Debate: Why I Am Against The Death Penalty

[TheLink]

this is such a tough topic.  it is obvoiusly very hipocritical to be for the death penalty and call yourself a christian.  i don't think any human should kill.  and, how the hell do the people who put people to death sleep at night.  yikes.  however, i would want a jury to seriously consider my threat to society if i were to kill someone who say raped and murdered my child.  the problem is that people don't think enough.  simple solutions for simple people.  

[TheLink]

life sentence is fine, but prisons have become way too nice. >:(

[dragonboy]

Do you know that for a fact? Have you spent time in one?
That's a serious question - I'm not being rude or sarcastic.
I can't imagine prison being very nice at all...

[TheLink]

well, i never said it was nice.  i said it was too nice for violent criminals.  getting a college education, having cable tv, and other perks just seem like the problem to me.  most conservatives are for the death penalty so we do not have to support these people.  so, they are choosing to terminate someone's life to save money.  it seems a bit silly to me.  do you think prisons are tough enough based on what you know about them?

i am against killing, thus against the death penalty.   i do not want society making that kind of choice for me.  i don't want them tellingme who can have an abortion and who cannot either.

[Georgia_Peach]

Miss Shores I highly recommend you read this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743483456/104-2202570-7481551?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance
They made a tv movie too under a different title, I think.

[Golden_Shores]

Miss Shores I highly recommend you read this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743483456/104-2202570-7481551?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance
They made a tv movie too under a different title, I think.

It's on my short list.  THANK YOU.  Always searching for a great book.

[Golden_Shores]

Prison is not too nice.  Prison is a place where you're always watching your back.  It sounds nice... three square meals a day, gym, television, library, education.  But everything that comes along with that... beatings, rape, emotional abuse, never being able to relax, being away from every single person you love for years, certainly makes those minor luxuries much less enjoyable.  

Having the death penalty is MORE EXPENSIVE than a life sentence.  Not to mention, if a person is mistakenly convicted, there is no turning back from killing them.  We're one of an extremely small number of countries that still uses the death penalty.  Our "civilized society" is not so civilized when it comes to dealing with crime.

Also, part of the reason there are things like opportunities to get an education is so that when people get out of prison, they have some skills to use.  If they are no better a person when they get out than when they were put in, what do you think they're going to do differently??        

[TheLink]

that sounds great!  let's give all violent criminals, that have no chance of being rehabilitated a college education.  does that make any sense?  sure, prison isn't the fuckin Ritz Carlton, but it shouldn't be for people who rape and murder.  hey, I am a pretty liberal guy, but let's have some common sense.  if we make prison reflect why you were sent there in the first place, maybe we don't stop violent crime, but we sure do show some better principles.

[Golden_Shores]

Not everyone in prison is a rapist or a murderer.  There are people sent to pretty bad prisons for a whole lot less.  And how do we know if people can or cannot be rehabilitated?  Is every prisoner doomed to a life of crime?  Personally, I'd say yank out the televisions, give prisoners newspapers if they really want to know what's happening in the world, but keep the education.  I'd rather know my tax dollars are going to helping someone learn than being used to appeal a death sentence.  

I don't think having common sense has anything to do with whether or not I agree with educating prisoners.  Education empowers people.  And maybe, just maybe, if a prisoner is empowered by learning he will try harder to make an honest living when he gets back into the real world.  And don't you think that prisoners have to earn the privilege to take classes?  It's not like some violent person who keeps acting out on other prisoners just magically gets to hang out at the gym and read books all day.

Oh, and more than half the time, these people are looking to get a GED.  Not a college education.      

[TheLink]

we are discussing the death penalty compared to a life sentence.  my argument is that if prisons were tougher on the violent criminals, convicted of their crimes, often times more than once, people would not be so for the death penalty.  being completely against it, i am trting to fins a good reason to convince these types of people, who strongly believe in their principles, that killing is wrong and that the punishment is strong enough.  to me, that is common sense as we cannot be complete bleeding hearts all the time even though we want to be.  in such a diverse society of morals and ideals, we must try and find common ground to make things as right as they possibly can be. peace. ;)

[Half]

i say...send them to the hate furnace

[Golden_Shores]

we are discussing the death penalty compared to a life sentence.  my argument is that if prisons were tougher on the violent criminals, convicted of their crimes, often times more than once, people would not be so for the death penalty.  being completely against it, i am trting to fins a good reason to convince these types of people, who strongly believe in their principles, that killing is wrong and that the punishment is strong enough.  to me, that is common sense as we cannot be complete bleeding hearts all the time even though we want to be.  in such a diverse society of morals and ideals, we must try and find common ground to make things as right as they possibly can be. peace. ;)

And my argument is that if the violent criminal who would normally be sentenced to death is too violent for an education, he will not earn the privilege to obtain that education in prison.  Prison is no cake walk and anyone that thinks it is should spend a week there.  But to think making the prison a dump will make anything better, inside or outside the prison, is in my very humble opinion, a bit foolish.  We've tried having prisons that were hell holes.  It did nothing.  Why not work towards a more positive prisoner??  At the very least, it makes the lives of the guards who must endure these people a bit less difficult if the prisoners are treated less like caged animals and more like human beings that made mistakes.  Because I believe most (not all) criminals are products of their environment.  Is that an excuse for being violent?  No.  But change their environment to one that has the potential, if you earn the privilege to enjoy it with good behavior, and see what happens.  

