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OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms

Started by consigliare, Oct 27, 2021, 12:58 PM

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crooney


shumatec1012



I def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed that boosters are not needed for people under 65 without preexisting conditions, and what did the head advisor do, override it. the experts on that panel say that they were basically given the outcome and then told to find the science to support it. The relationship between government and corporations ( big pharma) is too entwined in this nation to blindly trust either of these parties, let alone blindly go along with a mandate that literally requires compliance in what can often be shotty science in order to earn a living ( fuck concerts- that's not what is at stake here..)

Covid is NOT a hoax- i am not an anti-vaxer please do not diminish my argument.

No government control that is granted has EVER been taken away once the threat is gone, you only need to look back to the Patriot Act to see that. Vaccine mandates and passports as we see in Euroupe, once established will be forever. I worry that this is not worth it. We just had Donald Trump as president, and likely in 3 years will have another republican in office. What are they going to mandate? The booster approval shows that medical expertise is often at the whim of political and corporate pressure.

RobRoy286

Quote from: shumatec1012 on Oct 29, 2021, 05:25 PMI def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed that boosters are not needed for people under 65 without preexisting conditions, and what did the head advisor do, override it. the experts on that panel say that they were basically given the outcome and then told to find the science to support it. The relationship between government and corporations ( big pharma) is too entwined in this nation to blindly trust either of these parties, let alone blindly go along with a mandate that literally requires compliance in what can often be shotty science in order to earn a living ( fuck concerts- that's not what is at stake here..)

Covid is NOT a hoax- i am not an anti-vaxer please do not diminish my argument.

No government control that is granted has EVER been taken away once the threat is gone, you only need to look back to the Patriot Act to see that. Vaccine mandates and passports as we see in Euroupe, once established will be forever. I worry that this is not worth it. We just had Donald Trump as president, and likely in 3 years will have another republican in office. What are they going to mandate? The booster approval shows that medical expertise is often at the whim of political and corporate pressure.
I gotcha man. I don't think you're an idiot, nor do I automatically assume anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot. The OP certainly presented himself as one though, with the whacky shit he said. I get it that people are frustrated - I certainly could've dialed down the profanity and aggression. I will say though, it's unfair to say that government control has NEVER been reversed, and then say you *only* need to look at one example. There were mask mandates and closures for the Spanish Flu pandemic, and those eventually were phased out. Maybe I'm misunderstand where you're coming from. There's plenty of realism to what you are saying. And I don't mean to put words in your mouth and claim you think mask mandates are the same as vaccine requirements (I certainly weigh those two differently), but LOTS of people think it's all the same and that even wearing a mask is oppression.
 I...I don't know. I guess I trust the medical community more than others. I guess I'm a sheep.

Bahh.

ranyart


RobRoy286

Quote from: ranyart on Oct 29, 2021, 06:15 PM

Probably my favorite on Animals  :headphones:
Ooh it's been a while, might have to spin that album now as an opener for tonight's live stream  :beer:

mdgsolo

Quote from: shumatec1012 on Oct 29, 2021, 05:25 PMI def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed


9 of 6?  That is a lot!


shumatec1012

Quote from: RobRoy286 on Oct 29, 2021, 06:04 PM
Quote from: shumatec1012 on Oct 29, 2021, 05:25 PMI def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed that boosters are not needed for people under 65 without preexisting conditions, and what did the head advisor do, override it. the experts on that panel say that they were basically given the outcome and then told to find the science to support it. The relationship between government and corporations ( big pharma) is too entwined in this nation to blindly trust either of these parties, let alone blindly go along with a mandate that literally requires compliance in what can often be shotty science in order to earn a living ( fuck concerts- that's not what is at stake here..)

Covid is NOT a hoax- i am not an anti-vaxer please do not diminish my argument.

No government control that is granted has EVER been taken away once the threat is gone, you only need to look back to the Patriot Act to see that. Vaccine mandates and passports as we see in Euroupe, once established will be forever. I worry that this is not worth it. We just had Donald Trump as president, and likely in 3 years will have another republican in office. What are they going to mandate? The booster approval shows that medical expertise is often at the whim of political and corporate pressure.
I gotcha man. I don't think you're an idiot, nor do I automatically assume anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot. The OP certainly presented himself as one though, with the whacky shit he said. I get it that people are frustrated - I certainly could've dialed down the profanity and aggression. I will say though, it's unfair to say that government control has NEVER been reversed, and then say you *only* need to look at one example. There were mask mandates and closures for the Spanish Flu pandemic, and those eventually were phased out. Maybe I'm misunderstand where you're coming from. There's plenty of realism to what you are saying. And I don't mean to put words in your mouth and claim you think mask mandates are the same as vaccine requirements (I certainly weigh those two differently), but LOTS of people think it's all the same and that even wearing a mask is oppression.
 I...I don't know. I guess I trust the medical community more than others. I guess I'm a sheep.

Bahh.

I don't think you're a sheep and I appreciate your genuine comment. Truth is, that that trust in the medical community is a leap of faith in some regards. I respect another's faith until they tell me I'm an idiot for not sharing it with them. haha

I def think everyone should get vaccinated and I tell everyone I know to go out and do just that. But for those who have problems trusting these institutions ( for MANY good reasons) forcing them to do so by penalty of losing their livelihood isn't the most convincing way. Italy has one of the strongest mandate polcies ( even boosters are mandated) and they have over 80% of the population vaccinated- this isn't soley about innoculation in my view- the mandates are about exploiting our collective fears and turning them into irreversible state power. Some will say that sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I would say read Noam Chomsky for dozens of real life contemporary examples of that playing out..

We need better discourse on this issue- I am pro vaccine, pro science and absolutely anti mandate- but there are many stances on this spectrum, some more credible than others. I think many of the poster's original concerns are valid and most of the responses were ignorant, ill-informed and down right sarcastic and rude. A lot of really smart people ( not just Trumpers) draw exception to these policies, we should be asking ourselves why that is.

shumatec1012

Quote from: mdgsolo on Oct 29, 2021, 06:35 PM
Quote from: shumatec1012 on Oct 29, 2021, 05:25 PMI def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed


9 of 6?  That is a lot!



9 to 6 voted for boosters not being necessary- source: new york times- let me know if you need me to dig up the article.