My Morning Jacket

My Morning Jacket => The Shows => Topic started by: consigliare on Oct 27, 2021, 12:58 PM

Title: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: consigliare on Oct 27, 2021, 12:58 PM
All:

I just noticed that effective today 10/27/2021, CID has altered the terms of attendance to OBH 2022 and is now requiring that all take an unapproved and experimental "vaccine" that has been factually proven to be toxic and/or cause death in humans - all for a virus having a greater than 99% survivability rate, and all when there are other long used, proven, and effective treatments. 

As we will not take an untested, experimental, and unsafe "vaccine" for a virus having a 99% survivability rate, my wife and I will no longer be able to attend.  I just hope that CID will be willing to work with us to possibly transfer our package to others as we live in one of a few states where travel insurance could not be purchased.  If CID is not willing to work with us on this, then unfortunately, we will not attend any of their future events and/or will have to consider our further support of MMJ.  I do not saythis lightly as we have been to all OBHs thus far and have traveled all around the US to see them - all at very considerable time and expense.  Unfortunately, if they are not willing to standup and support their fans, then we cannot standup for them.

I hope more begin to realize that we are progressing further and further into tyranny and that these dictatorial mandates - to now be applied to children - are truly un-American and against all concepts of Freedom and Liberty.

"All we're asking for is 14 days to flatten the curve..."

Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: AgentAction on Oct 27, 2021, 03:44 PM
Way to take a stand. You are truly a PatriotEagleFreedomLiberty fighter.

I'll send you a postcard from Mexico.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: Cameron on Oct 27, 2021, 04:28 PM
This shit again?
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: parkervb on Oct 27, 2021, 04:38 PM
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: MOWJO8185 on Oct 27, 2021, 04:44 PM
I feel like anyone who uses the phrase "factually proven" almost always follows it up with something that's not true.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: MMJCOBRA on Oct 27, 2021, 04:49 PM
Lol. More room to dance!! 
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: consigliare on Oct 27, 2021, 05:39 PM
Yeah, clotting issues, increased myocarditis and the negative results/increased deaths as reported to the VAERS system due to the "vaccines" are all "fake news" and unsupported by factual evidence.

Here, taken from the Pfizer vaccine fact sheets and provided for your reading pleasure (See https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download):

Myocarditis and Pericarditis

Postmarketing data demonstrate increased risks of myocarditis and pericarditis, particularly within 7 days following the second dose. The observed risk is higher among males under 40 years of age than among females and older males. The observed risk is highest in males 12 through 17 years of age. Although some cases required intensive care support, available data from short-term follow-up suggest that most individuals have had resolution of symptoms with conservative management. Information is not yet available about potential long-term sequelae. The CDC has published considerations related to myocarditis and pericarditis after vaccination, including for vaccination of individuals with a history of myocarditis or pericarditis (
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html).

Additionally, there is also the VAERS system, which reports more deaths from the Covid "vaccines" than all other vaccines combined.  But again, all fake news and unsupported by factual evidence.

Why are people, without any analysis or reflection, so quick to mandate what they believe in, and ban what they don't?  We used to call this totalitarianism and it used to be abhorred.

And, yes, there will probably be much, much more room to dance in the next few years.

Have fun.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: Cameron on Oct 27, 2021, 05:40 PM
Now do side effects of Covid.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: consigliare on Oct 27, 2021, 07:05 PM
Side effects are similar to the annual flu, which includes death in some susceptible populations.

Greater than 99% survivability rate for most if you get covid, though.

Maybe, you would like the long term data and side effects of the covid "vaccines"?  Oh wait, I stand corrected, there is no long term data because it is still experimental and hasn't been tested. 

Maybe, you would like the data and long term side effects on the use of Ivermectin, which I am sure you refer to as horse dewormer, which was used to stop covid in its tracks in Uttar Pradesh, which has a population of some 250 million?  There are little, if any, and the Nobel Prize winning therapeutic has been safely administered to some 3.1 billion people worldwide.

You probably don't want that data, though, because it doesn't fit your narrative, groupthink, or comport with what is being heard in your echo chamber.

But, I do thank you for reminding me to never argue with a fool, as they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

The point of my original post was to simply advise others that CID has changed its terms and conditions to attend.

Have a good day.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: MMJCOBRA on Oct 27, 2021, 07:31 PM
That was not the point of your original post. C'mon man!!  The first half of your first sentence was to let people know, the rest was venting your thoughts on COVID and vaccines that you found via your own online "echo chamber". Do you have a medical degree?

It's all good though. This is why we have choices and consequences.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: Come Closer on Oct 27, 2021, 07:38 PM
Quote from: consigliare on Oct 27, 2021, 07:05 PMThe point of my original post was to simply advise others that CID has changed its terms and conditions to attend.

Have a good day.

Yes Lo...I mean consigliare, clearly you were simply advising people of the change without any commentary/politicizing. Why are people being so hostile to you, geez the nerve amirite.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: MMJCOBRA on Oct 28, 2021, 03:32 AM
PSA

I just got an email saying neg test is acceptable.



Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: parkervb on Oct 28, 2021, 08:45 AM
Quote from: Robert Cannon on Oct 28, 2021, 03:32 AMPSA

I just got an email saying neg test is acceptable.


is it neg test AND vaxxed? That's what Phish recently announced for their Mexico shows
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: robb on Oct 28, 2021, 09:50 AM
Quote from: parkervb on Oct 28, 2021, 08:45 AM
Quote from: Robert Cannon on Oct 28, 2021, 03:32 AMPSA

I just got an email saying neg test is acceptable.


is it neg test AND vaxxed? That's what Phish recently announced for their Mexico shows

from the email:
"With this in mind, the following three requirements will apply to One Big Holiday 2022 guests:
Proof of COVID-19 vaccination before departure;
Negative COVID-19 PCR test no more than 96 hours prior to check-in; AND
Antigen test for departure back to the USA"
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: rkwedge on Oct 28, 2021, 10:25 AM
I read it as you need both a vaccination and a neg test to go then a test while there to get back.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: MMJCOBRA on Oct 28, 2021, 11:30 AM
Ahhhhhh... you're right!!

Thanks for the clarification
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: parkervb on Oct 28, 2021, 12:43 PM
i would imagine much of the additional req's are due to this being international travel and obviously to protect CID, Hard Rock and the band from possible litigation.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: DaydreamNation on Oct 28, 2021, 01:42 PM
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobRoy286 on Oct 28, 2021, 04:02 PM
Fuck off.

Seriously, fuck right off and maybe try reading a book.

Would love to know your medical and educational background and what you have observed, not through a computer screen.


The government already has us all. You're told what to do every day. There are laws. You can't just do whatever the fuck you want to do. Stop being a baby.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: walterfredo on Oct 28, 2021, 04:06 PM
Please take you conspiracy theory Facebook fed misinformation away from here. Thanks.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobRoy286 on Oct 28, 2021, 04:25 PM
Gonna pray for you tonight, OP. You can't go to a concert now. The agony. If you stop supporting MMJ, I don't see how the band is gonna recover. We are all going to miss you deeply.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: consigliare on Oct 28, 2021, 05:51 PM
Wow, so much love!

