My Morning Jacket

FINALLY things are really moving forward. What took so long? These are some historical times we're living in. I've really liked Nader for a long time but its hard to justify voting for him when you think of what could be.

Also wanted to add that if McCain wasn't up against a black candidate (not that I think any of that kinda shit makes anything difference, we're all just people) I don't think he would have been as radical in his approach to getting a female running mate. What if he was up against two white guys, do you think he would've still chosen a woman?

While it is possible, I kind of doubt he would have chosen a woman.  It also could have to do with trying to catch all those "Pro-Hillary but against Obama" votes.  I think thats more likely.

It's a strange move, and I don't think it will do anything but hurt him. Except for some radical feminists, there's no one who's gonna be drawn to this, and it's making the rest of his supporters a little uneasy. McCain needs to get his "inexperience ads" off the TV pronto.

QuoteMcCain needs to get his "inexperience ads" off the TV pronto.

Somewhere this morning I read about this.  He's slamming Obama for only being 47, which apparently equates to a lack of experience.  Then he chooses a 44 year old running mate.  Doh!

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QuoteMcCain needs to get his "inexperience ads" off the TV pronto.

Somewhere this morning I read about this.  He's slamming Obama for only being 47, which apparently equates to a lack of experience.  Then he chooses a 44 year old running mate.  Doh!

That was the first thing I said. How dare he slam Obama on his suppossed inexperience when he chooses someone with far less experience. Those ads need to disappear and quick. THIS FRIGHTENS THE SHIT OUT OF ME.

People, please consider that McCain is no spring chicken and is not in the greatest of health. You have to consider this. Do you potentially want her as Prez? Hell NO and it has nothing to do with her being a woman. I could care less about race or gender. She has no "national" experience. She has no working knowledge of how things really work in Washington. I'm sorry but being the major of a little town in Alaska and being Gov of the state with the least amount of people does not give you national exposure. Do you honestly expect her to get negotiate with the likes of Putin? I'm very very freightened by this prospect. I am going to be campaigning for Obama even harder now.

I remember reading an article about her a while back.  She has had one, if not two children while holding public office.  I understand that you have to do this sometime, but to me it seems like it would be a huge distraction to both bring a child into this world and run a state at the same time.

Not if you are a capable multitasker and have a capable hsuband along side.  Also I don't think McCain needs to remove the "inexperienced" ads one bit because that is what Obama is--one year (appox) as a senator and he's acting like its his divine right to be prez?  Additionally by saying those ads need to go leaves the implication that you expect McCain to keel over dead as soon as he takes the oath of office, which is rather macabre and very likely not the case.  She IS running for VP not Prez--sheesh!

what I find funy is all the discussion over people being picked as candidates solely on sex (Palin) or race (Obama); when, for the past 200+ years, no one really ever questioned that you had to be a white male to be president; no one ever questioned that the "best" candidate might not be a white male, but was only picked b/c they were a white male.

Progress   :)

^^What bothers me about that is that some people are still choosing who they will vote for *because* of arbitrary details like sex or race.

Is there really any difference between voting for someone simply because they are a white male and voting for someone *because* they are black or a female.

I was irritated when the CNN newscaster implied that a lot of women will be voting for McCain simply because he now has a female on board. That seems to imply that the newscaster doesn't find women capable of selecting an officer based on qualifications and his or her stance on the issues.

Yes, I'm glad this country seems to be willing to accept something other than the standard, but I wish more people were concerned about the important details, rather than the mundane ones.

/diatribe.

I wonder where Palin stands regarding equal pay for equal work? McCain doesn't support this simple human rights gender equality that "almost" all first and several developing and third-world nations  adhere to.

QuoteWhile it is possible, I kind of doubt he would have chosen a woman.  It also could have to do with trying to catch all those "Pro-Hillary but against Obama" votes.  I think thats more likely.

Palin won't get a single of the Clinton voters, she's staunchly anti-abortion - she was picked to pander to the male voters who like her for the MILF factor, to the religious folks for her pro-life stance, and to the gun nuts. It was a desperation move, and it won't work.

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QuoteWhile it is possible, I kind of doubt he would have chosen a woman.  It also could have to do with trying to catch all those "Pro-Hillary but against Obama" votes.  I think thats more likely.

Palin won't get a single of the Clinton voters, she's staunchly anti-abortion - she was picked to pander to the male voters who like her for the MILF factor, to the religious folks for her pro-life stance, and to the gun nuts. It was a desperation move, and it won't work.

