Anyone going to this? I'll be in the 5th row. Historic and an overall great venue.
I somehow managed to score first row seats and I could not be any more pumped. I should have just taken the day off work -- time is not moving! 8PM cannot come soon enough.
AWESOME show last night!
I noticed the concert seemed to be considerably shorter than all the previous shows (there was only one song played for an encore), which was kind of surprising. But I don't blame them, the crowd was pathetic, even for a Monday night Toronto crowd. It was embarassing how dead the crowd was (at least where I was sitting).
I found the crowd to be good to great. Sure they sat down, but MOF are a sit-down band for the most part. The applause after each song was loud and genuine. I thought the show was excellent. I'm in the process of writing a review for it for SoundProof Magazine and I'm planning on mentioning the crowd in a positive light. I found the encore to be a bit confounding.
Yeah, the short encore was weird.
Maybe you are right about the crowd, I just thought that while the applause was genuine, it always seemed to only last for a few seconds - it just seemed like there was too much silence.
Maybe we are just too respectful :)
But either way the show was amazing. I was bummed about the short encore, but I can't complain seeing as how it was pretty much twice the length of any Bright eyes / M ward show I have ever seen...MMJ is another story, Jim likes the marathon shows!
Was the encore His Master's Voice?
I see both sides of the crowd argument. I felt like I should have been clapping through all the silence, but everyone stopped a few seconds after each song's finish. But I guess that comes with the Massey Hall territory -- you sit, and listen.
I was elated to finally stand up to get them out for an encore, but was bummed when everyone sat right back down when they came out. Overall though, I wouldn't say the crowd affected the show -- for Massey Hall, it was kind of expected. I just wish I could have shown more appreciation for the amazing performance I witnessed. M.Ward, Jim James and Mike Mogis are all guitar gods in my book.
yeah, the encore was his master's voice...
Honestly, i found the crowd to be embarassing as well. All of these musicians separately seem to draw HUGE crowds, so why is it when they all get together and make an amazing album and beautiful collaboration that no one seems to notice or care much minus the few intense fans?
sure people were clapping, but honestly when i would look around during songs people just seemed to be staring, almost bored like. Maybe they were so enthralled by the music they couldn't muster up a smile or sing along or even movement, but personally if i love a song i can't just sit still and blankly stare.
but all fans are different, and we all seem to enjoy shows in our own ways.
either way, from my front row seat the show was spectacular and it's something i'll never forget! So absolutely unbelievable.
I sat at the front and the applause and cheers were both very loud. Honestly though, who wants to hear idiots screaming and yelling during Bermuda Highway or Chinese Translation? I thought the crowd was entranced and respectful, not bored; for example, I saw no one heading to the exits (on the main floor), other than to go to the bathroom. I've been to folk shows where all you can hear is people talking and hooting and hollering. This wasn't the kind of show that makes people get up and dance, unless you happen to be of the wookie/hippy persuasion.
I thought the crowd was pretty good, not extremely loud, but still there was a lot of cheering, clapping and a few shout outs. Personally I find it a bit distracting when there is too much trying-to-be-funny comments from the crowd, especially when it's constantly interrupting the musicians. I thought the amount last night was pretty good. But of course, cheering can always be louder! And it would have been awesome to stand for the encore or even Losin' Yo Head. Let's hope The Jacket plays Massey next time they come to town.
My only disappointment is that we only got a 1 song encore - probably due to the unfortunate fact that Massey Hall has an 11 PM curfew which tends to cut band's encores pretty short (Wilco commented on that when they were here last month. We got quite a few less songs than most of their sets had). So no 'At Dawn' which was too bad. But - can't complain. They played for almost 3 hours and it was pretty awesome. I know this set list is out of order but I tried to remember approximately when they played what.
Goodway
The Right Place
Say Please
Whole Lotta Losin'
Man Named Truth
One Hundred Million Years (M. Ward)
One Life Away (M. and Jim)
Chinese Translation (M.)
