My Morning Jacket

How could she ever think she is a good performer?
What happened to the good ol' days when a musician was caught lip-synching, suicide would follow?

oh come on now.  "Solid Gold" and "Hee Haw" both had lip synching, and no one cried foul back then....

Ashlee Simpson was one of my first friends on MySpace, so I guess I'm obligated to object to this thread by saying something along the lines of...

w/e dood cus leik she is soooo talnted an omg her album is theeee shiitttt!!!!one i hurd it so many taims on trl and she is so hot i wan luk jus leik her but not relly haha kthxbai

Yea, she sucks.

oh come on now.  "Solid Gold" and "Hee Haw" both had lip synching, and no one cried foul back then....[/quote]
I'm looking for blood vengence!!!!!!

i'm going to go on record here, again, and say that i own ashlee simpson's second cd and it's totally my guilty pleasure. it's my "true blue" circa 2005.
i will also go on record and say that it's so, like, totally cliche to make fun of the way she allegedly speaks and of the lip-synch fiasco and of her music. let's give her a break, folks. she's not claiming to be pj harvey or blondie or cat power. she is what she is. and for the audience demographic that she plays for, she IS the shit. but having worked at a record store for some time, 9 year-old girls and 30 year-old women bought her first album. if someone can relate to "autobiography" or "boyfriend", who are we to judge? what makes any musical act more relevant than another? hell, hilary duff doesn't sing about my life, but my 12 year-old step-daughter may feel that hilary describes her life perfectly.
it's so easy to playa-hate on open targets like ashlee simpson and britney spears and the like and i think it's kind of cowardly. she's not claiming that her music is important or that it's a scathing commentary on our political present. she's just doing what she wants to do and putting it out there. if you don't like it, that's your prerogative. i just don't think it's very nice to poop all over someone who is actually showing that you don't have to take yourself so freakin' seriously. not every piece of recorded music has to be abbey road, harvest, or desire, ya know?
all's i know is that it takes balls to put yourself out there and try to succeed in a business that eats most people alive. it's even braver to fuck up on national television and attempt to bounce back.
maybe ashlee simpson just isn't for you, but that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Quoteall's i know is that it takes balls to put yourself out there and try to succeed in a business that eats most people alive. it's even braver to fuck up on national television and attempt to bounce back.

A few thoughts:

Put yourself out there? She was "famous" before she ever sang, b/c of her big sister. Fame is more important than talent. Look at Paris Hilton for God's sakes. She is famous for what?

 Ashlee Simpson didn't pay her dues, not 1. Her father whored her out based on her big sister's T & A. Her debut album sold a million plus before she ever played anywhere but a shopping mall. It's a corporate sell out from the word go.

12 yeard old girls buy what's on the radio, they buy the mass marketed crap.

She plays the Ryman here in Nashville, her first tour, her first album, and it's b/c she is so talented?

I don't consider Ashlee Simpson brave, b/c she's simply ignorant. Hell, that "She bang She bang" guy from American Idol got up there and made an idiot of himself night after night. Is that brave? They do it for the money. PERIOD. No bravery there, in my book. It would be brave if she admitted she had little talent and was riding her sister's success. Good grief.
(http://ideashak.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/ashleeeee.jpg)
(http://thinksmart.typepad.com/good_morning_thinkers/william_hung.jpg)

(http://www.inluminent.com/images/st/its_time_to_kick_ass.jpg)

Quote it's even braver to fuck up on national television and attempt to bounce back.
 

Yet she did the mature thing and blamed her band.

Ashlee's popularity is nothing more than a contrivance. The only reason she's famous is because of her sister. Her family and management used Jessica's TV show as a springboard to launch Ashlee's career. She has an average singing voice and her punky image is also a complete lie. Her lyrics are banal and shallow and by wearing a Ramones t-shirt doesn't make you radical and edgy.

True, her music isn't meant to appeal to girls older than 14, but there are a couple of teen artists that have at least more substance and personality than Ashlee.  

and another thing, that great dad of theirs (that holy, Christian man) has the nerve to say Jessica is not being marketed as a sex symbol?  Is this guy from our planet?
(http://torvicscans.galeon.com/jessica/jessica06.jpg)
(http://ffmedia.ign.com/filmforce/image/jessica_simpson3.jpg)
(http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/the_dukes_of_hazzard/jessica_simpson/dukespred4.jpg)
(http://www.mtv.com/news/photos/s/simpson_jessica_gq_050705/flip-c.jpg)

You do seem to know a lot about the Simpson family Carrot - you sure you're not a closet fan?  ;)

hey wellfleet, how're things? i completely see where you're coming from - points to you for admitting you have a AS album & you enjoy it. (i'm not being sarcastic here..) i'm an ingrained music snob, but i do know that if something does it for you, it doesn't matter what it is/how "cool" it is... you just like it.

and i'm fine with singers etc wanting to put there stuff out there, and get their 5 seconds of limelight, and good on anyone with the guts to do that. i certainly don't. but surely there is a difference between singers (i'm not going to say artists, different argument) putting themselves out there & singing their little hearts out, and "singers" who are putting themselves out there & MIMING. in public. regardless of who the singer is, be it ashlee or britney or bono or madonna or whoever, personally i lose all respect for someone when they mime. i don't care if they didn't write the lyrics or the music, but if you are a singer, then goddamn SING. that is why i go to gigs. to see and hear the person sing.  i don't know how other people feel about this, i just feel its a bit offensive, and disrespectful to just about everyone involved (including the singer - ashlee must have some talent... she should be given the opportunity to use it if she wants to)

she may not be a real punk, but at least she's not wearing little weanie clothes like some people we could mention... ;)

