, I hear what you're saying but there's more to being in a band than just being able to play your instrument and I really don't think the last changes happened because they were easily replaceable. It happened and was dealt with in the best way possible I guess. Sure, it would have been cool if it was another longtime friend from some barn (jk ;) ) in Louisville but that's easier said than done. If it takes a friend of a friend to keep rockin like they do, so be it.

dear spoon,

there is this crazy thing that happens as the years go by...  people grow up - they change - they move forward - they evolve.

clearly this is a concept that has escaped you.  

how sad for you that you live in a world of five years ago.  and how pathetic that you can't forgive these guys who you don't even seem to know for moving on with their own lives and music.

if you love winter death club so much what do you have against tommy?  he was in that band.  did he sleep with your girlfriend or something?  kopilot is hiring?  you're an asshole.

QuoteOK Computer sounds like it was recorded in a hermetically sealed bubble by a pale boy with no immune system.  It's like the soundtrack to cyrogenic sleep.

That's very funny.  And yet I disagree.

Yes Radiohead, and yes U2 (the record I was specifically referring to was Achtung Baby, and yes I liked it.)

And as far as the darkness (not the band, I'm speaking about actual darkness)- maybe they didn't feel like being dark anymore.  Maybe they felt like including a bit of summer into their work.  (Just to continue that metaphor.)

It is my opinion that the only person who can get away with solid dark and angst (well into his forties) is Morrissey.  But he mixes is up, too.  I mean, you know, in varying degrees.

And as far as the band's changing of hats, well, you have to figure that new musicians bring new feel to the band.  If they were cookie-cutter players who mastered the songs EXACTLY the same as the old guys, then I doubt they would be interesting enough to play with this band.

If you don't like the "produced" sound, that's cool.  I'm just saying that a lot of bands tend to move in that direction, and I think it's partly from curiosity of all the cool stuff they can get to do.  So OK Computer doesn't do it for you.  

Editing, mixing, mastering world is an artform in and of itself.  I happen to agree with you that generally I prefer a feel that is more homegrown, but that's usually because the more produced stuff sucks and is less honest.  People rely on post production to "fix" mistakes, as opposed to using it to enhance their work.  If the band is artful, musical craftsmen, then, like Radiohead (yes, Radiohead, Radiohead, Radiohead), I can dig it.

I don't know if this "darkness" is necessarily the essence of the band, though I definitely understand what is meant by it. I think any band's ethic or essence or what have you is the creative embodiment or expression of their experiences and their emotions.  As has been oft repeated, with time, those experiences/emotions change and thus the tone of the creative output changes.

I listen to "It's About Twilight Now" and "I Will Sing You Songs" -- better yet, "I Will Be There When You Die" and "I Will Sing You Songs" -- and I hear the same ethic/tone but completely different sounds. I don't think that the essence of MMJ's sound is some darkness -- rather it is an honesty of the conveyance of emotion and a significance of that emotion, an essence lacking in so much of popular music.

Ultimately, to argue the techniques or effects of the music's production seems silly to me, and ignorant of the larger creative effort of a band. To declare that such music is somehow not genuine because attempts are made (through mixing, mastering, overdubbing, added musicians, what have you) to clarify that emotional conveyance is, I think, naive and snobbish. Even worse, however, is to limit one's acceptance of a band's creative vision to one's own personal music tastes -- to demand their output always be melancholic and dark, for example, because that is what you enjoy.

Sure, you may not care for such "overproduction" in the music of a band like Radiohead -- maybe it doesn't fit your groove, your concept of pure, in-the-moment music. But hopefully you can understand why they are doing it -- to clarify the honesty and efficacy of their creative output. And the fact that MMJ seems to feel a similar desire in their latest work -- the fact that they feel a similar need to clarify and perfect their creative vision -- should be a reason to commend them, and not detract.

QuoteUltimately, to argue the techniques or effects of the music's production seems silly to me, and ignorant of the larger creative effort of a band. To declare that such music is somehow not genuine because attempts are made (through mixing, mastering, overdubbing, added musicians, what have you) to clarify that emotional conveyance is, I think, naive and snobbish

ding ding ding!  we have a winner!  my sentiments exactly, thank you for the marvelous post.  is this going to turn into lo-fi vs. hi-fi?

QuoteLike I said, everyone left of their own accord, so no one is an asshole for firing anyone, as far as I can tell.