I just want to sincerely thank you all for your display of true love, open-mindedness, and tolerance of your fellow man and other views.  Your supportive comments, prayers, and well-wishes have shown me that we are truly all in this together. 

I will certainly be sure to not let the door hit me in the ass on the way out - thank you for for that very good tip, kind sir - your selflessness knows no bounds!

I also hope that you all have more room to dance - which will now be completely segregated from the untouchables that refuse to take a still experimental and liability free vaccine - it will be a true safe space for all of you to enjoy!  Just remember to wear your covid-preventing masks on the bus and in all the common areas, else "Karen" is likely to get you kicked out!  But I tend to question the logic as to why, if you're all vaccinated, would you all need to wear masks on the bus or in the common areas?

As to being a "baby", a "baby" for not wanting anyone - even those that have told me to f*ck off and likewise - to be forced or coerced into taking an untested, unproven, experimental, and ineffective shot, for which there is still no long term data or legal or compensatory recourse should negative or deleterious effects or death result?  "Just take the shot already, Baby."  You do know that the only available shots are the experimental versions as the authorized version (Comirnaty) is not being currently being manufactured or distributed for use in the US, correct?  If not, check the Letter of Authorization (https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download), specifically page 14 and footnote 11.  And, when you go to get the vaccine or any required boosters, see if it says Comirnaty or PfizerBioNtech.  I am betting it will say PfizerBioNtech as there is no reason that Pfizer or any others would inoculate anyone with a legally liable "vaccine" when there is an available liability free "vaccine".  So, assuming I "Man Up" and take the shots, are you all going to "Man up" and pay for my long term healthcare needs and/or provide death benefits to my family should something bad result?  Will my healthcare insurance company cover me for any issues resulting from a still unauthorized and still experimental vaccine?  Will yours?  I actually do not know the answer to the latter few questions.

And, just let me know when, not if, you would like for us who refuse to take a liability free  and experimental vaccine to start wearing colored arm bands (oh, rats, I said "colored" - apologies), or drink from separate water fountains.  How about the back of the bus, when do you want us to start sitting at the back of the bus?  Better yet, maybe you just don't want us to be able to take the bus at all, or be able to have a job to support our families, or enter a publicly accessible facility such as a grocery store in order to buy food?  Camps. When would you like for us to go to the work camps?  I mean, it is possible that we could have covid even though we are not symptomatic, and we just may infect and make sick all of you who were told that if you take the "vaccine" you will not get infected or get sick.
 
And, please accept my sincerest apology for presenting the scientific facts and evidence regarding the "vaccines" - I have long known that people prefer to be fed BS than actual facts and evidence, which I remind you much of which that has been presented has been supported by links to the actual FDA and CDC documents, which are from "Facebook Fed Misinformation".  Perhaps, some of you may want to read some of the materials yourselves? 

And, it's an approximately $8K concert after everything is said and done for which they materially changed the terms of attendance and for which I may not be recompensed because my state prohibits the issuance of "for any reason" travel insurance. So, don't act like its not a small thing.

Your anger at the facts and evidence is misdirected. Please direct it to the proper entities that have lied to us all and please be sure to enjoy your shows - now in segregation(TM)!
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: ranyart on Oct 28, 2021, 06:24 PM
I agree 100% that CID needs to do the right thing in this sort of situation especially since they are changing the rules after they have your cash in their pockets, and I hope you get what you're looking for from them.  I really don't hold the band responsible for CID's services or actions since it's clear your essentially dealing with the devil when you read CID's T&C, especially when talking about OBH where they have total control of the situation (as opposed to buying tix for single shows from TicketBastard or whoever).

Good luck and hope to see you down the road when the time is right...
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: PDIDDY on Oct 28, 2021, 06:48 PM
I do think this is the Band calling the shots and not CID. If you look at CID  events at moon palace this winter they all have different guidelines.  There are two festivals with no vaccine requirement and playing in sand requires an extra test upon arrival. There is no consistency!  If CID was concerned with health of all, then mandates should be the same for all events. I think they need to do the right thing and offer refunds to those who can no longer go. Not fair to do this one month before final payment is due.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: Bulldog on Oct 28, 2021, 07:08 PM
So as someone going to both Playing in the Sand and OBH, I can say I firmly believe its CID calling the shots or so it would seem from the fact that the exact same policy is in place.

While I am typically pro vaccine and still plan on going to both I will say I am deeply disappointed that neither band has stepped up as of yet and as it stands folks loose out if they back out or a package.

The idea that theres a "gotcha" from the purchase and they can change the rules after the fact for those who choose to no longer attend just seems so wrong.

I'm all for having a safe vacation and doing the right thing, but it seems a bit heavy handed to put a vaccine mandate in place. I would have been more than happy to share the same air as those that had tested negative prior to departure and then again upon arrival.

The idea that you had to buy the trip insurance at the time to get a refund also seems like a copout.

Regardless I'll be at both, but I do think the bands had a chance to take a stand and at least insure full refunds for those choosing not to attend and its disappointing to see that at least thus far they have chosen not to.

That said, its also disappointing to see this topic continues to divide...
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobRoy286 on Oct 28, 2021, 07:09 PM
You aren't being forced into anything.

Nobody is holding anyone down and jamming a needle in their arm.

You're choosing not to get it. Institutions are choosing to exclude you for it. Choices! Freedom!


I'm not saying man up and get the shot. I'm saying man up and accept the consequences of your actions. Nobody is forcing you to do shit. You still have access to food and water and security. You're mad because you got uninvited to a concert. You are being a baby.


For the record, I think you should be granted a refund in the easiest process possible. That is completely fair. But shut the hell up about "tyranny" and comparing this to segregation in American. Come on, man.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobRoy286 on Oct 28, 2021, 07:21 PM
I'd be frustrated about spending the $8k and then the stipulations changing. I hope they're able to properly refund the people who are choosing to not get vaccinated.

But get a fucking grip, man.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: PDIDDY on Oct 28, 2021, 07:27 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on Oct 28, 2021, 07:08 PMSo as someone going to both Playing in the Sand and OBH, I can say I firmly believe its CID calling the shots or so it would seem from the fact that the exact same policy is in place.

Policies are different for those events. Grabbed this from website. I honestly think it's the bands. Look at the variations-

With this in mind, all of the following four requirements will apply to all Playing in the Sand 2022 guests:

• Proof of COVID-19 vaccination before departure;
• Negative COVID-19 PCR test no more than 96 hours prior to check in; • Antigen test administered at check in; AND
• Additional antigen test for departure.

With this in mind, the following requirements will apply to all Crash My Playa 2022 guests:

• Negative COVID-19 PCR test no more than 96 hours prior to check in; • Antigen test for departure

With this in mind, the following three requirements will apply to One Big Holiday 2022 guests:

• Proof of COVID-19 vaccination before departure;
• Negative COVID-19 PCR test no more than 96 hours prior to check-in; AND • Antigen test for departure back to the USA
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: MMJCOBRA on Oct 28, 2021, 08:06 PM
All right everyone.. we all should to be kind and respectful to one another. Especially in these times of such complete division. One thing I've learned in these last 18 months is patience and love.