Baby Boomer
Ahead of the Curve
Golden (full band)
I Will Be There When You Die (Jim and Conor)
Bermuda Highway (Jim)
Look At You (Jim)
Wonderful (The Way I Feel) (Jim and Will Johnson)
We Are Nowhere And It's Now (Conor and Mike)
Leaders In The Temple (Conor and Mike)
At The Bottom of Everything (full band)
Kathy With a K's Song (Conor, M. Ward, Will Johnson)
Map of the World
Slow Down Jo
Dear God
Vincent O'Brien (full band)
Soul Singer In The Session Band (full band)
The Sandman, Brakeman and Me
Smokin' From Shootin' (full band)
Hit The Switch (full band)
Losin' Yo Head
----------------
His Master's Voice
Show poster:
http://shop.doublenaut.com/posters/monstersoffolk/zoom/
Nice to see other Toronto MMJ fans out there. I got my poster signed by the man himself and thought the show was awesome.
It would be cool to meet up with some of you sometime. Obviously have something in common. I was also at Bonnaroo and NYE last year. Drop me a message if you would like. I go to tons of shows.
QuoteNice to see other Toronto MMJ fans out there. I got my poster signed by the man himself and thought the show was awesome.
It would be cool to meet up with some of you sometime. Obviously have something in common. I was also at Bonnaroo and NYE last year. Drop me a message if you would like. I go to tons of shows.
Quick question for you. How exactly did you get to meet him after the show? Did you just waiting around?
I went out by the bus with the screeming girls waiting for Conor; Jim walked out of Massey hall and came to sign some autographs; I got my event poster signed... for the rest of the story see my other thread - message for Jim James from a drunken toronto fan.
that's the second time my mind went blank when meeting one of my heros. Last time it was Gregg Allman at a small Greg Allman and Friends concert in a casino outside of San Diego and I said something stupid like 'I came all the way from Canada just to see you' - I remember he looked at me like I was a crazy person.
Any MMJ fans want to hang out and talk shows we've seen (or others we are going to) I would host. I've been in Toronto for almost 4 years and have yet to meet many people with the exception of my girlfriend (might be a sign of getting older - I'm 35). Used to think I was a pretty social guy but this City is pretty lame that way I think... or maybe it is me that is lame. :-?
I think you may be the lame one, my friend. Toronto has an excellent, vibrant and diverse music scene (just check out Rotate This' upcoming shows; it's staggering to see the amount of bands booked), and all my friends are MMJ fans to some extent. Go to Jambands.ca and read some of the praise and hype. At the same time, you'd have to be living in a shell if you think MMJ, Bright Eyes, M. Ward or Monsters of Folk are anything bigger than indie. The average music fan won't know them or their music - no real hit songs is the factor for this.
I definetly could be the lame one. However, why was I able to see Widespread Panic last year with less than 500 people at the Sound Academy after seeing them at Bonnaroo a couple weeks earlier closing the festival and playing to 70000. The grateful dead (or members of) hardly ever came to Canada (yes I know the strip search story). I just want MMJ to keep coming back but am worried they will skip Toronto as they are too big for Kool Haus now after filling places like Madison Square Gardens last year.
I see all the cool shows in Toronto and am a big music fan. MMJ just happens to be my favorite. For example in the last 4 years I have seen Dylan 3X, CSNY, Neil twice, Raconteurs, Radiohead, White Stripes, MMJ, Monsters, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, decemberists, Bruce X2, dead weather, Gene Ween, Black Keyes, Gov't mule, Allmans and ratdog (Darien), have gone to Bonnaroo this and last year, NY for MMJ on NYE and many many more. However, I just have had trouble meeting friends with the same enthusiasm for live music in this town.
I'm probably just getting old and lame. :P LOL.
I'm kind of worried the Philly show may be cut short as well, I've seen Bright Eyes at the academy of music before, and I seem to remember a curfew there. What I don't get though, is if they take the stage at 7:30, how could they not get a full set in by 11?
You should be fine. Max time of these shows is 3 hours and there is no intermission What confuses me about the Toronto show is why they finished at 10:45. They still had 15 minutes to play the other three songs in the encore and still make the curfew.
I missed At Dawn but it didn't hurt the show. I felt like I got more than my money's worth. In fact of everything I saw this year (including Phish and Springsteen playing together in TN) this show was my favorite since MMJ NYE 2009 in NYC. Might have had something to do with sitting front and center at historic Massey Hall, might have something to do with being a huge MMJ fan... but the show was really great.
