NYE Roll Call....

Started by bold99, Nov 18, 2008, 11:15 AM

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AMightyCaporal

#80
Nov 26, 2008, 09:08 AM
AMightyPirate and his 5 crew members (2 MMJ concert virgins) making port from New Jersey
Oh I'll never say I knew you, but my heart can't wait to meet you on the other side

Penny Lane

#81
Nov 26, 2008, 10:10 AM
QuoteAMightyPirate and his 5 crew members (2 MMJ concert virgins) making port from New Jersey

you're not in hoboken, are you? ;-)
but come on...there's nothing sexy about poop. Nothing.  -bbill

DaFunkyPrecedent

#82
Nov 26, 2008, 02:05 PM
IM SO FUCKIN EXCITED!!!!!!!
God damn those shaky knees.

j_rud

#83
Nov 26, 2008, 07:30 PM
1. bold99 (GA PIT) +boston group.                        
2. Pennylane (GA PIT) Hoboken
3. Vespachick (GA PIT) Portland, OR
4. haldon (GA PIT) Miami, FL + 3 friends (GA PIT) St. Petersburg, FL and Savannah, GA
5. DaFunkyPrecedent (GA PIT) + 5 friends.  San Francisco, Ca.
6. Reverand ToneZone (GA Pit) Los Angeles, CA +1
7. Walterfredo and better half (GA Pit) (San Francisco, CA) + 4
8. joey rogo (row A sec 127) + 3 friends from all over ny
9. salacious D (230) Illinois +hubs
10. ctdeadhead (GA PIT) Hartford, CT +wife
11. ALady (GA Pit) Chicago, IL
12 kydiddle (section 6) Hershey, PA, + 1 (maybe)
13.DirtyJerzee (Section 94) North Bergan, NJ +2
14. Hood16 ( GA Pit)- long island, flying solo
15. October (GA) + 2 friends (also GA)
16. jmk (Section 12) New Jersey + 1
17.  Sassbox (Floor, Sec 6)
18. EasyMorninRebel (Sec 90, Row F) Ottawa, Ontario + wife
19. the_Wizzard (GA) & husband as well as 2 more friends from Portland + 1 from SF (needs GA still  Roll Eyes) + 1 from CT and + 2 from Brooklyn.                                                                                
20. Blenderbaby(section 208 up in the rafters).    
21. bluesky
22. Crispy (PIT) +1 - Oklahoma
23. easy way (Sec. 79) +1 coming from ATLANTA....
24. BringdaRuckus (Sec. 123) +5  
25. BigEvil + wife (if she's not pregnant) Bloomfiled, CT
26. NoVa_NoLa + 1 (GA PIT) - Arlington, VA
27. idioteque +1 (GA PIT) - Boston, MA
28. ChiefOkonko (LA) and JacketGirl (Chicago)
29. ms. yvon +1 (los angles & nyc!)  PIT!  WOO!
30. j_rud +1 (sec 10, Philly)
Say friend, you got any more of that good sasparilla?

siserilla

#84
Nov 26, 2008, 09:38 PM
1. bold99 (GA PIT) +boston group.                        
2. Pennylane (GA PIT) Hoboken
3. Vespachick (GA PIT) Portland, OR
4. haldon (GA PIT) Miami, FL + 3 friends (GA PIT) St. Petersburg, FL and Savannah, GA
5. DaFunkyPrecedent (GA PIT) + 5 friends.  San Francisco, Ca.
6. Reverand ToneZone (GA Pit) Los Angeles, CA +1
7. Walterfredo and better half (GA Pit) (San Francisco, CA) + 4
8. joey rogo (row A sec 127) + 3 friends from all over ny
9. salacious D (230) Illinois +hubs
10. ctdeadhead (GA PIT) Hartford, CT +wife
11. ALady (GA Pit) Chicago, IL
12 kydiddle (section 6) Hershey, PA, + 1 (maybe)
13.DirtyJerzee (Section 94) North Bergan, NJ +2
14. Hood16 ( GA Pit)- long island, flying solo
15. October (GA) + 2 friends (also GA)
16. jmk (Section 12) New Jersey + 1
17.  Sassbox (Floor, Sec 6)
18. EasyMorninRebel (Sec 90, Row F) Ottawa, Ontario + wife
19. the_Wizzard (GA) & husband as well as 2 more friends from Portland + 1 from SF (needs GA still  Roll Eyes) + 1 from CT and + 2 from Brooklyn.                                                                                
20. Blenderbaby(section 208 up in the rafters).    
21. bluesky
22. Crispy (PIT) +1 - Oklahoma
23. easy way (Sec. 79) +1 coming from ATLANTA....
24. BringdaRuckus (Sec. 123) +5  
25. BigEvil + wife (if she's not pregnant) Bloomfiled, CT
26. NoVa_NoLa + 1 (GA PIT) - Arlington, VA
27. idioteque +1 (GA PIT) - Boston, MA
28. ChiefOkonko (LA) and JacketGirl (Chicago)
29. ms. yvon +1 (los angles & nyc!)  PIT!  WOO!
30. j_rud +1 (sec 10, Philly)
31. siserilla + 1 (sec 41) Gainesville, FL
The fact that my heart's beating is all the proof you need.

