The Science & Philosophy Thread

[woodnymph]

Damn, Hawk!!

That's borderline out-of-body, in my book. That blows right through 'lucid' into 'spiritually enlightening' (or beyond!) That you looked at your hands is interesting. I've read here and there that focusing on your hands (or a single hand) before drifting off (really focusing on it) is a way some people gear into lucidity. That's very major...

I'd think there are at least a few ways to find productivity in a lucid dream.... definitely working on 'problems,' like you mentioned. But there may be ways to tap into whatever spirit plane is enter-able... communicating with recently deceased? That might be kinda 'out there,' but it's just a thought. Lucid dreams bring about such an "invincible" feeling, it's hard to say what one is actually capable of. I myself would want to explore the mysterious areas of where one goes after one departs. That's likely my largest mystery I can think of, and I think about it daily (not in a gory or disturbing way!) Just such a curious thing. Reading the Tibetan Book of the Dead gets into the "bardos" and the various "stages" the soul seems to travel through, but it's just damn near impossible to explain or believe while still alive. Very curious if one can lucidly explore any such dimensions.... and if one were to MEDITATE while in a lucid dream.... well sweet jeebiss I just can't imagine what that all entails  :o

ANYWHO... speaking of meditating, I do practice regularly, but not always in a "conventional" way. I'd love to improve a more "conventional" method, because it seems much more advanced and challenging than the regular meditations I go through in my day. But to me, meditating is being as present as you can be. A good description I once read in some Buddhism book or another was, "When you eat, eat. When you walk, walk. When you read, read."  Sounds weird or overly-simple or whatever it might sound like. But it basically means just experience what you're doing as FULLY as you can. It's something you can do any second of your days. Typing this right now, am I distracted? Thinking about something else? Maybe listening to music? I can willingly just shut it all off, and focus on each letter forming as I hit the keys. And that's it! That's all it takes, for starters. Such meditation might seem too simple, like I said, but my short-term memory has sky-rocketed (though it's still faaaar from perfect heh) But when you set your car keys down, you set them down. You become present and take in any surroundings you have time to take in. I stop myself and truly notice where I set them.

Later Edit: You certainly learn a lot about yourself this way, and what weaknesses or strengths you have, mentally. And I feel practicing focus this way is also a helpful step in preventing Alzheimer's and/or dementia, etc... feel like I've read several health magazines with studies finding positive benefits like that. Makes sense, imo...

That's why meditation is a constant practice. Obviously we can't always be in that state (or can we?) I'm still attempting, but it doesn't mean things don't get forgotten or overlooked... I just notice I remember a hell of a lot more in practicing that kind of focus. And it's never boring, really. When I eat, say, a bowl of soup, and remember to 'meditate,' I often look directly at it and all the colors and textures and smells, and it truly does feel like meditation. To notice things in such vividness makes them "come alive," or something.

We all meditate to some Jacket, on a very, VERY regular basis

[darkglow]

i was talking about this just yesterday, how a simple but effective form of mental "yoga" consists of thinking in 3rd person.. like instead of thinking like "i am driving my car" you would think like "jenn is driving her car" and it makes you alot more conscious of your inner being and the duality that exists inside the ego. some books written by philosophers tell you to focus on the "me" side and to absolutely forget that the other side exists. i think that's damn near impossible. if you move past the simple mindset of just observing things as they are to being the observer that's observing the observer, things seem to become alot more clear and it's much easier to live with yourself.

just my opinion, though.
;)

[Jon T.]

Interesting stuff.  I have lucid dreams somewhat regularly.  In fact, I didn't realize is was that rare until I was reading this.  I also have dreams that aren't necessarily lucid but I'm able to wake myself up from them when I don't like them.  It seems like they are all similar.  I'm in some kind of trouble, not even sure usually, and I'm on the run.  I have to say my goodbyes to all my family and just when it starts to get to be too much, I wake myself up.  Come to think of it, I'm not exactly sure what it is I do to wake myself up now that I'm talking about it.  But I always know what to do while I'm actually dreaming.  Weird.

Also, I think listening to music is certainly a form of meditation.  I've actually been thinking about this a lot recently.  It started because I was thinking about how much I enjoy listening to music and how important it is to me.  Then I started to think about other people in my life and how that's not the case for them.   I just think to myself, "how can they be so indifferent about music".  It's just all how it makes people feel, I guess.  I'm kind of rambling here... my point is that when I listen to music by myself, everything else disappears.  Everytime.  No matter what I have going or what was on my mind, I get completely caught up in whatever it is I'm listening to and nothing else enters my mind (until my phone rings, anyway).  It's like it's not just the actual music that I am listening to that I like so much but also the background "noise" of thought that the music is able to block out.