I wasn't the only one who thought so; here is the National post review: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/theampersand/archive/2009/11/03/concert-review-monsters-of-folk-toronto-s-massey-hall-nov-2.aspx
QuoteYou should be fine. Max time of these shows is 3 hours and there is no intermission What confuses me about the Toronto show is why they finished at 10:45. They still had 15 minutes to play the other three songs in the encore and still make the curfew.
I missed At Dawn but it didn't hurt the show. I felt like I got more than my money's worth. In fact of everything I saw this year (including Phish and Springsteen playing together in TN) this show was my favorite since MMJ NYE 2009 in NYC. Might have had something to do with sitting front and center at historic Massey Hall, might have something to do with being a huge MMJ fan... but the show was really great.
I wasn't the only one who thought so; here is the National post review: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/theampersand/archive/2009/11/03/concert-review-monsters-of-folk-toronto-s-massey-hall-nov-2.aspx
I was at both of those shows as well. Good stuff. :)
Review of the Toronto show plus photos and correct setlist:
http://www.blogto.com/music/2009/11/monsters_of_folk_redefine_the_supergroup_at_massey_hall/
QuoteI definetly could be the lame one. However, why was I able to see Widespread Panic last year with less than 500 people at the Sound Academy after seeing them at Bonnaroo a couple weeks earlier closing the festival and playing to 70000. The grateful dead (or members of) hardly ever came to Canada (yes I know the strip search story). I just want MMJ to keep coming back but am worried they will skip Toronto as they are too big for Kool Haus now after filling places like Madison Square Gardens last year.
As for Widespread Panic, they are an aquired taste and a firmly entrenched regional band. 70,000 people were not there to see WSP, even if they were so-called headliners. Their lack of popularity is not a Canada thing; WSP really only have big followings in parts of the South. I personally can't get into them. I find them extremely boring, even when Mikey was alive. I'm a Jimmy Herring fan, but not with WSP.
MMJ will probably play Massey Hall the next time they tour Canada, as long as they don't put out another Evil Urges.
I wouldn't compare audience size north and south of the border. Bands get paid regardless and many times bands just aren't as popular when they aren't performing in their native land.
Jaimoe,
I love the Toronto/Canadian Loyalty. I really really do. I have travelled the world and have worked all over the US and still love my Country the most. Especially the Maritimes where I am from.
That said; if there is one thing I love about the USA above all other Countries is that they really know how to have fun and hold event. Whether it be a local sporting event, concert festivals, film, whatever. They always do it big, and they know how to back/support their team/band; coming out in huge numbers.
GTA have over 5 million residence - A band like WSP should certainly attract more than 500 of us.
Still to recap - I do love Canada and am not bashing Toronto so much I just don't want to have to go to the US everytime I want to see my favorite bands. It's been really expensive over the years. I hate seeing empty seats at great shows in the City I live in.
Hey overthetop, I know you aren't bashing T.O.
The thing is, do you honestly think WSP have a following in Canada? I think if you gathered ALL the Canadian WSP fans together and held a concert, you wouldn't sell out the 1800 capacity Kool Haus. They just don't have a following, and they certainly don't have an audience "across the pond" either.
The Tragically Hip should have been big in the States, but they draw flies, or Canadian blackflies, when they play shows in New York or L.A.
When the White Stripes (late '90s) and Police (mid '70s) first rolled into Toronto, they played to only a handful of people - the Police played The Horseshoe to a small gathering and the Stripes played the Rivoli, to a reported three people. The Stripes of course are HUGE in this city and the Police first broke into North America at that very same Horseshoe gig. Of course, the actual number of people at the Police gig has mysteriously grown to thousands, even though the 'Shoe only holds 600-700.
One last thing: in this expensive and fractured music landscape, it is hard for bands to sell-out venues. And with 5 million people in Toronto with well over 200 different ethnic groups, the demographics don't always work in bands' favour when they come into town. That's just the way it is.
To conclude the conversation:
1. Why don't WSP have a Canadian Following? Obviously a band with a big following in the South will not be motivated to come to Canada to play for 500 people. How do you get the word out when you don't get played on the radio.
2. I would love to see MMJ play Massey. That would be the best possible situation.
3. I'm just saying word of mouth is the only way bands get exposure when they aren't on the radio. So anything to get the word out is a good thing and increases our chances of Toronto staying on MMJ's list of 'must visit' cities.
