Pono Music

[ffghtrs]

I'm actually kind of excited for Pono music via Mr. Young.  Neil has the right idea in mind, i love vinyl the warm sound of tube amps and i love cranking good sounding tunes in my car.  So i'll probably switch over from iTunes to Pono music for downloading...possibly a new player too?  any thoughts?

[iLikeBeer]

Saw this video of an informal poll done on Yahoo today and thought it was kind of interesting.  It was basically a blind test where they had a pono player and an iPhone plugged into a splitter and the person doing the test didn't know which player they were listening to and had to choose which one sounded better and how noticeable the difference was.  They all listened to 3 songs on 2 different kinds of headphones.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/it-was-one-of-kickstarters-most-successful-109496883039.html]
[url]https://www.yahoo.com/tech/it-was-one-of-kickstarters-most-successful-109496883039.html
[/url]

Almost every single person in the poll chose the iPhone over the Pono and most said the difference was not worth the difference in price or spending the money on rebuilding your music library.  Didn't quite compare to the face melting reaction Neil got from fellow artists from his promo video...

[Santo]

That's an interesting video. I wish they would have talked to the sound engineer more. I have not seen many favorable reviews of the Pono. Here is another interesting read...
http://www.cnet.com/news/sound-bite-despite-ponos-promise-experts-pan-hd-audio/

I've thought Neil Young's Pono claims were a bit dubious. Very few of us will have his the sound system and he never mentions what he was comparing. He only showed testimonials not the test. I get the feeling they were lo-fidelity mp3's vs hd flac.

There is a lot to like about it though. He makes a good point about low production quality of music in the digital age. Its too easy to put out crappy sounding music. I think people are getting back to putting more care into the mastering process. Also, its a quality stand alone music player, that plays multiple formats and has expandable memory. Smartphones makers are just beginning to care about music quality. A good stand alone player outperforms most smartphones. There are others hd flac players out there, but it seems like Pono is getting the most press. Maybe it will stick around. I don't think the price is outrageous for a new product either. I think the first 5 gb ipod was $400. If Pono catches on it will likely come down in price. I bet future incarnations will have wifi and a cache-able streaming service.

[iLikeBeer]

It's not just the price of the pono player.  It's the fact that you need to also replace your entire music collection as well which is way more pricey than the $400 for the player itself...

[Santo]

I may be wrong, but I don't think you have to replace anything. The Pono player should play multiple formats including mp3. I think the best thing that Neil Young did was point out that there was a lot of crappy sounding music out there.

[MrWhippy]

We should change the name of this thread to "Porno Music." 

Would probably be a much more interesting discussion.

[ffghtrs]

i don't know what porno music is but all i can think of is bow chika wow wow

[MrWhippy]

The 70's were probably the golden age of porno music.

[Santo]

Porno Music's throbbing bass really stands-up at 24/192.

[buymycar]

Saw this video of an informal poll done on Yahoo today and thought it was kind of interesting.  It was basically a blind test where they had a pono player and an iPhone plugged into a splitter and the person doing the test didn't know which player they were listening to and had to choose which one sounded better and how noticeable the difference was.  They all listened to 3 songs on 2 different kinds of headphones.


[url]https://www.yahoo.com/tech/it-was-one-of-kickstarters-most-successful-109496883039.html]https://www.yahoo.com/tech/it-was-one-of-kickstarters-most-successful-109496883039.html]
[url]https://www.yahoo.com/tech/it-was-one-of-kickstarters-most-successful-109496883039.html
[/url]

Almost every single person in the poll chose the iPhone over the Pono and most said the difference was not worth the difference in price or spending the money on rebuilding your music library.  Didn't quite compare to the face melting reaction Neil got from fellow artists from his promo video...

15 people is hardly enough of a sample size to get accurate results. The graphs don't really indicate that "almost every single person in the poll chose the iPhone over the Pono" as that wasn't what was being tested. Junk science at its finest...

[Santo]

15 people is hardly enough of a sample size to get accurate results. The graphs don't really indicate that "almost every single person in the poll chose the iPhone over the Pono" as that wasn't what was being tested. Junk science at its finest...

Its not junk science, in fact its not science at all. Its just an informal survey that suggested a trend. I wouldn't disregard the study, nor would I take it as gospel. Science actually shows that the high resolution files don't make a difference and can actually degrade fidelity. http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

But that is talking about the 24/192 format, not the player itself. I think there are good reasons to buy the player. I generally like kickstarter projects and it was brilliant to team with musicians to create limited edition players, but Neil Young is emblematic of my issues with the audiophile crowd that says 1)You need a specific and expensive equipment to truly enjoy music; and 2) If you can't hear the difference than you and your garbage ears can stick with "good enough" while my "golden ears" enjoys the art in its intended form.

Sorry, I don't mean to get long winded or preachy. I just find the debate interesting and I have some strong opinions based on personal experiences.