I have a friend with very similar views to the original poster. At first, I could not understand how someone I respected could believe in such crapola. However, after thinking about it for a while, I realized that are differences did not define our friendship. We can now talk about covid and the vaccine to better understand where each of us is coming from. I hope one day he'll be able to understand what I consider to be the safest way out of this pandemic. But if not, I'll still love him just the same.

I'm sure that our boys in My Morning Jacket, Jim, Bo, Patrick, Tom, and Carl support and advocate everyone getting the vaccine that is able. However, I'm even more positive that they would want us to focus on the things that bind us together, out commonalities, and our friendship, and would want us to keep our lines of communication open in order to respectfully discuss our differences.

I apologize for the love and hippie admonitions but I just wanted to get that off of my chest because I've met so many wonderful people through these message boards and through our common fandom of My Morning Jacket.  <3  <3  <3
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobRoy286 on Oct 28, 2021, 08:09 PM
Quote from: Robert Cannon on Oct 28, 2021, 08:06 PMAll right everyone.. we all should to be kind and respectful to one another. Especially in these times of such complete division. One thing I've learned in these last 18 months is patience and love.

I have a friend with very similar views to the original poster. At first, I could not understand how someone I respected could believe in such crapola. However, after thinking about it for a while, I realized that are differences did not define our friendship. We can now talk about covid and the vaccine to better understand where each of us is coming from. I hope one day he'll be able to understand what I'm trying to show him. But if not, I'll still love him just the same.

I'm sure that our boys in My Morning Jacket, Jim, Bo, Patrick, Tom, and Carl support and advocate everyone getting the vaccine that is able. However, I'm even more positive that they would want us to focus on the things that bind us together, are commonalities, and our friendship, and would want us to keep our lines of communication open in order to respectfully discuss our differences.

I apologize for the love and hippie admonitions but I just wanted to get that off of my chest because I've met so many wonderful people through these message boards and through our common fandom of My Morning Jacket.  <3  <3  <3
The dude deserves to be called out for the "back of the bus" comparisons. That is not only idiotic but offensive. Just completely out of line. He apologized for racism that no one had yet even accused him of. That's weird.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: MMJCOBRA on Oct 28, 2021, 09:34 PM
Totally get it but it's a net zero proposition to respond to vitriol w vitriol. 

WWJD - What Would Jim Do  :grin:  :headphones:

I just wanted to share my new perspective that I'm trying to communicate with others, online or not, the same way I would if it was face to face w my friends and family. Tact, education and respect is one way our society can start to heal.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobRoy286 on Oct 29, 2021, 01:38 AM
Quote from: Robert Cannon on Oct 28, 2021, 09:34 PMTotally get it but it's a net zero proposition to respond to vitriol w vitriol. 

WWJD - What Would Jim Do  :grin:  :headphones:

I just wanted to share my new perspective that I'm trying to communicate with others, I line or not,f the same way I would if it was face to face w my friends and family. Tact, education and respect is one way our society can start to heal.
You're right.

I get worked up because it's a matter of public health and doing your part in society. Make your choice, but accept the consequences. I'm not gonna get worked up over someone not getting vaccinated. But when they make that choice and then get mad that they can't go wherever they want (which btw, in my experience, NOT ONE TIME have I been denied entry or even asked to prove my vaccination) and think that they're being oppressed just as much as anyone in American history? That is fucked. Being black isn't a choice, nor is it a fucking virus, so comparing Covid protocols to the long history of racism in this country is just obtuse. The dude is mad because he can't go to a concert anymore, and he equated it with the story of African Americans. I'm okay with him fucking off.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: consigliare on Oct 29, 2021, 01:58 AM
All,

I have both scientific and legal backgrounds, which resultingly, cause me to question everything.  This is simply how I have been trained.

To me, unless there is a dire medical emergency, there is absolutely no logical basis for most to take any medicament that remains experimental and/or that was rushed to market and/or rushed through the authorization process - especially when there are other treatment options, and even more so when the survivability rate is so high for most groups.  Are there outliers?  Sure.  Should some people choose to take such medicaments based on their group and risk/benefit?  Sure.  Should some be able to take such medicaments to make themselves feel better if they so choose?  After full disclosure and analysis of the costs/benefits, sure. 

However, when such medicaments remain experimental, the survivability rates so high, and when there are other available treatments, my view is that no person should be mandated or coerced to take such medicament - especially when there is no legal recourse.  To me, such coercion includes the fear of a loss of employ or livelihood, the fear of an inability to travel, the fear of a loss of services, the fear of loss of access to public venues, etc.  I would certainly not do this or support this being done to any one of you - including those that have put shade on me - and I would, likewise, hope you would not do, or support, the same being done to me.

As you know, people are losing their jobs due to the vaccine mandates and what I view as fear mongering, people are being denied access, etc. - again, all because they will not be coerced into taking an experimental vaccine for a virus having a very high survivability rate.  Additionally, please appreciate that there is also natural immunity, which is stronger and far longer lasting than any immunity resulting from the shots.  There is also available testing.  Yet, for some reason these are not being considered or deemed acceptable in the stead of experimental vaccines. 

Again, my view is that dictatorial mandates in the form of executive orders are just that - dictatorial.  These are not bills that were brought up, debated, passed by both houses of Congress and then signed into law.  They are also not regulations promulgated by an agency resulting from a proper public note and comment period - I do not practice regulatory law, so please accept my apologies for any errors or mis-statements.  Last I checked, our form of government is (or is supposed to be) a Constitutional Republic, not a dictatorship.

So, to me, a person that is both scientifically and legally trained, everything that has occurred in the last year or so has been wholly contrary to every principle - legal, scientific, ethical and moral - that I have been taught and believe in.  Additionally, when I look to history I cannot help but see that we are being purposefully divided into two groups, with one group being led to believe it is justfiable to deny the other some of their most basic and fundamental human rights - all for a virus having a very high survivablity rate.  Sure, it is not racism, but it certainly is discrimination that denies others of their most basic human rights.  Hence, I stand by my analogies. Additionally, if Israel, Australia, Canada, and the UK are any indicators of what's to come to our shores, I only see further division and loss of human rights in the US.

Some have mentioned choice - does a govermental mandate that says if you do not take an experimental vaccine else you will lose your job, you will not be able to travel, you will not be able to access a public facility, or you will lose your livelihood, really give a person much choice at all?  Is there really a choice when one has to choose between between a threat of bodily harm or loss of one's livelihood?  Or, is such a false choice that is against a person's inherent and inalienable rights?  I tend to believe that such is against one's inherent and inalienable rights.

So, please accept my apology if I blithely communicated that the basic scientific, legal, ethical and moral principles and beliefs I possessed and understood were basic fundamental principles and beliefs universally accepted and held by most others in the US and other Western countries.

To those throwing shade, I hope you have fun.  To those that seemed to be supportive - thanks.