QuoteYou do seem to know a lot about the Simpson family Carrot - you sure you're not a closet fan?  ;)

I work with teenagers, I have to keep up with pop culture.

ali... thanks! i'm well, just finished a big move, my first as a real grown-up! i, too, am/was a music snob. before i started working in the music biz (buyer for HMV), i thought most music was shite. i ridiculed everything i didn't like. and if someone i knew listened to something i found odious, like say, linkin park, i made fun of them.
then i realized a few things:
1. you just never know what will make you happy. some people will only listen to electronica and they trip out on that kind of stuff. some people really FEEL nickleback lyrics. some people think ryan adams is a tool. some people worship neil young (me!!!!).
2. just coz it makes you happy, don't mean it will make someone else happy.
3. there's something for everybody. whatever turns your crank, there's a musician out there for you. ever wished bowie would do his music in portuguese? check out the soundtrack to "the life aquatic with steve zissou". ever wish you could hear a rap version of the white album? check out the grey album by danger mouse.

although ashlee simpson may have been introduced to the world via her big sis, she is the youngest dancer ever to be admitted to the american school of ballet. she has outsold her sister by millions. maybe she doesn't have the most amazing voice, but there are many singers out there who don't have the greatest vocals but get by because their voice has charm and personality. it can be argued that neil young doesn't have a typically on-key voice, but i love it. to me, his voice feels like the truth. but i now know that only i can hear what i can hear. so what if some 14 or 40 year-old likes ashlee simpson's voice and/or personality? i like it, and i don't think that makes me a retard.
look, i'm not saying ashlee is anything more than a pre-fab image who may or may not have a pleasant singing voice. i'm not saying she is anything more than just plain old girly fun. it's ok to relax and dance in your bedroom to holiday or papa don't preach or ashlee freakin' simpson.
it just upsets me when people are so worried about their musical-savant cred.
i don't care who you are, you have a deep, dark secret in your music collection that 99% of people would laugh it but that you treasure. some of you have george michael albums, gino vanelli, rush, etc... they're not everyone's cup of tea but to some people, they're the shit. so there!

and quite frankly, even if you're a bad singer, especially if you don't have the vocal chops of other singers, and you still pursue what you love to do, that's brave in my book.

you're comparing Ashlee Simpson with Neil Young? There's a difference in liking someone's voice (or not) and someone who lip synchs and doesn't have the integrity to admit it until there's no other choice. I think saying you have guilty pleasures in your CD collection is like saying you enjoy some crappy music. I do too, but I admit it, I don't try to justify it.

I like some crappy music. Ashlee Simpson's crappy music just doesn't appeal to me.


(BTW, Neil Peart of RUSH has more talent in his left knee than the entire Simpson family).

(http://www.drumnetwork.co.uk/images_news/neilpeart090104/neilpeart_1.jpg)

Quotei don't care who you are, you have a deep, dark secret in your music collection that 99% of people would laugh it but that you treasure. some of you have george michael albums, gino vanelli, rush, etc... they're not everyone's cup of tea but to some people, they're the shit. so there!

However, one should be able to recognize talent and quality regardless of whether you like their sound or not. I despise Depeche Mode, The Cure, Franz Ferdinand, New Order, Genesis, The Killers, The Smiths, Morrissey, The Pet Shop Boys, Wham, Nickelback, Gwen Stefani and No Doubt, most of Madonna's music and Avril Lavigne - (to name a few) -  but at least there's substance in every artist I've mentioned... well maybe not Nickelback.

Quoteand quite frankly, even if you're a bad singer, especially if you don't have the vocal chops of other singers, and you still pursue what you love to do, that's brave in my book.

No, it's brave if you believe in it enough to sacrifice your life for your craft; to live week to week for the music, in hopes to make it; to believe in what you're doing and not compromising. To pay your dues.

Knowing the whole time that your family is wealthy, never having to worry where your next meal is coming from if you don't get a gig, getting TV deals b/c your sister is famous, BEFORE your album comes out, that shit ain't brave. You're not risking much of anything. All she is risking is some silly pride.  Ashlee Simpson would last 2 days in a van on the road with nothing but her guitar and her "band" (does she play?) and her pursuit of her "dreams". She'd call her daddy to come pick her up.

Hog vomit!

Quote

No, it's brave if you believe in it enough to sacrifice your life for your craft; to live week to week for the music, in hopes to make it; to believe in what you're doing and not compromising. To pay your dues.

Knowing the whole time that your family is wealthy, never having to worry where your next meal is coming from if you don't get a gig, getting TV deals b/c your sister is famous, BEFORE your album comes out, that shit ain't brave. You're not risking much of anything. All she is risking is some silly pride.  Ashlee Simpson would last 2 days in a van on the road with nothing but her guitar and her "band" (does she play?) and her pursuit of her "dreams". She'd call her daddy to come pick her up.