AMightyCaporal

#85
Dec 02, 2008, 10:54 AM
Quote
QuoteAMightyPirate and his 5 crew members (2 MMJ concert virgins) making port from New Jersey

you're not in hoboken, are you? ;-)

haha!  I sail from a much fairer place!

I forgot to mention that several people will be viewing the concert through remote viewing- kinda like Being John Malkovich- but less dirty and more rockin.
Oh I'll never say I knew you, but my heart can't wait to meet you on the other side

alexzbik

#86
Dec 02, 2008, 11:55 AM
1. bold99 (GA PIT) +boston group.                        
2. Pennylane (GA PIT) Hoboken
3. Vespachick (GA PIT) Portland, OR
4. haldon (GA PIT) Miami, FL + 3 friends (GA PIT) St. Petersburg, FL and Savannah, GA
5. DaFunkyPrecedent (GA PIT) + 5 friends.  San Francisco, Ca.
6. Reverand ToneZone (GA Pit) Los Angeles, CA +1
7. Walterfredo and better half (GA Pit) (San Francisco, CA) + 4
8. joey rogo (row A sec 127) + 3 friends from all over ny
9. salacious D (230) Illinois +hubs
10. ctdeadhead (GA PIT) Hartford, CT +wife
11. ALady (GA Pit) Chicago, IL
12 kydiddle (section 6) Hershey, PA, + 1 (maybe)
13.DirtyJerzee (Section 94) North Bergan, NJ +2
14. Hood16 ( GA Pit)- long island, flying solo
15. October (GA) + 2 friends (also GA)
16. jmk (Section 12) New Jersey + 1
17.  Sassbox (Floor, Sec 6)
18. EasyMorninRebel (Sec 90, Row F) Ottawa, Ontario + wife
19. the_Wizzard (GA) & husband as well as 2 more friends from Portland + 1 from SF (needs GA still  Roll Eyes) + 1 from CT and + 2 from Brooklyn.                                                                                
20. Blenderbaby(section 208 up in the rafters).    
21. bluesky
22. Crispy (PIT) +1 - Oklahoma
23. easy way (Sec. 79) +1 coming from ATLANTA....
24. BringdaRuckus (Sec. 123) +5  
25. BigEvil + wife (if she's not pregnant) Bloomfiled, CT
26. NoVa_NoLa + 1 (GA PIT) - Arlington, VA
27. idioteque +1 (GA PIT) - Boston, MA
28. ChiefOkonko (LA) and JacketGirl (Chicago)
29. ms. yvon +1 (los angles & nyc!)  PIT!  WOO!
30. j_rud +1 (sec 10, Philly)
31. siserilla + 1 (sec 41) Gainesville, FL
32. alexzbik + 3 (GA PIT) - Philly
Stolen as the war begun, this time your soul is my one.

kydiddle

#87
Dec 02, 2008, 12:09 PM
QuoteIM SO FUCKIN EXCITED!!!!!!!

I say that to myself multiple times a day.

Can't flippin wait!!
Cow temperature.

Bigsky

#88
Dec 02, 2008, 12:12 PM
Quote
QuoteIM SO FUCKIN EXCITED!!!!!!!

I say that to myself multiple times a day.

Can't flippin wait!!

