Vinyl questions

[Fully]

I got something I've never seen before. I bought a double album that is recorded at 45rpm. I didn't realize it until I put it on this morning when I got to school. I'm willing to be that someone on this board can explain the benefit of making an album that plays at that speed. Does anyone have any information on why this would be done?

I should add that while it is a double album, it only has five songs on it. There is about 44 minutes of music on it.

[headhunter]

Beth,
Any album cut at 45 rpm should sound much better than a 33 rpm lp.  Reason is basically that more information can be "read" from the grooves on an album when it is a) read at a slower speed and b) not as compacted on the album so that the music is not squeezed in as tightly.
Think of it like a book.  Much easier to read larger print (especially when you start getting old like me) than reading one of those books where the print is tiny.
The better your turntable, stereo and cartridge (needle) - the more you would be able to notice the difference.
Hope that helps.

[Fully]

Beth,
Any album cut at 45 rpm should sound much better than a 33 rpm lp.  Reason is basically that more information can be "read" from the grooves on an album when it is a) read at a slower speed and b) not as compacted on the album so that the music is not squeezed in as tightly.
Think of it like a book.  Much easier to read larger print (especially when you start getting old like me) than reading one of those books where the print is tiny.
The better your turntable, stereo and cartridge (needle) - the more you would be able to notice the difference.
Hope that helps.

Thanks Jeff! I was willing to bet that you would be the one who could answer this question. Now to get a better turntable, stereo, and needle. This thing I have at school is over fifty years old and held together with the last remnants of my dignity. I love that it works though. I just wish I was electronically gifted enough to fix a few of it's issues. I really need to invest in a better system.

[jcoyote]

Hello,

I have a Project Carbon and I love it.  Highly recommend, and it comes in seven or so nice colors, although black and silver are two, but they are boring.

Going out on a limb.  Did you buy Chris Robinson Brotherhood's The Magic Door?  That is cut @ 45.  One is white, one is black.  Very stellar. Actually, you said five songs, and it has seven, so maybe not. 

Careful, though.  Old stylus' could ruin a record.  I say hold off playing until you upgrade. 

[GO4IT]

Circuital is cut at 45rpm.  Took me by surprise when it arrived and I put it on at 33rpm.  I had not seen a 12in 45rpm in a long time - it sounds fantastic!

[LeanneP]

Just wanted to throw it out there that with a new belt (if belt-driven) your ancient turntable may be far better than modern ones. My late 70s Pioneer turntable was amazing until a part broke and proved more expensive than a new DJ quality deck.

[Fully]

Just wanted to throw it out there that with a new belt (if belt-driven) your ancient turntable may be far better than modern ones. My late 70s Pioneer turntable was amazing until a part broke and proved more expensive than a new DJ quality deck.

The belt works well. What I need to fix is the volume knob.

[scosby2]

I know Jeff loves hearing all this vinyl talk like I do...I got made fun of in 2005 when all my CDs got stolen out of my car and I started buying nothing but vinyl...well over 2000 records later (that's a lot but our buddy headhunter is sitting on 6 digits over there) I'm glad to see people finally catching up...it really is amazing the difference you can hear when you get a really good turntable, needle, and sound system. And it's really cool to see a lot of old cabinet record players the restorations they all deserve by people remembering they or someone in their family has one that's been forgotten...

[headhunter]

I know Jeff loves hearing all this vinyl talk like I do...I got made fun of in 2005 when all my CDs got stolen out of my car and I started buying nothing but vinyl...well over 2000 records later (that's a lot but our buddy headhunter is sitting on 6 digits over there) I'm glad to see people finally catching up...it really is amazing the difference you can hear when you get a really good turntable, needle, and sound system. And it's really cool to see a lot of old cabinet record players the restorations they all deserve by people remembering they or someone in their family has one that's been forgotten...

I think it's more like 6,000 not 6 digits but yes, I do have a lot of records.  My experience is that whether you have a $60 tt, $600 tt or more, when you make the switch to vinyl it is hard to go back.  Much more enjoyable and engaging and you really get to hear and listen to the music, not just background noise.  So much good used stuff out there (both hardware and software (ie, records!) that is hard to find elsewhere.  Not hard to find great $1 records at thrift stores, yard sales and record shows.