I'm fairly certain the first two drummers were uninvited. I know one of them was.

Quote

I'm fairly certain the first two drummers were uninvited. I know one of them was.

okay...I give up.  speculation into the private lives of folks is just not cool.  whatever.  believe Jim is a pirate captain who runs his ship like Hornblower and fires members at will, or has them walk the plank, or whatever the fantasy is at the moment.  christ!  this shit happened a long time ago.

and as for "knowing", if you do "know", I can safely bet you're full of shit.  there, I said it.

Damn, you guys think too much.

John said pirates.  arrrrrrrrr.

And Boar, what a terrific, well-written post that was.  Applause to you.

QuoteEven worse, however, is to limit one's acceptance of a band's creative vision to one's own personal music tastes -- to demand their output always be melancholic and dark, for example, because that is what you enjoy.

I think everyone does that in a way. I wouldn't, however, put it that harsh. It's simply a fact that when you like a band because of what they do and then they're doing something completely different that you might think 'hmm, this sucks'. Ofcourse! As for me, yes, I still like the old lo-fi stuff a little bit better then ISM. Not because I think it's necessarily purer, just because I like the lo-fi sound, the cracks, just that sound. Because it pleases my ears. Now, I happen to also really really like ISM and I totally understand that bands grow, so hey, that's cool. Their sound changed, but the essence - Jims voice, the songs, the type of lyrics, a certain feel - remained the same, so I accept and appreciate the changes. However, if the next MMJ sound would be an instrumental hardcore techno album, fuck it, then this is not my band anymore. Now what's wrong with that?

Let me say it once again, for me, the reason because I like lo-fi is not ethical, but esthetical. If that's correct English. :) Don't ask me why, but I just love that sound more than I love a more polished sound. I like it when you hear a song recorded on a tape recorder and you can hear the record/stop-sounds. I like hearing those noises in the beginning of 'I will be there...' Maybe in a way I somehow feel that that's more honest, but in the end that's crap, I just like it because I like it.  :)

Word, O.  (Really good English, too - but it's "aesthetic."  I don't know why that a is there.)

I think some of us do like the lo-fi sound because it seems more authentic.  hisses, pops, and crackles are good noises. My brother says he wants to start his band's next cd with the sound of a needle dropping on a record.

But I also REALLY like the horns on ISM.  

I believe Jim is the brains of the band - he tells it where it's going.  The other guys are the body - they keep it going.  As members of the band change, so will the sound - I think all 3 drummers had very distinct styles, all of which I like, and Carl and Bo have brought new styles to the band as well. But as long as Jim is at the helm, MMJ will have the same core sound and will be the same band.

Of course, we'll see how this plays out with the new album - Carl Hungus is a songwriter, right?  Maybe he'll contribute some tunes, or maybe he likes the direction the band is going in and will let Jim keep control.

I don't know.  It's only rock and roll.  (But I like it.)

(Yes I do!)

Quote Ultimately, it's a fine line between repetition and reinvention...so far, I can't see any repetition, just reinvention with the Jacket;  each record is uniquely its own being.

Completely agree JC, and I think thats one of the bands most important assets. Line-up changes, sounds changes.  I think that's the way it should be.
Progression.

Word.

Quotedear spoon,

there is this crazy thing that happens as the years go by...  people grow up - they change - they move forward - they evolve.

clearly this is a concept that has escaped you.  

how sad for you that you live in a world of five years ago.  and how pathetic that you can't forgive these guys who you don't even seem to know for moving on with their own lives and music.

if you love winter death club so much what do you have against tommy?  he was in that band.  did he sleep with your girlfriend or something?  kopilot is hiring?  you're an asshole.

I'm pretty surprised nobody commented on this guy. Or gal, ofcourse. He/she talks almost like an insider. This wasn't Jim in some pissed off mood, was he? Hmm...

Oh, and EC, I forgot to respond, mainly because I was a little, err, flabbergasted. :)

You honestly love Ringo's songs?  ???

Well. Then I have little left to say.  ;D ;)

May I start working towards a conclusion for this topic that would be something like 'Hey, it's all good!', or should we wait a little longer?  :)

Man this is an interesting post, in which I like to share my humble opinion.

I can't make any judgement on Bo or Carl because I don't had the chance (yet) to hear, see or met them.

But this is what I know.

