Poor poor America

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

(face burns red with embarrassment)

thanks y'all.  that's really nice.  :)

[Wind_Fall]

Hello all from a newbie.  My name is Jordan and I'm from Athens, Georgia.

I have few comments to add and I hope I don't offend b/c that is not why I'm replying to this post.  This is a different point of veiw that probably rarely gets displayed in here and I hope that divesity is welcome.  ;)

I'll start of by saying, yes, I think that we are certainly in a mess in Iraq.  However I think that half the folks who are ripping Bush for his decision to go in were for for this naive/brave act of liberation in the beginning but find this as an opportune time to make him look like an animal. The truth is that you never hear about the majority of the Iraqi population that are pro-america.  The mainstream media will not allow this b/c they obviously have a political agenda.  You don't hear about the school that are being built and the ammount of people with electricity that were unwillingly living premitavly before the war.  The news never talks about the members of the UN security council that were involved in bribes by Iraq through the oil for food program to keep the US out of Iraq.  They were GIVEN oil from Iraq so that they could in turn sell it for profit.  Iraqi oil vaucher bribes have also been traced to Shirac and his family specificaly citing interest in funding his campaign. Here is a Fox news link that goes into more detail. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117723,00.html


Now to John Kerry.  He takes every opportunity to bash the president and says he will do all these things better but has yet to present a plan.  He claims more jobs, well, his wife's company Heinz, has 57 plants in foreign countries ans 22 in America.  He claims he is the "regular guy's"  president,  I have a hard time believing a guy worth more than 500 million will be opening doors for you or giving his place in line at the grocery store.  


On to Israel.  Israel did not ask to have war declared on them in 1929.  The land that the Palestinians say is their's was actualy acquired by Israel after the Palestinians were defeated in a was that THEY wagged, not Israel.  They believe that genocide is the answer and that is wrong, Republican or Democrat. Here's a very informative site that explains EVERYTHING. http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

To November 2004, I'm not necessarily suggesting that you vote for Bush but please take the chance to inform yourselves through independent research (not Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck).  Fox News, despite their reputation by the democrats as being a republican news outlet, is the best place for getting the whole story.  I understand that is is fashionable to hate Bush but please inform yourself.
This site http://www.factcheck.org/ is a wonderful nonpartisan, "consumer advocate" for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics


I certainly hope I haven't made any enemies with this post but it very unrealistic to think that I won't get flamed for it hehe.  I just thought that a different view would be welcome and appreciated.  NOTHING PERSONAL TO ANYONE.  This is my final political post I'm just hear to talk about MMJ man!  ;)  

[Wind_Fall]

One more thing. We put them on a leash and take picture and they behead us:
 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119615,00.html

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

(cracks knuckles in preparation)

Well my friend, all opinions are welcome here.  We are a diverse group of folks, with a common love for all things MMJ, and I'm sure we all agree that the music is the reason we come here to chime in on our love for MMJ.  This particular thread was started by our European friends from across the pond who have a different perspective than we do about world events.

Now that my obligatory preface statement has been made, I can say this:

Fox News, despite their reputation by the democrats as being a republican news outlet, is the best place for getting the whole story

No sir, it isn't a republican news outlet, but it surely isn't the best place for getting the "whole" story.  Frankly, it is the opposite.  As a conservative broadcast outlet (come on, like Bill O'Reilly ain't conservative, or Hannity, or any of the other talking heads on there), it regularily has a lopsided opinions on the war (a huge, HUGE mistake IMHO), lopsided opinions on just about every social concern out there.  I'm taking you to task on this as there are quite a flurry of news outlets out there that don't have this spin on the news.

After a week of watching news in Canada, I'm convinced ALL of our news outlets are biased in some way.  And no, I don't subscribe to the "liberal media" swill that I hear all of the time-News Corp., GE, et al are NOT "liberal" companies politically by any stretch of the imagination.

It is impossible in this country to choose a side without hearing the klaxon horn from the other side decrying your choice.  I call several republicans my friends, so I hear all sides to the issues.  I also have a vast amount of poli sci under my belt (grad level), so I think I know what I'm talking about.

Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinions, and we are all brothers and sisters here on the board.  Just like brothers and sisters, we will agree and disagree on issues like these (especially like these).  RESPECT for everyone here is paramount, so let's keep it civil.

Peace.

[Wind_Fall]

Thanks you for the tasteful reply John!  

Fox is often classified as a republican news outlet because of Mr OReiley's show.  What many un informed people don't realize is that Bill Oreily is not a friend of the Republicans. Although many of his opinions are perceived as being conservative, most of them are not.  More often that not OReiley does not show full support for the President.

