Scary news these days...

[WSS2]

Been reading / chatting on the boards for some time now.  Seems like a lot of great people on here.  I just want to wish everyone a good week (and coming few months).... very, very scary news... whatever your political views may be, a debt downgrade affects everyone.  Not good stuff.  Good vibes to everyone

[MarkW]

I find the whole situation strange.  S&P (and the other ratings agencies) failed utterly to predict the 2008 financial meltdown - indeed they were still rating property-backed bonds highly right up until the crash.  In the rush to vilify bankers, the ratings agencies' failings have been forgotten.

Given their past accuracy, I'm not sure why anyone puts any credence on their current ratings?

[Clarkwork]

I think it will be no big deal if everyone doesnt panic. It's happened before to other countries.  Plus it could be upgraded again very quickly. Good Vibes is good advice.

[Tracy 2112]

At some point, America has to learn a lesson, and this may be it. The lesson we "learned" from the past financial meltdown is that corporate America will be bailed out by the government and individuals and families won't be. I hate to say it, but in order to "turn this ship around" it will take a colossal melt down of epic proportions. America has become (and continues to be) fat, greedy, drunk and stupid. Driving around like that you will eventually hit something or run off the road (i.e. we haven't reached our "bottom"). And this may not be it, but eventually it will come where we cannot bail ourselves out. ALL great nations have met their demise at some point; to think America will be any different is naive (unless we blow up the world to save our freedom).

[Crispy]

Hey, stocks are on sale!

[Jaimoe]

I find your tax system insane. I hope this mess all gets sorted out. The world doesn't need an addition to PIGS.

[MikeR1390]

I find your tax system insane. I hope this mess all gets sorted out. The world doesn't need an addition to PIGS.

Especially since PUIGS is way harder to pronounce. Maybe it could be changed to iPugs...

[mjk73]

Scarier news going on in London. Hoping all the Jacket peeps on here are ok. Shits getting crazy.

[el_chode]

The agency that had a $2 Trillion calculation error and rated the mortgage backed securities as a solid investment decided they were worried about our ability to pay down our debt so they made it harder to pay down our debt. It's like the price of oil going up because of the fear that the price of oil might go up.

Fuck 'em.

It only matters (from what I read) if Moody's follows suit. And it is important to keep in mind that S&P had some dealings going on with the gov't that this might be a bit more political. Oh, and let's not forget the fact that in advance of this relative out-of-nowhere downgrade there was a massive sell off in the markets last week. I hope they all go down for some grand inside scheme.

It's a referendum by the markets on the politics of this country, and it's on both sides. The president, as the only individual to be constitutionally held accountable for his actions must accept some responsibility, even if the tea baggers held the economy hostage. I do not appreciate the president pointing fingers, placing blame (regardless of affiliation) and I do not appreciate the idiots in congress playing around with the financial stability to make a political point. Timing is everything, and if you want to change the government, it helps to have a functioning government to change.

[WSS2]

el chode - your point in second paragraph.  completely agree - 500+ point selloff last Thurs on virtually no news.... there have been significant rumors that certain individuals got advanced notice of the downgrade.... SUPER fucked.

As for panic - panic trade is on.  Asset managers are pulling the plugs on investments at whatever cost... bottom line, expect significant pain from here - realistically, until next earnings season, there will be little anyone can do to make the market go up. 

Hunker down and don't be silly with $$$ (not saying anyone here is, just cautious words)

[el_chode]

What I don't get here is that there's no significant elections this season. Is it really just a ploy to to say "hey, remember how much shit sucked this time last year?"

I mean the GOP has a field stacked with unelectable crazy, but the kind of unelectable crazy that only gets elected when people are desperate. 3 months ago I'd say Obama has a cakewalk going into next year, but he seems to really have lost his panache lately, if that's the word to use. Even the NYT thinks he's lost something.

I'm honestly not scared of the markets so much as I'm scared of the next political season. It looks like such a joke to me that I can't help but think that whatever hellscape we're looking at now will be candyland compared to the havoc that will be unleashed if we actually end up electing someone who campaigns on a promise of no sharia law and marriage pledges.