Game off, Wayne.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobRoy286 on Oct 29, 2021, 06:31 AM
I'm sure the history books will come to include Consiglaire next to the names of MLK and Rosa Parks. His boycott of the band My Morning Jacket will be a hallmark of American history when all is said and done.

Life, liberty, and OBH 2022.

You are a brave patriot.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: slappymoe on Oct 29, 2021, 08:22 AM
Quote from: consigliare on Oct 29, 2021, 01:58 AMAll,

I have both scientific and legal backgrounds, which resultingly, cause me to question everything.  This is simply how I have been trained.

To me, unless there is a dire medical emergency, there is absolutely no logical basis for most to take any medicament that remains experimental and/or that was rushed to market and/or rushed through the authorization process - especially when there are other treatment options, and even more so when the survivability rate is so high for most groups.  Are there outliers?  Sure.  Should some people choose to take such medicaments based on their group and risk/benefit?  Sure.  Should some be able to take such medicaments to make themselves feel better if they so choose?  After full disclosure and analysis of the costs/benefits, sure. 

However, when such medicaments remain experimental, the survivability rates so high, and when there are other available treatments, my view is that no person should be mandated or coerced to take such medicament - especially when there is no legal recourse.  To me, such coercion includes the fear of a loss of employ or livelihood, the fear of an inability to travel, the fear of a loss of services, the fear of loss of access to public venues, etc.  I would certainly not do this or support this being done to any one of you - including those that have put shade on me - and I would, likewise, hope you would not do, or support, the same being done to me.

As you know, people are losing their jobs due to the vaccine mandates and what I view as fear mongering, people are being denied access, etc. - again, all because they will not be coerced into taking an experimental vaccine for a virus having a very high survivability rate.  Additionally, please appreciate that there is also natural immunity, which is stronger and far longer lasting than any immunity resulting from the shots.  There is also available testing.  Yet, for some reason these are not being considered or deemed acceptable in the stead of experimental vaccines. 

Again, my view is that dictatorial mandates in the form of executive orders are just that - dictatorial.  These are not bills that were brought up, debated, passed by both houses of Congress and then signed into law.  They are also not regulations promulgated by an agency resulting from a proper public note and comment period - I do not practice regulatory law, so please accept my apologies for any errors or mis-statements.  Last I checked, our form of government is (or is supposed to be) a Constitutional Republic, not a dictatorship.

So, to me, a person that is both scientifically and legally trained, everything that has occurred in the last year or so has been wholly contrary to every principle - legal, scientific, ethical and moral - that I have been taught and believe in.  Additionally, when I look to history I cannot help but see that we are being purposefully divided into two groups, with one group being led to believe it is justfiable to deny the other some of their most basic and fundamental human rights - all for a virus having a very high survivablity rate.  Sure, it is not racism, but it certainly is discrimination that denies others of their most basic human rights.  Hence, I stand by my analogies. Additionally, if Israel, Australia, Canada, and the UK are any indicators of what's to come to our shores, I only see further division and loss of human rights in the US.

Some have mentioned choice - does a govermental mandate that says if you do not take an experimental vaccine else you will lose your job, you will not be able to travel, you will not be able to access a public facility, or you will lose your livelihood, really give a person much choice at all?  Is there really a choice when one has to choose between between a threat of bodily harm or loss of one's livelihood?  Or, is such a false choice that is against a person's inherent and inalienable rights?  I tend to believe that such is against one's inherent and inalienable rights.

So, please accept my apology if I blithely communicated that the basic scientific, legal, ethical and moral principles and beliefs I possessed and understood were basic fundamental principles and beliefs universally accepted and held by most others in the US and other Western countries.

To those throwing shade, I hope you have fun.  To those that seemed to be supportive - thanks.

Game off, Wayne.
condensed version of this post:  But muh freedoms!!!

many people in this country, and many of our "leaders" in government, are fucking broken.  we're a couple of election cycles away from president donald trump, jr. :shocked:
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: MOWJO8185 on Oct 29, 2021, 09:40 AM
If he's not getting a refund that's messed up but that's where my sympathy ends. Making this event vaccine mandatory is the right thing to do at this juncture, especially with it involving international travel.

I do sincerely hope these vaccine mandates aren't here to stay because that will mean we have gotten this all more under control. I'm not really interested in permanently punishing the unvaccinated - just interested in covid getting better.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobRoy286 on Oct 29, 2021, 10:43 AM
Quote from: MOWJO8185 on Oct 29, 2021, 09:40 AMIf he's not getting a refund that's messed up but that's where my sympathy ends. Making this event vaccine mandatory is the right thing to do at this juncture, especially with it involving international travel.

I do sincerely hope these vaccine mandates aren't here to stay because that will mean we have gotten this all more under control. I'm not really interested in permanently punishing the unvaccinated - just interested in covid getting better.
Spot on. We all want this to be over. My question to the people who think this is all some big hoax...why? What's the incentive? Why would these bands want fewer people to come to their shows? Who is benefitting? Some people are just wayyy too far gone.

I think most of us agree that this is a huge rule change and refunds should be given as requested. If he had wanted to start a thread getting information on these rule changes or refunds or whatever, totally fine! Nobody would have a problem with that! But going on a tangent about tyranny and comparing this to the civil rights of African Americans...fucking yikes. If you're well off enough to spend the $8k or whatever it is in the first place, you're not even close to being "oppressed." Come on.

The "oh no I said 'colored' - sorry!" really got me. This dude is so regularly accused of racial insensitivity that he needs to sarcastically own it to get ahead of it.

Oh lawd help us.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: panic34 on Oct 29, 2021, 11:48 AM
Quote from: RobRoy286 on Oct 29, 2021, 01:38 AM
Quote from: Robert Cannon on Oct 28, 2021, 09:34 PMTotally get it but it's a net zero proposition to respond to vitriol w vitriol. 

WWJD - What Would Jim Do  :grin:  :headphones:

I just wanted to share my new perspective that I'm trying to communicate with others, I line or not,f the same way I would if it was face to face w my friends and family. Tact, education and respect is one way our society can start to heal.
You're right.

I get worked up because it's a matter of public health and doing your part in society. Make your choice, but accept the consequences. I'm not gonna get worked up over someone not getting vaccinated. But when they make that choice and then get mad that they can't go wherever they want (which btw, in my experience, NOT ONE TIME have I been denied entry or even asked to prove my vaccination) and think that they're being oppressed just as much as anyone in American history? That is fucked. Being black isn't a choice, nor is it a fucking virus, so comparing Covid protocols to the long history of racism in this country is just obtuse. The dude is mad because he can't go to a concert anymore, and he equated it with the story of African Americans. I'm okay with him fucking off.

Amen, Rob Roy. A-fucking-men. You nailed it here. Thank you for so clearly and eloquently stating it. While I like the What Would Jim Do approach, this vaccine issue doesn't come even remotely close to resembling the history of racism and the experience of truly marginalized people. Thank you for pointing it out.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: shumatec1012 on Oct 29, 2021, 02:28 PM
Quote from: consigliare on Oct 29, 2021, 01:58 AMAll,

I have both scientific and legal backgrounds, which resultingly, cause me to question everything.  This is simply how I have been trained.

