Production On MMJ Records, a discussion....

[sweatboard]

I will venture to say that Jim James is actually one of my very favorite record "producers" of all time.  Sure, the first two records were "lo-fi" but the production on them was nothing short of "genius"....PERIOD!!  ISM seemed like an effort to go more "hi-fi"...."an experiment with horns and a bigger budget"....... which should have been the album title by the way.  :)  Still, I think  ISM was a complete vision that came to a beautiful conclusion in the form of the record that was eventually released.  


I think Z and EU sound amazingly COHESIVE considering the variety of songs.  I have to give the producers props in that category.  I also have to say they will never be able to salt and pepper a record like Jim.

Here's to Jim producing the next one.  

[tomEisenbraun]

I remember having quite a bit to say about It Still Moves' production a couple years ago, something about it sounding a bit anemic in parts, almost like the guys were trying not to wake up the Quaid family household in the building right next to them as they tracked the guitars. I didn't care for Tommy's bass sound, either.

But minds change.

I came into this band with Carl and Bo on stage. I've never seen a show with Danny and Johnny, and will never know that My Morning Jacket, and to rate the way ISM was produced against the band that Jim, Tom, Pat, Carl, and Bo are on stage doesn't make sense. The band was Johnny and Danny at that point, and after watching the Conan performance, it hit me that their sound was opened up into a different direction when those two left. Not that they were holding them back, but they had a distinct influence on the sound. I think change is always impetus for even more change, and with the formation of a new band, Jim was able to give Carl and Bo different roles, and they opened up into this massive all-consuming rock beast that they've been growing toward today.

I should've paid more attention: "Lowdown" sounds nothing like it once did. My second Jacket purchase was the 2004 Bonnaroo show, and I should've noted right then and there that, even in this early stage of the new incarnation the guys were moving forward and turning up the gain bit by bit in front of us. I shouldve really recognized it when, later that summer (2005), Jim ended the Taste of Randolph St. festival performance with a freaking metalled out version of One big Holiday and massive bear howls. What the fuuuuck?

He was definitely being crazy, but I missed the fact that, as linear as the progression from 2001 to 2005 had been, there was a big leap in the middle when Bo and Carl came in. Again, this is not to say better or worse at all, but there was a dynamic shift in the progression of their sound with that lineup change. Yes, we had Jim's bobcat howls all the way through It's About Twilight Now at the Rud in 2000, but this wasn't exactly the same thing--in 2000 Jim was younger, newer to MMJ and they had a lot more to prove on stage, and a few less eyeballs on them at that point. They hadn't grown up as a band yet. In 2005, the guys were a much different band, one that people might expect to have settled down, mellowed a little, and gotten a little bit of that "grey hair" onto their older songs. Not at all. In March of 2006, Rites of Spring, Jim ends Gideon with screaming and then an Eddie Van Halen two handed tapping solo while everyone watched their favorite southern-fried chicken-pickin' Skynnard/Foghat revival in complete awe. He was celebrating life and wasn't backing down. He also didn't give a fuck about Southern rock. At that point in time, I don't think we did either.

And back to my original thought, the band as I first heard them at Bonnaroo 2005 was not the same band that recorded 2003's It Still Moves in any way, shape or form. It was, however, the same band (with the sweet exception of Patrick) that created At Dawn in 2001. As such, ISM is the logical progression from At Dawn, not, necessarily, the logical regression from Z. I think with Z, the band were able to work with a great producer in order to find the way to really thicken up their sound and bring it a little closer to the listener, learning how to more properly lay on that reverb we'd all grown so used to. I wouldn't be surprised if it's pared down even more on Evil Urges.

All this to say, I can really enjoy It Still Moves again, because I've stopped worrying about the production. If I want the rock 'em sock 'em no holds barred take on "One Big Holiday," I'll listen to Okonokos. If I want it how they first envisioned it, I'll listen to ISM. My qualms with that area of the album were pretty much taken care of by reversing the way I was making sense of the band, and it opened up the back catalog a step even further for me.

[freeport]

This thread is over.

Seriously, that was beautifully stated tom.

[Bigsky]

I remember having quite a bit to say about It Still Moves' production a couple years ago, something about it sounding a bit anemic in parts, almost like the guys were trying not to wake up the Quaid family household in the building right next to them as they tracked the guitars. I didn't care for Tommy's bass sound, either.

