the real reasons for war

[ratsprayer]

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/akleh.htm

this is why we'll be at war with iran by month's end and the real reason we went in to iraq.  discuss...

[saki]

wow!  That's an incredibly good article.  Haven't read anything like that but I've always had my suspicions that something like that was true.  

It really pisses me off.  I just think all this war is about is, as the article points to, economic gain.  And, that's just fucking ridiculous.  It all makes me think that this whole economic war started a long time ago with other presidents and now we're just seeing how we fucked up by outsourcing all the mundane jobs to third world countries.  

Unfortunately, for me there's nothing to discuss because I believe the article and I just think it's sad.  I would rather argue something like: why does human kind have to be so greedy?  Why do people think that acquiring wealth will ever really make them happy?  

But, that discussion will probably have no end... :-[

thanks for the article though :)

[Chills]

America has resorted to instigating and encouraging its military bastard, Israel, to strike the Iranian nuclear reactors the way it did to Iraq's. Leaked reports had revealed that Israeli forces are training for such an attack, expected to take place next June.

Seriously?
I'm not saying it's not possible, but where is that guy getting his information? Anybody else heard about these leaked reports?
I hope it's not true, it's an explosive situation out there so you'd better be sure if you're making these kind of allegations.


Iran would retaliate aggressively, which may lead to the destabilization of the whole region including Israel, the Gulf States, Iraq and even Afghanistan.

That seems pretty obvious.
Not to mention new threats to the USA and other countries supportive of such an attack.

The question now is what would the American administration do? Would it invade Iran as it did Iraq? The American troops are knee-deep in the Iraqi swamp. The global community — except for Britain and Italy — is not offering any military relief to the US. Thus an American strike against Iran is very unlikely

Attacking Iran via Israel seems as unlikely to me.
It'll be kind of clear America would have to be the supporting power behind such an attack.
Maybe it was the original plan to invade Iran but I guess they'll need to clear up the fucked up situation in Iraq (as good as possible) before making any other moves, even via Israel.

[Angry Ewok]

America has resorted to instigating and encouraging its military bastard, Israel, to strike the Iranian nuclear reactors the way it did to Iraq's. Leaked reports had revealed that Israeli forces are training for such an attack, expected to take place next June.

I think it's much more likely that Israel is training to defend itself against such an attack made by Pakistan/Iran. Remember when Iraq shot off 40-or-so SCUD's at Israel, in response to America's invasion during Desert Storm?

It seems like that corner of the world is pretty much hell bent on whiping out the Jews... and America has always been the bad guy simply for standing at their side.

Found this link from that article,

... Israeli security sources said that the operation is aimed at tackling Iran's most advanced Shahab-3 missiles, which they say could reach anywhere inside Israel.

Because the entire world knows, based on Iran's threats to whipe us and Israel out, that their nuclear program is not for the generation of electric power.

[ratsprayer]

I think it's much more likely that Israel is training to defend itself against such an attack made by Pakistan/Iran. Remember when Iraq shot off 40-or-so SCUD's at Israel, in response to America's invasion during Desert Storm?

It seems like that corner of the world is pretty much hell bent on whiping out the Jews... and America has always been the bad guy simply for standing at their side.

Found this link from that article,


Because the entire world knows, based on Iran's threats to whipe us and Israel out, that their nuclear program is not for the generation of electric power.

wow, i couldnt disagree with you more, but such is life.  ok everyone when i posted this article and titled the thread, i should have made it ratsprayer's opinions for the real reasons for war.  basically after my own reading of newspapers, internet blogs, watching mainstream media., history books, blah blah blah, i found an article which i felt displayed MY opinion of what I think is going on.  it's hard to speculate on a lot of things, but here are facts.  just before we attacked iraq, saddam was planning to move oil trading currency to the euro?  was that why we attacked?  hard to say, but the leader of iran is very close to doing the same thing, and here we are gung ho about going over there?  coincedence??  becoming less likely.  fact is, i cant say iran is doing itself any favours at all.  it actually is being very cooperative in letting inspectors come in to and examine the nuclear facility.  those are the facts.