To me, unless there is a dire medical emergency, there is absolutely no logical basis for most to take any medicament that remains experimental and/or that was rushed to market and/or rushed through the authorization process - especially when there are other treatment options, and even more so when the survivability rate is so high for most groups.  Are there outliers?  Sure.  Should some people choose to take such medicaments based on their group and risk/benefit?  Sure.  Should some be able to take such medicaments to make themselves feel better if they so choose?  After full disclosure and analysis of the costs/benefits, sure. 

However, when such medicaments remain experimental, the survivability rates so high, and when there are other available treatments, my view is that no person should be mandated or coerced to take such medicament - especially when there is no legal recourse.  To me, such coercion includes the fear of a loss of employ or livelihood, the fear of an inability to travel, the fear of a loss of services, the fear of loss of access to public venues, etc.  I would certainly not do this or support this being done to any one of you - including those that have put shade on me - and I would, likewise, hope you would not do, or support, the same being done to me.

As you know, people are losing their jobs due to the vaccine mandates and what I view as fear mongering, people are being denied access, etc. - again, all because they will not be coerced into taking an experimental vaccine for a virus having a very high survivability rate.  Additionally, please appreciate that there is also natural immunity, which is stronger and far longer lasting than any immunity resulting from the shots.  There is also available testing.  Yet, for some reason these are not being considered or deemed acceptable in the stead of experimental vaccines. 

Again, my view is that dictatorial mandates in the form of executive orders are just that - dictatorial.  These are not bills that were brought up, debated, passed by both houses of Congress and then signed into law.  They are also not regulations promulgated by an agency resulting from a proper public note and comment period - I do not practice regulatory law, so please accept my apologies for any errors or mis-statements.  Last I checked, our form of government is (or is supposed to be) a Constitutional Republic, not a dictatorship.

So, to me, a person that is both scientifically and legally trained, everything that has occurred in the last year or so has been wholly contrary to every principle - legal, scientific, ethical and moral - that I have been taught and believe in.  Additionally, when I look to history I cannot help but see that we are being purposefully divided into two groups, with one group being led to believe it is justfiable to deny the other some of their most basic and fundamental human rights - all for a virus having a very high survivablity rate.  Sure, it is not racism, but it certainly is discrimination that denies others of their most basic human rights.  Hence, I stand by my analogies. Additionally, if Israel, Australia, Canada, and the UK are any indicators of what's to come to our shores, I only see further division and loss of human rights in the US.

Some have mentioned choice - does a govermental mandate that says if you do not take an experimental vaccine else you will lose your job, you will not be able to travel, you will not be able to access a public facility, or you will lose your livelihood, really give a person much choice at all?  Is there really a choice when one has to choose between between a threat of bodily harm or loss of one's livelihood?  Or, is such a false choice that is against a person's inherent and inalienable rights?  I tend to believe that such is against one's inherent and inalienable rights.

So, please accept my apology if I blithely communicated that the basic scientific, legal, ethical and moral principles and beliefs I possessed and understood were basic fundamental principles and beliefs universally accepted and held by most others in the US and other Western countries.

To those throwing shade, I hope you have fun.  To those that seemed to be supportive - thanks.

Game off, Wayne.

I actually agree with you Wayne- i am not at all against the vaccine- I chose to get it but I am wholeheartedly against mandating it and separating society into classes ( black and brown people have every reason to mistrust medical mandates and will pay more of a price than their white counterparts for it)

Everything about how it has been handled has seemed to benefit the corporate elite class ( record high profits) and government institutions ( tighter controls on your freedom) for what is essentially a new form of the flu. I'll say it again, I chose to get vaccinated and would choose to again and again.. but the facts do not line up for mandates or mass hysteria.

I think there is a huge problem in our media/ public discourse of allowing fascism and tyrany when it supports you being " right" the same thing trump supporters did in allowing all of the henious things of his admin..

There is a significant lack of critical thinking and willingness to learn/ openmindedness on the issue. if you disagree with your fellow man you're " a fucking idiot.." come on people..

Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobRoy286 on Oct 29, 2021, 04:38 PM
Has any of that stuff actually happened to you guys? Have you guys lost your livelihoods? Or are you still able to drop 8 grand on a vacation in Mexico? You damn well better get refunded if you were mislead on your permissions. But it just seems like a silly thing to cry tyranny about. I completely agree that minorities have a good reason to mistrust vaccines, and there is DEFINITELY a conversation to be had there.

Like someone else said, I really hope these mandates aren't permanent. If these are forever, and they literally start making different drinking fountains and making you sit in the back of the bus (you know, things that ACTUALLY happened), then yeah that is worthy of some anger and severe mistrust. But that ain't happening.

The whole "it's just like the flu" and "99% survival rate" mindset is extremely misguided. It was NEVER about deaths alone. It was about hospitals and health care systems being overwhelmed. Higher patient:staff ratios. People getting less frequent and less attentive care. Portable morgues. And if the flu, the very exact flu we know today, hit planet earth for the first time right now, it would fuck us just as hard if not harder than covid has. But flu vaccines and hygiene standards (like mandates for employees to wash their hands) have made it more manageable over the course of human existence. Hospitals have had time to accommodate it.

It's not a coincidence that stadiums started filling and things started feeling somewhat normal again shortly after the vaccine arrived. Pandemics had been studied before and even when Covid first hit many people were saying that a vaccine would take about 18 months and that would help return things to normal. That is exactly what is happening. It's okay if you think Jacket still enforcing this mandate in March 2022 is excessive, that's fine. But man...they're just looking out for people's health. Just be patient. They don't want to exclude people but they also don't want to further any covid problems. They had to choose and I think they chose the cautionary side. That's not something to get mad at them about. They're doing what they think is right.

To anyone with the same mindset as the OP - talk with people in the medical community. Doctors, nurses, NPs, interns, anyone that works in hospitals. Ask them how Covid has been for their hospital. And I don't mean on some internet chat forum, I mean in person, face-to-face. It can be someone you know and trust, or a total stranger. They'll tell you a similar story. It's been hell, but is getting better with the vaccine. You think these people are pushing this giant hoax for their own financial gain? No, medical workers are quitting left and right. Use your head and be patient and understand that people are just trying to help make the world safer. We all want this to be over.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: crooney on Oct 29, 2021, 05:12 PM
Well said, RobRoy.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: shumatec1012 on Oct 29, 2021, 05:25 PM


I def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed that boosters are not needed for people under 65 without preexisting conditions, and what did the head advisor do, override it. the experts on that panel say that they were basically given the outcome and then told to find the science to support it. The relationship between government and corporations ( big pharma) is too entwined in this nation to blindly trust either of these parties, let alone blindly go along with a mandate that literally requires compliance in what can often be shotty science in order to earn a living ( fuck concerts- that's not what is at stake here..)

Covid is NOT a hoax- i am not an anti-vaxer please do not diminish my argument.

