The Economy

[Crispy]

Doh - simulpost! Preview is your friend

[purvis9876]

A mixture of borrowing from China and printing entirely new currency. Which still, like all of our money today, is backed by nothing except fairy dust and happy thoughts. :(

[capt. scotty]

Hmmm...well, the DJ was +485 today, so Im wondering about all these analysts and citizens ready to bear arms yesterday

I think it was good the initial bailout was vetoed, bc I think they can def come up with a better plan.

Im pretty sure something is going to happen in the next few weeks, and I think they come up with a much better plan/bill (mortgage cuts, etc..sorry VC - I dont think youll receive a check for 4 G's)

[ycartrob]

Cue Uncle Lou!

Lou Dobbs: Hooray for those who defeated bailout
   
NEW YORK (CNN) -- CNN's Lou Dobbs is no fan of the $700 billion bailout plan that went down to defeat in the U.S. House of Representatives on Monday. He spoke with Kiran Chetry of CNN's "American Morning" on Tuesday about how he thinks there are better ways to solve the financial problems plaguing the U.S. economy.

Lou Dobbs: Americans "don't want to hear this nonsense about $700 billion to bail out financial institutions."

Kiran Chetry, CNN anchor: CNN's Lou Dobbs joins us this morning from Suffolk, New Jersey. You expressed delight I guess you could say, at the fact that it did go down yesterday in defeat. We saw the largest point-drop on Wall Street ever.

What happens now?

Lou Dobbs, CNN host of "Lou Dobbs Tonight": Well, what happens now is that it sounds like the same fools who brought you this effort are going to try again.

Henry Paulson saying he's going to come right back, suggests he's not learning. And he's not paying attention to the Congress. These Congress people are all at home in their home districts, nearly every one of them and they're hearing an earful. The American people don't want to hear this nonsense about $700 billion to bail out financial institutions. Frankly, Kiran, they don't need it.

Economist after economist, with whom I've spoken, CEOs, they acknowledge that there are far better ways to deal with the issues confronting our financial system than this bailout. And it's absolutely obscenely irresponsible of House Speaker [Nancy] Pelosi, Treasury Secretary [Henry] Paulson, President Bush, Sen. Harry Reid, the leader of the Senate; for these people to be clucking about like hysterical -- so hysterically. It really must stop. And to hear there -- go ahead.

Chetry: I was just going to ask you --

Dobbs: Go ahead.

Chetry: You say that there's other ways around this. One of the things that everyone keeps talking about is the fact that credit markets are frozen and there has to be some way to free that up so that everyday business from Wall Street to Main Street can continue.

Do you buy that?

Dobbs: No, not at all. And neither do most of the CEOs and economists with whom I'm speaking certainly. The real issue, they say, is liquidity. The Fed has injected more than half a billion dollars in liquidity into this banking system.  

What we are watching are business -- quote, unquote -- leaders who won't surface and put their faces before the American public who are hysterical. Absolutely hysterical. These are not leaders of moment. They are not leaders of great character or vision. Only Warren Buffett has had the courage to step forward. And that's after he puts $5 billion into Goldman Sachs.

To watch our political leaders, they have no idea in the world, Kiran, what they're doing. Literally. And the arrogance with which this administration asks for, not only money, almost $1 trillion, and surely more in the months ahead. But the absolute power for Treasury Secretary Paulson. Give me a break. The American people want this stopped. Those Congressmen and women at home right now, in their districts, are getting an earful because this is an absurdity and it has to end.

Chetry: So in one way, you're knocking Congress. But on the other way you're saying that, I guess the system works in that the brakes were pulled. Whether or not you agree with the reasons why it didn't go through. So, weren't they doing their job and showing leadership?

Dobbs: Let me be clear, Kiran. I'm saying leadership -- I'm saying the Democratic leadership of this Congress was absolutely in the same situation as this president.

They don't know what they're talking about. They're trying to ram this thing down the people's throats and Congress. And those House Republicans and House Democrats who voted against this bailout deserve a great, great expression of thanks from the American people. Absolutely.

Chetry: What do you think if you were up there making decisions? What do you think we need to do?

Dobbs: Well, the first thing we need to do is return to a traditional role of regulation. ... The problem here is not simply the housing market. ... But $700 billion and nothing in that bill deals with the foreclosure crisis, if you can imagine that. That's arrogance. That's stupidity. That is your leadership in Washington, D.C. Democratic leadership in Congress and Republican leadership in the White House.

So that's an absurdity. The first thing that has to be dealt with is mitigating the foreclosure crisis, period. Secondly, in terms of instilling confidence in the banking system and in our credit markets, the first thing to do is to deal with those institutions that are wildly out of balance, whose balance sheets, frankly, are a joke. And the regulators who should have been tending to them over the years are also a joke.

It's time to end the joke. That means aggressive regulation. It means aggressive intervention on an institution-by-institution basis.

Chetry: All right. Well, they're going to take this up again today, or throughout the week as they try to figure out what the best course of action is. Maybe they should listen to you a little bit more.

Dobbs: They'll be back Thursday.


Chetry: Right.

Dobbs: They'll be back Thursday to try this nonsense all over again,

[ycartrob]

Goodbye $1 Billion Salary, Hello Campbell Soup

Campbell Soup Co. was the only stock in the S&P 500 that escaped yesterday's historic sell-off. That's right: 499 fell, and just one rose.

Could there be a clearer metaphor for Americans refocusing on the basics after a decade of greed and excess?

That may be a stretch, but clearly the American public is in no mood to bail out the Wall Street gazillionaires responsible for the financial meltdown.