Very much so, and I don't know why. He'd been getting better over time in the polls. More and more people were starting to turn against Obama. He's losing every bit of momentum he's built up over the past few months. It would take a masterstroke (or obama would have to completely fall apart) for him to win the election now.

QuoteI wonder where Palin stands regarding equal pay for equal work? McCain doesn't support this simple human rights gender equality that "almost" all first and several developing and third-world nations  adhere to.

Are you talking about the Ledbetter Bill? So McCain doesnt support equal pay because he didnt support a bill thats sum total of purpose was to remove the statute of limitations imposed on those who want to sue their employer? Thats just what America needs, more lawsuits and more government involvement in private business. Just another example of using a simple phrase or sound byte to argue a position in an issue that is much broader than a simple slogan. You can still support equal pay even if you dont get behind silly bills that twist language and dont really address the issue.

The irony behind the "Hope and Change" Barackalypse is that the whole "power to the people" idea is a joke. Power to the people by making the government bigger? Sure, that makes a ton of sense.

QuoteWhat bothers me about that is that some people are still choosing who they will vote for *because* of arbitrary details like sex or race.

Is there really any difference between voting for someone simply because they are a white male and voting for someone *because* they are black or a female.

I was irritated when the CNN newscaster implied that a lot of women will be voting for McCain simply because he now has a female on board. That seems to imply that the newscaster doesn't find women capable of selecting an officer based on qualifications and his or her stance on the issues.

Yes, I'm glad this country seems to be willing to accept something other than the standard, but I wish more people were concerned about the important details, rather than the mundane ones.

/diatribe.

Very true. I think Obama's done a good job of downplaying that factor, even though it's giving him a rout in the southern states.

QuoteNot if you are a capable multitasker and have a capable hsuband along side.  Also I don't think McCain needs to remove the "inexperienced" ads one bit because that is what Obama is--one year (appox) as a senator and he's acting like its his divine right to be prez?  Additionally by saying those ads need to go leaves the implication that you expect McCain to keel over dead as soon as he takes the oath of office, which is rather macabre and very likely not the case.  She IS running for VP not Prez--sheesh!

I agree with you on the parent thing. I don't see that as an issue.

However on the experience, there is a big difference. Obama has some National experience (granted not decades) and he has a VP that isn't sickly and would be a great advisor and would be capable of taking over. Obama is known and knows who he can trust and work with. What and who does she know? Granted, not being a Washington insider is probably good, but if you do not know how things work, you are going to get nowhere.

I do not think my view as morbid. This is a very real scenario that needs to be considered and many polical analysts do. That is one of the roles of the VP, asume control when the Prez is incapable of doing so. Yes McCain is older and has has serious health issues. And McCain himself has even has said that he might not live through his entire administration. Again it is a very real scenario that needs to be considered.

Also, is she going to be a valuble advisor? I do not think so. I think this is just a move on his part to try to appeal to woman voters and I hope it backfires. He has never worked with her and other then their announcement, has only met her once. He only decided on her after talking to her on the phone. If this is how he decides things, yikes. I do not think this was a wise choice and not very well thought out on his part. I am not saying this because I am a diehard Dem. If I was a McCain supporter, I would be furious.

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QuoteNot if you are a capable multitasker and have a capable hsuband along side.  Also I don't think McCain needs to remove the "inexperienced" ads one bit because that is what Obama is--one year (appox) as a senator and he's acting like its his divine right to be prez?  Additionally by saying those ads need to go leaves the implication that you expect McCain to keel over dead as soon as he takes the oath of office, which is rather macabre and very likely not the case.  She IS running for VP not Prez--sheesh!

I agree with you on the parent thing. I don't see that as an issue.

However on the experience, there is a big difference. Obama has some National experience (granted not decades) and he has a VP that isn't sickly and would be a great advisor and would be capable of taking over. Obama is known and knows who he can trust and work with. What and who does she know? Granted, not being a Washington insider is probably good, but if you do not know how things work, you are going to get nowhere.

You got that right. How else would he have navigated the corrupt Chicago political machine that he came up through? Its amazing that he could get through that without forming questionable relationships with politicos like Emil Jones and the Stroger family. Ohhh, thats right...he did.

QuotePower to the people by making the government bigger? Sure, that makes a ton of sense.