No government control that is granted has EVER been taken away once the threat is gone, you only need to look back to the Patriot Act to see that. Vaccine mandates and passports as we see in Euroupe, once established will be forever. I worry that this is not worth it. We just had Donald Trump as president, and likely in 3 years will have another republican in office. What are they going to mandate? The booster approval shows that medical expertise is often at the whim of political and corporate pressure.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobRoy286 on Oct 29, 2021, 06:04 PM
Quote from: shumatec1012 on Oct 29, 2021, 05:25 PMI def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed that boosters are not needed for people under 65 without preexisting conditions, and what did the head advisor do, override it. the experts on that panel say that they were basically given the outcome and then told to find the science to support it. The relationship between government and corporations ( big pharma) is too entwined in this nation to blindly trust either of these parties, let alone blindly go along with a mandate that literally requires compliance in what can often be shotty science in order to earn a living ( fuck concerts- that's not what is at stake here..)

Covid is NOT a hoax- i am not an anti-vaxer please do not diminish my argument.

No government control that is granted has EVER been taken away once the threat is gone, you only need to look back to the Patriot Act to see that. Vaccine mandates and passports as we see in Euroupe, once established will be forever. I worry that this is not worth it. We just had Donald Trump as president, and likely in 3 years will have another republican in office. What are they going to mandate? The booster approval shows that medical expertise is often at the whim of political and corporate pressure.
I gotcha man. I don't think you're an idiot, nor do I automatically assume anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot. The OP certainly presented himself as one though, with the whacky shit he said. I get it that people are frustrated - I certainly could've dialed down the profanity and aggression. I will say though, it's unfair to say that government control has NEVER been reversed, and then say you *only* need to look at one example. There were mask mandates and closures for the Spanish Flu pandemic, and those eventually were phased out. Maybe I'm misunderstand where you're coming from. There's plenty of realism to what you are saying. And I don't mean to put words in your mouth and claim you think mask mandates are the same as vaccine requirements (I certainly weigh those two differently), but LOTS of people think it's all the same and that even wearing a mask is oppression.
 I...I don't know. I guess I trust the medical community more than others. I guess I'm a sheep.

Bahh.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: ranyart on Oct 29, 2021, 06:15 PM

Probably my favorite on Animals  :headphones:
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobRoy286 on Oct 29, 2021, 06:17 PM
Quote from: ranyart on Oct 29, 2021, 06:15 PM

Probably my favorite on Animals  :headphones:
Ooh it's been a while, might have to spin that album now as an opener for tonight's live stream  :beer:
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: mdgsolo on Oct 29, 2021, 06:35 PM
Quote from: shumatec1012 on Oct 29, 2021, 05:25 PMI def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed


9 of 6?  That is a lot!

Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: shumatec1012 on Oct 29, 2021, 06:36 PM
Quote from: RobRoy286 on Oct 29, 2021, 06:04 PM
Quote from: shumatec1012 on Oct 29, 2021, 05:25 PMI def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed that boosters are not needed for people under 65 without preexisting conditions, and what did the head advisor do, override it. the experts on that panel say that they were basically given the outcome and then told to find the science to support it. The relationship between government and corporations ( big pharma) is too entwined in this nation to blindly trust either of these parties, let alone blindly go along with a mandate that literally requires compliance in what can often be shotty science in order to earn a living ( fuck concerts- that's not what is at stake here..)

Covid is NOT a hoax- i am not an anti-vaxer please do not diminish my argument.

No government control that is granted has EVER been taken away once the threat is gone, you only need to look back to the Patriot Act to see that. Vaccine mandates and passports as we see in Euroupe, once established will be forever. I worry that this is not worth it. We just had Donald Trump as president, and likely in 3 years will have another republican in office. What are they going to mandate? The booster approval shows that medical expertise is often at the whim of political and corporate pressure.
I gotcha man. I don't think you're an idiot, nor do I automatically assume anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot. The OP certainly presented himself as one though, with the whacky shit he said. I get it that people are frustrated - I certainly could've dialed down the profanity and aggression. I will say though, it's unfair to say that government control has NEVER been reversed, and then say you *only* need to look at one example. There were mask mandates and closures for the Spanish Flu pandemic, and those eventually were phased out. Maybe I'm misunderstand where you're coming from. There's plenty of realism to what you are saying. And I don't mean to put words in your mouth and claim you think mask mandates are the same as vaccine requirements (I certainly weigh those two differently), but LOTS of people think it's all the same and that even wearing a mask is oppression.
 I...I don't know. I guess I trust the medical community more than others. I guess I'm a sheep.

Bahh.

I don't think you're a sheep and I appreciate your genuine comment. Truth is, that that trust in the medical community is a leap of faith in some regards. I respect another's faith until they tell me I'm an idiot for not sharing it with them. haha

I def think everyone should get vaccinated and I tell everyone I know to go out and do just that. But for those who have problems trusting these institutions ( for MANY good reasons) forcing them to do so by penalty of losing their livelihood isn't the most convincing way. Italy has one of the strongest mandate polcies ( even boosters are mandated) and they have over 80% of the population vaccinated- this isn't soley about innoculation in my view- the mandates are about exploiting our collective fears and turning them into irreversible state power. Some will say that sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I would say read Noam Chomsky for dozens of real life contemporary examples of that playing out..

We need better discourse on this issue- I am pro vaccine, pro science and absolutely anti mandate- but there are many stances on this spectrum, some more credible than others. I think many of the poster's original concerns are valid and most of the responses were ignorant, ill-informed and down right sarcastic and rude. A lot of really smart people ( not just Trumpers) draw exception to these policies, we should be asking ourselves why that is.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: shumatec1012 on Oct 29, 2021, 06:37 PM
Quote from: mdgsolo on Oct 29, 2021, 06:35 PM
Quote from: shumatec1012 on Oct 29, 2021, 05:25 PMI def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed


9 of 6?  That is a lot!



9 to 6 voted for boosters not being necessary- source: new york times- let me know if you need me to dig up the article.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: Bulldog on Dec 29, 2021, 07:21 PM
All, please know I am not trying to insinuate this will or should happen for OBH, but at the same time wanted everyone to be aware of changes to Playing in the Sand that came out today.

I for one was glad to see CID came to (or was forced) their senses on this as the 48 hours and a couple other things were rubbing folks wrong given the current state of the pandemic.

See below for the full memo

Playing in the Sand 2022 Update
New safety protocols and refund policies announced

Dead & Company looks forward to seeing you at Playing in the Sand January 7-10, 2022. Any package holders no longer interested in attending Playing in the Sand for either weekend may now request a refund by following the instructions below and submitting your refund request by 5pm ET on December 31, 2021.