Hog vomit!

true.  but there is a place for her in the world of music along with hundreds of others like her who are part of the corporate music machine.  as long as there is a market this stuff will continue to be out there.  and as long as people are having kids and we have a pop culture driven society there will be a market.

in a big way i kinda feel bad for her.  going through life having everything handed to you doesnt exactly make the most well rounded people.  so she has a house, a new mercedes or two, the latest in fashion, and doesnt really have to work a "real job", but is she happy?  is she always in the back of her head thinking "im only here because of my sister".  ive done some embarrasing ass shit in my life.  she did hers on tv.  obviously here we are what, two years later, and people are still talking about her.


lip synching is no big deal.  all the early heroes of rock n roll did it on stage at radio shows.  elvis did it.  little richard did it.  buddy holley did it.  all those early rock guys would go to the local dj's weekend shows down at the shore or out at the park and lip synch to their latest 45.

these people, the record buying public.  most of them wouldnt know quality music if it skull fucked them.  people for the most part are easy to please.  some verse chorus verse, a catchy beat, a good producer, and a cute boy or girl who sings the song on the mtv.  the average music buyer doesnt understand the cut n paste world of pro-tools where a verse of a song is put together word by word or phrase by phrase rather than the person singing an actual track.  they also dont realize one of the reasons so much of this music sounds the same at any given time is because there are a limited number of song writers, song writing teams and/or producers who are doing ALL the music that becomes the "pop hits" for the teeny boppers and boy bands.  this aint the "good old days" where a group stood around a single mic and played live while it was etched into a record.

talented or not.  cute or not.  these people have a place.  a lot of musicians who deserve to be paid for their craft never will be.  a lot of people who in your opinion dont  will be.  these teeny boppers the average music snob hates usually end up broke nobodys after their year or two of being somebody.  there are a few exceptions, like the simpson girls who had a business savvy dad, but for the most part they end up right back working in restaurants or on construction sites or doing whatever they were doing before.

there will always be people out there playing music because they simply HAVE to play music.  those people who reach YOU, those people who speak to YOU through their craft will probbably continue to be small time "nobodys" on the grand scale of the pop culture world.  you gotta look at it this way though, even if its a bit selfish, these people will continue to play small clubs or bars or maybe even your backyard party.  these people will continue to be accessible to hang out with, maybe kick back a few beers with and just chill.  these people will continue to be regular people eeking by but creating wonderful pieces of music you can sit and enjoy and feel special about if for no other reason than the fact that you are one of the few people who gets to participate in this persons beautiful creation.

in conclusion.  i'd love to be the meat in a simpson sandwich.  its possible i said all those nice things in hopes they will become jacket fans, read this board, and then make a man out of me.

cheers.

tracy, no, i am not comparing ashlee simpson to neil young on a real level. i can relate to neil's lyricism, politics, and voice. i'm just saying that bagging on such a soft target is soooooo lame and facile. i mean, what an easy target to shoot at. it takes zero effort to say that the simpsons are a manufactured lot of clean-scrubbed, pretty folks with too much money and not enough brain cells. and maybe that's all true, and maybe it isn't. i don't know any of them personally, so how can i make that judgment?
but it doesn't surprise me that you would go out and bash her and her music and then make me feel bad about defending people's likes and dislikes. not everyone has your tastes. personally, rush makes me want to stick rusty forks in my eyes but i have lots of friends who worship at the altar of rush. which one of us is wrong? neither. it's way too easy to attack the integrity of a pop artist. you don't know what ashlee simpson will turn into.
i, for example, don't usually associate with people who don't love the beatles. my husband routinely says he wouldn't have married me if i didn't love the beatles. but "please, please me", despite being maybe the most perfect pop song EVER written, is not especially profound. the beatles lip-synched all the time on TV. does this take away from the beatles' integrity or what they became later.
and no, i am not comparing her to lennon-mccartney, in case you ask.
i don't have to justify liking crappy music. certainly not to you. you just make us feel like we have to apologize for liking something that's beneath this board and that's not cool.
it's more challenging to discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of Z or ISM instead of Cheneying the easy target.

Quote

No, it's brave if you believe in it enough to sacrifice your life for your craft; to live week to week for the music, in hopes to make it; to believe in what you're doing and not compromising. To pay your dues.

Knowing the whole time that your family is wealthy, never having to worry where your next meal is coming from if you don't get a gig, getting TV deals b/c your sister is famous, BEFORE your album comes out, that shit ain't brave. You're not risking much of anything. All she is risking is some silly pride.  Ashlee Simpson would last 2 days in a van on the road with nothing but her guitar and her "band" (does she play?) and her pursuit of her "dreams". She'd call her daddy to come pick her up.

Hog vomit!

and to further my objection, i guess i deeply resent the music biz and fans' obsession with cred. being a starving artist is not more a merit badge than hitting it big right away. why does touring in a smelly van for years and selling 3 records make you more valuable than someone who rocketed to fame? it's snobbery and it's really bullshit. i know a lot of jacket fans who secretly hope the band remains in the shadows so they can always be the coolest kids at the party when they bust out their copy of at dawn and blow everyone away. being obscure is not being special. some artists become immensly popular because they appeal to many, ,many people on a personal level and it's ridiculous to belittle that.
i just don't see how you can place a value on personal taste. i like sushi and my brother doesn't. neither one of us is in the wrong here.
except for you, because you're just a bitter old man sick of hanging out with krazzzyyyy kids you secretly want to strangle.  ;D

nice to have you back, wellfleet!  i agree with what youre saying, if it speaks to you, thats all that matters.  i think bitter old people or clever kids want to try to criticise the cred of peoples opinions, but thats because they have nothing better to do.  you know i can disagree with someone and think their musical taste is comical or downright ridiculous, but kudos to them.  you like what you like, and if youre not buying it just for the hell of it, youre being true to yourself.  a lot of people really feel ashlee simpson speaks to them, that dave matthews is the greatest musician ever.  those statements might make me chuckle, but if someone is honest to themselves and really believes that, who is anyone to take that away?  

of course, these people who are music cops are pure entertainment.  hate a band, talk about why you think that, but fof fuck's sake, why attack someone for what they think is right and good?  

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/35858000/jpg/_35858926_xxx_simpsons_matt300.jpg)

Everyone's fav Simpson family!

It's about integrity to me and Ashlee Simpson represents this mindless, heartless, corporate money making machine that is compromising the integrity of just about everything.

It's about integrity.