I don't think I've ever been this excited for NYE...I can't believe it's this month.... :D

bababooey

#89
Dec 02, 2008, 08:57 PM
1. bold99 (GA PIT) +boston group.                        
2. Pennylane (GA PIT) Hoboken
3. Vespachick (GA PIT) Portland, OR
4. haldon (GA PIT) Miami, FL + 3 friends (GA PIT) St. Petersburg, FL and Savannah, GA
5. DaFunkyPrecedent (GA PIT) + 5 friends.  San Francisco, Ca.
6. Reverand ToneZone (GA Pit) Los Angeles, CA +1
7. Walterfredo and better half (GA Pit) (San Francisco, CA) + 4
8. joey rogo (row A sec 127) + 3 friends from all over ny
9. salacious D (230) Illinois +hubs
10. ctdeadhead (GA PIT) Hartford, CT +wife
11. ALady (GA Pit) Chicago, IL
12 kydiddle (section 6) Hershey, PA, + 1 (maybe)
13.DirtyJerzee (Section 94) North Bergan, NJ +2
14. Hood16 ( GA Pit)- long island, flying solo
15. October (GA) + 2 friends (also GA)
16. jmk (Section 12) New Jersey + 1
17.  Sassbox (Floor, Sec 6)
18. EasyMorninRebel (Sec 90, Row F) Ottawa, Ontario + wife
19. the_Wizzard (GA) & husband as well as 2 more friends from Portland + 1 from SF (needs GA still  Roll Eyes) + 1 from CT and + 2 from Brooklyn.                                                                                
20. Blenderbaby(section 208 up in the rafters).    
21. bluesky
22. Crispy (PIT) +1 - Oklahoma
23. easy way (Sec. 79) +1 coming from ATLANTA....
24. BringdaRuckus (Sec. 123) +5  
25. BigEvil + wife (if she's not pregnant) Bloomfiled, CT
26. NoVa_NoLa + 1 (GA PIT) - Arlington, VA
27. idioteque +1 (GA PIT) - Boston, MA
28. ChiefOkonko (LA) and JacketGirl (Chicago)
29. ms. yvon +1 (los angles & nyc!)  PIT!  WOO!
30. j_rud +1 (sec 10, Philly)
31. siserilla + 1 (sec 41) Gainesville, FL
32. alexzbik + 3 (GA PIT) - Philly
33. bababooey + 1 (GA PIT)- Columbus, GA

easy way

#90
Dec 03, 2008, 12:02 AM
My sister, her hubby and my brother are in now!!! It's gonna be a family affair....damn, I love these kids...so glad they're makin' it. All Jacket freaks as well.
:) :D :)
"the time is with the month of winter solstice, when the change is due to come..."

buzzman1

#91
Dec 03, 2008, 03:24 PM
hello everyone

im new to this so go easy on me ha. i cant hide my excitement anymore! my girlfriend and i are coming nye all the way from st helens,merseyside in england and we both cant wait!!! now we have seen the jacket a few times before but this is gonna be mind blowing! so if any of you hear a couple of strange accents dont be afraid to have a chat,oh i'll be the one with a massive grin on my face lol

laters

ms. yvon

#92
Dec 03, 2008, 04:00 PM
1. bold99 (GA PIT) +boston group.                        
2. Pennylane (GA PIT) Hoboken
3. Vespachick (GA PIT) Portland, OR
4. haldon (GA PIT) Miami, FL + 3 friends (GA PIT) St. Petersburg, FL and Savannah, GA
5. DaFunkyPrecedent (GA PIT) + 5 friends.  San Francisco, Ca.
6. Reverand ToneZone (GA Pit) Los Angeles, CA +1
7. Walterfredo and better half (GA Pit) (San Francisco, CA) + 4
8. joey rogo (row A sec 127) + 3 friends from all over ny
9. salacious D (230) Illinois +hubs
10. ctdeadhead (GA PIT) Hartford, CT +wife
11. ALady (GA Pit) Chicago, IL
12 kydiddle (section 6) Hershey, PA, + 1 (maybe)
13.DirtyJerzee (Section 94) North Bergan, NJ +2
14. Hood16 ( GA Pit)- long island, flying solo
15. October (GA) + 2 friends (also GA)
16. jmk (Section 12) New Jersey + 1
17.  Sassbox (Floor, Sec 6)
18. EasyMorninRebel (Sec 90, Row F) Ottawa, Ontario + wife
19. the_Wizzard (GA) & husband as well as 2 more friends from Portland + 1 from SF (needs GA still  Roll Eyes) + 1 from CT and + 2 from Brooklyn.                                                                                
20. Blenderbaby(section 208 up in the rafters).    
21. bluesky
22. Crispy (PIT) +1 - Oklahoma
23. easy way (Sec. 79) +1 coming from ATLANTA....
24. BringdaRuckus (Sec. 123) +5  
25. BigEvil + wife (if she's not pregnant) Bloomfiled, CT
26. NoVa_NoLa + 1 (GA PIT) - Arlington, VA
27. idioteque +1 (GA PIT) - Boston, MA
28. ChiefOkonko (LA) and JacketGirl (Chicago)
29. ms. yvon +1 (los angles & nyc!)  PIT!  WOO!
30. j_rud +1 (sec 10, Philly)
31. siserilla + 1 (sec 41) Gainesville, FL
32. alexzbik + 3 (GA PIT) - Philly
33. bababooey + 1 (GA PIT)- Columbus, GA
34. buzzman +1-England!