I agree.  Ritz-Carlton is the last thing these people deserve.  But I think "the system" is trying to figure out just where the balance between punishment and opportunity for change lies.  

[TheLink]

i agree with you.  but, maybe we should spend more money on changing the enviornment so they do not become criminals instead of mkaing their lives better and positive in prison after it is too late.  i don't know, i am just glad i am so normal!  peace. ;D

[Golden_Shores]

i agree with you.  but, maybe we should spend more money on changing the enviornment so they do not become criminals instead of mkaing their lives better and positive in prison after it is too late.  i don't know, i am just glad i am so normal!  peace. ;D

Well, one would think that goes without saying but you're right.    

I'm glad you're normal too.

[dogandponyshow]

What about criminals that kills kids?.....Obviously, this is very opinionated topic and we have all different views.  I am one that thinks it should cases by case.  If a criminal kills kids I am for it.  And  what about guys like Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer, The Green River Killer....these guys killed multiple people and we should spare their life.  Think of all the families they destroyed.  What is your basis for sparing these guys exactly what they did to these people that did not do a thing except getting their life and family taking away from them.  

D.

[Golden_Shores]

Have you ever heard of confessing to something you didn't do?  I'd love to do lots of things to these monsters.  You make it seem as though people who are against the death penalty are disagreeing with the fact that these people are disgusting wastes of life.  As though what they did was acceptable somehow because I'd rather they rot in jail than be given a merciful injection.  That's just not so.  My argument is that if the death penalty is allowed, not only are the evil ones put to death, but so are the falsely accused.  What about THOSE families?  The ones whos fathers are put to death for something they didn't even do and even worse, the state SANCTIONED it!    

Jeffrey Dahlmer was beaten to death by the other prisoners.  Is that poetic justice?  Can the families sleep better now knowing he "got what he deserved"?  At the end of the day, Jeffrey Dahlmer drugged, killed and ate their loved ones and nothing will change that.  Not even his death.

[dogandponyshow]

There is no doubt there are are circumstances where people are executed that should not be....no doubt.  Again, that is why is needs to be case by case. I do hear what you saying.  What is your opinion about people that kill kids?  The Green River killed over thirty people and you think his life should be saved.  I don't. Do you think that he should be kept alive baesd on what he did and if so why? He admitted to killing all these people.  In terms of will families may think that he got what he deserved, there in way to know that.  Maybe the do and maybe they don't.  Of course I have heard of people confessing to crimes they didn't commit and that is a horrbile thing and I wish that that would never happen.  And yes, that is a bad thing when those families lose someone that is innocent.  One more time, case by case.  Clearly, there is no easy answer.  And the term rotting in jail, I think that they would rather rot in jail then die.  They get to eat, sleep, communicate, have friends, read, internet, etc.  The people that they killed don't.  

D.

[Golden_Shores]

I'm not saying any murder's life should be spared.  As I mentioned earlier, if humans were infallible, I'd be all for the death penalty.  The problem is, the "case by case" basis is done in court.  A jury of one's peers decides if a person should be convicted and sentenced to death.  It doesn't always pan out the way it should (which is a subjective notion) because people's bias, prejudice, and ignorance can cloud what is supposed to be clear thinking.  My belief is that I would rather an innocent life be spared and allow the evil to die naturally than a milliion guilty lives be taken with the hopes that we get it right every time.  If you read the article that prompted this thread, you'll see that there are innocent people sitting on death row as we speak.  Somebody at one time was certain that person was enough of a monster to sentence them to die.  Beyond a shadow of a doubt... well.  Sort of.

[Alligator Gar]

I don't think anyone should die, ever.

[TheLink]

it certainly is hard to tell someone that loses a child to a horrible murder that the person supposedly responsible has a right to live.  but, i think that they do.  i am not against the death penalty because of the innocent people on death row, i feel sorry for innocent people in prison as well.  to me, killing is wrong, unless it is obvious self defense.  and even then, i would have trouble with it if i had to kill to stay alive.  even in war it is hard to justify, but most would argue it is self defense.  that is another tough one to tackle.   iraq, self defense?  yikes, that is what we were told at least.  good luck figuring it out folks. ;)