CID Presents and Dead & Company strongly advise guests, if eligible, to be boosted against COVID-19 before traveling to Mexico
 

IMPORTANT UPDATES TO PLAYING IN THE SAND HEALTH & SAFETY PLANNING
CID Presents and Dead & Company have enacted the following measures to provide a safer experience for all:
•   All staff are required to wear KN95 masks at all times.
•   All guests will be required to wear masks in all indoor public spaces except while actively eating.
•   All CID Presents staff are fully vaccinated against COVID-19.
•   All Moon Palace staff who are guest-facing are fully vaccinated against COVID-19.
•   All CID Presents staff and Moon Palace staff are tested daily.
•   We are now accepting NAAT lab or technician-certified test results in place of pre-arrival PCR Tests as needed.
•   We highly encourage guests not to leave the resort throughout their Playing in the Sand vacation. Therefore, all CID Presents-hosted off-site adventures have been canceled and will be automatically refunded.
•   In the event a Playing in the Sand guest tests positive for COVID-19 either upon arrival antigen testing or prior to departure, an on-site quarantine room will be provided complimentary by CID Presents and Moon Palace until a negative test result is produced.
•   In the event that all on-site quarantine rooms are occupied, CID Presents will arrange for lodging at a nearby hotel and cover all associated transportation and lodging costs.
•   Guests who arrive in the Cancún area more than two days prior to event check-in and need assistance with obtaining a PCR test locally can visit our medical partner Protech at one of THESE locations. You will not be allowed to check into the event or resort until you have received your PCR test results.
•   We strongly advise against flying without a negative test result. Guests who get PCR tests via Protech Medical will experience at least a 6-8 hour wait for test results. Please use the code "RockOn" for a discounted rate of $85 per person per test.
•   New CDC Isolation and Quarantine Period guidance has been lowered from 10 days to 5 days for asymptomatic US Citizens. For the most up to date guidance, click here.
As a reminder, our required guest Health & Safety Policy is as follows:
Health & Safety Policy (Updated 12/29/21)
•   Guests must provide proof of full COVID-19 vaccination before departure for the event; AND
•   Guests must provide Negative COVID-19 PCR test or any NAAT lab or technician-certified test no more than two days prior to event check-in; AND
•   Guests must provide a negative antigen test administered at check-in; AND
•   Guests must provide an additional negative antigen test for departure from Mexico no more than 1 day before your flight home per CDC order.
Note: if you are unable to access a COVID-19 PCR test, NAAT lab or technician-certified test results will also be accepted.
 
For anyone eligible, a COVID-19 booster shot is strongly encouraged!
 

While we are confident that the policies and precautions in place will allow us to present a safe and enjoyable event, if you prefer to cancel your entire package for a full refund, you may do so by completing the form below by 5PM ET on Friday, December 31. Refund requests will not be accepted via phone or email. Refunds will be automatically issued to the card(s) used for each payment within 60-90 days. Additional action or follow up with our Guest Services team is not required once the form has been submitted.

Click Here to Submit for a Full Refund

Please Note: If you are requesting a refund and you previously signed a waiver and got the package transferred to you, a refund will be provided via mailed check. This is the only circumstance a refund will be provided via mailed check. Please complete the form if you wish to request a refund and a follow-up email will be sent in the coming weeks to collect your preferred shipping address.

No refunds will be provided after the deadline and by choosing not to be refunded you are opting to keep your original package purchased.

IMPORTANT: action must be taken by the primary lead guest, on behalf of their group.
 




Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: MMJCOBRA on Dec 29, 2021, 08:22 PM
 :beer:
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: Bulldog on Dec 29, 2021, 09:33 PM
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/dead-and-company-cancun-cancellation-refunds-1276662/
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: ericm on Dec 29, 2021, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on Dec 29, 2021, 09:33 PMhttps://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/dead-and-company-cancun-cancellation-refunds-1276662/

No doubt this is the right thing to do for the fans but why will it take 60-90 days for their money to be refunded? It's great people can opt out and not lose their dough and I guess waiting for it is better than not getting it back at all but 60-90 days seems out of line to me.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: Bulldog on Dec 29, 2021, 11:34 PM
Quote from: ericm on Dec 29, 2021, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on Dec 29, 2021, 09:33 PMhttps://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/dead-and-company-cancun-cancellation-refunds-1276662/

No doubt this is the right thing to do for the fans but why will it take 60-90 days for their money to be refunded? It's great people can opt out and not lose their dough and I guess waiting for it is better than not getting it back at all but 60-90 days seems out of line to me.

I tought the same thing, I am on the fence if I'll go (and have less than 48 hours to decide), but yeah holding my cash for another 60-90 is interesting.

That said, I'm happy as hell to at least have the choise, this was getting ugly with the 48 hour PCR testing requirment.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: ranyart on Dec 30, 2021, 11:09 AM
What a freaking mess!  I'm glad CID and D&C did the right thing by giving people the option to get a refund.  The 60 - 90 day deal is pretty outrageous though CID returned my money in a few days for the Denver cancellation.  I would love to hear what sort of BS they can come up with to justify the delay.

Hopefully all things viral will settle back down and OBH will hit a sweet spot and everything will be just fine.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: oistheone on Jan 05, 2022, 10:42 PM
The CID Dead event just announced that the show will go on despite the fact neither John Mayer or Bill Kreutzmann will be... playing in the band

What would it take for MMJ to cancel? Even if (ESPECIALLY IF) Bo tested positive prior to OBH and they moved forward with some ringer I'd be devastated.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: MOWJO8185 on Jan 06, 2022, 10:35 AM
Quote from: oistheone on Jan 05, 2022, 10:42 PMThe CID Dead event just announced that the show will go on despite the fact neither John Mayer or Bill Kreutzmann will be... playing in the band

What would it take for MMJ to cancel? Even if (ESPECIALLY IF) Bo tested positive prior to OBH and they moved forward with some ringer I'd be devastated.

I read on another forum that the venue isn't letting Dead & Co cancel - not sure if true.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: Trukel on Jan 06, 2022, 08:45 PM
Just read on Brooklyn Vegan that Playing in the Sand has been cancelled.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: oistheone on Jan 06, 2022, 09:41 PM
I am (incredibly selfishly) thankful that this craziness is happening during CID's first event of the season. They have a ton planned and this worst case scenario will set the precedent going forward.

Less worried about OBH now than ever. It's either getting canceled and we're refunded, or we're getting refunded AND comp'ed if they pull a Dead and cancel a day before.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: ranyart on Jan 08, 2022, 04:42 PM
Quote from: oistheone on Jan 06, 2022, 09:41 PMI am (incredibly selfishly) thankful that this craziness is happening during CID's first event of the season. They have a ton planned and this worst case scenario will set the precedent going forward.

Less worried about OBH now than ever. It's either getting canceled and we're refunded, or we're getting refunded AND comp'ed if they pull a Dead and cancel a day before.

I didn't realize CID is giving refunds and free stays for the people that did show up after passing on the opportunity to get a refund.  What a freaking mess!  Hopefully by the time OBH rolls around things have calmed back down again and it will go off without a hitch.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: consigliare on Jan 13, 2022, 01:11 PM
I have an idea for CID that will avoid all the BS about Covid and the "vaccines" and, barring ill-considered and illogical government mandates, will allow all wanting to go to OBH5 to be able to attend.

It is all very simple.

Just make it an entirely at your own risk event.

No "vaccine" or mask requirements.

Let people choose for themselves the manner in which they desire to protect themselves.

If some want to get "vaccinated" so be it.  If some do not, good for them.  It's not like the "vaccines" work as everyone was originally led to believe - they do not prevent one from getting Covid, they do not prevent transmission, and they do not prevent one from getting sick.

