MP3, FLAC, or FLAC-HD Questions

[Mr. White]

I know with the recent changes in My Morning Jacket's Bootleg Series (the switch over to Livedownloads.com) there have been a few questions and comments on whether to get the more expensive FLAC-HD's or not.

I have re-purchased night 1 of Red Rocks in FLAC-HD (There were several issues with the original). I have gotten Port Chester nights 1 and 3 in FLAC-HD (Night 2 is being re-mixed and is not ready for download as I write this). I guess I need some guidance on how to best play/listen to my new high quality music. So far, I have only hooked up my laptop computer (using Nero Kwik Media) to my home stereo with an extra long mini-plug wire, and it sounds really good. I think el_chode said something about others making a DVD of the higher quality files to listen to. What program would you use to record these files onto a DVD? Also, what other ways/devices are there for enjoying FLAC-HD's?

[davymac]

I recently got the night 1 FLAC HD thinking it was 24/96 but is currently playing at 16 bit (which I thought was what standard FLAC played at)

Either I'm wrong about that or I need to adjust a setting on my receiver to play 24 bit?  It sounds awesome though either way!

[Mr. White]

I have been reading up a little on FLAC and FLAC-HD on the Interweb this morning, and I'm still not sure of what I am doing. I hooked up my laptop computer to my home stereo, but I don't know if it has a special sound card installed or not (I read that you need a sound card). Also, I don't want to have to keep it hookded up to my stereo all the time. When I tried to use Nero and Windows DVD Maker to record a DVD of the music, neither program could "see" the files. Nero "sees" the files in order to play them, but it says "No items match your search".

Davymac, how can you tell that your files are playing in 16 bit? Are you using a computer or something else to play your new downloads? Where is the readout that tells you that files are playing at 16 bits?

[davymac]

I actually have it saved on a server and playing it thru an Onkyo receiver (not sure what kind of media player it is using?) and it just shows 16bit/44.1khz

For my Itunes, I used a converter called MAX to convert the FLAC to an AAC file, but I'm not sure if that compressed it or if I'm losing sound quality because of that...hopefully one of our forum audio experts will chime in.

I'm no expert but it definitely sounds better than a standard MP3...

[e-stone]

I have re-purchased night 1 of Red Rocks in FLAC-HD (There were several issues with the original)

quick hijack - all the issues seem to be cleared up with the original release of this show?  if so, i think i'm just going to have to bite the bullet and re-purchase as well.

[adastra]

I actually have it saved on a server and playing it thru an Onkyo receiver (not sure what kind of media player it is using?) and it just shows 16bit/44.1khz

For my Itunes, I used a converter called MAX to convert the FLAC to an AAC file, but I'm not sure if that compressed it or if I'm losing sound quality because of that...hopefully one of our forum audio experts will chime in.

I'm no expert but it definitely sounds better than a standard MP3...

AAC is a lossy (compressed) format, so yes you are losing some quality there.  The best option to play FLAC-HD in the world of itunes and ipods and such is to convert to AIFF which is lossless format more widely used by lots of different software and hardware.  The thing to watch out for is codec quality.  I would recommend something like Amarra, a hi-rez audio player and converter, but there are other options out there.   

In any hi-rez audio playback scenario the biggest bottleneck you'll run into is the quality of your digital to analog conversion.  If you allow your computer to handle this duty you are largely undo-ing any gains you got spending cash on hi-rez files.  If you have a nice-ish receiver with digital audio input, its probably a better option to run digital from your computer into the receiver and let it handle the conversion duties. 

An infinitely better solution that than is a standalone DAC (digital to analog converter). There are many on the market at every price point, some even use vacuum tubes!  Even a pretty inexpensive DAC will usually do a better job than anything in your computer or receiver. 

BTW, if you have pretty much any Mac computer, your headphone jack doubles as a mini-toslink optical output, meaning you could plug that into a D to A converter and have up to 96k resolution.  Other DACs can utilise USB and, more rarely Firewire, for the transfer of digital audio and allow for even higher sample rates. 

[davymac]

Thanks adastra!  I will look into amarra and try to convert it to an AIFF! 

[Mr. White]

Besides listening to the FLAC-HD downloads with a mini-plug wire leading from my computer's headphone jack to my home stereo, I have made regular CD-R copies to play in my car and on my portable stereos. Have I just lost some of the quality by recording it to a simple CD-R, or is that pretty good? It does sound better than normal downloads that I have transferred to CD-R's in the past. Also, since I don't seem to be able to make a DVD with Nero or Windows DVD Maker, is a Data CD or Data DVD a good choice?

[buymycar]

Besides listening to the FLAC-HD downloads with a mini-plug wire leading from my computer's headphone jack to my home stereo, I have made regular CD-R copies to play in my car and on my portable stereos. Have I just lost some of the quality by recording it to a simple CD-R, or is that pretty good? It does sound better than normal downloads that I have transferred to CD-R's in the past. Also, since I don't seem to be able to make a DVD with Nero or Windows DVD Maker, is a Data CD or Data DVD a good choice?

I don't know how you're making your CD-Rs, but when you burn to CD, you're downsampling from 24 bit down to 16 bit.  You're also going from 96 khz to 44.1 khz.  So, yes, you certainly are losing some of the quality.