the rest is mainly my opinion about things...

i dont think the imflammatory remarks about israel are helping their cause because its not being listened to with open ears.  i am certainly not a holocaust denier at all, never would claim that, but i have questions, and thats a big difference.  the leader of iran is simply putting out the need (albeit in a bitter tone) to call a broad minded panel to discuss the holocaust in a logical way.  i dont really know what to believe about the figures of how many died and all that, but what i do have a problem with is how it cant be questioned at all.  heres the perfect opportunity for the discussion to be open and shut.  prove iran wrong, shove it down their fucking throats if theyre wrong.  this will end the debate once and for all, but it wont happen.  instead, people will be jailed for merely questioning and labeled anti-semites.  like i said, the tactics are strange, but those are the motives.  i certainly believe this is a power plant being built because nothing has been found otherwise.  remember when the same was said about iraq?  have we ever found anything there?  fool me once.... our government is using the same exact lie, and its surprising how many people are falling for it again.  i will say that i dont think iran is being completely open and honest about what weapons they have, but i think theyre smart enough to never use them against us.  think about this, these countries are not fucking stupid enough to attack us knowing what the consequences will be.  we could turn the country of iran in to a green glass parking lot, they know it, and we know it.  what reason would they have to attack us?  none!  think about who gains from constant war, shrinking personal freedoms, soaring prices of energy?  is it the citizens of the countries that are getting bombed daily?  it's the leaders of the countries that lie us in to wars and send our kids to die for it.  im not trying to change anyones mind, and i welcome debate.   my beliefs and opinions are not set in stone.  at the current time, im comfortable with what i believe.  ive said that before, but it doesnt mean ill never ever ever change my mind about things.  thats a big difference.  its a good thing to be confident in what you believe.  its only arrogance if youre so confident you say youll never change my mind.  

[Angry Ewok]

It's more fun if we disagree, so long as someone else doesn't jump in and start making personal attacks... that's when I hit the road.

I actually didn't mean to twist this into a discussion about the Middle Easts general hatred for the Jews... and I wasn't suggesting that the War on Iraq had anything to do with that, but now that we're here...

i dont think the imflammatory remarks about israel are helping their cause because its not being listened to with open ears.  i am certainly not a holocaust denier at all, never would claim that, but i have questions, and thats a big difference.  the leader of iran is simply putting out the need (albeit in a bitter tone) to call a broad minded panel to discuss the holocaust in a logical way.  i dont really know what to believe about the figures of how many died and all that, but what i do have a problem with is how it cant be questioned at all.  

There's a difference between "calling for a broad minded panel to discuss the holocaust in a logical way" and outright saying that it is a myth projected by the Zionist-ruled West. The way these guys talk about Jews, and how they should be whiped off of the face of the earth, is more than just inflammatory - it's actually a crime in many countries.

i will say that i dont think iran is being completely open and honest about what weapons they have, but i think theyre smart enough to never use them against us.

I doubt a division of Iran Marines are going to spill into our mainland from UAE ports, or anything like that - but the fact is this, in my opinion - Iran has the capability to whipe Israel out... and they say that Israel should be whiped out. They encourage Pakistan to attack Isreal, so who is to say Iran won't share some of the big bombs love with Pakistan?

think about who gains from constant war, shrinking personal freedoms, soaring prices of energy?  is it the citizens of the countries that are getting bombed daily?  it's the leaders of the countries that lie us in to wars and send our kids to die for it.

Dr. HST taught me something at a young age - always look at these things with the first question being, "Who stands to benefit from this..."

I don't think the US is going to fuck with Iran anytime soon, because I look at things from this perspective - this is all about oil, it's all about cash, and our politicians may find it unfortunate to say that Iran will probably be dry long before the US gives up martial law over Iraq.