And when the Beatles lip synched, everyone knew it and they didn't pawn it off as really singing. It was a show and they and you and I knew it. The Ashlee Simpson's of the world want to "trick" you into believeing something that isn't real.

It's about integrity and with her and the likes, I don't see much, and that makes me sad for our world, angry with corporations, and longing for the old days when everything wasn't for sale.

wellfleet, you ever think you'd see My Morning Jacket on SNL, lip synching their songs, get caught lip synching, then Jim comes out and blames the band for playing the wrong song? Do you actually not see the difference? Do you have any idea why that would never happen?

And you should take responsibility for your own feelings; saying that  "I make you feel bad" and "Imake you feel like you need to apologoze" is giving me way, way too much power here, don't you think? I can make you feel certain ways just from posting on a message board? Wow, something I am saying must really hit home.

It's all fun and games folks.  ;)

Quote.
i will also go on record and say that it's so, like, totally cliche to make fun of the way she allegedly speaks and of the lip-synch fiasco and of her music. let's give her a break, folks. .

Her music is for pedophiles...................

youre shfiting the focus of everything here.  youre concentrating on the lip syching incident instead of the fact you attack people for choosing to like ashlee's music. youre very good at deviating from whats really being talked about, though.  in your working with teenagers and helping them, would you criticise and degrade them for liking her music?  

are u talkin to me?

Quotenice to have you back, wellfleet!  i agree with what youre saying, if it speaks to you, thats all that matters.  i think bitter old people or clever kids want to try to criticise the cred of peoples opinions, but thats because they have nothing better to do.  you know i can disagree with someone and think their musical taste is comical or downright ridiculous, but kudos to them.  you like what you like, and if youre not buying it just for the hell of it, youre being true to yourself.  a lot of people really feel ashlee simpson speaks to them, that dave matthews is the greatest musician ever.  those statements might make me chuckle, but if someone is honest to themselves and really believes that, who is anyone to take that away?  

of course, these people who are music cops are pure entertainment.  hate a band, talk about why you think that, but fof fuck's sake, why attack someone for what they think is right and good?  

gee rats, should I open the what about those people who love George Bush, Bill O'Reilley, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Dick Cheney can of worms and how you really hate people who defend those folks? Mr "Open Minded". :o

 It's about integrity

I never had you pegged as someone so open to the corporate wholesale of our nation. Never had you pegged as someone who was so quick to defend the corporate man, the money making machine. Never had you pegged as letting people off the hook who don't agree with you.

the new ratsprayer; open and forgiving, willing to embrace your point of view if he doesn't agree with it; throwing a life line to other's opinions; willing to see your side of things; comfortable with the whoring out of America and the slow drone of the corporate machines.

I'll have to get you those Tracy masks ASAP!

sorry, it was mainly directed at my good friend ycarrotjarretferretetcetc, but if you have the same viewpoints about someone being less of a person for the musical choices they make, youve peaked my curiosity...

Quoteyoure shfiting the focus of everything here.  youre concentrating on the lip syching incident instead of the fact you attack people for choosing to like ashlee's music. youre very good at deviating from whats really being talked about, though.  in your working with teenagers and helping them, would you criticise and degrade them for liking her music?  

I'm not at work here. And I thought you guys could see this for what it is, fun and games. It amazes me how sensitive people are here.

Good grief.

Quote

I'm not at work here. And I thought you guys could see this for what it is, fun and games. It amazes me how sensitive people are here.

Good grief.

you always say that, yet numerous people on this board, in fact nearly everyone, cant ever seem to discern that from your posts.  i guess we're not on your level or something.  give me the answer to this.  i love a challenge, and this fun and games you talk about seem like something id love to conquer!  explain away!   ;)

no i just think she is shameless. i respect other musicians, and she is not a  musician nor anything in my life, jus' a small opinion. anyhoo, talking bout' people who like her music, i really don't care what anbody has to say about music except for people who play.

im just confused about the scope of where ashlee simpson is evil. is it mainly the lip synching?  lets take the strokes for example, they all come from well to do backgrounds and didnt have to struggle for any record deal or mega heaps of press before they albums hit shelves.  why not cry foul over them?  is it because they present themselves to a different demographic?  yes most indie, classic rock, etc etc minded adults arent going to pay any kids music attention.  like i said, i cant stand jessica or ashlee for numerous reasons, but there are other bands and artsists out there with the same sort of situation surrounding them.  

I was jus' talking bout her singing or lip moving, thats all she does, oh yeah, and makes horrible horrible videos and she dances bad .......... i don't have problem with the strokes etc etc, i just miss the good ol' days of when lip-synching musicians committed suicide dammit.

QuoteI was jus' talking bout her singing or lip moving, thats all she does, oh yeah, and makes horrible horrible videos and she dances bad .......... i don't have problem with the strokes etc etc, i just miss the good ol' days of when lip-synching musicians committed suicide dammit.

at least a near death experience...

mmmm hmmm
and how.
anyhoo when she came to Canada, eh, she went to mcdonalds, and made a huge fuss that no one cared about her, so she got up on the counter and started dancing, then she flipped out, and when a some kid asked her for an autograph she told the kid to kiss her feet. how punk rock is that???? she is punk to the core, everytime she wears her pink punk t-shirt , i think Joey Ramone has the shits in his grave.

i just saw that video the other day.  priceless.  see this spoiled brat does have some entertainment value, lets not forget that.

Quoteim just confused about the scope of where ashlee simpson is evil. is it mainly the lip synching?  lets take the strokes for example, they all come from well to do backgrounds and didnt have to struggle for any record deal or mega heaps of press before they albums hit shelves.  why not cry foul over them?  is it because they present themselves to a different demographic?  yes most indie, classic rock, etc etc minded adults arent going to pay any kids music attention.  like i said, i cant stand jessica or ashlee for numerous reasons, but there are other bands and artsists out there with the same sort of situation surrounding them.  