[WSS2]

haha fair points EC ... fair points

bah.... at least sleep is free.  Goodnight y'all

[Penny Lane]

It's a referendum by the markets on the politics of this country, and it's on both sides. The president, as the only individual to be constitutionally held accountable for his actions must accept some responsibility, even if the tea baggers held the economy hostage. I do not appreciate the president pointing fingers, placing blame (regardless of affiliation) and I do not appreciate the idiots in congress playing around with the financial stability to make a political point. Timing is everything, and if you want to change the government, it helps to have a functioning government to change.

so true, chode..i don't understand enough about the market to even understand how S&P can give a rating based on an inaccurate calculation; i'm not sure what the President could have said; he gets lambasted for being TOO GOOD of a speaker, then he speaks and assures people and he gets lambasted for not saying enough to assure people; i want to blow up Congress most days and start over with town sheriffs, i'm so sick of this BS, why would he even want another 4 years..

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

great thread and conversation.  really interesting topic.  chode your first post is spot on.  fuck S&P, there is something fishy going on.  I heard around 6 or 7 on NPR that moody's doesn't agree with S&P.  but who knows.  Standard & Poor has gotta be under an investigation of intensity.  In Obama's speech, I gotta say he did give off a fed up, pissed off vide towards those fuckers.  What can he really do about all this drama that keeps flying at him?  It doesn't help that congress is on vacation.  worse congress in the history of the united states? it seems possible, no?

there was a good piece on Real Time friday where the famous scientist dude made a great point.  most of these representatives are lawyers, over 50percent I think he said.   Is that a good thing?  I know you're a Lawyer chodey but should most of our representatives be trained arguers? 

at least we have the largest weapons arsenal in the world. 

[el_chode]

Maybe the better way to put it is that it doesn't hurt and is not a negative to be a lawyer, the disadvantage is more that there's lessfewer non-lawyers than there should be. And to me, that often comes down to less of being a lawyer, and more to how the money is spread out. There have been plenty of good non-lawyer congressmen. And I wouldn't want 100% - we need it to be well rounded to have a well-rounded approach. Imagine a congress without economists, military men and women, scientists, etc.

As for Obama and this job, I tend to expect from the President a bit more of a thick skin and the whole "buck stops here" mentality. Regardless of what Obama should and should not have done, I think the best move for him, by virtue of his being the face of the executive, the branch we all look to for confidence/guidance/support/faith/"tell me it'll be ok" type things, he really should have figured out a way to own it without passing the blame. I think he could have absorbed it if done right. That's what a leader does. We're fed up with congress for the bickering, finger pointing, name calling, sophomoric antics, and I think many moderates would give him more credit if he sort of owned up to other people's mistakes and was the proverbial "bigger man".

I think he's got a nervous population, and people naturally look to him for a sense of hope/calm, and he failed to deliver that. Instead he gave a "well, shit, look what I'm dealing with!" type response, when instead I think he should have taken all the liquid congress pissed out and at least tried to convince us he had some delicious lemonade to sell.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

of course, I'm not saying we shouldn't have lawyers be our representatives, what I wonder is if their nature could become a barrier between actual progress if there are too many of them.  Lawyers seem to have a mentality to defend one single position and fight until they win or lose.  at least that's how it's seemed with all the last few "negotiations". 

they should have burned any legislation related to bush.  the bush tax cuts, the fucking bush tax cuts.  god damn. 

I'm getting sick of this status quo presidential face the country expects from the president.  It's a country about independence.  It's sad people forget about independence until you start fucking with their money and gas then they want it back. 
Obama's going to do what he's going to do and he's going to get my vote next election without a doubt, whether I agree with what he's doing or not.  I'm voting straight democrat.  fuck the republicans, fuck the social conservatives, fuck the tea party.   

what do you think about this, what if he wasn't trying to absorb it but let it ride on the wave of pissed off that everybody already has towards the republicans because of the debt ceiling budget shit? 

the american people are pretty fucking dumb will this wake them up?  they can only be nervous for so long until they become fed up and truly revolt in some way.  Is Obama letting the repubs paint him with that "Carter Malaise" bullshit? 

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

any new news about this today?

[el_chode]

Some news articles are saying it's a direct attack on Obama by wall St, another says S&P is only concerned with the ability of banks to turn a profit and this somehow helps them out in that respect.

I'd give links but I'm on my cell

[kydiddle]

chode what do you mean the GOP has unelectable crazy? you don't want to stare at this face for four years?

[kydiddle]

S&P rating by country: (sorry kind of hard to read. link is below.)



http://chartsbin.com/view/1177