first black president or first woman V.P.

[pawpaw]

i loved that they both wanted to call putin evil but couldn't, though

I know, and Brokaw asked specifically for 'yes' or 'no' answers!  ;D

[Penny Lane]

i loved that they both wanted to call putin evil but couldn't, though

I know, and Brokaw asked specifically for 'yes' or 'no' answers!  ;D

it's amazing how they can be giving the EXACT same answer but w/completely different words ---it's such an art form

[NoVa_NoLa]

No, instead Obama attended a radical, racist church for about twenty years, where the pastor screams "God Damn America!" and insinuates that the white folks running the American government invented AIDS and invited the 9/11 attacks with their Zionist views.

"I don't regret setting bombs... I feel we didn't do enough." - Bill Ayers, 2001

You don't think serving on the same board with someone for five years, sometimes being a guest in their home, constitutes some sort of relationship? I'm not saying they're best friends or anything, but it'll be hard to pretend that 1) Ayers is reformed and 2) Obama never had a relationship with him.

Is this where, to show that you're looking at both candidates histories through the same lens, you bring up McCain's ties to the U.S. Council for World Freedom which was part of an international organization linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America.

Or there's the fun with the Keating-5 scandal.

Or since church matters, John Hagee, the pastor whose endorsement McCain solicited and rejected after it turned out to be a politically stupid thing for him to do...

Gosh, golly, heck, ya know, Joe 6-pack, looks like there's plenty of skeletons in everyone's closet.  

[Penny Lane]

No, instead Obama attended a radical, racist church for about twenty years, where the pastor screams "God Damn America!" and insinuates that the white folks running the American government invented AIDS and invited the 9/11 attacks with their Zionist views.

"I don't regret setting bombs... I feel we didn't do enough." - Bill Ayers, 2001

You don't think serving on the same board with someone for five years, sometimes being a guest in their home, constitutes some sort of relationship? I'm not saying they're best friends or anything, but it'll be hard to pretend that 1) Ayers is reformed and 2) Obama never had a relationship with him.

Is this where, to show that you're looking at both candidates histories through the same lens, you bring up McCain's ties to the U.S. Council for World Freedom which was part of an international organization linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America.

Or there's the fun with the Keating-5 scandal.

Or since church matters, John Hagee, the pastor whose endorsement McCain solicited and rejected after it turned out to be a politically stupid thing for him to do...

Gosh, golly, heck, ya know, Joe 6-pack, looks like there's plenty of skeletons in everyone's closet.  

i agree--well mccain's had more time to gather them, too---don't forget about his crippled ex wife he cheated on and was still living w/when he met his new pretty blonde billionaire wife, 20 years younger than him...he's no angel--keating 5 left a lot of innocent people destitute...i like mccain but c'mon...we shouldn't even go there.

[ycartrob]

interesting (or not)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E[/media]

[Elizanne33]

interesting (or not)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E[/media]

This is interesting to me. I come from a very liberal part of the country and don't often see this perspective. I completely understand and respect differing opinions in regards to policy and experience. I am surprised however that people really think Obama is a terrorist. I know that is the sound bite going around, but do they really think the department of Homeland Security would allow a terrorist to be a United States Senator? Goodness gracious, Homeland Security certainly would do such a poor job as to actually allow this "terrorist" to run for the highest office of the land would they?

[Penny Lane]

most people don't really believe that but you know that's part of the political game ---pick apart everything about your opponent and his/her fam--any scandal or association w/anything or anyone controversial...this isn't shocking to me. the longer he's in politics, the longer he'll rack up skeletons--that's the biz---both sides do this

[ycartrob]

most people don't really believe that but you know that's part of the political game ---pick apart everything about your opponent and his/her fam--any scandal or association w/anything or anyone controversial...this isn't shocking to me. the longer he's in politics, the longer he'll rack up skeletons--that's the biz---both sides do this

Being called a terrorist b/c of your middle name is racking up skeletons? I'm pretty sure that's not how that works.

bottom line is the reps are digging deep into their arsenal of fear and hate b/c Obama is leading. And when people evoke Obama's middle name, they are doing nothing more than trying to scare the shit out of you into voting for McCain. Unless there is another reason, but so far no one has showed me differently.

