"Fixed Game" - Ticket Scalping

Started by Mr. White, Jan 28, 2016, 08:28 PM

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Mr. White

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/when-it-comes-hot-concert-tickets-fix-n-y-ag-n505821

When It Comes to Hot Concert Tickets, The Fix Is In, N.Y. AG Says
by REUTERS

New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman says tickets for most in-demand events is a "fixed game" in a report that brings out glaring irregularities in the ticketing industry. On an average, only about 46 percent of tickets for events are reserved for the public, said the report released Thursday, which analyzed data from Live Nation and AEG on top-grossing shows in New York during 2012 to 2015.

Ticket bots, an illegal software program that automates the process of searching for and buying tickets to events on ticket vendor platforms, were used by brokers to purchase large volumes of tickets, which were later marked up sometimes by more than 1,000 percent to yield easy profits, the attorney general said.

Investigations have identified the brokers reselling the most tickets for New York events, it said. Nearly all the brokers were unlicensed, and several had employed illegal ticket bots to buy tickets, according to the report. The ticket bot menace was highlighted further by Schneiderman, citing an example where 15,087 tickets were bought by two ticket bots on Dec. 8, 2014 for 20 concerts of the band U2, in the same tour across North America.

The report also drew attention to the increasing imposition of resale price floors, which fixes the bottom line for ticket prices, and also the efforts to have tickets sold in a single "walled garden" market, as opposed to consumers having the option of buying these tickets from various resale platforms.

Among other things, the report recommended increased regulation of the ticketing industry, such as brokers providing their New York license numbers as a condition of using resale platforms, promoters disclosing number of seats held and finding technological solutions to address ticket bots.

It further urged legislative action to implement reforms, such as ending the ban on non-transferable paperless tickets, imposing criminal penalties for ticket bot use and capping permissible resale markups, in addition to its outlined recommendations.

In what appears to be a separate probe, CNBC said in a tweet that the attorney general's office is conducting an antitrust investigation of the National Football League and its price-floor practices on tickets.
Kentuckians For The Commonwealth (KFTC) Member Since 2011

oistheone

Man, I gotta get me one of those ticket bots.

Seriously though, ticket-buying for high-profile shows has become so frustrating. Scalpers buying up a shitload of tickets is the least of the problems, in my eyes. My issue is with LiveNation holding back over 50% of the tickets to reap the profits of the secondary markets themselves, and then parading around like it's an even playing field. In some cases, I wouldn't be surprised if this number of held back tickets approaches 75%.

Unfortunately for fans, it's pay up or shut up. If I get shut out of Pearl Jam today (extremely likely, due to Ticketmaster putting EVERY SINGLE PJ SHOW on sale at the same goddamn time, thus flooding their servers) I'll inevitably have to cave and grab a ticket on the secondary market. I'm not going to pass up a sweet show just because there are no tickets available at the (mostly bogus) original ticket price. The question Live Nation has gotta be asking is -- just how much profit can they make. How high can these ticket prices go before people stop buying?

kholl44

Look at the NFL (and sports in general)- they are getting all sorts of bad publicity surrounding concussions and player conduct, but ticket and merchandise prices keep going through the roof. The higher prices are, the more "in-demand" customers view the event as, and the vicious cycle continues...
I'm in love with this soul; it's a meaning that I understand

ditty

Quote from: oistheone on Jan 29, 2016, 10:31 AM
Man, I gotta get me one of those ticket bots.

Seriously though, ticket-buying for high-profile shows has become so frustrating. Scalpers buying up a shitload of tickets is the least of the problems, in my eyes. My issue is with LiveNation holding back over 50% of the tickets to reap the profits of the secondary markets themselves, and then parading around like it's an even playing field. In some cases, I wouldn't be surprised if this number of held back tickets approaches 75%.

Unfortunately for fans, it's pay up or shut up. If I get shut out of Pearl Jam today (extremely likely, due to Ticketmaster putting EVERY SINGLE PJ SHOW on sale at the same goddamn time, thus flooding their servers) I'll inevitably have to cave and grab a ticket on the secondary market. I'm not going to pass up a sweet show just because there are no tickets available at the (mostly bogus) original ticket price. The question Live Nation has gotta be asking is -- just how much profit can they make. How high can these ticket prices go before people stop buying?

https://www.google.com/#q=ticket+bot+software

It's sad for us, how easy it is to get this software...for the right price
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oistheone

Quote from: ditty on Jan 30, 2016, 11:39 AM
Quote from: oistheone on Jan 29, 2016, 10:31 AM
Man, I gotta get me one of those ticket bots.

Seriously though, ticket-buying for high-profile shows has become so frustrating. Scalpers buying up a shitload of tickets is the least of the problems, in my eyes. My issue is with LiveNation holding back over 50% of the tickets to reap the profits of the secondary markets themselves, and then parading around like it's an even playing field. In some cases, I wouldn't be surprised if this number of held back tickets approaches 75%.

Unfortunately for fans, it's pay up or shut up. If I get shut out of Pearl Jam today (extremely likely, due to Ticketmaster putting EVERY SINGLE PJ SHOW on sale at the same goddamn time, thus flooding their servers) I'll inevitably have to cave and grab a ticket on the secondary market. I'm not going to pass up a sweet show just because there are no tickets available at the (mostly bogus) original ticket price. The question Live Nation has gotta be asking is -- just how much profit can they make. How high can these ticket prices go before people stop buying?

https://www.google.com/#q=ticket+bot+software

It's sad for us, how easy it is to get this software...for the right price

Holy shit, I thought you'd have to meet some shady computer engineer in an underground parking garage. Two clicks and $1000 and I could have my very own ticket bot. Seems like a lot of money but when you consider the cash these scalpers are bringing in, I bet the bot pays for itself within a month.

oistheone

I've NEVER had issues getting tickets when shows are "credit card entry only". I understand the lack of transferability issue, but to get tickets in the hands of fans, this is the best way, in my eyes.

