OBH 2022 Vaccine Requirement/Change of Terms

[crooney]

Well said, RobRoy.

[shumatec1012]

I def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed that boosters are not needed for people under 65 without preexisting conditions, and what did the head advisor do, override it. the experts on that panel say that they were basically given the outcome and then told to find the science to support it. The relationship between government and corporations ( big pharma) is too entwined in this nation to blindly trust either of these parties, let alone blindly go along with a mandate that literally requires compliance in what can often be shotty science in order to earn a living ( fuck concerts- that's not what is at stake here..)

Covid is NOT a hoax- i am not an anti-vaxer please do not diminish my argument.

No government control that is granted has EVER been taken away once the threat is gone, you only need to look back to the Patriot Act to see that. Vaccine mandates and passports as we see in Euroupe, once established will be forever. I worry that this is not worth it. We just had Donald Trump as president, and likely in 3 years will have another republican in office. What are they going to mandate? The booster approval shows that medical expertise is often at the whim of political and corporate pressure.

[RobRoy286]

I def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed that boosters are not needed for people under 65 without preexisting conditions, and what did the head advisor do, override it. the experts on that panel say that they were basically given the outcome and then told to find the science to support it. The relationship between government and corporations ( big pharma) is too entwined in this nation to blindly trust either of these parties, let alone blindly go along with a mandate that literally requires compliance in what can often be shotty science in order to earn a living ( fuck concerts- that's not what is at stake here..)

Covid is NOT a hoax- i am not an anti-vaxer please do not diminish my argument.

No government control that is granted has EVER been taken away once the threat is gone, you only need to look back to the Patriot Act to see that. Vaccine mandates and passports as we see in Euroupe, once established will be forever. I worry that this is not worth it. We just had Donald Trump as president, and likely in 3 years will have another republican in office. What are they going to mandate? The booster approval shows that medical expertise is often at the whim of political and corporate pressure.

I gotcha man. I don't think you're an idiot, nor do I automatically assume anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot. The OP certainly presented himself as one though, with the whacky shit he said. I get it that people are frustrated - I certainly could've dialed down the profanity and aggression. I will say though, it's unfair to say that government control has NEVER been reversed, and then say you *only* need to look at one example. There were mask mandates and closures for the Spanish Flu pandemic, and those eventually were phased out. Maybe I'm misunderstand where you're coming from. There's plenty of realism to what you are saying. And I don't mean to put words in your mouth and claim you think mask mandates are the same as vaccine requirements (I certainly weigh those two differently), but LOTS of people think it's all the same and that even wearing a mask is oppression.
 I...I don't know. I guess I trust the medical community more than others. I guess I'm a sheep.

Bahh.

[ranyart]

Probably my favorite on Animals 

[RobRoy286]

Probably my favorite on Animals 

Ooh it's been a while, might have to spin that album now as an opener for tonight's live stream 

[mdgsolo]

I def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed

9 of 6?  That is a lot!

[shumatec1012]

I def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed that boosters are not needed for people under 65 without preexisting conditions, and what did the head advisor do, override it. the experts on that panel say that they were basically given the outcome and then told to find the science to support it. The relationship between government and corporations ( big pharma) is too entwined in this nation to blindly trust either of these parties, let alone blindly go along with a mandate that literally requires compliance in what can often be shotty science in order to earn a living ( fuck concerts- that's not what is at stake here..)

Covid is NOT a hoax- i am not an anti-vaxer please do not diminish my argument.

No government control that is granted has EVER been taken away once the threat is gone, you only need to look back to the Patriot Act to see that. Vaccine mandates and passports as we see in Euroupe, once established will be forever. I worry that this is not worth it. We just had Donald Trump as president, and likely in 3 years will have another republican in office. What are they going to mandate? The booster approval shows that medical expertise is often at the whim of political and corporate pressure.

I gotcha man. I don't think you're an idiot, nor do I automatically assume anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot. The OP certainly presented himself as one though, with the whacky shit he said. I get it that people are frustrated - I certainly could've dialed down the profanity and aggression. I will say though, it's unfair to say that government control has NEVER been reversed, and then say you *only* need to look at one example. There were mask mandates and closures for the Spanish Flu pandemic, and those eventually were phased out. Maybe I'm misunderstand where you're coming from. There's plenty of realism to what you are saying. And I don't mean to put words in your mouth and claim you think mask mandates are the same as vaccine requirements (I certainly weigh those two differently), but LOTS of people think it's all the same and that even wearing a mask is oppression.
 I...I don't know. I guess I trust the medical community more than others. I guess I'm a sheep.

Bahh.