Are you really playing the "bigger government" card, just because Obama is the Democratic candidate? Seems to me that the GOP has done an incredibly poor job of fulfilling their promises of smaller government. How about fixing the government to work better, not bigger? Maybe we'd be better off if we could look at what each candidate really wants to do, and not just automatically dismiss their ideas based on worn-out preconceptions of party affiliation. If my vote for Obama helps get him elected (which it won't cuz I'm in OK), and it turns out that he wrecks the country with his humungous gubmint progrums,  then color me the stupid liberal, and by all means let's get one of those "conservative" republicans in office next time - but the last time this country had a budget surplus was when one of those commie Democrats was in charge. And I could give 2 shits about what kind of "experience" the various candidates has, what matters to me is what kind of policies they will put into place when they are placed in office. Personally, after the events of the last 8 years, I'd like to see less power being wielded by the executive branch, and see it distributed evenly amongst the 3 branches in the manner that the founders envisioned.

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QuotePower to the people by making the government bigger? Sure, that makes a ton of sense.

Are you really playing the "bigger government" card, just because Obama is the Democratic candidate? Seems to me that the GOP has done an incredibly poor job of fulfilling their promises of smaller government. How about fixing the government to work better, not bigger? Maybe we'd be better off if we could look at what each candidate really wants to do, and not just automatically dismiss their ideas based on worn-out preconceptions of party affiliation. If my vote for Obama helps get him elected (which it won't cuz I'm in OK), and it turns out that he wrecks the country with his humungous gubmint progrums,  then color me the stupid liberal, and by all means let's get one of those "conservative" republicans in office next time - but the last time this country had a budget surplus was when one of those commie Democrats was in charge. And I could give 2 shits about what kind of "experience" the various candidates has, what matters to me is what kind of policies they will put into place when they are placed in office. Personally, after the events of the last 8 years, I'd like to see less power being wielded by the executive branch, and see it distributed evenly amongst the 3 branches in the manner that the founders envisioned.

Worn out preconceptions?

-Expanded medicaid and forced employee contributions
-Imposed a windfall profits tax on oil companies
-tax credits for buying certain cars
-government imposed sick day requirements
-tax credits and incentives to build fuel efficient cars
-tax increases for the wealthy, with the intention of letting the Bush middle class tax cuts expire in 2010
-dumping billions into environmental jobs and regulating the infrastructure industry
-raising social security taxes for those who make over 250K despite the fact that those individuals will not use social security upon retirement
-wants to "re-address" NAFTA and other trade regulations, which is the  gateway to imposing trade barriers

And thats just off the top of my head. I understand the full on infatuation with Obama. People are fed up with the current administration and the "change" mantra has struck a cord. But the sad truth is that Obama is more of the same. He's a politician like every other in America. His programs show clearly that he thinks people dont know how to handle their own lives. Rest assured that if elected big government will reign supreme. Those preconceptions are "worn out" for the same reasons things become a cliche: because they are true.

Recent estimates put Obama's spending at around 800 million. There is no way his tax increases for those making over 250K will pay for all of that. By 2010 the Bush tax cuts (the same cuts McCain wants to make permanent) will expire and the middle class will once again begin to fund the democratic "tax, spend, regulate" plans of old.

I dont dislike Obama. His is a great story and a wonderful example of what one determined individual could do in America. Its his policies (and the near religious fervor of some of his "flock") that I dont like. As a Libertarian all I see are plans to give the government more access to our wallets and more say over our lives. I dont like that. And while there was a surplus the last time the "commie Democrats" (you said it, not me) were in charge, take a look a little deeper into the past to see how plans similar to Obama (windfall taxes under Carter, for one) fared.  I'll save you the research: last time a windfall penalty was imposted it yielded half as much as expected while it dropped domestic energy production. Which would leave us...right about where we're at. But the average American hears "We're goin' after Big Oil! No breaks for them! And now YOU are gonna see some of that money!".

Finally, I agree that it would be nice to see power split between the 3 branches but I dont think Obama will do that, either. Under Obama the Supreme Court will see an influx of "progressive" justices interpreting a "living Constitution"; that is, it means whatever the hell they want it to mean. That scares the crap out of me, as it should any American.

QuoteNot if you are a capable multitasker and have a capable hsuband along side.  Also I don't think McCain needs to remove the "inexperienced" ads one bit because that is what Obama is--one year (appox) as a senator and he's acting like its his divine right to be prez?  Additionally by saying those ads need to go leaves the implication that you expect McCain to keel over dead as soon as he takes the oath of office, which is rather macabre and very likely not the case.  She IS running for VP not Prez--sheesh!

ACTUALLY, Obama has been an Illinois State Senator since 2005.  That would make it about three years, not one.  He was also a state legislator from 1997 to 2004 and has been on the Foreign Relations Committee since January 2007.  

