What is missing from Evil Urges?

[ycartrob]

Wow.  Coltrane and Tracy, you are being remarkably ridiculous.

Now, I have only been a fan since 2004 (which I'm sure makes me far inferior to you) and only been an official member of the forum for 5 minutes (though I've been reading it for years) but I have to say, you guys are seriously making the rest of the forum look bad.

My Morning Jacket is one of my 4 favorite bands and I have not heard one song from them that I do not like. That said, with every band that you like, if you listen to them for long enough, you will eventually hear something that does not rub you the right way.  

Killerwolf did not say anything bad about the band or the album overall.  He/She simply expressed what they did and did not like about the album.  The fact that this person was able to compare it with their other albums shows that they are a fan.  Killerwolf was not being "disingenuous", they were speaking exactly what their opinion was of the album.  They said both good and bad things about it.

For anyone to say that this message board is "more than a message board" or that it is for "more than just a band" is like someone saying that their religion is the only religion and that "my lord is the only lord, so you are wrong".  Screw you.  Especially you, Coltrane.  

While I too am sad that My Morning Jacket may no longer be my secret band that I love and adore, I think that they, more than any other band deserve some acknowledgment for what they've done.  I hope that in 20 years, people will see them in the regard that people now see Led Zepplin.  Because every song that MMJ has done is a classic, in my opinion.  That does not mean that other people can't speak their opinion about them.  

Have a good one.

thanks kep, Ill try to be nicer. Hopefully I can still express my feelings here too if I do not agree with what someone posted. It's just words on the internet, but I hear you.

[ycartrob]

I'm moving on. I appreciate PapaJoe Bear's insight, he enlightened me.

goatboy, you may be about as hard headed as me, so we will have to agree to disagree. I do agree with you on your point That's what messageboards are for.  They are not just here for everybody to agree with each other and suck each others cocks in but to actively disagree, argue and debate.. That's what has been going on, so, all is good.
Have a good one, no hard feelings here.   :)

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

...What is missing from Evil Urges?  Apparently the ability to have an intelligent conversation-about having a conversation about criticisms and the aforementioned "fanboyism" (certainly the tween-est comment I've read thus far).

Jesus, fucking lighten up.  If we can't talk about talking then obviously the conversation has descended into "Fuck you, fuck me" territory.

So, with all that said...

[size=36]My cat's breath smells like cat food[/size]

[CC]

Killerwolf, I think you mean well but the way you express yourself is just a little weird. 'Tremendously let down' because it's not sounding haunting enough and it's nothing like the first 3 albums? I don't think the band promised you a haunting album that would sound like their earlier records, did they? Cause only if they did, you would've had reason to be let down. Evil Urges is exactly the album they want to let out into the world, nothing's missing, it's all there. If you don't like it, fine, they sure can't please every single person in the world, but saying you were tremendously let down kinda sucks. They like change, moving forward, exploring. Not everybody is gonna like every change but saying an album is lacking because it's not what YOU want it to sound like makes no sense. Am I making sense?

Welcome to the forum  :)

[Bigsky]

Killerwolf, I think you mean well but the way you express yourself is just a little weird. 'Tremendously let down' because it's not sounding haunting enough and it's nothing like the first 3 albums? I don't think the band promised you a haunting album that would sound like their earlier records, did they? Cause only if they did, you would've had reason to be let down. Evil Urges is exactly the album they want to let out into the world, nothing's missing, it's all there. If you don't like it, fine, they sure can't please every single person in the world, but saying you were tremendously let down kinda sucks. They like change, moving forward, exploring. Not everybody is gonna like every change but saying an album is lacking because it's not what YOU want it to sound like makes no sense. Am I making sense?

Welcome to the forum  :)

Nicely said.

I think killerwolf has left the building...he hasn't replied to this thread since the second page. It seems like he just wanted to start a fire and than watch it burn...

[Coltrane]

First of all, the OP was being very disingenuous. Why would your first post on a FAN forum be a negative review. Why post at all??? It makes absolutely no sense.

Because as a FAN he has a right to express his opinion be it positive or negative.  He's bought the records, listened, digested and he's telling us what he thinks.  The fact that it makes 'no sense' to you makes perfect sense to me funnily enough.  Your emphasis on the FAN forum suggests that on a FAN forum only positive viewpoints should be expressed.  Or perhaps only positive viewpoints on your first post?  