You mentioned the Hannity and Colmes program above.  This is a wonderful example of who Fox is a non partisan news source.  If it were a conservative media front I don't think they would bother including Alan Colmes.    

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

More often that not OReiley does not show full support for the President

So what you are saying is that if you don't support the president fully, you aren't part of your own idealogy anymore?  That doesn't ring right in my ears (pardon the pun).  As a proud left winger, I can say with all honesty that I don't fully support any left leaning presidents, or any presidents for that matter.  As a leader, the president (past and present) have to answer to us, the voting, taxpaying public.  It is paramount to being an American to examine issues and form our own opinions on them.  This new school of thought that makes anyone who disagrees with Bush a terrorist is dangerous, un-American, and quite frankly, embarrassing.

Many hardcore conservatives are not happy with Bush, so if they don't fully support him there not hardcore conservatives anymore?  

We can agree to disagree on this, but the divisive nature of any Fox News programs or anchors (the yelling, the name calling, baiting, etc) lead me to turn it off.  As Americans, we all need to come together to fix this sinking ship before it's too late.  Iraq issues aside, we have domestic issues that seem to have taken a back burner to our galavanting president who could care less about the environment, social security, full employment, health insurance, education (the No Child Left Behind act is more appropriately named the No Child Educated At All Act)...the list goes on and on.  Tax breaks for the wealthy aren't the panacea that our leaders would have us believe will fix everything.  Our trade deficit is at an all time high.  The budget deficit is at an all time high.  These are critical issues that are so imperative, I can't believe I'm typing about them instead of hitting the streets as an activist.

"Nonpartisan" is not the same as "idealogically neutral".  Surely you don't believe that all of the Democrats are liberals or all Republicans are conservatives...the news, all news, needs to re-examine its true role in our society-to report the facts without any kind of spin, liberal or conservative.  Our European and Canadian friends have it right-the news is a long list of the events of the day, not unqualified talking heads shouting "Wrong!" when someone disagrees with their position.  "News" and "entertainment" are not synonomous terms.  

And now, back to your regularily scheduled program... :)

[Wind_Fall]

So what you are saying is that if you don't support the president fully, you aren't part of your own idealogy anymore?  

No. Actually I nothing of the sort.  I was making the point that many pin OReily as a darling of the republican party when in fact he is not.

As far as tax cuts for the rich.  Yes we do need a tax cut because 96.3% of US income taxes are paid by the top 50% of wage earners.  I am tired of working so hard to support lazy welfare theives.  Get off of your rear end and go work at McDonalds.  They will hire ANYONE.  Here are the IRS income stats. http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/pub/irs-soi/01in01ts.xls 

I see this thread going in the wrong direction.  Words are being twisted and that makes for a very deconstructive and ungentlemenly like conversation.  It was great talking with you John.  See you at the show.  

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Agreed.  See ya at the shows!

Again, I'd like to say that we're all brothers and sisters here on the board, so no hard feelings.  It is my utmost duty to the board to keep my own politico maddness in check, so I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Say, have you gotten access to the FTP server yet? Drop me an email...rock on.

[Oz]

Hey,

I just noticed: on the front page of this site, on the down right corner, there's a link to a site called Music for America. I don't know if you noticed it yet. It's a political site, supported by a lot of musicians and bands, trying to create awareness about the way the US are fucking up. Check it out, if you haven't, yet.

[dwight]

I think we should embrace peace.
Disolve our army, navy, and marines.
Plant flowers where military barricks and out posts once stood.
The world doesn't need us to police it.
Everyone will get along just fine without our intrusion.
I'll sleep better when our evil country doesn't have ANY weapons.
Until that day, our only answer is meditation, prayer, and perhaps .... drugs..... to tune out the darkness that has fallen over this country.
Please wake me when Utopia arrives!

[Oz]

Nah, let's sleep. You can count on my vote.