Now, I can understand that is still not TONS of experience, but people need to realize that it is not JUST Obama that will be in office.  He will not make all decisions on his own.  He has a cabinet, advisors and not to mention the House and the Senate to watch his every move.  

Did you know that many people from foreign nations would actually prefer Barack Obama?  I can find the link to the article I read about this if you'd like me to.  People around the world WANT change, positivity, movement.  

PS - I don't understand anyone that would abandon their beliefs to vote for someone else just because of gender.  If people were going to vote for Hilary Clinton because their views were aligned with hers, moving to Palin now is only doing yourself an injustice.  She's a travesty to the modern woman.

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QuoteMcCain needs to get his "inexperience ads" off the TV pronto.

Somewhere this morning I read about this.  He's slamming Obama for only being 47, which apparently equates to a lack of experience.  Then he chooses a 44 year old running mate.  Doh!

That was the first thing I said. How dare he slam Obama on his suppossed inexperience when he chooses someone with far less experience. Those ads need to disappear and quick. THIS FRIGHTENS THE SHIT OUT OF ME.

People, please consider that McCain is no spring chicken and is not in the greatest of health. You have to consider this. Do you potentially want her as Prez? Hell NO and it has nothing to do with her being a woman. I could care less about race or gender. She has no "national" experience. She has no working knowledge of how things really work in Washington. I'm sorry but being the major of a little town in Alaska and being Gov of the state with the least amount of people does not give you national exposure. Do you honestly expect her to get negotiate with the likes of Putin? I'm very very freightened by this prospect. I am going to be campaigning for Obama even harder now.

just as many presidents have been governors as have come from the senate --maybe it's close? she has more experience than obama---leading a state govt (no matter how small) is closer than representing your home state and sitting on various committees---voters trust governors more than they trust senators--

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Quote

Did you know that many people from foreign nations would actually prefer Barack Obama?  I can find the link to the article I read about this if you'd like me to.  People around the world WANT change, positivity, movement.  

depending on which nations you're speaking of, that could be used for or against him---but i agree

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Did you know that many people from foreign nations would actually prefer Barack Obama?  I can find the link to the article I read about this if you'd like me to.  People around the world WANT change, positivity, movement.  

depending on which nations you're speaking of, that could be used for or against him---but i agree

true, but i think this whole campaign against "inexperience" is just a ploy to draw voters away from the real issues.  which is also why he chose palin as well, in my opinion.

i couldn't really stand mccain, but i especially cannot stand palin.  i'm a woman as well.

 :-/

From April 6, 2008

Alaska residents are about to lose their right to vote on Alaska issues in which Gov. Sarah Palin has a special interest.

She's stopping the democratic initiative process by supporting House Bill 256 (already passed) and next her companion Senate Bill 176.

If passed, this will take away Alaskans' right to vote on the aerial wolf kill initiative and remove sound science from predator control allowing same-day airborne killing of wolves and bears. If passed, this will give her friends at the Alaska Outdoor Council and Board of Game free reign to kill Alaska's predators regardless of their actual impact on prey populations.

Palin has repeatedly stated she wants an administration responsive to Alaskans, but more than 56,000 Alaskans signed petitions to have the aerial predator measure put on the ballot (for a third time); Palin does not want you to vote on it.

If her bill passes it will be the beginning of the end of Alaskans' right to the initiative process. Your only recourse would be a Board of Game populated almost entirely by outdoor council members. They can and do often pass regulations in defiance of what the majority of Alaskans want and what scientists have said, as shown both times Alaskan voters banned aerial hunting.

http://www.akwildlife.org/content/view/104/67/

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T85cOGc8L0[/media]

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QuoteMcCain needs to get his "inexperience ads" off the TV pronto.

Somewhere this morning I read about this.  He's slamming Obama for only being 47, which apparently equates to a lack of experience.  Then he chooses a 44 year old running mate.  Doh!

That was the first thing I said. How dare he slam Obama on his suppossed inexperience when he chooses someone with far less experience. Those ads need to disappear and quick. THIS FRIGHTENS THE SHIT OUT OF ME.