I was just commenting on the thread title, Ashlee Simpson Sucks.

Welfleet published her Ashlee Simpson manifesto and equated her with every band who ever made it and how brave she is, and how her and Neil Young are similiar, so I thought I'd reply. I don't think I care about this as much as welfleet and that's where some of the disconnect happens. I get the feeling she thinks I am passionate about this and I'm just having fun with it.

I'd never start a thread about another band sucking. I've commented about other bands I don't like (rarely), but when you start comparing Ashlee Simpson to those who have come before her, then I have to step up. It's a matter of national security and all that rocks.
(http://www.standard-deviance.com/images/albums/userpics/10001/normal_ashlee_snl.jpg)

Fuck yeah, ycartrob. that shits so sacrilegious. the best thing to do is compare her to milli vanilli, they should do a show together.

all right then that makes a bit more sense.  i would definitely agree shes not a torchbearer for bravery.  if she likes what shes doing, all the better.  if someone digs her music, it may be hard to understand, but thats not my place.  

Fuck The Level!!!!!!!!!
I'm bored.

I'm kicking myself for not seeing this thread in time...but I can't add anything new really.  It's all already been said.  

I just love the fact that she wears rolling stones t-shirts but probably can't name a single album that they've done ('Oh, um, aren't they the band that does start me up?') I doubt she could even come close to understanding the significance of an album they've done...say  "Exile on Main Street".

let's get one thing straight. tracy. i'm not passionate about ashlee simpson. i don't have posters on the wall. i AM passionate about defending someone who is just doing what she wants to do.
and i will say what a lot of people here aren't saying, and that is that's i get upset when you shit all over people's opinions and thoughts and when they call you on it, you avoid responsibility by saying that it's not you making them feel bad, that it's all on them. that's like telling blacks or hispanics that it's THEIR fault that they get upset when someone calls them a n***** or a s***. it's so lame.
i have 35 neil young albums. he's my hero. but i know plenty of folks who don't think he's all that. i wish they would love him as much as i do, but i am not about to puke my opinion all over them.
maybe she's a bad singer. maybe she's part of the cultural whoring of america. but SHE loves it. so who are you to say she's not legitimate? i am terrible, and i mean terrible at volleyball. it's the only sport i can say with certainty that i suck at. but i love it. i am so awesomely bad at it but i enjoy it so damn much. do i care that gabrielle reese is out there looking at me like i'm an idiot? nope.
she is beloved by million of people. and i think it's highly presumptuous to say that all those people are idiots. they just like it because they like it.
i don't think jim would blame the band should there be a lip-synch incident. i think the jacket have a lot of integrity. but if they were a bunch of spoiled-rotten rich kids making this amazing music between bong hits, i would still like their music.
can you never accept that you are not the cool-meter? how would you feel if someone said the scorpions were a shitty, big-haired, talentless bunch of hacks? you like 'em. other people think they're a joke.
it's ok to not be mean to people who don't agree with you.

I'm just being mean to Ashlee Simpson............if people get offended, they should be thick-skinned, instead they just wear diapers and cry, buh buh but i like her and her lip-synching :'(

i wish i could write a song, even a crappy one.
i wish i could come up with a melody.
i wish i could play an instrument.
i know i have a good voice, but nobody's throwing me a record deal.
i wish my dad was super-rich so i could hire the best producers and make an album.
i wish i could be invited to SNL and screw up and do something immature and then come back and sing for real and sing ok.

i would bet that none of the hardcore ashlee simpson haters have ever listened to both her albums in full, watched both seasons of her show and/or seen her "perform" in concert. i think it's more than obvious that you guys hate on ashlee simpson THE CONCEPT. and i can't say i blame you. i wish my kids would come out of the womb worshipping lennon and dylan and hendrix. but until that happens, "pass the dutchie" and "the hamster dance" will appeal to the hearts of the young. when i was a baby, the only thing that would lull me to sleep was Pink Floyd. when i was 5, i was obsessed with Graceland and Samantha Fox in equal amounts.
my husband's 12 year-old daughter is into avril lavigne. it makes me cringe but who am i to tell her she should listen to joan jett or blondie or the clash because they're more legitimate?
i can see why people hate rich people, successful people, wal-mart and globalization. i just think it's immature and based in some innate jealousy that whatever the simpson family is raking in, we're not.
i wish all bands were as innovative as the jacket, political as neil, or just perfect like the beatles. in the meantime, i can allow for people to like all kinds of music.

can't believe i have to wear the "defender of ashlee simpson" hat. but it's so ignorant to hate something you know nothing about.

"i" hate her music "i" dont care what you think and "i" dont really care about any of this bullshit raking .

wellfleet, as usual, you bring a whole bunch of unresolved garbage into these discussions; garbage and anger that have absolutely nothing to do with me (you get this upset over real life issues or just Ashlee Simpson?)

I am not responsible for your feelings. Period. Take back your power and figure out how to be responsible for your own feelings, I don't want that power (But thanks anyway).

Good luck.

come on wellfleet, you're actually comparing me saying Ashlee Simpson sux to someone using the N word?

Good grief.  :-/

Lighten up.

you know what i don't like, tracy? what i don't like, is that your defense of your opinion turns into personal attacks on others, in this case, me.
i didn't go out and ridicule you, your musical tastes, your philosophies, etc, and yet you feel you have to humiliate me publicly because you feel justified in your peart-over-simpson stance?
that sucks and i'm sad.