buzzman, you've been counted.  all the way from england, outstanding!
"i don't mean to brag, i don't mean to boast, but we like hot butter on our breakfast toast."

Ghosts_on_TV

#93
Dec 03, 2008, 05:03 PM
1. bold99 (GA PIT) +boston group.                        
2. Pennylane (GA PIT) Hoboken
3. Vespachick (GA PIT) Portland, OR
4. haldon (GA PIT) Miami, FL + 3 friends (GA PIT) St. Petersburg, FL and Savannah, GA
5. DaFunkyPrecedent (GA PIT) + 5 friends.  San Francisco, Ca.
6. Reverand ToneZone (GA Pit) Los Angeles, CA +1
7. Walterfredo and better half (GA Pit) (San Francisco, CA) + 4
8. joey rogo (row A sec 127) + 3 friends from all over ny
9. salacious D (230) Illinois +hubs
10. ctdeadhead (GA PIT) Hartford, CT +wife
11. ALady (GA Pit) Chicago, IL
12 kydiddle (section 6) Hershey, PA, + 1 (maybe)
13.DirtyJerzee (Section 94) North Bergan, NJ +2
14. Hood16 ( GA Pit)- long island, flying solo
15. October (GA) + 2 friends (also GA)
16. jmk (Section 12) New Jersey + 1
17.  Sassbox (Floor, Sec 6)
18. EasyMorninRebel (Sec 90, Row F) Ottawa, Ontario + wife
19. the_Wizzard (GA) & husband as well as 2 more friends from Portland + 1 from SF (needs GA still  Roll Eyes) + 1 from CT and + 2 from Brooklyn.                                                                                
20. Blenderbaby(section 208 up in the rafters).    
21. bluesky
22. Crispy (PIT) +1 - Oklahoma
23. easy way (Sec. 79) +1 coming from ATLANTA....
24. BringdaRuckus (Sec. 123) +5  
25. BigEvil + wife (if she's not pregnant) Bloomfiled, CT
26. NoVa_NoLa + 1 (GA PIT) - Arlington, VA
27. idioteque +1 (GA PIT) - Boston, MA
28. ChiefOkonko (LA) and JacketGirl (Chicago)
29. ms. yvon +1 (los angles & nyc!)  PIT!  WOO!
30. j_rud +1 (sec 10, Philly)
31. siserilla + 1 (sec 41) Gainesville, FL
32. alexzbik + 3 (GA PIT) - Philly
33. bababooey + 1 (GA PIT)- Columbus, GA
34. buzzman +1-England!
35. Ghosts & Ghostess on TV + Discoball Tom + 1 (PA) GA
Some girls mothers are bigger than others girls mothers...