The Jacket was and still is a great group with some very original ideas.  Fact is, Jim's the masterbrain in this group.  He's a great songwriter and guitarist.  But a band is nothing without a good back-up. If jim's the brain, patrick and tommy are definitely the lungs of the group.  I don't have a metaphore for Carl and Bo (yet) for the reason I mentionned above. But maybe we can refer to them as the feet of the group.  They just joined in and they have new ideas and a new style of playing, so... maybe they can take the group to new horizons.

Frankly I believe that there will be other line-up changes, but the only thing that counts for the jacket is the music.  And that's why I have good faith if changes occur.


Rock on.

If you hate the horns does that mean you also hate "Ring of Fire?" a little brass never hurt anyone.

Quote

I'm pretty surprised nobody commented on this guy. Or gal, ofcourse. He/she talks almost like an insider. This wasn't Jim in some pissed off mood, was he? Hmm...

I rarely post to this forum but feel a great need to do so on this snowy Christmas Eve.  I would not doubt that "Guest:  po" was a pissed off Jim and he would have every right to be, having to defend his friends against a so called fan.  Spoon, why are you so mean?  And so close to Chirstmas.  Shame.  Your "cute" little sly comments don't make you amusing, they make you an, and I quote, "asshole."  This whole stand of comments is so frustrating to me.  I know I have changed a lot during the four years I have been listening to mmj (thank God) so why would anyone assume the guys haven't, especially after all they've been through.  I have a feeling that these days are difficult ones for the guys and we true fans out there should support them, not throw ignorant remarks onto their forum board.  Support and trust.  I trusted them when I heard they were moving to a major label, I even trusted them when I heard them on damn bad beer commercial, and I will continue to trust and support them through all the line up changes.  It's been four years and they've never let me down.  NEVER.  I love them all equally.  Nicest guys ever.  Merry friggin Christmas.      

QuoteYou honestly love Ringo's songs?

Yep.  They're usually silly and evoke really vivid pictures in my head.

I think it's funny how many times I've been called an asshole in this topic - it might have even hurt my feelings if I wasn't such a snob.  And Tommy did sleep with my girlfriend.  What of it?  We're close like that.

But anyway, my original post was attempting to tease out the double meaning of Jim saying this is "The Most Capable" incarnation of the Jacket.  It is a compliment to the present line-up, sure, but it is also an insult to past members - some of whom haven't said the nicest of things about the band since leaving.  Go figure.

Now this second meaning might have been unintentional, fine, but I'm still sitting here chewing on my original question.  Is this even "The Most Capable" incarnation of the Jacket?  

I ask because I'm curious to know what you all think.  I'm not much of a musician myself, so some of the finer points of musicianship might be lost on me.  On one level, it's as straightforward as that.  Is Bo a better keyboardist than Danny?  Is Carl a better guitarist than Johnny?  Is Patrick a better drummer than J. or Chris?  Is Tommy a good bassist?    

Now this led us to some ancilliary questions - Are Carl and Bo session musicians?  Is the Jacket the Jim James show?  Can (and will) Patrick or Tommy be replaced as easily?  

We even had a nice sidebar conversation about the merits of production styles.  

Now somehow O and Tundra say the same types of things and yet manage to dodge that "asshole" bullet.  I'll puzzle over that one for a while (But I'll be damned if you'll get me to use the puzzled smiley).

I think PO, which I'm guessing is short for "pissed off" and who I'm hoping is not Jim incognito as was suggested, has misinterpreted my comments as an attack on Tommy (hence being PO'd), which was not my intention.  

For the record, I think Tommy is the shit.  I think he's an integral piece of the Jacket's sound and is an all around nice guy to boot.  But I also thought that Krist Noveselec was the greatest bassist that ever lived when I was fourteen because I didn't know any better.  

In fact, I still don't know any better to be honest, I just know that I've since been told that Krist is not a very "capable" bassist.  Now to show my cards - to be honest Krist not being "The Most Capable" bassist doesn't change my opinion of his playing.  I still think he's great and frankly I think that were he to have been replaced it would have been slim consolation to know his replacement was a better technical musician.  

---------------------
Oh, and about the Kopilot joke...