But minds change.

I came into this band with Carl and Bo on stage. I've never seen a show with Danny and Johnny, and will never know that My Morning Jacket, and to rate the way ISM was produced against the band that Jim, Tom, Pat, Carl, and Bo are on stage doesn't make sense. The band was Johnny and Danny at that point, and after watching the Conan performance, it hit me that their sound was opened up into a different direction when those two left. Not that they were holding them back, but they had a distinct influence on the sound. I think change is always impetus for even more change, and with the formation of a new band, Jim was able to give Carl and Bo different roles, and they opened up into this massive all-consuming rock beast that they've been growing toward today.

I should've paid more attention: "Lowdown" sounds nothing like it once did. My second Jacket purchase was the 2004 Bonnaroo show, and I should've noted right then and there that, even in this early stage of the new incarnation the guys were moving forward and turning up the gain bit by bit in front of us. I shouldve really recognized it when, later that summer (2005), Jim ended the Taste of Randolph St. festival performance with a freaking metalled out version of One big Holiday and massive bear howls. What the fuuuuck?

He was definitely being crazy, but I missed the fact that, as linear as the progression from 2001 to 2005 had been, there was a big leap in the middle when Bo and Carl came in. Again, this is not to say better or worse at all, but there was a dynamic shift in the progression of their sound with that lineup change. Yes, we had Jim's bobcat howls all the way through It's About Twilight Now at the Rud in 2000, but this wasn't exactly the same thing--in 2000 Jim was younger, newer to MMJ and they had a lot more to prove on stage, and a few less eyeballs on them at that point. They hadn't grown up as a band yet. In 2005, the guys were a much different band, one that people might expect to have settled down, mellowed a little, and gotten a little bit of that "grey hair" onto their older songs. Not at all. In March of 2006, Rites of Spring, Jim ends Gideon with screaming and then an Eddie Van Halen two handed tapping solo while everyone watched their favorite southern-fried chicken-pickin' Skynnard/Foghat revival in complete awe. He was celebrating life and wasn't backing down. He also didn't give a fuck about Southern rock. At that point in time, I don't think we did either.

And back to my original thought, the band as I first heard them at Bonnaroo 2005 was not the same band that recorded 2003's It Still Moves in any way, shape or form. It was, however, the same band (with the sweet exception of Patrick) that created At Dawn in 2001. As such, ISM is the logical progression from At Dawn, not, necessarily, the logical regression from Z. I think with Z, the band were able to work with a great producer in order to find the way to really thicken up their sound and bring it a little closer to the listener, learning how to more properly lay on that reverb we'd all grown so used to. I wouldn't be surprised if it's pared down even more on Evil Urges.

All this to say, I can really enjoy It Still Moves again, because I've stopped worrying about the production. If I want the rock 'em sock 'em no holds barred take on "One Big Holiday," I'll listen to Okonokos. If I want it how they first envisioned it, I'll listen to ISM. My qualms with that area of the album were pretty much taken care of by reversing the way I was making sense of the band, and it opened up the back catalog a step even further for me.

Tom, that was perfect for me.  Since I am still a newbie, and really don't know MMJ yet (except that I know I love their music) it helped put everything into perspective. My MMJ experience started with Okonokos, and I have gradually worked my way back to TTF.  I have tried to figure out MMJ's musical development from listening to their collection with an open mind. Okonokos was a very hard album to let go of while listening to their earlier stuff. I eventually realized that it was a different band, or at least a different time for the band.

Lately, in efforts to distract me from EU, I have been searching and listening to MMJ's early bootlegs. I have been trying to find the earliest to see where this journey all began. I have always done this with bands that I discover late in their development. I am too young to have seen Bob Marley, but he is one of my favorite musicians. Like MMJ, his music is a religious event for me. I was first introduced to his later stuff, Survival, Uprising. I then was curious on how he got to that level of music. So, I started exploring his ska and dance hall years. It was very different, but still Bob Marley. The main difference was the production of the music. Marley's early stuff was more connected to Jamaica and its culture. His later albums were Americanized, and very different in sound and song choice. This development is natural and I think universal in the music industry. There are not many bands that don't change, weather it's because of band members coming and going, a cultural change, or a production change.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that I find it interesting how Tom has so clearly given me a little history of MMJ's development from past to present, while I have been going the other way. My exploration from Okonokos to TTF has been wonderful, and I think it has given me the advantage of not having any assumptions about MMJ's development. Does that make any sense?

