DANGER! - Political Thread

[el_chode]

Everyone's still mum on the concept of the president ordering the execution of American citizens without the slightest bit of judicial oversight or pesky due process. No biggie - did Michelle have sleeves on tonight? And how crazy did Romney's son look?!

Yeah, I have a few minutes for a rant, haven't done one in a couple weeks.  I am guessing you still want to ding O in the service of a third party?  I've argued against this, and I still would, but my points have been made, refer to earlier posts.  So, I'll jump over to your side, but way further, as I really am way further; but I'm also a dedicated realist, who realizes voting for Obama is the best course of action right now.

Ok, so you got me fired up a bit with that mock about Michelle and Romney's son, because I've been wondering the same thing lately.  Wondering about Americans' outrage.  So much 'we' (not me) are outraged about - our declining position in the world, how high our taxes are, what's with kids these days, can't we just leave religion alone, the deficit, why are gas prices so high, why aren't drugs legal, and on and on; but you know what we aren't fired up about (not you chode, you are, and a small segment is) as a general rule, killing people.  Killing poor brown people specifically.  You never see that headline on the news, 'Poll Shows Majority of Americans Willing to Pay Higher Gas Prices And Higher Taxes In Order To Stop Killing Brown People'.  Never see that.  Never.  Because you know what, sadly, the majority of Americans aren't willing to pay higher gas prices or higher taxes to save the lives of brown people (foreigners in general, but especially brown foreigners).  And that's fucked up.

Yah, yeah, I haven't drawn any direct corollary there, and that wasn't my intent, there isn't one exactly.  Those things aren't related, except in this sense: the things we are so worried about are trivial, when compared to the things we don't care about - that are the foundations of humanity.

So, you're worried about executing Americans w/o due process and judicial oversight?  Why is this your pet cause (I know why, the LAW) el-chode?  Seriously?  How about executions in general?  Ever.  Do I want to personally torture and cut to ribbons the maniac that rapes and kills a 10 year old girl?  Yeah, I kinda do.  If I can just be sure it was him right, 100% certain, no reasonable doubt, red-handed.  But the thing is, I don't want to do it, because then that can be stretched out, the parameters widened.  Why not outrage at capital punishment in general?  Because everyone wants to kill that maniac, everyone wants 'justice', and they assume the system works, but it doesn't.  Innocent people have been executed.  That is never acceptable.  The opportunity to exact revenge/justice on a thousand sadistic barbarous murderers, will never be worth the life of one innocent.  Yeah, I changed the subject a little, but it's my rant, and I was curious about your selective outrage.

Damn, I have more, but that took me twenty minutes, later...

P.S. - I am 43 and I struggle to think of one thing that has made me proud of America during my lifetime.

Yes I ding Obama on this because guess who never did this? W. Difference: Obama is a constitutional scholar and stands by the decision.

I submit: the case of Anwar Al-Walaki (or however your translation wants to spell it).

As far as killings in general, I do not believe the death penalty is appropriate in 99.9% of cases. As far as it being a pet cause...well just because the majority of people are dunces doesn't mean I can't (a) get pissed about that or (b) I should stop caring.

The president is the most powerful man in the world. SOME citizens hold him accountable...it's the function of an open government. And he must be held accountable despite the ridiculousness of the other guy and whether or not you prefer a (D) or an (R) after his name. Blind allegiance and excusing someone simply because you think he's 1% more less evil than the next guy is just as problematic as treating the candidacy like a beauty pageant.

As for things I'm proud of this country for - I'm about 4 hours shy of 30 years on this planet, and if there's one thing I learned it's that pride in your country was awesome in the 80s when the ruskies were out to get us but it is the foundation for accusations of believing in American exceptionalism these days. But off the top of my head, I'd like to thank our supposedly anti-science country for allowing me to live in a world where I can look at a photograph and slowly realize it's from a location no human has ever been and is not even of this planet.

[exist10z]

Happy birthday el-chode.

Alright, space exploration, I'll give you that one.  So, there's one thing about which I'm proud.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

when you step back and look at how polarized we are and how much propaganda is out there it's really scary that we're the most powerful country in the world.  it's scary because the public, overall when it comes to politics is ignorant, apathetic, or emotionally attached to stupid shit with no real awareness of how things actually work.  "what does bain do?", "what's the 14th amendment?" etc.  people just don't know this shit. 

even when presented hard facts and studies, emotion takes over.  it's drivel.  which leads to the queston, who is really making our decisions?  as of today, it appears grover norquist is.  we're so fucked.  and it's not because we're powerless, it's because we act helpless.  we act like victims.  it's time to put up or shut up.  to smack that fat dick down on that mother fuckin mouth.   

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

http://harpers.org/print/?pid=225772

[exist10z]

Yeah thanks Sticky, that was depressing.

So we're bought and sold, it's over, I guess many of us already realize this (not nearly enough of course). 

It's interesting that the article didn't mention that a group of Romney's former Bain cohorts, now a private equity firm, bought the company supplying the voting machines for large portions of Ohio.  At least I didn't see it mentioned, it was a long article.

It's depressing really, and I found it particularly interesting the point they made about the stalwarts of the left being unwilling to comment on the issue.  I feel the same way.  I feel like even suggesting it lumps me I with conspiracy theorist, who I think are generally out of touch (some more than others).  Maybe I also am being a bit of an ostrich, I really don't want to think it has gone that far, that it could be THAT corrupt.  But that's just being naive.  Of course it could, there's literally trillions of dollars at stake, entire countries have been leveled for less.