I really don't think WSP are as good as you think they are; they don't really have a following in the northern US states or the west coast and their albums are modest sellers at best. And the States' population is 10 times the size of Canada's so of course they can draw crowds in select areas. At the same time, WSP have missed the boat. They didn't break out when they were younger and they certainly aren't going to hit the big time now. The only thing I liked about their most recent album were the jams; the rest was pretty dull.
You gotta keep in mind that jam as a genre is dead or at best, nearly dead. It was fun while it lasted, but indie is the new king of live music.
QuoteI really don't think WSP are as good as you think they are; they don't really have a following in the northern US states or the west coast and their albums are modest sellers at best. And the States' population is 10 times the size of Canada's so of course they can draw crowds in select areas. At the same time, WSP have missed the boat. They didn't break out when they were younger and they certainly aren't going to hit the big time now. The only thing I liked about their most recent album were the jams; the rest was pretty dull.
You gotta keep in mind that jam as a genre is dead or at best, nearly dead. It was fun while it lasted, but indie is the new king of live music.
I wouldn't say this is true at all. WSP headlined two nights of the 10klf festival in northern Minnesota this year, and has headlined it multiple times in the past ('05 and '03, I believe). They definitely have a following in the northern Midwest and regularly sell out two- and three-night stands here, in good sized theaters (2500 capacity in Milwaukee) and outdoor amphitheaters (8000 capacity in Chicago). "Following Panic after college" is kind of an inside joke around these parts simply because it's so common.
I would never say they're critically acclaimed or even highly regarded within the genre, but they certainly aren't lacking for fans in the region.
And just my two cents...but anyone who followed Phish or the Dead this year can tell you that the jam scene is FAR from dead.
QuoteQuoteI really don't think WSP are as good as you think they are; they don't really have a following in the northern US states or the west coast and their albums are modest sellers at best. And the States' population is 10 times the size of Canada's so of course they can draw crowds in select areas. At the same time, WSP have missed the boat. They didn't break out when they were younger and they certainly aren't going to hit the big time now. The only thing I liked about their most recent album were the jams; the rest was pretty dull.
You gotta keep in mind that jam as a genre is dead or at best, nearly dead. It was fun while it lasted, but indie is the new king of live music.
I wouldn't say this is true at all. WSP headlined two nights of the 10klf festival in northern Minnesota this year, and has headlined it multiple times in the past ('05 and '03, I believe). They definitely have a following in the northern Midwest and regularly sell out two- and three-night stands here, in good sized theaters (2500 capacity in Milwaukee) and outdoor amphitheaters (8000 capacity in Chicago). "Following Panic after college" is kind of an inside joke around these parts simply because it's so common.
I would never say they're critically acclaimed or even highly regarded within the genre, but they certainly aren't lacking for fans in the region.
And just my two cents...but anyone who followed Phish or the Dead this year can tell you that the jam scene is FAR from dead.
Certainly Bonnaroo proves that the jam scene is still alive, but even its more recent success rides on more diverse lineups. Phish, Allman Brothers and the remaining Dead are top of the genre and of course they can still pack 'em in. Dylan is a defacto jam headliner. But really, the jam scene has been on the decline for many years, almost to the day when Phish called it quits. But second tier bands are slowly but surely calling it quits too, such as String Cheese Incident (I think it was Jambase or Jambands.com had a list of fairly well-known jam bands that have split up and it was well into double-digits).
Like I said, WSP do draw fairly well in select regions. I know they draw monster crowds in parts of the South. But as a whole, they certainly aren't widespread popular.
I used to be a big jam band fan, but the genre got tired and it became overrun with too many average bands that wrote below-average songs filled with too many pointless solos. Give me more great bands by the likes of Drive By Truckers and I'll jump back on the sinking boat.
I'm confused...did you just call DBT a jam band?
And I can only speak from my own experience, but I was surprised by the vitality of the scene that I saw this year. The demographic is a little older and a little more financially stable, but they came out in droves this summer.
QuoteI'm confused...did you just call DBT a jam band?
And I can only speak from my own experience, but I was surprised by the vitality of the scene that I saw this year. The demographic is a little older and a little more financially stable, but they came out in droves this summer.