[BH]

Nice thoughts everyone.  That was fun to read.

I think MMJ's new sound and direction "needed" an additional experienced producer maybe, but I hope Jim realizes how great he is at producing.  Like Brian said, the early albums might seem a bit "lo-fi" but they are put together brilliantly in my opionion.  As I have stated before, I love the fact that the band is evolving and changing.  But I also think Jim is brilliant, and a true musical artist, therefore I hope that someday he will do his own production again on something stipped down.  Maybe 10 years from now, he will spring a solo album on us or something like that.

You know what would be cool (but I realize will probably never happen) would be to hear the demos on Z and someday later, Evil Urges. To see Jim's early vision and hear what a more stripped down rough version would sound like would be sweet.

Anyway, this is one of my favorite topics on the band so I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

[red]

Tom, I seriously love reading each and all of your posts.    

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

At some point in the past, there was a heated discussion (imagine that) about the lo fi productions of TTF and AD, with some camps calling for the reissue/reproduction of TTF with "hi fi" production values.  I believe I was advocating just leaving it be, it's brilliant just the way it is, warts and all.  It's what it was meant to sound like.

Like Raw Power, some have a need to redo it in their own image/taste.  Iggy has been defiant over the years about reproducing that record, preferring the vocals all in the red.  I can't imagine what that record would sound like with different mix.  TTF is the same - it wouldn't be the same record anymore.

[Goat Boy]

Like Raw Power, some have a need to redo it in their own image/taste.  Iggy has been defiant over the years about reproducing that record, preferring the vocals all in the red.  I can't imagine what that record would sound like with different mix.  TTF is the same - it wouldn't be the same record anymore.

There are two mixes of Raw Power.  The original one and the '97(?) remix overseen by Mr. Pop which is the one most people have heard.

[Angry Ewok]

[...]Jim ended the Taste of Randolph St. festival performance with a freaking metalled out version of One big Holiday and massive bear howls.

I demand satisfaction.

Link please.

[ManNamedTruth]

I think Jim did the best production on At Dawn, TTF and ISM sound more lo-fi to me.

[ycartrob]

I would not mind hearing a reworked studio version of I Will Be There When You Die.

so, I'll need that by Sunday, Jim, if you're reading this.

Jim?

[tomEisenbraun]

[...]Jim ended the Taste of Randolph St. festival performance with a freaking metalled out version of One big Holiday and massive bear howls.

I demand satisfaction.

Link please.

http://www.archive.org/details/mmj2005-06-18

;)

[getinthevan]

[...]Jim ended the Taste of Randolph St. festival performance with a freaking metalled out version of One big Holiday and massive bear howls.

I demand satisfaction.

Link please.

I'm pretty sure thats my favorite version of OBH.  

[demo]

At Dawn sounds BIG. "Death is the Easy Way" was the first MMJ song I heard and I remember being impressed with the sound.

[tomEisenbraun]

At Dawn sounds BIG. "Death is the Easy Way" was the first MMJ song I heard and I remember being impressed with the sound.

Good Lord! And the drums on "Lowdown"??!

[demo]

At Dawn sounds BIG. "Death is the Easy Way" was the first MMJ song I heard and I remember being impressed with the sound.

Good Lord! And the drums on "Lowdown"??!

The whole album is amazing... not only the sound... my favourite of all albums... It Still Moves has equally amazing songs but the sound is not...

[The Big Come Up]

At Dawn sounds BIG. "Death is the Easy Way" was the first MMJ song I heard and I remember being impressed with the sound.

Good Lord! And the drums on "Lowdown"??!

I agree that the best production on any MMJ release thus far was on AD. What I love about Jim and the production on each seperate release is that production choices purposefully support the atmposphere that each album strives for. TTF's lo-fi's feel gives it that wonderfully dark, mysterious quality, ISM's expansive soundscapes make it feel more epic, and the cleanliness of Z served the precise, focused qualities of that record well. At Dawn is a record that runs the gamut of emotions, and Jim's production lets you hear these feelings long before the words do.