[aMillionDreams]

I say no to bail outs on principle.  If Bush really believes that government should stay out of big business he'll say the same thing.  That is, if he's a man of principle.

[The DARK]

Throwing money at people isn't going to save an economy.

America has to start getting back to basics. The national debt is currently $31,700 per person in the US. It's really starting to come down to basic producer-consumer concepts. When we were owed massive amounts of money after the World Wars, it was because we had the capability to mass produce incredible numbers of war supplies. Those jobs are now in India and China. We can't keep being massive consumers without something to show for it. The risky business of trying to milk money out of the economy falls apart when a downturn strikes. Our government isn't built to handle that.

I'm still optimistic. Right now the Middle East has us bending over backwards for oil; in 20 years they will be bending over backwards for water.

[Penny Lane]

Goodbye $1 Billion Salary, Hello Campbell Soup

Campbell Soup Co. was the only stock in the S&P 500 that escaped yesterday's historic sell-off. That's right: 499 fell, and just one rose.

Could there be a clearer metaphor for Americans refocusing on the basics after a decade of greed and excess?

That may be a stretch, but clearly the American public is in no mood to bail out the Wall Street gazillionaires responsible for the financial meltdown.

because people are stocking up on soup! ;)

[tower]

Interesting video on the economic crisis...I'm not saying it's 100% accurate, nothing in politics is, but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

[pawpaw]

Some good articles on this mess...

This first one does a good job of explaining how we got here (excerpt below): http://www.reason.com/news/show/129158.html

"...At the same time, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were going through a crisis. In 2003 and 2004, an accounting scandal was revealed. The two public-private partnerships were cooking the books to show phantom profits. The Bush administration and its allies on the Hill pushed a strong bill to reform how these institutions operated. The measure came very close to passing, but Fannie and Freddie cut a deal. They would refocus on expanding mortgages for low-income borrowers if the feds kept out of their operations. The bargain worked. Virtually all the Democrats and a few Republicans backed the two companies and the reform effort failed.

Fannie and Freddie then went on a subprime bender..."

This one talks about why we need to keep our banks afloat ,one way or another: http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12322942

"...It is, indeed, unfair that banks tend to be rescued when they go wrong whereas coal mines and shoe retailers do not. But banks play a key role in oiling the system; they provide the credit that lets the rest of us do business. They also have innate risk, because they lend more money then they have cash in hand. To put it another way, they borrow short and lend long. This has made them the subject of panics throughout history, and those panics have always led to economic turbulence. The authorities can let them go bust, but the risk is depression. Or they can hold their noses and bail them out..."

[Penny Lane]

Some good articles on this mess...

This first one does a good job of explaining how we got here (excerpt below): http://www.reason.com/news/show/129158.html

"...At the same time, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were going through a crisis. In 2003 and 2004, an accounting scandal was revealed. The two public-private partnerships were cooking the books to show phantom profits. The Bush administration and its allies on the Hill pushed a strong bill to reform how these institutions operated. The measure came very close to passing, but Fannie and Freddie cut a deal. They would refocus on expanding mortgages for low-income borrowers if the feds kept out of their operations. The bargain worked. Virtually all the Democrats and a few Republicans backed the two companies and the reform effort failed.

Fannie and Freddie then went on a subprime bender..."

This one talks about why we need to keep our banks afloat ,one way or another: http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12322942

"...It is, indeed, unfair that banks tend to be rescued when they go wrong whereas coal mines and shoe retailers do not. But banks play a key role in oiling the system; they provide the credit that lets the rest of us do business. They also have innate risk, because they lend more money then they have cash in hand. To put it another way, they borrow short and lend long. This has made them the subject of panics throughout history, and those panics have always led to economic turbulence. The authorities can let them go bust, but the risk is depression. Or they can hold their noses and bail them out..."

the economist is the best source out there--it's probably the most neutral source of info

[Penny Lane]

http://banking.senate.gov/public/_files/latestversionAYO08C32_xml.pdf

here's the plan if anyone wants to read it--pgs 31-36 probably the most important-i'm kind of tired of trying to understand this--so many add ons now

[Angry Ewok]

The other day, McCain said that he wouldn't just get rid of pork barrel spending, but he would also release the names of the people responsible for wasting our money...

That was last week. This week, he's voted in favor for this monster of a pork barrel package and tried to pressure his colleagues into doing the same.

This is why I voted for Romney in the primaries.

[mjkoehler]

Ah, you'll love this then Brad. Remember his funny little quip in the first debate about bear DNA research and paternity, well, he voted for that one too.

Govt= Do as we say not as we do.....

[Angry Ewok]

It's disgusting, man... We had all of those snakes get on television and say that if their bill wasn't passed in the middle of the night, the United States would cease to exist.

How many days has it been since the first draft was blown out of the water? And America is still intact, and the sun also rises? The United States was doomed to fail if action wasn't taken immediately - but somehow these politicians had the time to turn this bailout into a 400-plus page pork barrel?

[tomEisenbraun]

Fuck it. I'm gonna go learn myself a trade.

[Angry Ewok]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz-d6WPTXa8&feature=related[/media]

[Penny Lane]

on the bright side of the bill--some good pork in there, too--energy saving stuff-tax incentives/ i'm glad you're starting to see mccain's as dirty as the rest of them. he's been dissappointing and i was his biggest fan 8 years ago.

[mjkoehler]

No No, remember he's a maverick!  ::)

[size=8]Please not HEAVY tones of sarcasm and disdain[/size]

[ycartrob]

No No, remember he's a maverick!  ::)

[size=8]Please not HEAVY tones of sarcasm and disdain[/size]

my wife predicts a spike in dog owners who will name their dog Maverick.