Penny Lane

#94
Dec 03, 2008, 05:12 PM
Quote1. bold99 (GA PIT) +boston group.                        
2. Pennylane (GA PIT) Hoboken
3. Vespachick (GA PIT) Portland, OR
4. haldon (GA PIT) Miami, FL + 3 friends (GA PIT) St. Petersburg, FL and Savannah, GA
5. DaFunkyPrecedent (GA PIT) + 5 friends.  San Francisco, Ca.
6. Reverand ToneZone (GA Pit) Los Angeles, CA +1
7. Walterfredo and better half (GA Pit) (San Francisco, CA) + 4
8. joey rogo (row A sec 127) + 3 friends from all over ny
9. salacious D (230) Illinois +hubs
10. ctdeadhead (GA PIT) Hartford, CT +wife
11. ALady (GA Pit) Chicago, IL
12 kydiddle (section 6) Hershey, PA, + 1 (maybe)
13.DirtyJerzee (Section 94) North Bergan, NJ +2
14. Hood16 ( GA Pit)- long island, flying solo
15. October (GA) + 2 friends (also GA)
16. jmk (Section 12) New Jersey + 1
17.  Sassbox (Floor, Sec 6)
18. EasyMorninRebel (Sec 90, Row F) Ottawa, Ontario + wife
19. the_Wizzard (GA) & husband as well as 2 more friends from Portland + 1 from SF (needs GA still  Roll Eyes) + 1 from CT and + 2 from Brooklyn.                                                                                
20. Blenderbaby(section 208 up in the rafters).    
21. bluesky
22. Crispy (PIT) +1 - Oklahoma
23. easy way (Sec. 79) +1 coming from ATLANTA....
24. BringdaRuckus (Sec. 123) +5  
25. BigEvil + wife (if she's not pregnant) Bloomfiled, CT
26. NoVa_NoLa + 1 (GA PIT) - Arlington, VA
27. idioteque +1 (GA PIT) - Boston, MA
28. ChiefOkonko (LA) and JacketGirl (Chicago)
29. ms. yvon +1 (los angles & nyc!)  PIT!  WOO!
30. j_rud +1 (sec 10, Philly)
31. siserilla + 1 (sec 41) Gainesville, FL
32. alexzbik + 3 (GA PIT) - Philly
33. bababooey + 1 (GA PIT)- Columbus, GA
34. buzzman +1-England!
35. Ghosts & Ghostess on TV + Discoball Tom + 1 (PA) GA

i think i remember Tom from Bonnaroo? Was he standing behind me (behind you two?)
but come on...there's nothing sexy about poop. Nothing.  -bbill

lasvegas

#95
Dec 03, 2008, 05:28 PM
i will be there with a few. our seats are in section 9 on the floor.

hope to have my all white tux in time.
Is there a doctor in the house tonight?

Ghosts_on_TV

#96
Dec 03, 2008, 10:43 PM
Quote
Quote1. bold99 (GA PIT) +boston group.                        
2. Pennylane (GA PIT) Hoboken
3. Vespachick (GA PIT) Portland, OR
4. haldon (GA PIT) Miami, FL + 3 friends (GA PIT) St. Petersburg, FL and Savannah, GA
5. DaFunkyPrecedent (GA PIT) + 5 friends.  San Francisco, Ca.
6. Reverand ToneZone (GA Pit) Los Angeles, CA +1
7. Walterfredo and better half (GA Pit) (San Francisco, CA) + 4
8. joey rogo (row A sec 127) + 3 friends from all over ny
9. salacious D (230) Illinois +hubs
10. ctdeadhead (GA PIT) Hartford, CT +wife
11. ALady (GA Pit) Chicago, IL
12 kydiddle (section 6) Hershey, PA, + 1 (maybe)
13.DirtyJerzee (Section 94) North Bergan, NJ +2
14. Hood16 ( GA Pit)- long island, flying solo
15. October (GA) + 2 friends (also GA)
16. jmk (Section 12) New Jersey + 1
17.  Sassbox (Floor, Sec 6)
18. EasyMorninRebel (Sec 90, Row F) Ottawa, Ontario + wife
19. the_Wizzard (GA) & husband as well as 2 more friends from Portland + 1 from SF (needs GA still  Roll Eyes) + 1 from CT and + 2 from Brooklyn.                                                                                
20. Blenderbaby(section 208 up in the rafters).    
21. bluesky
22. Crispy (PIT) +1 - Oklahoma
23. easy way (Sec. 79) +1 coming from ATLANTA....
24. BringdaRuckus (Sec. 123) +5  
25. BigEvil + wife (if she's not pregnant) Bloomfiled, CT
26. NoVa_NoLa + 1 (GA PIT) - Arlington, VA
27. idioteque +1 (GA PIT) - Boston, MA
28. ChiefOkonko (LA) and JacketGirl (Chicago)
29. ms. yvon +1 (los angles & nyc!)  PIT!  WOO!
30. j_rud +1 (sec 10, Philly)
31. siserilla + 1 (sec 41) Gainesville, FL
32. alexzbik + 3 (GA PIT) - Philly
33. bababooey + 1 (GA PIT)- Columbus, GA
34. buzzman +1-England!
35. Ghosts & Ghostess on TV + Discoball Tom + 1 (PA) GA

i think i remember Tom from Bonnaroo? Was he standing behind me (behind you two?)