I also know many peeps who get there parents record collections filled with great stuff from Pink Floyd, the Dead, the Beatles and other classic bands.  Yes, the hobby can get expensive (and addictive) but once you jump in, it is easy to get hooked.

[Crispy]

Good god, scos, +2000 in 7 years? I've been buying records for 30 years and still only have 600. Do you go buy boxes of them at garage sales or something?

Here's another question for those with sizable collections: where do you store them? I have had a hell of a time finding good bookcases, because I refuse to buy veneered particle board. In fact, I am going to the lumberyard today and am going to build some heavy-duty shelving myownself!

[midwesterner]

Good god, scos, +2000 in 7 years? I've been buying records for 30 years and still only have 600. Do you go buy boxes of them at garage sales or something?

Here's another question for those with sizable collections: where do you store them? I have had a hell of a time finding good bookcases, because I refuse to buy veneered particle board. In fact, I am going to the lumberyard today and am going to build some heavy-duty shelving myownself!

I have probably close to 2000 plus and been collecting for 20 years. Every couple of years I purge records I don't listen to anymore. But the storage issue got pretty bad this year so I had a professional carpenter build a set of built in record shelves for me. One of the best decisions I have ever made. It looks great and it allows me to store more than I could previously. My shelves are about 13 inches high and I think 12 inches deep. By about 6 feet wide. Every 2 feet there is divider. This divider servers as a support and  allows for the records to space properly. You want to avoid cramming to many records on one shelf. And most importantly you never want to stack records.

[exist10z]

Looks like Fully's 'Vinyl question' - specific, has branched out, so I want to jump in.  I was actually thinking of creating a thread with the same title myself, but just about general vinyl questions.  I am intrigued.

I am old enough to have grown up listening to vinyl, but abandoned it when CDs came along.  I really feel like I need to jump back in, that I am missing an integral part of my music 'hearing' experience.  I hardly remember the 'sound' of vinyl, it's been so long, but I have read enough to believe I am missing something.  At this point I don't even really listen to CDs, it's all digital, and I am really not even picky about the digital quality. But there is something in me that thinks hearing something great on vinyl, on a decent system, will be worth the trouble.

So a few questions, what would I need?  How much is it gonna cost?  What are the most important components/factors - turntable, needle, receiver/amp, speakers, everything?  Can you get this stuff used, or is it better for some elements to go new (speakers)?  I really don't have a place for it right now, being sort of bi-coastal and not having a lot of my own space, but in a few years I should be set up with a decent place to listen, so I might as well get started thinking about it now.  Maybe even picking up some elements (records, or even hardware deals), that I'll want and need later.

Price is an issue.  I realize you could spend multi-thousands on a system, but some guidance on what someone who's been listening to low-bit mp3s for years would appreciate, which probably wouldn't require much.  Plus, as was mentioned earlier, I have access to a pretty amazing record collection my dad is no longer 'using', so I have a head start on actual albums.

Thanks.

[GO4IT]

With today's amplifiers you'll need a preamp to deliver a sufficient signal to your amp.  In the old days, preamps were built into the amps.  Here's one that I've been very happy with at a reasonable price: http://www.phonopreamps.com/TC-760LCpp.html

For speakers you might want to check out NewEgg for the older style Polk audio speakers.  Every once in a while they reduce them to outrageously low prices.  They were so low when I bought them that I thought I was ordering 2 double-woofer bookshelfs and it was actually 2 PAIRS! (used them for my back-channels so worked out fine).  I'm very happy with these.  Also got a sub-woofer and middle front speaker as part of the whole TV-Amp-Speaker upgrade. Still have my old 70s direct-drive Denon turntable.

[jcoyote]

Addiction is a good word for it!  The reason my collection has jumped so much is like it was mentioned before, you go to a thrift store/flea market, and some are priced as low as .25!  Good shape, too.  I routinely go out and pick up 13 or so at a time.  I'm not buying as much new vinyl as used.  To answer another question regarding storage, Ikea makes an "Expedit."  If you have one of their stores close, I have done research that those do well. 

[Crispy]

Yeah, I guess this got threadjacked a bit, so let's change the title!

I'm interested in investigating GO4IT's advice on preamps. My Sony power amp (I forget the model) has a decent phono stage, but I'd like to get some tube preampage going in and bump it up some.