[buymycar]

15 people is hardly enough of a sample size to get accurate results. The graphs don't really indicate that "almost every single person in the poll chose the iPhone over the Pono" as that wasn't what was being tested. Junk science at its finest...

Its not junk science, in fact its not science at all. Its just an informal survey that suggested a trend. I wouldn't disregard the study, nor would I take it as gospel. Science actually shows that the high resolution files don't make a difference and can actually degrade fidelity. http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

But that is talking about the 24/192 format, not the player itself. I think there are good reasons to buy the player. I generally like kickstarter projects and it was brilliant to team with musicians to create limited edition players, but Neil Young is emblematic of my issues with the audiophile crowd that says 1)You need a specific and expensive equipment to truly enjoy music; and 2) If you can't hear the difference than you and your garbage ears can stick with "good enough" while my "golden ears" enjoys the art in its intended form.

Sorry, I don't mean to get long winded or preachy. I just find the debate interesting and I have some strong opinions based on personal experiences.

No need to apologize. I have no stake in Pono, did not buy one, nor do I have any intention of doing so. If anything, I'm glad Neil brought the debate to the masses, because I think it's good to talk about.

What I've found out in the past year or so is that how a record is mastered is most important, and not what resolution or what format it is in. The Weezer album that came out last year has a much higher dynamic range in Hi-Res than the CD or iTunes versions. Does this mean that the dynamic range can't be captured in CD format? Not necessarily, as there are plenty of albums in CD format on the dynamic range database (http://dr.loudness-war.info/) with high dynamic ranges. The Spoon record that came out last year has no difference in dynamic range between its Hi-Res and CD versions, so there's no real point in spending extra for the Hi-Res.

Instead of resolution, the problem the Pono people should be harping on is the "loudness wars" that have plagued recordings for the past decade or more. The compression introduced during recording to reduce dynamic range has gotten ridiculous.

[Santo]

No need to apologize. I have no stake in Pono, did not buy one, nor do I have any intention of doing so. If anything, I'm glad Neil brought the debate to the masses, because I think it's good to talk about.

What I've found out in the past year or so is that how a record is mastered is most important, and not what resolution or what format it is in. The Weezer album that came out last year has a much higher dynamic range in Hi-Res than the CD or iTunes versions. Does this mean that the dynamic range can't be captured in CD format? Not necessarily, as there are plenty of albums in CD format on the dynamic range database (http://dr.loudness-war.info/) with high dynamic ranges. The Spoon record that came out last year has no difference in dynamic range between its Hi-Res and CD versions, so there's no real point in spending extra for the Hi-Res.

Instead of resolution, the problem the Pono people should be harping on is the "loudness wars" that have plagued recordings for the past decade or more. The compression introduced during recording to reduce dynamic range has gotten ridiculous.

Absolutely agree. Its interesting, I've read (haven't heard it myself), that recent master quality recording of the new Zeppelin albums actually sound worse. The idea is that the speaker technology in the 70s wasn't what it is today. With a modern set-up you can hear all the mistakes made during the mastering process. These mistakes were hidden by 1970s stereo systems. Don't know if its true, just a curious tidbit.

[buymycar]

Interesting analysis of the many digital versions of the record that just won the Best Engineered Album award at the Grammys:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/569-and-winner-%85/

Bob Ludwig's statement:
http://www.analogplanet.com/content/stop-nonsense-bob-ludwig-true-numbers-behind-becks-imorning-phasei-album

[iLikeBeer]

Saw this video of an informal poll done on Yahoo today and thought it was kind of interesting.  It was basically a blind test where they had a pono player and an iPhone plugged into a splitter and the person doing the test didn't know which player they were listening to and had to choose which one sounded better and how noticeable the difference was.  They all listened to 3 songs on 2 different kinds of headphones.


[url=https://www.yahoo.com/tech/it-was-one-of-kickstarters-most-successful-109496883039.html]https://www.yahoo.com/tech/it-was-one-of-kickstarters-most-successful-109496883039.html]
[url]https://www.yahoo.com/tech/it-was-one-of-kickstarters-most-successful-109496883039.html]https://www.yahoo.com/tech/it-was-one-of-kickstarters-most-successful-109496883039.html]https://www.yahoo.com/tech/it-was-one-of-kickstarters-most-successful-109496883039.html]
[url]https://www.yahoo.com/tech/it-was-one-of-kickstarters-most-successful-109496883039.html
[/url]

Almost every single person in the poll chose the iPhone over the Pono and most said the difference was not worth the difference in price or spending the money on rebuilding your music library.  Didn't quite compare to the face melting reaction Neil got from fellow artists from his promo video...

15 people is hardly enough of a sample size to get accurate results. The graphs don't really indicate that "almost every single person in the poll chose the iPhone over the Pono" as that wasn't what was being tested. Junk science at its finest...

Never made the claim that this study was large enough for the result to be accurate.  I just thought it was interesting that non-musicians weren't gushing over the pono player like the ones in Neil's non-scientific study were doing. 

I have nothing against the pono.  I just don't ever see myself spending $400 for one...