I like the thought of Danny and Tommy working together in Kopilot - it makes me smile.  In my fever dreams, Kopilot is the retirement resort of former Jacket members.  You leave the Jacket and you wake up in a bed in the middle of the store like in the Wizard of Oz - and Danny's there and Johnny's there and Chris is there and J. is there and Auntie Em and even little Toto.  They all work in Kopilot and end up starting a rival band to the Jacket called the Ugly Doll Kopilots - just like "The Misfits" from the Jem cartoon or the Chipettes from the Chipmonks cartoon. ;D

          

It's funny that you mentioned me, spoon, because I was starting to worry that Jim, if it's really him, hates me too, now. :(

Ok, here's the LAST word on this subject...whenever a band changes their line-up, including MMJ, just think of Miles Davis (or any jazz great, but Miles specifically) and the two greatest bands of all time-- the two incarnations of his quintet and the line-ups in between. Each band, whether with Coltrane and Bill Evans and Philly Joe, or with Herbie Hancock and Tony Williams and Wayne Shorter, was amazing!!! Miles asked these guys to join and follow his direction, but at the same time bring their own unique style. They were going to play Miles' music for sure, but he wanted them to bring something to the table (hell, just like John Cassavettes...he wrote a script, but he got upset when an actor didn't bring their own creativity with them). So in the end, you have two completely different bands that are great in their own way, but with one amazing thing in common---that trumpet!!!! To hear the first band play "So What" and the second band play it-- it's two different songs, neither better or worse, but amazingly different! I trust Jim like I would have trusted Miles were I around back then. If Miles or Jim says this guy can play "like a motherfucker," then I'm going to just sit back and listen to the band grow and change and love every minute!!!

did any of that make any sense??!?!? it did when in my head.....

oh, and Krist Noveselic IS a great bass player!

QuoteIt's funny that you mentioned me, spoon, because I was starting to worry that Jim, if it's really him, hates me too, now. :(

I still like you O!  

On lots of topics I've often kept my big mouth shut because you've already said what I was thinking better than I could have.        

But now that we're on the shit list, how about you and me think about starting up that rival band?  We'll hollar our shit talkin' into a crapped out tape recorder and to maintain our indie cred we'll destroy every one of our records as it comes off the line. Oh the pathos!

Listen, I think it's a little crazy to be worried about the specter of Jim - reading venom and vitriol into our rather innoculous comments.  We've seen a ton of shows, wear grooves in their records and check in with this site constantly - is that because we're "critics and naysayers" to borrow John's expression.  NO!  We're here because we're fans and we're interested in talking about the band and the music.  

This kind of electronic medium is a tough one.  You lose many of the markers of your personality - tone of voice, facial expressions - but should I consider a topic taboo just because I might be misunderstood?  That's dumb.  I refuse to take any of this that seriously.  

I'll let Jim judge my support at the shows - by how hard I'm stomping my feet and banging my head and if that's not good enough then to hell with everybody, including Jim.  

hmm...The Specter of Jim...good name for a rival band... ;D

Quote

 We're here because we're fans and we're interested in talking about the band and the music.  

Exactly! We should be able to say what we want without being called an asshole. Unless you disagree with me, if course, in which case you are an asshole  ;)

QuoteWe've seen a ton of shows, wear grooves in their records and check in with this site constantly - is that because we're "critics and naysayers" to borrow John's expression.  NO!  We're here because we're fans and we're interested in talking about the band and the music.

Does this give you license to say stupid shit like "kopilot is hiring"?!

If you're joking, you might want to insert some smileys or something...otherwise, to borrow your expression, this medium doesn't lend itself to alleged sarcasm or whatever the fuck you think you're thinking, which we can't read your mind, so make your intentions clearer, please?  

I said "naysayers" because frankly, unless your joking, you fit that description.  Constructive critcism is good, welcomed, and encouraged.  Firing off stupid shit like "kopilot is hiring" and "tommy slept with my girlfriend" aren't.  Do you know people have feelings?  If you love the band so much, stop reading into their personal lives and focus on the music.

After all of the long debates, we've talked about EVERYTHING under the sun, but I don't recall any threads that sounded so fucking personal.  So excuse me for taking it personally when you talk shit about people you don't know.  There, I said it.  If you knew these guys at all, you wouldn't talk shit like that.  

And that my friends is all I'm saying on this topic.  Sorry to be so pissed, but I've heard this shit before, and it pains me to hear it again.

thank you so much for always being the voice of reason, john. whenever things like this pop-up, i can always count on johnconaway to put a halt on some of the out of hand discussion we have.