[el_chode]

So what's the opposite of science?

Where did it all come from?

[darkglow]

el chode i'm reposting this from page 2 of this thread to give an answer to your question:

Richard Feynman on God

[woodnymph]

Hahah nice dialogue there   I like Richard Feynman's "deal," being based in the mystery and all. I like that he preaches neither for science nor for religion... He's right here and comfortable with not being able to fully explain either.... comforting words in a world pulled in so many directions....

Jon, I have had similar dreams where I've been able to wake myself up... but I've had roughly about the same number of dreams where I can recall wanting to wake up... or some strange sensation of knowing that I wasn't in a permanent reality... wow that was weird to finally put into words. What IS that! "knowing I'm not in a permanent reality" Shewt.. that just hit me in a way, sorry.... OK, OK, I know it might be a fine line, but I think I might go pull up a Dream thread! I know I've seen a few of 'em floatin' around the board...... might be about time  ???

And yeah I'd for sure go with music being a form of meditation. There are so many forms. There's Labyrinth meditation, walking meditation, mantra meditation, candle(/or object) meditation... just to name a tiny speck of them... It could definitely be argued that it is another tool to keep you in the present! And keep your mind clear from "debris."  At least for the time that you're listening to it. And when you allow it to block out the "small mind" barrage of crap, it can definitely be a beneficial "cleansing" for the day (or night). Like you mentioned, the benefit of music all depends on the listener and what their intentions are and how it affects them. Even maybe so far as how they allow it to affect them. Will they let music take them to the Utopia? Will they give in and let it free their mind in such a way? And some people just might not be wired for music to do that to them.... definitely an individual thing!

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/medical/cancer/story/2011/01/Study-Rise-in-some-head-and-neck-cancers-tied-to-oral-sex-/43056302/1?csp=34news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_

[el_chode]

Ever so often I find a pic that makes me question reality, like "humans are really doing this and not just in movies?":

[johnnYYac]

I'm assuming that's a picture from the International Space Station, Choder?  I've unearthed an old thread I posted that guides folks to viewing the ISS as it passes overhead in the night sky.  Check it out if you haven't already. 

http://mymorningjacket.com/forum/index.php?topic=12455.0

[el_chode]

I'm assuming that's a picture from the International Space Station, Choder?  I've unearthed an old thread I posted that guides folks to viewing the ISS as it passes overhead in the night sky.  Check it out if you haven't already. 

http://mymorningjacket.com/forum/index.php?topic=12455.0

Yeah, that was the result of their most recent renovation I believe, perhaps sometime in April. it's a gigantic window, the only purpose of which is to make me jealous that I'm not floating on the edge of gravity looking down on the only naturally-occurring hospitable location in the known universe.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

I'm assuming that's a picture from the International Space Station, Choder?  I've unearthed an old thread I posted that guides folks to viewing the ISS as it passes overhead in the night sky.  Check it out if you haven't already. 

http://mymorningjacket.com/forum/index.php?topic=12455.0

Yeah, that was the result of their most recent renovation I believe, perhaps sometime in April. it's a gigantic window, the only purpose of which is to make me jealous that I'm not floating on the edge of gravity looking down on the only naturally-occurring hospitable location in the known universe.

pretty fucking amazing.  hard to put into words really.  I want to explore outer space.  let's start a private program. 

[el_chode]

I'm assuming that's a picture from the International Space Station, Choder?  I've unearthed an old thread I posted that guides folks to viewing the ISS as it passes overhead in the night sky.  Check it out if you haven't already. 

http://mymorningjacket.com/forum/index.php?topic=12455.0

Yeah, that was the result of their most recent renovation I believe, perhaps sometime in April. it's a gigantic window, the only purpose of which is to make me jealous that I'm not floating on the edge of gravity looking down on the only naturally-occurring hospitable location in the known universe.

pretty fucking amazing.  hard to put into words really.  I want to explore outer space.  let's start a private program.

There are no laws in space. You can get as high as you want.

I say this because I imagine it to be like I took SCUBA during college and just went to class out of my head every day with a bunch of hippies from the forestry school (though they usually were tripping). We'd put on our dry suits and gear, hop in a heated pool, and float weightless.

I imagine doing that in outerspace is infinitely more awesome. And that experience was one of the most awesome.