My entire point was and will always be that not only is this band different (they operate differently.....they send out a different vibe), but THIS FORUM has always been different.

You have no point.  Different how?  You'd think they were the fucking Magic Band or The Residents.  How exaclty do the operate differently from all those other bands out there?  What's the different vibe?  Expand and explain please why this band are different from every other band out there whose ever existed.  Im all ears.  Really.  

This forum has always been different?  Of course it's UNIQUE isn't it?   ::)

Third: maybe i'm just a little upset because after the SNL performance, I had this thought that the band was sort of no longer "my band." That so many more people know of and enjoy them that there was bound to be riff-raff stumbling into our/my community and pissing us/ me off.........

The crux.  Those pesky riff raff eh coming along and fucking up your mojo by being stupid enough to like a band you like.  Fucking bovine masses eh?  

It's just a rock n roll band folks.  Just a rock n roll band.

"just a rock and roll band"???????? man, you really don't understand, do you?

go and search the forum for the post where I explain what Jim and the boys did for my wife and I (after she almost fucking died!) and get back to me.

[upstatestruggler]

    Upstatestruggler posts that she thinks she knows this (type of)guy.  How do you gather that from a review of an album.  If I posted a review of Z it would not be a glowing review of an album that in infallible;  there a songs I like and dont like on it, same as the OP here feels about Evil Urges.  Does that mean I'M that kind of guy? I'm not.  I am the guy that gets there early stays at front up against the state, and rocks the hell out.   If you dont like reviews, dont read them.  That would prevent you from listening to a new album and hearing what a reviewer is talking about.
   

as long as this isn't papa joe simpson, I am happy to respond. the way that dude talks about his daughter's jugs all the time bugs me.

I love to generalize. why the fuck not? I have found that the law of averages proves that some guy with an opinion large enough to poop out a Klee Irwin's daughter's sized turd is usually the kind of guy that will take up space where people should be enjoying music to talk with his friends about his status as a man of wealth and taste. I never said sheeeit about people rocking out in the front row. just talking out. anyway, semantics!

all I was trying to say was this- and I will say it again!- music is subjective. I am personally quite cynical in general, but I don't really bother to comment too heavily on art that I don't like. I just happen to prefer commenting on art that I like. I would feel a little jerky [unless I was trying to be inflammatory, of course-hmm] posting a- no matter which way you slice or spin it- fairly negative review of something that someone created on their own site. I wouldn't go to a painter's site and be like, "although I used to love so-and-so's abstract art,  his new shit is just a little too Thomas Kincaide (sp?)". *

not that the jacket can't handle, hold up to, or appreciate criticism!

p.s. jon t- no shame in the sweet baby james game! you and a lotta people...

*first person to call me out on a post that I have made which pans somebody's art gets a tin of my world famous bourbon balls. just to be fair. I ain't perfect- just damn close!

[logan5ive]

What is missing from Evil Urges? Nothing. It's the album MMJ wanted it to be- warts and all. I'm sure they hope people enjoy and dig it for what it is. Is it great? I think so. Is it perfect? No. But what really is? Imperfections, oddities, etc. are what makes life (music, art, people, etc.) interesting and unique.

Carry on...

[ManNamedTruth]

! If you thought that Z was overproduced pop music,

Anyone who thinks that is an idiot.

[The DARK]

I think its time for a war cry...

DEATH TO THIS THREAD!!!!

[PapaJoeBear]

I now pronounce this thread:

[killerwolf]