ALL HAIL JOHNCONAWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've read this thread through a couple of times now and I really can't see what spoon has said that is so offensive. He brought up some interesting questions than offered his own slant on the answers. It's obvious that not everyone is going to agree with him but it all this vitriol really necessary?

like I said, making personal comments on the guys just isn't cool.  "kopilot is hiring" and "tommy slept with my GF" are over the line, IMHO.  

I just hear a total lack of respect in those comments, and like I said, if he'd insert "sarcasm on" or smileys, then we'd know he's joking...otherwise, it smacks of personal attacks on the guys.  "personal" as in inappropriate.

tell me you think their music sucks, or their clothes are great, or the show that was cancelled really bites...not some made up tripe about the personal lives of the guys.  this isn't national enquirer here, i'm not a freakin inquiring mind.  the guys don't deserve that.

I can sniff the wolves gathering in packs( again? ).

Freedom of speach, comrades.  
You/we don't have to agree, and it doesn't have to get personal or abusive.

I don't understand a lot of what is being written on this thread, I mean wtf is Kopilot? (I'm not that interested, actually)
I really don't care if the band sleep with each other, their mothers or next doors cat, I'm here for the music and the crack. Any opinions expressed are just that - opinions.  Don't mean there right or wrong.
If we could all just rearrange our undergarments, we can proceed.

I like the photos in the middle of the thread.

Word.

QuoteI'm here for the music and the crack

Damnit!  Is someone dealing?  Why didn't anyone tell me?!

(Also, greggy, I'm very much enjoying your "word"s.)

Quote
Damnit!  Is someone dealing?  Why didn't anyone tell me?!

ah, maybe that's why he's geordie in wonderland ;)

icecream anyone?

Before he gets arrested, I should explain that "crack" is an old Northern English word for good company and conversation. The Irish spell it "craic" I think.  

The crack on this forum is usually top quality :)

QuoteBefore he gets arrested, I should explain that "crack" is an old Northern English word for good company and conversation. The Irish spell it "craic" I think.  

The crack on this forum is usually top quality :)

interesting. didn't know that.
i'll call off the swat team.

let's crack

My wife and I will never forget the morning her Irish roommate stumbled in talking about the "good craic" she'd had the night before. ;)

QuoteMy wife and I will never forget the morning her Irish roommate stumbled in talking about the "good craic" she'd had the night before. ;)

LOL! That's exactly what an Irish or Norther English person would say, but I can see it must sound strange to you.

Glad you called off the SWAT team, CC, now I can get my pipe out again  ;)

The lady who rented my flat room to me in Edinburgh used to say her Mum was a real cracker.  Same thing?

QuoteFreedom of speach, comrades.  
You/we don't have to agree, and it doesn't have to get personal or abusive. I don't understand a lot of what is being written on this thread, I mean wtf is Kopilot? (I'm not that interested, actually)
I really don't care if the band sleep with each other, their mothers or next doors cat, I'm here for the music and the crack. Any opinions expressed are just that - opinions.  Don't mean there right or wrong.
If we could all just rearrange our undergarments, we can proceed.

Exactly what I'm thinking right now.

I've read with great interest the things spoon wrote down.  There were some interesting reactions posted, but I think we are now blowing this thing up here.  

We're all in it for the music, fans and band together (or still that's what I believe in). But, neither the band, nor the fans are sacred.  We're all individuals with own opinions and own criticism.

I consider the jacket as one of the finest and most hardworking groups in the universe ( allthough it's maybe time for a new cd or a new tour  ;)  ), but that doesn't mean I agree all the way with the things they do or don't do (although I have to say, I agree with 99% of the things they do  :)  ).  And I have the possibility to mention this here on this site, just as the other posters or the band has the possibility to react or to correct my criticism.

Some people may have more background information then others, some of this information can be wrong or correct (we can discuss about that), but regardless what people express, we have to try not to attack people. If we do so we're turning this forum into a definitely wrong-place-to spent-some-time.

PS 99% of the things we post here is very well meant.  

Well said!

I respectfully disagree with that assumption.  The band's private lives are none of our business, AND posting false, misleading, or just downright bullshit, hurtful lies about them is out of bounds.  They have feelings too, and just out of plain human respect we should honor their feelings.

THAT is the crux of the issue for me, and I won't tolerate it.

I'm quite sure Spoon or anyone else wouldn't tolerate that either, so adhere to the Golden Rule please?

I don't quite see what I learned here in this thread on the privates lives of the members.  And frankly I don't want to know anything about it, except that they're fine, healthy and enjoying themselves.