One of the CNN folks had a great point that until Obama wins the election, he will not rest assured that race did not play a factor in the election; he feels many Americans are pulling for Obama now, but come election day they won't be able to vote for a black man or a man with a middle name like Hussein.

food for thought.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF8wtHWrCuU&feature=related[/media]

[MMJ_fanatic]

ho hum read a little more before thowing "scandals" at people:

Lincoln Savings and Loan collapsed in 1989, at a cost of $2 billion to the federal government. Some 23,000 Lincoln bondholders were defrauded and many elderly investors lost their life savings. The substantial political contributions that Keating had made to each of the senators, totalling $1.3 million, attracted considerable public and media attention. After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings, with Cranston receiving a formal reprimand. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

[aMillionDreams]

ho hum read a little more before thowing "scandals" at people:

Lincoln Savings and Loan collapsed in 1989, at a cost of $2 billion to the federal government. Some 23,000 Lincoln bondholders were defrauded and many elderly investors lost their life savings. The substantial political contributions that Keating had made to each of the senators, totalling $1.3 million, attracted considerable public and media attention. After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings, with Cranston receiving a formal reprimand. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

So wait?  Barack can't go to church with some guy you don't like and all the sudden he's a terrorist, but McCain is intimately involved in a government scandal and you scuff it off as a ho hum argument.  What was that you say about throwing attacks at a wall and seeing what stuck? You can at least conceit, I hope, that John McCain was an associate of Charles Keating. So what's the difference Mr. Ho Hum?

MMJfanatic, I admire your balls but not your brain.  I usually don't enter into debates like this because arguing with someone without the capacity for rationale thought is like trying to teach a pig to take a bath.  It's not going to happen and both parties will end up frustrated.

Please keep your misguided, ignorant assertions, propaganda, and talking points to yourself and I keep my elitist views myself.  

[Penny Lane]

ho hum read a little more before thowing "scandals" at people:

Lincoln Savings and Loan collapsed in 1989, at a cost of $2 billion to the federal government. Some 23,000 Lincoln bondholders were defrauded and many elderly investors lost their life savings. The substantial political contributions that Keating had made to each of the senators, totalling $1.3 million, attracted considerable public and media attention. After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings, with Cranston receiving a formal reprimand. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

MMJ-i normally agree w/your posts but this was a BIG deal and a huge blunder for mccain--it's sort of glossed over now but that was some shady sh*t that hurt a lot of people and i think he learned from it---he just got a slap on the wrist---surprised? the astronaut and the war veteran lol...luckily i think mccain learned from that---8 years ago he was what this country needed

[Taterbug]

I'm getting tired of all the negativity on both sides.  I think it adversely effects Mccain more than Obama.  I'm ready for the meat and potatos of how things are gonna change after November. If Mccain keeps up on the negative path he will hand the election to Obama with  a 60% majority and the death of the republican party.
Karl Rove can lick my dingle berries. This election turned to shit once he jumped into the ring.  

[ycartrob]

8 years ago he was what this country needed

I would have voted for him in 2000 instead of Nader (I couldn't vote for Bush or Gore).

I think if McCain loses he will really be depressed about his campaign tactics these last couple of weeks (if he sticks with the smear). I thought he was above that, and he said he wasn't going to go there. And doubely-especially after what Bush did to him in South Carolina in 2000, Bush supporters saying McCain abandoned veterans, saying his adopted black child came from an extra-marital affair, saying he was a homosexual and mentally unstable.  I think McCain will lose sleep over his new plan of smear b/c I think deep inside he's a good man.

[Penny Lane]

8 years ago he was what this country needed

I would have voted for him in 2000 instead of Nader (I couldn't vote for Bush or Gore).

I think if McCain loses he will really be depressed about his campaign tactics these last couple of weeks (if he sticks with the smear). I thought he was above that, and he said he wasn't going to go there. And doubely-especially after what Bush did to him in South Carolina in 2000, Bush supporters saying McCain abandoned veterans, saying his adopted black child came from an extra-marital affair, saying he was a homosexual and mentally unstable.  I think McCain will lose sleep over his new plan of smear b/c I think deep inside he's a good man.

tracy-i completely agree w/you (i'm a little shocked at that! lol) i voted for nader in 2000 as well---you are right, mccain's campaign has surprised me and he's definitely going to regret the smear--i thought he was above that, too

tater--did you see dennis miller on leno or letterman the other night? he basically said the same thing--he's supporting mccain but he said that he could get behind either candidate--we just need this election to be over with --this 8 years of hating the administration is really old--we're in a depression now and while we don't need all the social programs FDR offered-we need someone to unify people

[aMillionDreams]

8 years ago he was what this country needed

I would have voted for him in 2000 instead of Nader (I couldn't vote for Bush or Gore).