I don't think you're a sheep and I appreciate your genuine comment. Truth is, that that trust in the medical community is a leap of faith in some regards. I respect another's faith until they tell me I'm an idiot for not sharing it with them. haha

I def think everyone should get vaccinated and I tell everyone I know to go out and do just that. But for those who have problems trusting these institutions ( for MANY good reasons) forcing them to do so by penalty of losing their livelihood isn't the most convincing way. Italy has one of the strongest mandate polcies ( even boosters are mandated) and they have over 80% of the population vaccinated- this isn't soley about innoculation in my view- the mandates are about exploiting our collective fears and turning them into irreversible state power. Some will say that sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I would say read Noam Chomsky for dozens of real life contemporary examples of that playing out..

We need better discourse on this issue- I am pro vaccine, pro science and absolutely anti mandate- but there are many stances on this spectrum, some more credible than others. I think many of the poster's original concerns are valid and most of the responses were ignorant, ill-informed and down right sarcastic and rude. A lot of really smart people ( not just Trumpers) draw exception to these policies, we should be asking ourselves why that is.

[shumatec1012]

I def don't think Covid is a hoax- I agree, generally with what you are saying. I just don't think its as simple as anyone who has an opposing view of you is an idiot. Look at the FDA approval process for the booster shots- 9 of 6 of the covid experts agreed

9 of 6?  That is a lot!

9 to 6 voted for boosters not being necessary- source: new york times- let me know if you need me to dig up the article.

[Bulldog]

All, please know I am not trying to insinuate this will or should happen for OBH, but at the same time wanted everyone to be aware of changes to Playing in the Sand that came out today.

I for one was glad to see CID came to (or was forced) their senses on this as the 48 hours and a couple other things were rubbing folks wrong given the current state of the pandemic.

See below for the full memo

Playing in the Sand 2022 Update
New safety protocols and refund policies announced

Dead & Company looks forward to seeing you at Playing in the Sand January 7-10, 2022. Any package holders no longer interested in attending Playing in the Sand for either weekend may now request a refund by following the instructions below and submitting your refund request by 5pm ET on December 31, 2021.

CID Presents and Dead & Company strongly advise guests, if eligible, to be boosted against COVID-19 before traveling to Mexico
 

IMPORTANT UPDATES TO PLAYING IN THE SAND HEALTH & SAFETY PLANNING
CID Presents and Dead & Company have enacted the following measures to provide a safer experience for all:
•   All staff are required to wear KN95 masks at all times.
•   All guests will be required to wear masks in all indoor public spaces except while actively eating.
•   All CID Presents staff are fully vaccinated against COVID-19.
•   All Moon Palace staff who are guest-facing are fully vaccinated against COVID-19.
•   All CID Presents staff and Moon Palace staff are tested daily.
•   We are now accepting NAAT lab or technician-certified test results in place of pre-arrival PCR Tests as needed.
•   We highly encourage guests not to leave the resort throughout their Playing in the Sand vacation. Therefore, all CID Presents-hosted off-site adventures have been canceled and will be automatically refunded.
•   In the event a Playing in the Sand guest tests positive for COVID-19 either upon arrival antigen testing or prior to departure, an on-site quarantine room will be provided complimentary by CID Presents and Moon Palace until a negative test result is produced.
•   In the event that all on-site quarantine rooms are occupied, CID Presents will arrange for lodging at a nearby hotel and cover all associated transportation and lodging costs.
•   Guests who arrive in the Cancún area more than two days prior to event check-in and need assistance with obtaining a PCR test locally can visit our medical partner Protech at one of THESE locations. You will not be allowed to check into the event or resort until you have received your PCR test results.
•   We strongly advise against flying without a negative test result. Guests who get PCR tests via Protech Medical will experience at least a 6-8 hour wait for test results. Please use the code "RockOn" for a discounted rate of $85 per person per test.
•   New CDC Isolation and Quarantine Period guidance has been lowered from 10 days to 5 days for asymptomatic US Citizens. For the most up to date guidance, click here.
As a reminder, our required guest Health & Safety Policy is as follows:
Health & Safety Policy (Updated 12/29/21)
•   Guests must provide proof of full COVID-19 vaccination before departure for the event; AND
•   Guests must provide Negative COVID-19 PCR test or any NAAT lab or technician-certified test no more than two days prior to event check-in; AND
•   Guests must provide a negative antigen test administered at check-in; AND
•   Guests must provide an additional negative antigen test for departure from Mexico no more than 1 day before your flight home per CDC order.
Note: if you are unable to access a COVID-19 PCR test, NAAT lab or technician-certified test results will also be accepted.
 
For anyone eligible, a COVID-19 booster shot is strongly encouraged!
 

While we are confident that the policies and precautions in place will allow us to present a safe and enjoyable event, if you prefer to cancel your entire package for a full refund, you may do so by completing the form below by 5PM ET on Friday, December 31. Refund requests will not be accepted via phone or email. Refunds will be automatically issued to the card(s) used for each payment within 60-90 days. Additional action or follow up with our Guest Services team is not required once the form has been submitted.

Click Here to Submit for a Full Refund

Please Note: If you are requesting a refund and you previously signed a waiver and got the package transferred to you, a refund will be provided via mailed check. This is the only circumstance a refund will be provided via mailed check. Please complete the form if you wish to request a refund and a follow-up email will be sent in the coming weeks to collect your preferred shipping address.