    I am sorry to keep beating this dead horse..this will be my final post on this topic. I am sorry to have caused such a whirlwind.  I am sometimes over opinionated (and a proud music snob)  One thing that many, so many of you missed, is that I first heard most many of  the new songs on the St.Davids recordings.  I was blown away by all of them.  I was only disappointed when I heard the cleaned up, slicked produced versions of those songs.  If I had never heard the acoustic performances (in my opinion, better, more heart felt  versions of those songs) I would have probably not had anything negative to say about most of the new album.   I try to be honest with myself, first as a musician and a music fan, and I will always call it like I see it, especially if something important to me fails to live up to my expectations.
  I listen to Evil Urges at least once a day, and have every day since I got it.  (about 3 weeks now), I forced my little sister to listen to Highly Suspicious in the car yesterday and she made a very uncomfortable face!
   I fell asleep to the Okonokos DVD version of "Dondante" and it blew my subconscious mind last night.   I must confess to having recieved a burned copy of EU  from my cousin, so I didn't technically steal it! I was the kid who snooped through my parents house and found all my presents two weeks before Christmas.  I simply do not have the will power to resist hearing the new material from one of my all time favorite bands.  Like I said before, I have still preordered the real disc, and will continue to buy anything else MMJ puts out as long as it isn't total crap.  
 Tracey, I am sorry about the harsh comments, no hard feelings here.    Goat Boy, I dig your style and Papa Joe seems to be the most rational person on this forum by far.  
 I understand that music is a deeply personal, sometimes religious thing to many people.  I was not trying to force my views on anyone, just wanting to express my own feelings.   I wasn't trying to start any shit with anyone,  I am not the guy who pushes to the front of the line and I speak very quietly and reservedly with people in public.  I don't even drink at shows ever because I don't want to miss the music.
 This band doesn't belong to anyone.  It belongs to everyone that loves and appreciates what they do, for whatever reason that person may have.    SNL is not going ruin MMJ and neither is a message board online.  
 How many posts does one have to make to no longer be a "newbie"?  Actually, that middle school bully bullshit name calling needs to come to an end if anyone is ever supposed to take any of this seriously.
 Thanks!

[searchinbig]

Hey all,

Just wanted to comment on this topic. I have not heard the album in it's entirety but so far the songs I have heard are awesome. I can explain. Lets not forget in order for a band to be creative they must take different turns and try different things. If you do not you become stagnant and the music, the band and the fans suffer. These guys rock and they rock hard, never a dissappointment to see them LIVE. I am a seasoned Dead Head, my first show being in 1977. I remember when the Dead released Terrapin Station, an album with an orchestra playing. All heads went WTF? it's the end. Then Shakedown Street came out in 1978 and heads were all but puking. Disco Dead, what the hell have they done? Albeit, songs from those two albums turned out to be epic LIVE performances. Fear not, the only thing missing from EU will be the other songs that have not been added, the 30 plus JJ showed up with at the time they recorded is what I speak of. Lets not get crazy over this and enjoy it. MMJ will still rock LIVE.  :)

[Goat Boy]

I'm sorry you thought REM's later output was shit. Some people on here dig it, and you've basically asserted your opinion in a way that attempts to trump theirs, by just flat-out calling it "shit." That's not productive--that generates an argument.

Well it is shit.  Imo of course.  I'm sure I don't have to add that to everything I say do I?!  Just because I state something to be crap does not imply I am trumping anybody elses opinions.  I am merely stating my opinion is an forceful, blunt way that sometimes gets others with opposing views to chime in.  You say it's not productive but at least this thread has generated something and judging by the number of views and posts on this thread then I could argue it is a productive approach.

As for REM, do you think they would've put out something they didn't themselves enjoy? Did Buck's Beach Boy obsession lead him to produce something he himself did not like? I'm sure he dug what he was creating, and I'm sure if you were interested in doing so, you could find some really cool things in that album.

I don't quite see your point here man.  Artists make music for themselves first and foremost and their audience second.  It's irrelevant to me what Buck thought or thinks about Reveal or Around The Sun.  I know he's admitted that these records have faults and he understands the criticisms put it that way which suggests he knew they weren't quite up to scratch when the band were making them or, at the very least, some distance has amended their critical standing with him personally.  

Is it pretentious of you to write them off because it's different and you don't like it? It depends. If you don't like it, that's alright. But if you don't think anyone else should like it because you don't like it, then yes, that pretentious.