I think if McCain loses he will really be depressed about his campaign tactics these last couple of weeks (if he sticks with the smear). I thought he was above that, and he said he wasn't going to go there. And doubely-especially after what Bush did to him in South Carolina in 2000, Bush supporters saying McCain abandoned veterans, saying his adopted black child came from an extra-marital affair, saying he was a homosexual and mentally unstable.  I think McCain will lose sleep over his new plan of smear b/c I think deep inside he's a good man.

tracy-i completely agree w/you (i'm a little shocked at that! lol) i voted for nader in 2000 as well---you are right, mccain's campaign has surprised me and he's definitely going to regret the smear--i thought he was above that, too

tater--did you see dennis miller on leno or letterman the other night? he basically said the same thing--he's supporting mccain but he said that he could get behind either candidate--we just need this election to be over with --this 8 years of hating the administration is really old--we're in a depression now and while we don't need all the social programs FDR offered-we need someone to unify people

I bet Dennis Miller does wish the Bush Admin was over since he's spent the last eight years supporting every move they made.  He's at least smart enough to realize it's time to move on.  I don't understand people who actually want more of the same.  They must not watch the news.

Even my mother and father-in-law have realized that Bush has really screwed the pooch and they are staunch Republicans and he has worked for Exxon Mobile since he was 20. They didn't support McCain until Palin joined on because I guess McCain wasn't evil enough for them.

And, btw, I used to really like McCain and would've voted for him in 2000 but he has since sold his soul to special interests from the right. Perhaps, it's all just lip service to get elected but he has ruined his reputation in my opinion.

[mjkoehler]

To me, Obama is great. I finally have a candidate that I can vote for because I want that person to win and do great things. To me it is not a choice of the lesser of 2 evils like the last 2 elections. I really didn't support Gore or Kerry more then I could not stand Bush/Cheney. I guess many Republicans can feel that way this year since McCain probably isn't the strongest candidate they could have put up at least from a Republican platform?

[MMJ_fanatic]

First--on the subject of "reverend" Wright:  this man is not worthy of an altar.  He is far removed from Jesus' teachings.  And lets not forget the balck liberation theology pact everyone, including Obama, signed when they join which states that all black prisoners, regardles of crime, should be immediately released from jail, white people are the enemy, etc.

Second with regard to terroist ties--why is Obama so unwilling to lay out any clarity around his time spent with Bill Ayers who bombed his own country, similar to one Mr Tim McVeigh, and has never repented (or been jailed). And no it doesn't make a difference that Obama wa only "8 when the rascally behavior occurred".

Third--Tony Rezko anyone wanna touch that one?

Lastly:  THERE WERE [size=24]4 DEMOCRATS[/size] WHO WERE INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN THE KEATING 5.  Guess who backed away from Charles Keating before the collapse of Lincoln S&L?  THATS RIGHT KIDDEES JOHN MCCAIN!

Oh yea and thanks for the ad hominem attack on my intelligence--it sustains the portrayal of liberals as they are:  vicious when presented with facts they can't argue logically.  Maybe you want to call me a racist now or just post that idiot Sarah video again ::)

[MMJ_fanatic]

 I'm ready for the meat and potatos of how things are gonna change after November.

Amen to that--wouldn't it be nice for politicians to be transparent for a change instead of dissembling?

[aMillionDreams]

First--on the subject of "reverend" Wright:  this man is not worthy of an altar.  He is far removed from Jesus' teachings.  And lets not forget the balck liberation theology pact everyone, including Obama, signed when they join which states that all black prisoners, regardles of crime, should be immediately released from jail, white people are the enemy, etc.

Second with regard to terroist ties--why is Obama so unwilling to lay out any clarity around his time spent with Bill Ayers who bombed his own country, similar to one Mr Tim McVeigh, and has never repented (or been jailed). And no it doesn't make a difference that Obama wa only "8 when the rascally behavior occurred".

Third--Tony Rezko anyone wanna touch that one?

Lastly:  THERE WERE [size=24]4 DEMOCRATS[/size] WHO WERE INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN THE KEATING 5.  Guess who backed away from Charles Keating before the collapse of Lincoln S&L?  THATS RIGHT KIDDEES JOHN MCCAIN!

Oh yea and thanks for the ad hominem attack on my intelligence--it sustains the portrayal of liberals as they are:  vicious when presented with facts they can't argue logically.  Maybe you want to call me a racist now or just post that idiot Sarah video again ::)

um, yeah.  you're missing the point but I won't continue to attack your intelligence.  You're showing everyone just how intelligent you are with every post you make.  I will say this though, I don't care if all the other people were democrats, independents, or communists. They are criminals and I'm not going to defend what they did because of what party they associate with. Those 4 Democrats aren't running for president this year.  Your boy, McCain is.  But I guess that it's okay for him to make be involved in one of the worst government scandals in the past couple generations and was accused of "poor judgment" according to the article YOU posted.

That's the difference between you and I. I listen to the facts and make a reasoned decision.  In your mind, logic means democrat= bad, republican=good.  That's not logic, that's blind faith, which is directly opposed to reason, the foundation of logic.

[ycartrob]

if the shoe fits, wear it. If not, then don't worry about it.

stand by MMJ fanatic, mcCain will be telling you what to think next very shortly...

(and here's that video again, like you asked)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E[/media]