While PJ keeping their ticket prices equal and relatively low is a noble move, all this does is give the scalpers more profits.

ericm

Quote from: oistheone on Jan 30, 2016, 12:37 PM
I've NEVER had issues getting tickets when shows are "credit card entry only". I understand the lack of transferability issue, but to get tickets in the hands of fans, this is the best way, in my eyes.

While PJ keeping their ticket prices equal and relatively low is a noble move, all this does is give the scalpers more profits.

Not trying to be an ass but have you ever tried for Springsteen tix? The paperless/CC entry hasn't made the process any easier and scalpers still get their hands on these prime tix. Look at today's sale for Dallas. 8 tix in a paperless section, row A, (some of the best seats in the house) are now on Stubhub for almost $2,000 a pop!

CC entry isn't the fix all TM and others hoped it would be. Scalpers can and do still get and sell these. Pretty simple too. One way is to purchase with a prepaid CC, and mail or give that to the buyer instead of the "hard ticket" itself, and another is to just walk them up to the doors. Swipe the CC used at purchase and have the buyer walk in while the scalper goes back to the lot to meet another buyer.

I've seen it done many times, and until the venues enforce TM's policy of needing an ID to match the CC used at purchase, it will continue to be done. Most venues don't ask for ID and why should they? It's not their policy and does them no good. It only slows down the entry process, makes more work for their employees, and they want people inside ASAP to buy those $10 and up beers.
"Where's Jim going?"

oistheone

Very true. For mega-high-demand shows, even CC entry comes with its challenges. Granted, Springsteen pit tickets aren't CC only (at least for the Toronto show I'm going to) and I have no idea why. 

THAT'S IT -- who wants to go in on an official MMJ board ticket bot?!?

ericm

Quote from: oistheone on Jan 30, 2016, 01:13 PM
Very true. For mega-high-demand shows, even CC entry comes with its challenges. Granted, Springsteen pit tickets aren't CC only (at least for the Toronto show I'm going to) and I have no idea why. 

THAT'S IT -- who wants to go in on an official MMJ board ticket bot?!?

They're hard tix for a couple of reasons. One is because he has a random lottery for pit entry, it's not first come first served. You have to show up between 2:00-5:00 show your ticket, and get a numbered wristband. Those tix aren't scanned because you don't enter the venue at that time and they're just marked so people can't try for multiple wristbands. CC entry would put the kabosh on this.

Another reason why they're hard tix is so people don't run off multiple copies of their print at home tix again for getting multiple wristbands.

Bruce only makes the prime lowers (sections closest to the stage) paperless/CC entry. It helps to limit scalping a little but it's far from fool proof. It is a pain for the true fan though if they end up not being able to make the show. He doesn't allow them to be transferred so it's a bit like our RC tix here in that sense.

"Where's Jim going?"

Mr. White

https://www.change.org/p/congress-pass-legislation-making-ticket-scalper-bots-illegal

Urge Congress To Pass The BOTS Act, Making Scalper Bots Illegal

"Any fan of a popular band has likely fallen victim to a scalper bot -- a computer program that ticket scalpers use to buy tickets faster than actual humans can. It's estimated that 60% of tickets are purchased by bots! Scalpers then sell those tickets online for ridiculous prices.

These bots are often the reason that the tickets you tried to buy instantly sold out but if you went to a secondary ticket site you'd find plenty of them available -- being sold at 100-500% above the original price. That $75 ticket is now $150-$375+ (plus the service charges).

Because there's no federal law to stop these bots, many people just fork up the extra cash or completely give up. This is a broken system.

Fortunately, we can change this. After thousands of Paul McCartney and Rolling Stones tickets in New York were bought up by scalper bots and resold for absurd prices (like $8,000!), Sen. Charles Schumer and Rep. Marsha Blackburn are working to pass The Better Online Ticket Sales Act, legislation that would prohibit the use of bots and make selling any ticket knowingly purchased by a bot punishable with a fine of $1,000 per ticket. [Read the bill here]

As live music fans, this bill is common sense to us.

Please sign our petition asking Congress to make the use of scalper bots illegal so that we all have a fair chance to see the concerts we want!"
Kentuckians For The Commonwealth (KFTC) Member Since 2011

ruralt

my mom is a huge adele fan, and i thought the best christmas gift in the world would be to buy her a ticket to an adele show on her upcoming tour.

familiar with the difficulties of buying mmj tickets, i thought the stress of getting tickets to an adele show would be no sweat, but i was dead wrong. and after i failed to get in on the pre-sale, the tickets on stubhub were just astounding. floor seats for most shows command well over $1,000.

it's really disgusting but i imagine most acts don't have any control over it. and the venue doesn't care as long as they get paid.

something needs to be done about it, though, and looking through this thread, it seems legislation is the only way to take care of it.

father john misty went through some site last year for a show(s) in los angeles, i think. the site buys a lot of tickets, and then sells them at face value to customers. something like that. i think something like that's a good idea, but we shouldn't have to resort to such tactics. no asshole should be able to make a living using software to mass-purchase tickets and sell them at grossly inflated prices. yeah, i know, if people are willing to pay that, that only ensures it will continue. as long as demand meets supply, etc. but there's something so inherently wrong about it all. it should be illegal, especially if the band doesn't see any sort of extra profit from the prices scalpers command.