 

Quoteyou're just a bitter old man sick of hanging out with krazzzyyyy kids you secretly want to strangle.

wellfleet, is this not you ridiculing me? That there is the pot calling the kettle black.

Again, for you to get this upset over something as stupid and trivial as an Ashlee Simpson Sux thread tells me that you got a big chip on your shoulder that has nothing to do with me. This is some lame, stupid stuff to get so worked up about, wouldn't you agree?

Holey moley!

Folks, I swear, I am just having fun here.  
  
I apologize if my sarcasm is interpreted as belittling.  
  
I am under the impression that we are all fans of the music here and I say the same things to people here (in arguments) that I would say to my closest friends. Intellectual jousting with insults (see The Dozens in hip hop culture) is how we see it. No harm.  
  
Perhaps I am taking too many liberties with my quick wit and my craftmanship of the English language.  
  
If I disagree with your point of view or opinion, I will disagree. I'll try not to get personal or nasty, however, if you leave yourself wide open to some good hearted ribbing, please accept it for what it is.  
  
Please, dish it back, but don't take it personally. Just having fun with my sarcastic wit; if you don't find it funny, then don't respond.  
  
But if you say "so and so is an asshole" or "so and so can't take criticism", or how brave and talented Ashlee Simpson is, then I have to respond....because it's  F U N .
  
Be careful out there...

QuotePerhaps I am taking too many liberties with my quick wit and my craftmanship of the English language.

Yes.  Please do cease from destroying everyone with your gigantic wit.  Your craft of the English language supercedes everyone else, so it's almost like you're a giant fighting the ants.  Big people shouldn't pick on little people.  Only the anti-christ does that.

...oh wait... ;)

QuoteFolks, I swear, I am just having fun here.  
 
I apologize if my sarcasm is interpreted as belittling.  
 

You've surely been around here long enough to know that your sarcasm is interpeted as belittling. You keep feeling the need to explain yourself. How about just not saying things you know (must know by now) will cause offence here?

It's such a cop out to keep saying it's other people's responsibility to remain unoffended. It's as much your responsiblity not to say things you know will hurt.

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you were genuinely witty  :-/

Now I know how these guys felt
(http://home1.gte.net/grnjeans/russell%20johnson.jpg)
(http://thedailyinspiration.com/authors/images/plato.jpg)
(http://englishhistory.net/keats/images/keats-min.jpg)
(http://www.debwebonline.com/Mercy_in_Jesus/jesus102.jpg)
(http://www.barbariromanord.com/photogallery/big/NFL_story_21_big.jpg)
(http://www.muzikquest.de/images/lennon.jpg)
(http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sistine/2-God.jpg)

**PERSONAL ATTACK COMING**

ycartrob, let's face it: you enjoy being an ass. you think you're smarter than everyone else. you try and elevate yourself by putting others down.

wellfleet's point was simply that to her, ashlee simpson *doesn't* suck. you can dislike someone's music without saying it sucks. that's just playa-hatin' and it's a pretty low form of argument.

whoever created this thread must have completely wanted this anyway. some people are just shit disturbers. whatever. i like what i like, don't like what i don't like, and God bless ya for whatever you dig. personally, i find P.E. amazing and Common common. i think rush is just a canadian version of styx, and journey was pretty great. at the end of the day, these are just my views. i don't really give a crap if you agree or disagree....but when you start pissing on people from your presumed great height, you're really just showing your own smallness. grow up.

Ashlee Simpson sucks

no further questions, your honor....

HEY! *my* bitter old man comment had a smiley face at the end, which you conspicuously left out. my comment was an obvious joke, as demonstrated by the funny spelling of crazy.
and furthermore, if you will compare your supposed martyrdom to jesus and lennon, then surely i can not only compare ashlee's genius to neil young, but to dylan, joan baez, and the pixies.
re: the chip on my shoulder, which i am the first to admit is there, is mostly reserved for those who will not entertain that there are valid, legitimate opinions beyond their own. jeez, last night i was watching MSNBC and ann coulter and pat buchanan were on. i used to not even listen when those talking heads came on but last night i found myself in agreement that they, at least, had a point.
i used to say "blank blank sucks" and realized that it's so dismissive of others' opinions and completely unnecessary. now i say, "it's not my taste".
if you want good-hearted ribbing, that's awesome. lost of people do that here and remain civil.
but i'm always going to fire up the shoulder-fired chip if i think someone's talking out of their butt.
how can you say you don't like sushi if you've never had it? how can you say that ashlee simpson specifically sucks if you've never heard her "music"?
i'm over this.

I'm only here, in this thread, I mean, to have fun... but uh...

Quotemaybe she's a bad singer. maybe she's part of the cultural whoring of america. but SHE loves it. so who are you to say she's not legitimate?

What about Ashlee Simpson, in her acting career, or her music career, feels legitimate to you?

What I gather from the quote above is that, in your opinion, these days you only have to "enjoy" flopping around the stage to be an artist? Even if you never "earned your bones" to be on stage - even don't actually "sing" or "write", or even "dance" well - as long as you appear to enjoy it, it's legit?

What makes you think her apparent enthusiasm as a performer is anymore legit than her attributes as an artist? Are you sure she isn't just there because daddy found her an easy way to make money - and that's all?

Seriously, did she even write the lyrics to her latest album? You have the CD, I don't - so why don't you see what it says under song titles... Written by whom?

I'm also curious to know, does her CD give any credit to her band? Is it all tiny font? That'd be nice if, for once, Ashlee notes even having a band (besides the time she blamed them for skipping up her lip-sync tape).

The bottom line is - you said you enjoy the hell out of her latest album, and I don't look down on you for it... Different strokes for different folks...

I just think it's funny that you actually defended Ashlee Simpson's legitimacy as an artist.