[The_Link]

Can I chime in?
Personnaly, I am sick of everyone (not this site) using the terms "liberal" and "conservative."  Has anyone used the term "normal?"  Why can't we all have "normal" views.  Now, i don't want to get into a discussion about what is "normal", but it is basically a common sense approach to the whole big picture.  I do not beleive that most of Americans are informed enough to have a reasonable opinion on what is going on in this country or the whole world for that matter. George Bush is a perfect example of this.  And, to make things worse, he has a cabinet full of old school thugs.  Like it or not, the world is not just the US.  We are slowly but surely isolating ourselves and we will be enialated eventually if we are not careful.  The least we can do is choose the lesser of two evils.  I think John Kerry is just as much of a shitbag as the next, but he is less of a risk to the country.  I mean, the economy will fix itself.  I truly believe that it doesn't matter which party or asshole is in the White House.  We need to keep peace in the world, not make war.  If I really believed that Saddam was responsible for most of the terrorist activity, then go ahead and remove him.  But, a full occupation of Iraq was not the answer.  It is becoming a very dangerous situation in the Middle East and we cannot affor to have trigger happy men running the country and speaking for all Americans.  Let's have some common sense people.  Go vote and educate yourselves.

[SMc55]

The pictures in a UK paper showing British soldiers apparently abusing Iraqi prisoners have been shown to be a hoax. The editor has been discredited and lost his job. Nobody is more pleased about this than the government because "co-incidentally" this editor was the most outspoken against the war.

What a mess.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

thanks for the insights, link.  i think that what must be going on is that someone is profiting nicely from the occupation of Iraq and the destabilization of the region...

Wasn't it just a few short years ago we saw Rabin and Arafat shaking hands in the Rose Garden?  

dr., the discredited photos are indeed a travesty.  it's not bad enough that crazy shit is going on over there for REAL, without phony things to cloud the issue further.  

people, I've said it once, I'll say it again...get yourselves registered to vote, and unseat the powers that be.   8)

[Apu Nhasapeemapetilan]

man i hate jesus
but boy i like pop tarts
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

[The_Link]

you like pop tarts?  that's fascinating.  i like pork chops.  i don't know jesus, so i cannot judge.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

you like pop tarts?  that's fascinating.  i like pork chops.  i don't know jesus, so i cannot judge.

i know jesus as i own a copy of Spacemen 3's the perfect prescription...if that ain't jesus music, my name is [glb]Ross Perot's Donkey Wrench[/glb].

[MMJ_fanatic]

I think we should embrace peace.
Disolve our army, navy, and marines.
Plant flowers where military barricks and out posts once stood.
The world doesn't need us to police it.
Everyone will get along just fine without our intrusion.
I'll sleep better when our evil country doesn't have ANY weapons.
Until that day, our only answer is meditation, prayer, and perhaps .... drugs..... to tune out the darkness that has fallen over this country.
Please wake me when Utopia arrives!

I have been avoiding this thread as I hate discussing politics on a site dedicated to great musicians and their band, but when I read this post I got chills.  The sentiment is great but the reality is off the rails.  Unfortunately there will always be people who hate and envy America for anything and everything we stand for--freedom, independence, the opportunity to be wildly successful and truly enjoy life (even though taxes are worse than ever here and I fear a donkey in the white house might make things worse).  I am not ready to open my arms to the aformentioned hateful extremists--letting them stroll in and cause the type of chaos seen almost nightly anywhere in the mid east.  Nope, keep my military strong and on the cutting edge of technology and hence preserve out way of life.

[MMJ_fanatic]

p.s.:  i like pork chops and pop tarts

[lfish]

Unfortunately there will always be people who hate and envy America for anything and everything we stand for--freedom, independence, the opportunity to be wildly successful and truly enjoy life (even though taxes are worse than ever here and I fear a donkey in the white house might make things worse).

Don't get me wrong, I like America, but I don't think America is the land of freedom.  In my eyes, it's the land where everything is possible and nothing is allowed. A land of contradictions.  The declaration of independence and the constitution as foreseen by Jefferson and Madisson intended to give freedom and democracy to the people as a reaction to the british domination and dictation, but if we look today to american society this aim is not fully achieved.  Let me give you some simple examples.  Today, you are not allowed to drink alcohol in public, you have to use the little brown baggie.

The Janet Jackson boob story makes us, europeans,laugh. One naked tit on television and whole puritanical america screams for murder.  Where's free expression? On the other hand, porno industry in america is booming.  

After 09/11 not one big news paper dared to write something negative about the government's policy or dared to question safety measures taken by the institutions to avoid this tragedy, while european newspapers started an objective investigation and noticed already that not all necessary measures were taken.  They also investigated bush former foreign policy and saw he was asking for troubles.

School and education teaches from the beginning that America was founded on values like freedom, hope, possibilities.  And after hearing this year after year, you start to think that America is the most free country in the world.  But in my opinion, there is still a discrepancy here.


I don't mean to shoot on America, but a wise lesson is, as mentioned before, inform yourself properly, learn about the world, the history of countries,and not only about america's history.