The major thing about building a system is that every part is important, although I think you can spend not too much to have a nice-sounding setup, but you will forever be upgrading. Some people spend as much on cables as they do on speakers! I would like to try heavy-duty extension cord and see if anybody could tell the difference.

A used turntable is great if you find a nice one in good condition or you're willing to spend $$ to make it right, but an inexpensive new one would be fine. I'd go new on everything else. I've only had two turntables in my life, a cheap Technics from the 80s, and now my rig is a Marantz 6300 that I got on ebay about 12 years ago. It still works great, but could used some tuning up, and I've been through maybe 8 cartridges, which is a continuous expense. A new stylus makes a lot of difference!

I've seen IKEA's Expedits, which look good, but I don't have a store close and then there is my aversion to particle board. I started my shelf building project, got the lumber (2x12s!) and painted them last night.

[Fully]

I love the direction this thread has turned. I'm getting some good information here for when I do decide to upgrade to a real system - probably when my kids get out of college or I quit traveling to shows for awhile  Good luck on those shelves, Crispy!

[Hawkeye]

I think it's hard to say where is the "best" place to start or the "best" place to spend the most money, because every component truly does make a difference.  And then there's the law of diminishing returns...you can spend A LOOOOOTTTT if you really want to.  Like 6 figures...$100k...the stuff is out there.

Anyway, I'm pretty happy with my setup right now but of course I'm always looking to upgrade.

Here's what I have:
- Rega RP1 turntable - I like it.  I got it gifted to me (new), but if I had to do it again I might buy used here.  I think you get more for your money that way, assuming everything is in good shape.  $450, purchased December 2011.
- Bellari VP130 preamp - usually priced around $250 but if you look for a bit you can get them for more like $175.  Cheapest tube amp I've seen, although I think I read it's not a "true" tube amp...kind of a combo, that uses the tube to somewhat color the sound, but not as much as a pricey tube amp.  Only complaint is no on/off switch so you unplug it or leave it on all the time.  Sound is plenty good.  Purchased December 2011.
- Klipsch SF-3 speakers - discontinued model.  Were around $900/pair at Best Buy in 2003, but I knew someone who worked there, got them for $350.  Sound plenty good to me, but my woofers are not working on one of the towers.  Purchased in 2003.
- Panasonic SA-XR25 receiver - purchased in 2003, approx $350 back then.

So, you can see I've got about $1300 in my system.  I would consider my components to be all "mid-grade" type stuff, but it sounds very good to me.  You could probably get all of this stuff used for nearly half the price.

You could go on and on with upgrades, but I would try not to obsess over it unless it's something you really want to put a lot of time and money into.  My recommendation is to spend as much as you can initially, and then just enjoy it for awhile.  Inevitably you'll get the bug to upgrade (possibly almost immediately), but I'd resist for as long as possible and just enjoy the music and spend your money on records.

With that said, I'm currently looking at new amps and cartridges 

I would give these amps a look, as I've heard they're some of the best you can get, for the money.  Supposedly they make amps for some other high-end brands, and finally decided to sell some under their own brand.  I am looking at the UPA-200, since I only have a 2 speaker system right now.  Pretty sure you also need a pre-amp with that model, and I'm looking at the USP-1.  I believe the company has a 30 day trial period, so you can listen and send the stuff back if you're not satisfied!

http://emotiva.com/

Although, honestly, a new phono cartridge would probably make the biggest difference in my system...

Lots of good websites and forums on this topic.  I'd check out http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php if you haven't already.

[exist10z]

Great info so far.  I think once I get this going, at least initially, I am going to be so excited to actually hear music 'properly' again, that even staying on the reasonable end of the spectrum price wise will be fine.  Like I mentioned, 3/4 of the time I am listening to low grade mp3 versions through my iMac speakers, or maybe a pair of very-mediocre phones.  Thanks

[LeanneP]

Like jcoyote, we also have an Expedit shelf for vinyl. I'll have to snap a pick and share. We have the 8 shelf one, on it's side, on castors with the stereo on top of it. It's a sweet looking set up.

[headhunter]

OK, to share of few pictures of my collection, album shelves and racks come in many shapes and sizes.  They just need to be very strong and sturdy if you want to store lots of lps.  A few pictures of my collection.  Among my most favorite physical worldly possessions.