John, I don't get the clue here.  Maybe you have some more background information, and according to this information, maybe you can tell that some people wrote offensive things, but I can't seem to tell.


 

Don't turn on to the dark side of the Force John.

('cause this is a wrotten medium to communicate)

I forgot to put a smiley behind my last sentence

QuoteI respectfully disagree with that assumption.  The band's private lives are none of our business, AND posting false, misleading, or just downright bullshit, hurtful lies about them is out of bounds.  They have feelings too, and just out of plain human respect we should honor their feelings.

THAT is the crux of the issue for me, and I won't tolerate it.

I'm quite sure Spoon or anyone else wouldn't tolerate that either, so adhere to the Golden Rule please?

If you mean who's sleeping with whose girlfriend, looking back through the thread I can see it was "po" and not spoon who brought that up.

I don't think I've got any more to say about this. The whole thing's gone daft.

okay now,
pick up next week's copy of STAR Magazine and you can read all about who slept with who and who said what about who. it also features an exclusive interview with john jones, accusing jim james of stealing his initials. it's nasty.

the heart of this discussion is not a bad one so go ahead with that but don't run with star magazine's exclusive story please. they paid me big bucks for that.

cool?

Any recommandations for a good magazine?  :)

I read the New Scientist every week, but then I am a saddo  ;)

Hmm New scientist?

Sounds intellectual.

What's it about?  The interior organs of movie and music stars?

Quote
What's it about?  The interior organs of movie and music stars?

Occasionally  :)    It's about life, the Universe and everything. I love it (but as I say, I am a trifle sad  ;))

This weeks New Scientist has an article about Greggy and Jim being lovers.
I know.  I wrote it. Great photos, especially the one of Me, Jim, the Doc, Rinny and the spaceship.....................
I respect him as a person and a musician, and he respects me as an incomplete idiot that needs medication.

Its a mutual thang.

Word.

Seems like it handles a lot of topics. Interesting.

Does it contain any answer for why we are here on this earth?  ;)

QuoteThis weeks New Scientist has an article about Greggy and Jim being lovers.

Stop digging in someone's private life greggy.

Honestly, we don't want to know  ;D

Quote

Does it contain any answer for why we are here on this earth?  ;)

Some opinions, backed up by research. My opinion, backed up by no research, is that we are here on this earth to rock and roll  :D


Ang greggy, I saw you reading that article on pheromonal modification of puberty in rodents when you thought I wasn't looking  ;)

Its was shit.
Rat shit, that is, and we all know that stuff rolls but it don't rock.

Word

QuoteRat shit, that is, and we all know that stuff rolls but it don't rock.

LOL +++++++


For the information those of you not versed in the characteristics of rodent excreta (and I sincerely hope that's most of you) rat shit does roll! (I told you I was sad)

QuoteFor the information those of you not versed in the characteristics of rodent excreta (and I sincerely hope that's most of you) rat shit does roll! (I told you I was sad)

I hope you had some fun with the experiment.

Those experiments are part of my dim and distant past. But yes, we did have fun. When you're doing stuff like that you have to laugh or you'd go mad  :-/

Heh.  What a good way to start my day.

And I learned something, too!

QuoteHeh.  What a good way to start my day.

And I learned something, too!

Good morning to you EC  :)

The other day I said to my 12 year old son Ed that we learn someting new every day. He said yes but he tries not to in the holidays  ;)

Ah HA HA HA HA HA!  Oh lord.  That's so funny.

(Just so everyone knows, I didn't actually JUST wake up.  heh.  It is 10:30 on a Tuesday after all.  My roommate and I were discussing the inherent problems of taking on too much guilt for the rest of the world, and how it can lead, ultimately, to a destructive thing instead of a productive one.)

I am, however, still in my pyjamas.   :)

See, now we have a proper thread. :D




Word.

Yep, I see we're finally getting at the heart of what this topic is really about. :)

Now, I was already wondering why John was being so pissed off in here and now it appears he reacted so strongly on the sentence 'kopilot is hiring'. Now, once again, I'm gonna sound stupid, but I still don't know what that means. So I guess I'll just shut up.

You do still like me, do you, John? Please?  :( ;)

I have no idea what it (Kopilot) means, and I mentioned it earlier.

I'm sure JC does love you.

Anyway, I love you like a long lost sock.  You are the tortoise I never had.


Word.