Well I never wrote them off cos it's 'different' and what I 'think' is purely for me to know and cannot be known explicitly based on what I post.  I am Goat Boy on here, somebody else in real life.  That's not to say I pretend to be somebody else but it's a messageboard after all so perhaps I am slightly more brutish and argumentative on here than real life but there's reasons for that.  I merely labeled it shit and gave a couple of reasons which I will now expand.  It is not because it is 'different' and therefore I don't like it.  That makes me sound like some boring music fan who doesn't 'get it' when a band does something a little bit experimental and therefore dismisses it.  I write it off cos it's simply not very good and judging by the reaction of many long time fans - some I know personally and others I know from a messageboard - I am hardly alone in expressing these thoughts am I?  Up, Reveal and Around The Sun were met with a fairly apathetic response in general and each release was in turn worse than the last.  By REM standards they are weak.  All in my opinion of course!  I'd defend Up to a point as there are some good songs on there alongside the guff.  Walk Unafraid and Falls To Climb for example.  At My Most Beautiful is an example of the guff.  A weak Pet Sounds homage that sounds unconvincing and slight.  I likened it to second rate High Llamas.  I stand by that.  Reveal however is a turkey.   This is where they really lost it for me.  First of all the production is overdone and fussily executed.  It's merely a disguise, a ruse, to cover up the fact the songs and melodies just aren't there.  It's a smokescreen.  An illusion basically and judging by the amount of time they spent working on it, it would suggest to me that they were aware of this as well.  Sonically the record is suffocating and doesn't breathe.  It's buried under too much weight, pro-tools and all that shite.  It's an expensive cake with all sorts of fancy bits but ultimately the cake itself doesn't taste that good and the fancy bits are sweet as hell and leave you feeling a bit sick from overdosing on sugar.  

Reveal feels like an album of pastiches.  For example Reno is REM does a Glenn Campbell Wichita Lineman thaang complete with requisite twangy guitar.  Beachball is The Beach Boys and so on.  Imitation Of Life actually feels like a pastiche of an REM tune!  The lyrics, the chords, the melody sounds tired and recycled - devoid of genuine inspiration. By the end they are even parodying themselves man, gnawing at their combined leg and I've heard it all before I'm afraid.  The thrill is gone.  The band were clearly suffering a crises of identity compounded probably by the confused reaction to Up (significantly a better record) and they ended up making an album that was lost in the bands and Bucks especially, interior world.  I have no desire to hear Bucks pale retreads of his personal favourites I'm afraid.  And it's not out of some Luddite tendency or urge to hear 'old-school' REM.  Reveal was merely a failed experiment and the sound of a band clearly lost and struggling to regain their musical identity.  It didn't sound like an REM record.  It was basically REM does '.......' with a skewed emphasis on production that unsurprisingly didn't leave much room for the bands personality to come through and seemed very un-REM.  It bored me to tears frankly.  That's why I dislike Reveal.  

New Adventures was the last REM album that gave me a real kick and that's over ten years ago.  Ten years!  It's sad but there you go.

Peace man, seriously  :) ;)

[Goat Boy]

Yes just a rock n roll band.  That's all they are.

To be honest I have no idea what your point is.  So the band personally helped you and your wife out during a difficult time and therefore they are no ordinary band?  I dont see the relevance to the music at all which, after all, is how bands are defined.  Not by what deeds they do in their own lives.  And of course I dont understand.  How could I understand or get your very personal reason for thinking they are no 'ordinary band'?  I mean it's great that they did whatever they did but it has no bearing on the quality of the music nor my judgement on that music.  

[Goat Boy]

Have a good one, no hard feelings here.   :)

Same to you.  It's a messageboard and we (mostly) strangers on the internet so no hard feelings AT ALL.

Peace man,

GB

[ycartrob]

killerwolf, thanks for the post. My goal here (and some would disagree) is not to run people off, but to share the beauty of the music. My criticism is all game, and in jest, and so over the top that I think it's obvious. It's hard to get all that conveyed to strangers on the internet. Plus, it's not beyond me that I can be a dick.

Someone once said that arguing about music is like dancing about architecture.

~peace~

[Angry Ewok]

My goal here (and some would disagree) is not to run people off[...]

Let's be clear... if you were some kind of forum assassin that could run particular people out of here, you would be the second most important person in the forum.

I'll always be the first. Or CC. Probably CC, yeah.

[Coltrane]

Yes just a rock n roll band.  That's all they are.

To be honest I have no idea what your point is.  So the band personally helped you and your wife out during a difficult time and therefore they are no ordinary band?  I dont see the relevance to the music at all which, after all, is how bands are defined.  Not by what deeds they do in their own lives.  And of course I dont understand.  How could I understand or get your very personal reason for thinking they are no 'ordinary band'?  I mean it's great that they did whatever they did but it has no bearing on the quality of the music nor my judgement on that music.  

i guess i just don't express myself well enough.

They're not just a band. They a group of great people who produce amazing music which has more than the usual effect.......much, much more.

whatever.

it's clear that we can't get past these language games. so we'll just leave it at that.

welcome.......

[Bigsky]

I now pronounce this thread:

I thought this thread was [size=24]TOAST[/size]

...but it's nice to see everyone getting along...how sweet