I like to think of myself as a radical, a radical of the mind.  My thoughts are out of the ordinary, out of step with the vast majority, but maybe my actions aren't far enough out of step.  I have continually argued that voting for a third party is pointless and a wasted vote (which I still think), but maybe voting at all is pointless.  Maybe it's time for the revolution.  It's certainly getting closer, and there'll be no stopping it eventually anyway.

Maybe the best thing to do it just let them win, hope they win, that the neo-cons and oligarchs take all the power, in order to bring what will ultimately be a painful change, sooner rather than later.  They're gonna take it all anyway, why fight it.  I suck at linking, but George Carlin has a great bit about this which I am sure you have heard, and he nails it.

People have short memories, and combined with difficulty imagining the future, this works against civilization.  No one can imagine a revolution here, it could never happen, would never happen.  In the past 250 years, there have been multiple major revolutions completely upending political and societal norms (French, Russian, and for those with short memories, Middle East) and I think it is clear this will need to happen again.  And will happen again. 

It has been demonstrated, that you can only perpetuate unbridled greed for so long, before those you are depriving have had enough.  The more these elections are rigged, either directly, or by simply purchasing victory, the closer we come to the breaking point.

Maybe Obama will win, who knows.  But I assume that everything that can be done to prevent him winning is being done, from 'benign' lies and media manipulation, to outright fraud.  Although even if he does, the system isn't changing, and money isn't going to lose in the end, money never loses.  If you want to beat money, you're gonna have to shed blood.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

tis the year of buying state constitutions, trying to privatize teachers/schools, trying to destroy unions overall.  prop 6 in michigan is straight up a propaganda campaign paid for by one family to block the new international bridge crossing to canada. 

they've spent 40times more on ads than the people against.  800k is what the no votes could get together.  matty spend like 31million one ads for one proposal.   it's some of the huge corruption is recent political history:

http://www.wdet.org/shows/craig-fahle-show/episode/podcast-wednesday-october-31-2012/

[exist10z]

It's going on here in California as well.  Prop 32, for which multiple ads play on every TV station (thankfully, at least some for opposition), basically strips the ability of unions to contribute to political campaigns. 

Prop 32 is couched as 'Keeping Special Interest and Corporate Money Out of Politics', but that's not what it does.  It doesn't stop corporations from contributing to campaigns (it's sponsored by corporate interests), it just stops unions and other groups from contributing.  I read an article saying that if it passes, and they are flooding the airwaves with ads to get it passed, it will be just another death blow for unions all across the country. Other states will follow.

This isn't stopping, it's picking up steam, the money is grabbing more money as fast as it can.  One way to do that is to lower wages. 

[exist10z]

That first Carlin link wasn't the one I was referencing, and I couldn't get the second one to work.  But he's great.

[Tracy 2112]

Wont Get Fooled Again

[BH]

Wow.   Big day for Dems, Gays and Potheads!     

I think we should award Twitter with the MVP award.

[rincon]

Bronco Bama

[rincon]

Watching Fox news last night the anchor was talking about how well Romney did in the first debate, and the most substantive thing he could come up with was Romney looked at Obama the whole time, and Obama did not look at Romney. This is the look Romney had the whole debate, and this is what I was thinking every time they showed it.     And this is taken as a plus?

[BH]

It sure is quiet in the forum today..????

I'm assuming everyone is packing to move to Colorado?

[Ruckus]

Just wanted to add that last night was the proudest I've ever been as a Marylander having lived here for 11 years now.  We became the first state to approve a state sanctioned gay marriage law via referendum.  Go Maryland!

[rincon]

As a straight man who has some difficulty imagining or watching 2 men together, I agree 100%. It is not about me.

[exist10z]

Just wanted to add that last night was the proudest I've ever been as a Marylander having lived here for 11 years now.  We became the first state to approve a state sanctioned gay marriage law via referendum.  Go Maryland!

Born and raised, couldn't be prouder.

[exist10z]

So many great moments last night.  I switched over to Fox right after it was called, and watching Rove lose his shit was priceless.  Just the realization that the bulk of Americans (and the number is only growing) just don't want their brand of repressive dictatorial bigotry/homophobia/xenophobia/misogyny/dogma.  Really was nice to see.

Nice job Americans, I generally think you are mentally challenged, but you did well.

[rincon]

Just wanted to add that last night was the proudest I've ever been as a Marylander having lived here for 11 years now.  We became the first state to approve a state sanctioned gay marriage law via referendum.  Go Maryland!

Born and raised, couldn't be prouder.

Are you Mc'Nulty?

[iLikeBeer]

Just wanted to add that last night was the proudest I've ever been as a Marylander having lived here for 11 years now.  We became the first state to approve a state sanctioned gay marriage law via referendum.  Go Maryland!

I'm pretty proud of Colorado and Washington (state) myself...   

I keeeed, I keeeed. 

Go Maryland!  Nice job!      

[smhoffmann02]

Just wanted to add that last night was the proudest I've ever been as a Marylander having lived here for 11 years now.  We became the first state to approve a state sanctioned gay marriage law via referendum.  Go Maryland!

Born and raised, couldn't be prouder.

Right on!  I hope it sets the stage for the rest of the country...