No that was my friend Greg. Tom was at Radio City with me. You met him at the brewery.
Some girls mothers are bigger than others girls mothers...

ms. yvon

#97
Dec 04, 2008, 05:36 PM
Quotei will be there with a few. our seats are in section 9 on the floor.

hope to have my all white tux in time.


add yourself to the roll, lasvegas!

haven't put him on the roll, but the friend who came to the detroit show with me is making the trip to nyc for the show!  YES!
"i don't mean to brag, i don't mean to boast, but we like hot butter on our breakfast toast."

Rockburn Park

#98
Dec 04, 2008, 09:47 PM
1. bold99 (GA PIT) +boston group.                        
2. Pennylane (GA PIT) Hoboken
3. Vespachick (GA PIT) Portland, OR
4. haldon (GA PIT) Miami, FL + 3 friends (GA PIT) St. Petersburg, FL and Savannah, GA
5. DaFunkyPrecedent (GA PIT) + 5 friends.  San Francisco, Ca.
6. Reverand ToneZone (GA Pit) Los Angeles, CA +1
7. Walterfredo and better half (GA Pit) (San Francisco, CA) + 4
8. joey rogo (row A sec 127) + 3 friends from all over ny
9. salacious D (230) Illinois +hubs
10. ctdeadhead (GA PIT) Hartford, CT +wife
11. ALady (GA Pit) Chicago, IL
12 kydiddle (section 6) Hershey, PA, + 1 (maybe)
13.DirtyJerzee (Section 94) North Bergan, NJ +2
14. Hood16 ( GA Pit)- long island, flying solo
15. October (GA) + 2 friends (also GA)
16. jmk (Section 12) New Jersey + 1
17.  Sassbox (Floor, Sec 6)
18. EasyMorninRebel (Sec 90, Row F) Ottawa, Ontario + wife
19. the_Wizzard (GA) & husband as well as 2 more friends from Portland + 1 from SF (needs GA still  Roll Eyes) + 1 from CT and + 2 from Brooklyn.                                                                                
20. Blenderbaby(section 208 up in the rafters).    
21. bluesky
22. Crispy (PIT) +1 - Oklahoma
23. easy way (Sec. 79) +1 coming from ATLANTA....
24. BringdaRuckus (Sec. 123) +5  
25. BigEvil + wife (if she's not pregnant) Bloomfiled, CT
26. NoVa_NoLa + 1 (GA PIT) - Arlington, VA
27. idioteque +1 (GA PIT) - Boston, MA
28. ChiefOkonko (LA) and JacketGirl (Chicago)
29. ms. yvon +1 (los angles & nyc!)  PIT!  WOO!
30. j_rud +1 (sec 10, Philly)
31. siserilla + 1 (sec 41) Gainesville, FL
32. alexzbik + 3 (GA PIT) - Philly
33. bababooey + 1 (GA PIT)- Columbus, GA
34. buzzman +1-England!
35. Ghosts & Ghostess on TV + Discoball Tom + 1 (PA) GA
36. Rockburn Park +1 (GA PIT) - Maryland

Can't wait to bring in 2009!!!  

blenderbaby

#99
Dec 04, 2008, 10:14 PM
Quoteim new to this so go easy on me ha. i cant hide my excitement anymore! my girlfriend and i are coming nye all the way from st helens,merseyside in england and we both cant wait!!! now we have seen the jacket a few times before but this is gonna be mind blowing! so if any of you hear a couple of strange accents dont be afraid to have a chat,oh i'll be the one with a massive grin on my face lol
              Oh my god.............. "WOOLYBACKS"!!!!, WELCOME WELCOME... we must meet up, an old lonely scouser here, and sorely miss hearing people say real words like "lorry, shop, petrol....."      oh, and is "Wigan" still a dump????.  ;D
A lie is not always a bad thing, as it must lead to a truth!
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