The big festivals are still successful that's for sure. The scene is getting older, which should be a sign to anyone that it's on the decline. Phish are middle agers, but where are the great newer bands? There aren't many and I know for a fact many bands don't want to be labelled a "jam band".
The thing with the jam scene is that folks like to adopt fringe bands such as DBT, Ween, Bela Fleck, Bruce Hornsby etc... Heck, even some hippies think the Flaming Lips are a jam band - I can see their fogged out logic though since they did play moe. down.
Okay, I understand a little better. You make a good point about the dearth of young blood in the jam scene, though I'd argue there are a few bands on the verge (Portugal. The Man is the best example I can think of offhand). As you note, there are a lot of bands that aren't "jam bands" per se, but are "jam-friendly"; I'd argue that perhaps that means that the scene isn't dying, but expanding to incorporate the indie side of things, just as the scene has embraced bluegrass and jazz in the past.
And to clarify - I don't think it's just the festival scene where jam bands are doing well. The stand-alone Dead and Phish shows I saw this year were at BIG arenas and all sold out well in advance. Admittedly most of my concert calendar is made up of smaller club shows rather than big stadium shows, but I can't recall the last time I had to fight so hard for tickets for an arena show. There is definitely a demand to see these bands.
Jam band isn't formally defined to the best of my knowledge.
I don't consider the Almans or the Dead as true 'Jam band'; They know how to get to the point. I think of them as more of the bridge between good improvisational rock and roll and extreme jazzy unstructured jamming. Simply because there is improvisation and a lot of jamming doesn't mean that they should be lumped into the same category as Phish.
The Dead always knew how to get to the point and tell a good story (even if it is not a voice but a guitar telling the story. Dylan (who I have seen 13 times) and his band are always focused around one of Bob's well structured songs even though the band does improvise the story a little.
I don't consider MMJ a jam band at all. I love the structure of the songs. There is usually a build up, sub climax, climax, wind down... just like a good story. My favorite music is normally centered around a good story/story teller.
Phish are probably the only real 'Jam Band' by the extreme definition I truely love, and it's not their jamming I love... more their extremely talented way of blowing my mind while improvising. Less talented, mid tier jam bands did the jamming without the mind blowing parts that phish pull off so well and I never was a big fan.
my two cents, we all have an opinion.
Phish and the Dead will always draw well. They have history and loyalty behind them. I'm compiling a list of the 20 Best Albums of the Decade, and Farmhouse makes the cut. The album marked the pinnacle of the modern jam scene, but an argument can be made that everything started to go downhill from there. Some Deadheads will tell you that it all started to go downhill after Jerry died. I'm a closet and card-carrying Peachhead and I think this is true to some extent.
I know that Ween resented being adopted by the jam scene. Hornsby had no choice since he played many shows in and with the Dead. Basically, if you play a jam or jam-friendly festival, a band will suddenly find their audience demographic changed.
Like almost every genre except for maybe blues, jam bands will make a comeback. But I can't tell when that will be since there's so little buzz regarding new bands. The North Mississippi Allstars almost made an impact, but then they started to suck after their first album. Now, the Black Crowes seemed to have crossed over to the jam scene for good.
QuoteNow, the Black Crowes seemed to have crossed over to the jam scene for good.
Yeah, it does seem that way, doesn't it?
This has been an interesting discussion, gentlemen. :)
QuoteJam band isn't formally defined to the best of my knowledge.
I don't consider the Almans or the Dead as true 'Jam band'; They know how to get to the point. I think of them as more of the bridge between good improvisational rock and roll and extreme jazzy unstructured jamming. Simply because there is improvisation and a lot of jamming doesn't mean that they should be lumped into the same category as Phish.
The Allmans and Dead are the godfathers of jam and perhaps are/were the truest form of jam. They also defined the genre's parametres. As far as I can tell, the jam band genre began with Phish. It may end there with them as well.
It's very easy to list 30 bands that can be defined as a "jam band". Here are a few off the top of my head: Phish, moe., Gov't Mule, String Cheese Incident, Umphrey's McGee, Keller Williams etc...
The Mule are more of a heavy blues band, but Warren certainly knows where his bread is buttered.