Additionally, given that the vaccines are not effective as originally propounded, have been shown to be pathogenic, and/or people have acquired natural immunity, it makes absolutely no sense to continue to require attendees to get an experimental "vaccine". 

Same with the damned masks - if some want to wear ineffective cloth or surgical masks, or more effective N95, or chemical masks, or even wear space suits along with oxygen tanks, let them do so as they see fit.  If some do not, just the same.   

If some want to take preventatives such as Ivermectin or HCQ along with other OTCs - which have been long used and proven to be safe and effective by the US, Japanese, and Indian governments along with the WHO - so be it.  In fact, I would think that most would consider such preventatives and protocols a few days before their departure in order to increase the likelihood that they will pass any required Covid tests, as well as reduce the likelihood of getting Covid at the event.

Just try to remember - all of these mandates to wear ineffective masks and/or mandates to get ineffective "vaccines" has all been for a virus having a greater than 99% survivability rate.

Or, they could just refund all those no longer desiring to attend and/or hook up people that no longer want to attend to transfer their package to those on the waiting list.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: walterfredo on Jan 13, 2022, 01:13 PM
"yawn"

Fuck all this "science" anyhow.

I like that you get your "facts" from Joe Rogan. He's a smart cookie.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: MOWJO8185 on Jan 13, 2022, 01:49 PM
Imagine not getting vaccinated, talking in black and white terms about whether the vaccines work 100% of the time and ignoring all sorts of data about the wayy higher occurrence of hospitalizations and deaths in unvaccinated people, and then moaning about why this is all still going on.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: consigliare on Jan 13, 2022, 03:33 PM
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

― Mark Twain
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: MOWJO8185 on Jan 13, 2022, 04:09 PM
Quote from: consigliare on Jan 13, 2022, 03:33 PM"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

― Mark Twain

Quote works both ways, chief. If you think there's a world of sheep out there who have been parroted false facts about the pandemic while you hold the truth and then go spouting talking points from Fox News and Joe Rogan then I don't know what to tell you.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: walterfredo on Jan 13, 2022, 04:35 PM
Quote from: consigliare on Jan 13, 2022, 03:33 PM"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

― Mark Twain

oh the irony
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: ericm on Jan 13, 2022, 05:18 PM
Quote from: walterfredo on Jan 13, 2022, 04:35 PM
Quote from: consigliare on Jan 13, 2022, 03:33 PM"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

― Mark Twain

oh the irony


:grin:
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: ranyart on Jan 13, 2022, 06:09 PM
Quote from: consigliare on Jan 13, 2022, 01:11 PMI have an idea for CID that will avoid all the BS about Covid and the "vaccines" and, barring ill-considered and illogical government mandates, will allow all wanting to go to OBH5 to be able to attend.

It is all very simple.

Just make it an entirely at your own risk event.

No "vaccine" or mask requirements.

Let people choose for themselves the manner in which they desire to protect themselves.

Fortunately CID appears to see beyond mere profits and actually tries to do the right things to keep people safe, at least sometimes when the situation forces their hand.  As much as we all want to see these shows - any shows - it can't lead to people literally dying from going.  And people aren't very good at protecting themselves when they don't know what the fark is going on and the situation is constantly evolving.  Perfect example is our history with HIV/AIDS.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: consigliare on Jan 14, 2022, 12:02 AM
Yes, thanks for the clarification all.

How foolish am I?

I guess Covid did, in fact, come from bat soup served in a Wuhan, China wet market, and not around the corner at the virology lab where they were conducting US funded gain of function genetic manipulation experiments on bat viruses.

Also, cloth and surgical masks, in fact, do prevent the spread of Covid and you can use them over and over.

The vaccines are, in fact, safe, and they do not cause an increased incidence in myocarditis, blood clots, or cause other vascular issues that can lead to longterm problems or death.

In fact, the vaccines are so safe that the manufacturers have waived their liability protections.

Also, the data from the longterm  vaccine trials all show that they are compltely safe and have not resulted in more deaths and adverse events than all other vaccines combined.

The vaccines are also effective, and you will not get sick or transmit Covid once you get vaccinated.

The vaccines are durable and long lasting, and boosters are not needed every 4-6 months.

Once you get vaxxed, you wont have to wear a mask.

Because immunity from the vaccines is so much better than natural immunity, you must get vaxxed in order to go to school, work, or other public venues.

Covid is so infectious, that people working from home must also be vaxxed to prevent transmission to their coworkers, or face geing fired.

Other than the vaccines, there are absolutely no other medicaments for preventing and treating Covid.

Thrre are fewer Covid deaths  now that the vaccines have been administered.

Additional boosters do not negatively affect immunity or the immune system and you can get as many as you like.

History and the moving of the goalposts during the Covid pandemic strongly suggests that if people continue to comply with their ever increasing demands, that things will go back to normal.

I mean, I get it and sincerely thank you for the clarification.  I now see my folly.

But, doesn't this 2 weeks seem kind of more like 2 years?


Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: Cameron on Jan 14, 2022, 09:17 AM
Tl;dr
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: walterfredo on Jan 14, 2022, 11:50 AM
@consigliare, curious...where did you earn your degree in Virology? Or was it in epidemiology? Because you seem to know so much.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: Mr. White on Jan 14, 2022, 02:30 PM
I'm not going to OBH (will never go due to lack of funds), but I thought I'd chime in with a little advice I just read in today's Louisville Courier-Journal newspaper in the Metro section.

As per Dr. Jon Klein - University of Louisville Kidney Specialist and Vice-Dean for research at the U of L Medical School:

"I'm a kidney doctor. I've studied how the kidneys make urine for 39 years. Do not, I repeat, do not drink urine to treat COVID. That is all."

Seems like some sound advice.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: consigliare on Jan 14, 2022, 04:55 PM
@Walter - Unfortunately for me, I have education, training, and experience in both the biological sciences and law, and have worked, and still work, in such fields for about 20 years now.

The unfortunate aspect is that, due to both, I question just about everything.

I readily admit that there much I do not know.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobRoy286 on Jan 17, 2022, 02:45 PM
jeeeeeeeeesus chriiiiiiiiiiist

Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: RobotRace on Jan 18, 2022, 02:03 PM
Quote from: consigliare on Jan 14, 2022, 04:55 PM@Walter - Unfortunately for me, I have education, training, and experience in both the biological sciences and law, and have worked, and still work, in such fields for about 20 years now.

The unfortunate aspect is that, due to both, I question just about everything.

I readily admit that there much I do not know.

Im a lawyer too, but I only take medical advice from people who have training in biological sciences AND who believe JFK jr is still alive.
Title: Re: OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms
Post by: iLikeBeer on Jan 19, 2022, 01:54 PM
@ consigliare I suppose you think the insurrection on 1/6/21 was a false flag started by FBI and CIA operatives???  And celebrities are gathering in the basement of a DC Pizza joint harvesting the blood of young children to feed their adrenochrome addictions?!?! :cheesy:

Is this you?
(https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/newscms/2021_10/3447876/210205-jacob-chansley-mc-1142.JPG)