Off of MySpace :
Band Members: Ashlee Simpson

That's why I added her as my friend. Anyone who can drum and play guitar and lip sync is cool as fuck in my book.

ewok, i'm glad you brought that up, because that makes for an intelligent discussion.
as a matter of fact, the songwriting credits are attributed to:
ashlee simpson (ASCAP), kara dioguardi (BMI)and john shanks (ASCAP).

and no, the band is not given credit because the band is only a *touring* band. they do not record in-studio. john shanks plays most of the instruments, most of the time. shanks is her producer and has worked with sheryl crow, kelly clarkson, melissa etheridge, chris isaak, bonnie raitt, joe cocker, etc.

my contention, simply, is that you don't have to be *good* to be legitimate and vice versa. i say this because there are many, many musical acts that are enormously popular without, in my taste, being any good. that doesn't take away from their legitimacy with their audience. the point is that legitimacy and art and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
art doesn't have to be good to be considered art. some people think the works of jackson pollock reflect our society's chaos and confusion and admire it, some people like the pretty colours but don't get the message, some people think he's some yahoo who splattered paint on large surfaces and called it art. it's all in your perspective and to me, there can be no wrong feelings.
to me, legitimacy is decided by the listener. there are, clearly, millions of people who totally get "it seems like yesterday that my world fell from the sky / it seems like yesterday i didn't know how hard i could cry" (beautifully broken, from the latest, re: SNL debacle). i think these lyrics are banal and if i want meaning in lyrics, i put on some dylan or public enemy. but somewhere out there, there's a girl who thinks these lyrics describe her life. who are we to piss on that?
essentially, nobody has to believe what you believe for your thoughts to be your reality. think about it for a sec. there are people out there who think the jacket's music is lame. they don't get the baby in a blender thing, they think the hair and the rocking out is boring, they don't get the wordless chorus on wordless chorus. somewhere, there are many people who think we suck for liking the jacket. does that mean we suck? does that take away MMJ being artists?
i can absolutely understand people resenting her and her ilk for being manufactured, for being fronts for a large marketing machine, for being arguably more pretty than talented. so what? who cares? when i have a coke, i don't think about the sugar and chemicals in it. i know it's not healthy. when i want healthy, i reach for the soy milk!
since when is it a crime to enjoy some awesomely cheesy music? keep in mind that i never said she was talented, just that i enjoyed her music for what it is, mindless chick music for a friday night, and there's a difference.

ewok... for a more close-to-home example, i just visited your site. i *loved* your artwork, there are some spectacular pieces, especially "big cuts" and your HST tribute. but if i didn't, if i hated it and so did everyone else you know, if they all thought you were ripping off a certain style,  that wouldn't make you less of a legitimate artist.

My cat's breath smells like cat food. ;)

I had a feeling you'd use artwork as an example, us artists tend to think alike...

Quotei *loved* your artwork, there are some spectacular pieces, especially "big cuts" and your HST tribute. but if i didn't, if i hated it and so did everyone else you know, if they all thought you were ripping off a certain style,  that wouldn't make you less of a legitimate artist.

It's one thing to rip off a style or just have no identity of your own (uh, like Ashlee?), its an entirely different thing to be diverse in style and emulate a style particular style in tribute.

For example, recently I've emulated the style of Ralph Steadman for the story I'm writing - Bonnaroo or Burst. Because I'm comfortable writing in the style of Gonzo Journalism, and because the subject matter, I found the style to be the obvious choice.

What's to say about Ashlee, when she's pretty much been molded into something by other people to target a particular paying audience... Is it possible to emulate Rock when you don't even know who the Rolling Stones are?

And don't worry, I understand your position completely - it's exactly like me enjoying particular piece of artwork that is, by all means, pretty fake... How about that pre-framed shit at Wal-Mart? How about the dogs playing poker? It's just a little guilty pleasure that you like this latest CD.

All I'm saying is that if someone else paints something for you to sign, and you stand to take the credit... are you really real?

Quote

You've surely been around here long enough to know that your sarcasm is interpeted as belittling. You keep feeling the need to explain yourself. How about just not saying things you know (must know by now) will cause offence here?

It's such a cop out to keep saying it's other people's responsibility to remain unoffended. It's as much your responsiblity not to say things you know will hurt.

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you were genuinely witty  :-/

sorry you don't get it. I'll try to bring it down to your level next time.

Dude, as respectfully as i can say this, you're a complete asshole. what makes you think you're so much better than anyone else? "i'll try to bring it down to your level." piss off.

what little opportunity you had to be taken seriously is no longer available. as stephen colbert would say, you're dead to me.

wellfleet, i'd advise ignoring this poseur from here on out. it's the one sure way you can impact this attention-starved washout.

QuoteDude, as respectfully as i can say this, you're a complete asshole. what makes you think you're so much better than anyone else? "i'll try to bring it down to your level." piss off.

what little opportunity you had to be taken seriously is no longer available. as stephen colbert would say, you're dead to me.

wellfleet, i'd advise ignoring this poseur from here on out. it's the one sure way you can impact this attention-starved washout.