[adastra]

Besides listening to the FLAC-HD downloads with a mini-plug wire leading from my computer's headphone jack to my home stereo, I have made regular CD-R copies to play in my car and on my portable stereos. Have I just lost some of the quality by recording it to a simple CD-R, or is that pretty good? It does sound better than normal downloads that I have transferred to CD-R's in the past. Also, since I don't seem to be able to make a DVD with Nero or Windows DVD Maker, is a Data CD or Data DVD a good choice?

I don't know how you're making your CD-Rs, but when you burn to CD, you're downsampling from 24 bit down to 16 bit.  You're also going from 96 khz to 44.1 khz.  So, yes, you certainly are losing some of the quality.

buymycar is correct, and those are inherent limitations to the CD format (44.1/16bit).  SACD and DVDs offer higher quality, but if you are using standard car cd players and discmans and such it probably isn't an option to use those formats.  Bottom line is that to really get the full benefit of these files, you need a hi-rez capable media player and high sample-rate DAC.  All that said, I think they are a good investment for improving your setup down the road, and even downsampled they are probably going to sound a little better than the standard quality options.

Sample rates and audio gear are always improving, my personal DAC is capable of 32-bit 384kHz, which far exceeds any of my media, but hey, nothing wrong with looking forward...

[crooney]

Thanks to all for the helpful info.  I have a quick question.  I have a CD player that has '24 bit DAC' on it.  What are my options for playing the PC flac hd files with the CD player?  Can I only hook my computer up to the player or is there someway I can burn the flac hd files to a hard medium (ie SACDs or DVDs) and then play those in the player?  Again, thanks for the info!!!  Much appreciated.

[davymac]

Thanks for all the help, I converted to AIFF and in itunes its showing 24 bit and 2304 kbps (I know CD quality is 320 kbps) so thats pretty far out! 

[adastra]

Thanks to all for the helpful info.  I have a quick question.  I have a CD player that has '24 bit DAC' on it.  What are my options for playing the PC flac hd files with the CD player?  Can I only hook my computer up to the player or is there someway I can burn the flac hd files to a hard medium (ie SACDs or DVDs) and then play those in the player?  Again, thanks for the info!!!  Much appreciated.

Some CD players can handle "data" cd's, which could play higher rez files.   Try using something like Roxio or Toast to burn a data cd at higher quality and see if it will play on you unit. 

[crooney]

Thanks much adastra!  I will give your suggestion a try.

[Mr. White]

Besides listening to the FLAC-HD downloads with a mini-plug wire leading from my computer's headphone jack to my home stereo, I have made regular CD-R copies to play in my car and on my portable stereos. Have I just lost some of the quality by recording it to a simple CD-R, or is that pretty good? It does sound better than normal downloads that I have transferred to CD-R's in the past. Also, since I don't seem to be able to make a DVD with Nero or Windows DVD Maker, is a Data CD or Data DVD a good choice?

I don't know how you're making your CD-Rs, but when you burn to CD, you're downsampling from 24 bit down to 16 bit.  You're also going from 96 khz to 44.1 khz.  So, yes, you certainly are losing some of the quality.

I was able to make my CD copies using Nero Burn. They have played in all my players, even my car stereo that can be picky when it comes to some recordings.

From what I have read from all those who seem to have a good handle on higher quality audio recordings, I have come to the conclusion that I will be investing in some kind of stand alone DAC and possibly a new receiver/amp.

[LeanneP]

There is no quality info for the mp3s. Anyone know if they are 320kps? Less?  I likely would never need to the HDs. Frankly I'm going to be listening on my ipod. Just wondering if the jump from mp3 to flac/alac is that dramatic.

[sweatboard]

There is no quality info for the mp3s. Anyone know if they are 320kps? Less?  I likely would never need to the HDs. Frankly I'm going to be listening on my ipod. Just wondering if the jump from mp3 to flac/alac is that dramatic.

No, If they are both recorded at the same kps.  From what I know the only benefit of Flac is that is upholds it''s integrity when passed on.  Which is why bit torrent sites wont deal with mp3's.  They lose audio quality everytime they are passed on....but mmj official bootlegs should sound the same as flac or mp3....could be wrong..correct me if I am. 

[HansAndreas]

There is no quality info for the mp3s. Anyone know if they are 320kps? Less?  I likely would never need to the HDs. Frankly I'm going to be listening on my ipod. Just wondering if the jump from mp3 to flac/alac is that dramatic.

I downloaded the free mp3's (Constant bitrate 256kbps) sounds great. Don't know about the Flac/alac.

[sweatboard]

The issue is that we even have mp3's available for these shows.  It's convenient, but people are going to end up with crappy versions of the show when it inevitably gets passed on by people that don't know better.  We really shouldn't be dealing with these mp3 files that will lose their integrity.......but it's cheep and easy.  As long as mmj continues to allow us to download these shows straight from them it's really not an issue.  Keep It UP!!

[LeanneP]

Thanks for the perspective. I think I might splash the extra few bones for the Flac/Alac and then spin off some mp3s for ipod use. It's $12 extra overall for the three shows which isn't so bad. The site FAQ on Live Downloads said mp3s are 128kbps but I was curious to see if ours were higher quality. I can make my own 300lbps, I suppose.

people are going to end up with crappy versions of the show when it inevitably gets passed on by people that don't know better.

So, essentially, mp3s that are passed around a lot are just like old tapes from Dead shows that get re-recorded over and over so that a 10th generation tape sounds markedly different than a 1st gen tape.  Haha!  I get it.