Okay, I guess it's time for me to leave this topic as well, 'cause you've guys really lost me and this time, I think that's a good thing. :)

Kopilot is a new store in Louisville that happens to be owned by ex-MMJ keyboardist Danny Cash.It is a very cool place.Check out the website  www.kopilot.net

Ah, okay, now I get it. Well, then, John, I think you're overreacting. Spoon, if I read it right, never said he hates Tommy and wants him to leave, he was just making a cynical joke. Now, the problem with jokes is ofcourse that they're either funny or not, and this one was in your opinion, not funny. Okay. But it's nothing personal at all. He was just discussing the question wether band members are dispensible. Even if that question would have been answered by 'yes' (and most of us said 'no'), that wouldn't mean Jim is bad, or anything. Now, I think the Month of Sundays remark was a little too much, too, but I don't think you should be this hard on Spoon. He's just asking questions, not criticizing.

Now, who is this Clay Masters anyway? He was the one that started it, after all...

everyone is dispensable.

and professing to love a band and then making smug sarcastic jokes at their expense IS rude so spoon, i would say, remains an asshole.  nice try at defending yourself, though, even if 'inoculous' is not a word.

I don't guess that I really want to enter this fray, but it's amazing to me that this line:

Quote"I'm very excited about this current lineup," James said. "I feel this is the most capable band we've ever had and we're all getting along really well."

which should make anyone who's a My Morning Jacket fan really happy, has caused such tension and weirdness, and people to get upset.

I don't know.  If this current line up is the most capable and the guys are getting along, and the man who started this whole ride is excited, then YEAH!  Let's be effin' excited, too!

(Just to be clear, I'm not saying that anything or anyone was right or wrong - so much of this stuff I don't understand because I didn't know these guys before this line-up.)

Anyhow, word peeps.  A new album is forthcoming.  Feel the love.

What gender would you say big bird is??

Nice one Sweats!


Word

Greggy,

What's up with the "word" thing?

I really have no idea.  I keep doing it. Word. There I did it again.
We had a discussion of sorts I think a little while back as to what it means to people. I have decided that it means 'honest' or 'this is my truth', therefore I am letting people know that all my (current) posts are gospel.

Apart from those which are complete fabrication, which accounts for 97.6% of what I post. The other 2.4% are just plain lies.  
The rest is the truth, though. Believe me.

Word.

QuoteGreggy,

What's up with the "word" thing?

If it gets really annoying, don't tell me.
I am prone to massive childish behaviour if so encouraged. 8)



Word lfish, special one, just for you. Nobody else.

this thread has become...



booooooooooooring!

.....and your point is?

i'm really bored......


maybe it's just the crack talkin....!

Quotei'm really bored......


maybe it's just the crack talkin....!

Chill out dude  8)

Didn't the teenage mutant hero turtles used to say that?  ;)

Word up on that Boar, i likke your thoughts

QuoteI don't know if this "darkness" is necessarily the essence of the band, though I definitely understand what is meant by it. I think any band's ethic or essence or what have you is the creative embodiment or expression of their experiences and their emotions. ÊAs has been oft repeated, with time, those experiences/emotions change and thus the tone of the creative output changes.

I listen to "It's About Twilight Now" and "I Will Sing You Songs" -- better yet, "I Will Be There When You Die" and "I Will Sing You Songs" -- and I hear the same ethic/tone but completely different sounds. I don't think that the essence of MMJ's sound is some darkness -- rather it is an honesty of the conveyance of emotion and a significance of that emotion, an essence lacking in so much of popular music.

Ultimately, to argue the techniques or effects of the music's production seems silly to me, and ignorant of the larger creative effort of a band. To declare that such music is somehow not genuine because attempts are made (through mixing, mastering, overdubbing, added musicians, what have you) to clarify that emotional conveyance is, I think, naive and snobbish. Even worse, however, is to limit one's acceptance of a band's creative vision to one's own personal music tastes -- to demand their output always be melancholic and dark, for example, because that is what you enjoy.

Sure, you may not care for such "overproduction" in the music of a band like Radiohead -- maybe it doesn't fit your groove, your concept of pure, in-the-moment music. But hopefully you can understand why they are doing it -- to clarify the honesty and efficacy of their creative output. And the fact that MMJ seems to feel a similar desire in their latest work -- the fact that they feel a similar need to clarify and perfect their creative vision -- should be a reason to commend them, and not detract.