Lighten up,  I'm like the 6th best poster in the nation.  ;D

ahh what a great way to spend the first half hour of work on a monday morning - reading these posts.... truly entertaining!

hey ycartrob (it's tracy isn't it?) - i do think you're posts are as intelligent / interesting / witty as just about everyone else's posts on this board (hey, mmj fans are obviously of a higher intelligence bracket just to start with  :)), and with the possible exception of the whole camel-toe thing, i really really enjoy reading & posting on this forum.   sarcasm is all well & great, but sometimes when you're reading what someone has written, i do find it hard to know if you're being sarky or not... it's just a bit hard to get that level of humour from the written word sometimes....  :)

Quoteahh what a great way to spend the first half hour of work on a monday morning - reading these posts.... truly entertaining!

hey ycartrob (it's tracy isn't it?) - i do think you're posts are as intelligent / interesting / witty as just about everyone else's posts on this board (hey, mmj fans are obviously of a higher intelligence bracket just to start with  :)), and with the possible exception of the whole camel-toe thing, i really really enjoy reading & posting on this forum.   sarcasm is all well & great, but sometimes when you're reading what someone has written, i do find it hard to know if you're being sarky or not... it's just a bit hard to get that level of humour from the written word sometimes....  :)

I appreciate it ali, I hear you. Ya know, if this had been an Ashlee Simpson Appreciation thread, I would have stepped back a little; if Ashlee Simpson was wellfleet's favorite performer, rather than an admitted guilty pleasure, I would not have given her such a hard time. But that's why I did (and do). I figured if it's music you admit as a guilty pleasure (and I take that as something you're embarrased to like?) then you really couldn't have too much objection to me making fun, right?

Wrong  :-/

I mean hell, I own 21 Rush cd's, drove to Indy by myself 2 years ago  to see them live, I have a minature RUSH 18- wheeler, so they are NOT my guilty pleasure (actually one of my all-time favorites), but I cannot see myself getting all in a huff when someone says how bad they suck.

It's just music.

It's all in fun, but I get the feeling with some people here, it really matters. Take ratsprayer, for instance; him and I have had words or "nasty" exchanges,(about real shit) but I see me and him on the stage rail at a Jacket show, one day in the future, high fiving after they play Run Thru or Anytime, etc (me teaching him how to helicopter his shirt above his head ;))...I get the feeling, though, some people here think I got some other agenda, or am being an elitist, etc..., and wouldn't want anything to do with me at a Jacket show; wouldn't be willing to acknowledge my joking and not be able to sacrifice some "pride" to get into a Jacket show with me. That's sad to me, but dawg gone it, this place is for an exchange of ideas, personalities, intelligence and wit. It shouldn't be some sounding board for self esteem (IMO).

Rock on
Rock out

Quote

sorry you don't get it. I'll try to bring it down to your level next time.

Fuck off

Quote

Fuck off

How about you take your own advice doc?

QuoteHow about just not saying things you know (must know by now) will cause offence here

telling me to Fuck Off is not offensive?

QuoteIt's as much your responsiblity not to say things you know will hurt.

I guess you know telling me to Fuck Off will not hurt me, so that's why you said it?

You seem confused....I suggest you take your own advice.  :-* You're the one getting crude, not me.

The level of irony, when someone explains to me that I should be more polite, then tells me to Fuck Off, is simply off the charts.  ;D

Quote

It's all in fun, but I get the feeling with some people here, it really matters. Take ratsprayer, for instance; him and I have had words or "nasty" exchanges,(about real shit) but I see me and him on the stage rail at a Jacket show, one day in the future, high fiving after they play Run Thru or Anytime, etc (me teaching him how to helicopter his shirt above his head ;))...I get the feeling, though, some people here think I got some other agenda, or am being an elitist, etc..., and wouldn't want anything to do with me at a Jacket show; wouldn't be willing to acknowledge my joking and not be able to sacrifice some "pride" to get into a Jacket show with me. That's sad to me, but dawg gone it, this place is for an exchange of ideas, personalities, intelligence and wit. It shouldn't be some sounding board for self esteem (IMO).

Rock on
Rock out

yes tracy, i can see that as well.  i was pretty sure i had tom and you figured out at bogarts pretty early in the show, but i couldnt make my way over there, so we missed our chance.  you might have a chance to teach me at the rites of spring festival, though.   ;D

Cat's breath?...Cat Food?  Anyone?

QuoteCat's breath?...Cat Food?  Anyone?

ive been trying for a few days to drop to your level to figure out how to reply to that.   ;D ;D ;D ;D

QuoteCat's breath?...Cat Food?  Anyone?

this thread never really got going...

 ;)

btw, i guess everyone knows where I stand on this subject ycarrot is a dick.  who compares himself to Jesus? get over yourself.  

Quote

this thread never really got going...

;)

btw, i guess everyone knows where I stand on this subject ycarrot is a dick.  who compares himself to Jesus? get over yourself.  

if one considers jesus to be "someone", i guess that comparison might mean something.

boom!   ::)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f296/ycartrob/IMGP0825.jpg)

how did you get those joints to stand like that?

Quote


ive been trying for a few days to drop to your level to figure out how to reply to that.   ;D ;D ;D ;D

It's a long drop to the bottom, my friend ;)

Quote

How about you take your own advice doc?


telling me to Fuck Off is not offensive?


I guess you know telling me to Fuck Off will not hurt me, so that's why you said it?

You seem confused....I suggest you take your own advice.  :-* You're the one getting crude, not me.

The level of irony, when someone explains to me that I should be more polite, then tells me to Fuck Off, is simply off the charts.  ;D

Yes it was offensive.
Yes it was meant to be.
But I'm not pretending it's anything else.

Tracy you have the wierdest gross hands I ever had the displeasure of laying eyes on.What is with those stumpy wrinkled up little fingers?  :P Please keep your body to yourself, hey why not try keeping everything  to yourself. period.

QuoteTracy you have the wierdest gross hands I ever had the displeasure of laying eyes on.What is with those stumpy wrinkled up little fingers?  :P Please keep your body to yourself, hey why not try keeping everything  to yourself. period.

My whole body quit growing when I was 5. I'll post more body parts on another thread, but that fork means I am done.

tootles  :)