No refunds will be provided after the deadline and by choosing not to be refunded you are opting to keep your original package purchased.

IMPORTANT: action must be taken by the primary lead guest, on behalf of their group.
 

[MMJCOBRA]

 

[Bulldog]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/dead-and-company-cancun-cancellation-refunds-1276662/

[ericm]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/dead-and-company-cancun-cancellation-refunds-1276662/

No doubt this is the right thing to do for the fans but why will it take 60-90 days for their money to be refunded? It's great people can opt out and not lose their dough and I guess waiting for it is better than not getting it back at all but 60-90 days seems out of line to me.

[Bulldog]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/dead-and-company-cancun-cancellation-refunds-1276662/

No doubt this is the right thing to do for the fans but why will it take 60-90 days for their money to be refunded? It's great people can opt out and not lose their dough and I guess waiting for it is better than not getting it back at all but 60-90 days seems out of line to me.

I tought the same thing, I am on the fence if I'll go (and have less than 48 hours to decide), but yeah holding my cash for another 60-90 is interesting.

That said, I'm happy as hell to at least have the choise, this was getting ugly with the 48 hour PCR testing requirment.

[ranyart]

What a freaking mess!  I'm glad CID and D&C did the right thing by giving people the option to get a refund.  The 60 - 90 day deal is pretty outrageous though CID returned my money in a few days for the Denver cancellation.  I would love to hear what sort of BS they can come up with to justify the delay.

Hopefully all things viral will settle back down and OBH will hit a sweet spot and everything will be just fine.

[oistheone]

The CID Dead event just announced that the show will go on despite the fact neither John Mayer or Bill Kreutzmann will be... playing in the band

What would it take for MMJ to cancel? Even if (ESPECIALLY IF) Bo tested positive prior to OBH and they moved forward with some ringer I'd be devastated.

[MOWJO8185]

The CID Dead event just announced that the show will go on despite the fact neither John Mayer or Bill Kreutzmann will be... playing in the band

What would it take for MMJ to cancel? Even if (ESPECIALLY IF) Bo tested positive prior to OBH and they moved forward with some ringer I'd be devastated.

I read on another forum that the venue isn't letting Dead & Co cancel - not sure if true.

[Trukel]

Just read on Brooklyn Vegan that Playing in the Sand has been cancelled.

[oistheone]

I am (incredibly selfishly) thankful that this craziness is happening during CID's first event of the season. They have a ton planned and this worst case scenario will set the precedent going forward.

Less worried about OBH now than ever. It's either getting canceled and we're refunded, or we're getting refunded AND comp'ed if they pull a Dead and cancel a day before.

[ranyart]

I am (incredibly selfishly) thankful that this craziness is happening during CID's first event of the season. They have a ton planned and this worst case scenario will set the precedent going forward.

Less worried about OBH now than ever. It's either getting canceled and we're refunded, or we're getting refunded AND comp'ed if they pull a Dead and cancel a day before.

I didn't realize CID is giving refunds and free stays for the people that did show up after passing on the opportunity to get a refund.  What a freaking mess!  Hopefully by the time OBH rolls around things have calmed back down again and it will go off without a hitch.

[consigliare]

I have an idea for CID that will avoid all the BS about Covid and the "vaccines" and, barring ill-considered and illogical government mandates, will allow all wanting to go to OBH5 to be able to attend.

It is all very simple.

Just make it an entirely at your own risk event.

No "vaccine" or mask requirements.

Let people choose for themselves the manner in which they desire to protect themselves.

If some want to get "vaccinated" so be it.  If some do not, good for them.  It's not like the "vaccines" work as everyone was originally led to believe - they do not prevent one from getting Covid, they do not prevent transmission, and they do not prevent one from getting sick.

Additionally, given that the vaccines are not effective as originally propounded, have been shown to be pathogenic, and/or people have acquired natural immunity, it makes absolutely no sense to continue to require attendees to get an experimental "vaccine". 

Same with the damned masks - if some want to wear ineffective cloth or surgical masks, or more effective N95, or chemical masks, or even wear space suits along with oxygen tanks, let them do so as they see fit.  If some do not, just the same.   

If some want to take preventatives such as Ivermectin or HCQ along with other OTCs - which have been long used and proven to be safe and effective by the US, Japanese, and Indian governments along with the WHO - so be it.  In fact, I would think that most would consider such preventatives and protocols a few days before their departure in order to increase the likelihood that they will pass any required Covid tests, as well as reduce the likelihood of getting Covid at the event.

Just try to remember - all of these mandates to wear ineffective masks and/or mandates to get ineffective "vaccines" has all been for a virus having a greater than 99% survivability rate.

Or, they could just refund all those no longer desiring to attend and/or hook up people that no longer want to attend to transfer their package to those on the waiting list.