[el_chode]

I don't know if any of you have ever seen/met a burn patient. But if you have this will blow your mind even more than if oyu're just someone who has their mind easily blown by science

The Skin Gun

[woodnymph]

I don't know if any of you have ever seen/met a burn patient. But if you have this will blow your mind even more than if oyu're just someone who has their mind easily blown by science

The Skin Gun

Look closely at that open wound-
See past what covers the surface
Underneath chaotic catastrophe-
Creation takes the stage

That's pretty neat.... 'cept, I don't believe they showed the hand after the procedure? I don't recall seeing a picture of his burnt shoulder to compare it with his 'newly revived' shoulder.... unless I looked away at any point and missed it? But that's definitely interesting teqhnologie!

[woodnymph]

There are no laws in space. You can get as high as you want.

I say this because I imagine it to be like I took SCUBA during college and just went to class out of my head every day with a bunch of hippies from the forestry school (though they usually were tripping). We'd put on our dry suits and gear, hop in a heated pool, and float weightless.

I imagine doing that in outerspace is infinitely more awesome. And that experience was one of the most awesome.

Man.... scuba class would kick major arse!! And they were tripping.....sweet lordamighty...  :o  I watched some movie once about an isolation tank and..... I don't remember a whole lot about the movie/plot/etc, other than the tank experience..... amazing that you take away all the senses and it would become OVERwhelming. It gives me chills just to think about that experience.

[woodnymph]

Also digginggggg

Richard Feynman talks about light

[TheBigChicken]

Also digginggggg

Richard Feynman talks about light

heavy

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-02-why-do-we-sleep.html

[Hawkeye]

Posted this on Facebook, but thought I'd share here too:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/16/phys-ed-what-really-causes-runners-high/

I found it interesting.  I don't really think I've ever had this "runner's high," or if I did, it really wasn't that pleasurable.  Maybe I didn't work out intensely enough.  I find it particularly interesting because I don't tend to get as much enjoyment from smoking the reefer as lots of people do.  I mean, I still do it, but only really get pleasure from it if I'm in the right frame of mind...usually listening to or playing music.  Otherwise I usually just feel fucked up and paranoid.  I get some relaxation too, but it comes in waves.  Paranoid, relaxed, paranoid, relaxed.  It's not this supreme, serene pleasure some people describe.  I mean I picture Sticky or my buddy Chip from college or Dave Chappelle smoking the reefer...now this particular group of individuals REALLY enjoys it.  I'm wondering if I lack these endocannibinoid receptors?  Or I don't have as many of them?  Or something is "blocking" them?  I will blame that for my lack of running motivation  ;)

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

Posted this on Facebook, but thought I'd share here too:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/16/phys-ed-what-really-causes-runners-high/

I found it interesting.  I don't really think I've ever had this "runner's high," or if I did, it really wasn't that pleasurable.  Maybe I didn't work out intensely enough.  I find it particularly interesting because I don't tend to get as much enjoyment from smoking the reefer as lots of people do.  I mean, I still do it, but only really get pleasure from it if I'm in the right frame of mind...usually listening to or playing music.  Otherwise I usually just feel fucked up and paranoid.  I get some relaxation too, but it comes in waves.  Paranoid, relaxed, paranoid, relaxed.  It's not this supreme, serene pleasure some people describe.  I mean I picture Sticky or my buddy Chip from college or Dave Chappelle smoking the reefer...now this particular group of individuals REALLY enjoys it.  I'm wondering if I lack these endocannibinoid receptors?  Or I don't have as many of them?  Or something is "blocking" them?  I will blame that for my lack of running motivation  ;)

hmm interesting.  my doctor told me to exercise to release endorphins, their advice better not be bunk.

weed makes everybody paranoid once in a while.  it's a tolerance thing if you ask me.  the more you do it the less prominent the negative effects are.   then again I knew a dude who smoked a bowl at a party with some friends and I once and ended up spending most of the night in the bathtub.  but he was kinda nutty in the head overall so it's hard to say if it was the chronic or his overactive imagination causing the said result. 

from what I've read there are only 3 main cannibanoids that effect your brain when high.  1.) short term memory loss while high 2.) increased appetite, and 3.) healing properties.

I'd expect the opposite of what that article says to happen.  it seems more likely an opiate type chemical is being released.  whether it's dopamine, serotonin, or endorphins, those are three main "I feel GOOD!" chemicals our brains release.  feel free to correct me tho because I'm not really positive about any of this.