People, please consider that McCain is no spring chicken and is not in the greatest of health. You have to consider this. Do you potentially want her as Prez? Hell NO and it has nothing to do with her being a woman. I could care less about race or gender. She has no "national" experience. She has no working knowledge of how things really work in Washington. I'm sorry but being the major of a little town in Alaska and being Gov of the state with the least amount of people does not give you national exposure. Do you honestly expect her to get negotiate with the likes of Putin? I'm very very freightened by this prospect. I am going to be campaigning for Obama even harder now.

just as many presidents have been governors as have come from the senate --maybe it's close? she has more experience than obama---leading a state govt (no matter how small) is closer than representing your home state and sitting on various committees---voters trust governors more than they trust senators--

and she's been governer for a little under two years?

i mean, do we want to split hairs here?  i don't really care about the experience everyone is freaking out about, i want to look at the issues.  i just don't agree with her, i can't vote for her just because she's a woman.  

ALSO another thing that people need to keep in mind if they want to keep talking about EXPERIENCE - George W. himself CAMPAIGNED on the fact that he "didn't have experience and wasn't a Washington insider" when he ran in 2000.  The American people ate it up.....and now this is a problem?

No matter what, I think that America has, for a long time, been moving further and further away from our amazing potential.  but then again i'm probably just naive in thinking that things COULD be BETTER than the way they are right now.  Nothing can be perfect but look at all the corruption going on right now.  It has to stop.  I don't care what party the President is from, it has to stop.

Will it ever though?  Anywhere?  

George Washington was in a cult, and the cult was into aliens, man.  Did you ever look at a dollar bill, man? There's some spooky shit goin' on there. And it's green too.

QuoteGeorge Washington was in a cult, and the cult was into aliens, man.  Did you ever look at a dollar bill, man? There's some spooky shit goin' on there. And it's green too.

(http://videodetective.com/photos/113/004766_2.jpg)

what's odd, and pretty much sums up how moronic the whole election process has become, is that the Republicans are pushing a CHANGE agenda and there has been a Republican president in office for the past 8 years. But they want change.... Afte 8 years of having a Republican for president, the Republicans are pushing for change.

Is anyone paying attention?

Tracy, I know exactly what you're talking about.  I just don't understand why they've taken that approach.  

Sarah Palin reminds me of the freshman girl who proposes to Dawson.  

(http://www.innovatingtowin.com/innovating_to_win/images/pig-lipstick.jpg)

Ha!

its all about the debates. that is when we will get to see the true bushisms of mccain and palin. i'm looking forward to seeing obama hand mccain's old crusty ass to him.

obama is a condescending douche who never votes yes or no on anything, just 'cause he is so afraid of how it will affect his opinion polls.  he is also writing a lot of checks his ass can't cash. if he really gave two shits about this country, he would have put his pride aside and chosen hillary- fully established as a trusted candidate with a proven track record- as his running mate. that would have locked down the presidency for the dems. nothing against joe biden, who I know is an accomplished man in his own right...just sayin'.
he just seems to want to be a celebrity. writing all of these self-serving biographies? they're no 'profiles in courage', or 'why england slept', barry.
sarah palin gets shit done. of course it was a strategy to choose a woman. is that not modern-day politics in a nutshell? why is it that democats 'strategize' and the gop 'manipulate'?
the world is not a black or white, male or female place these days. just because george bush is a retard doesn't mean that a man who started his career in civil service in a fucking pow camp and never stopped and a woman who has run not only a town but a state while raising a bunch of kids are less competent than some dude who NEVER VOTES!
we all need to work towards the abolition of BIPARTISAN GOVERNMENT NOW! or at least by the next election!

Quoteobama is a condescending douche who never votes yes or no on anything, just 'cause he is so afraid of how it will affect his opinion polls.  he is also writing a lot of checks his ass can't cash. if he really gave two shits about this country, he would have put his pride aside and chosen hillary- fully established as a trusted candidate with a proven track record- as his running mate. that would have locked down the presidency for the dems. nothing against joe biden, who I know is an accomplished man in his own right...just sayin'.
he just seems to want to be a celebrity. writing all of these self-serving biographies? they're no 'profiles in courage', or 'why england slept', barry.
sarah palin gets shit done. of course it was a strategy to choose a woman. is that not modern-day politics in a nutshell? why is it that democats 'strategize' and the gop 'manipulate'?
the world is not a black or white, male or female place these days. just because george bush is a retard doesn't mean that a man who started his career in civil service in a fucking pow camp and never stopped and a woman who has run not only a town but a state while raising a bunch of kids are less competent than some dude who NEVER VOTES!
we all need to work towards the abolition of BIPARTISAN GOVERNMENT NOW! or at least by the next election!

WOW, are you sure you needed to put that last sentence in there ?   :)
I'm assuming your an independent ? and that you've  read Obamas & Bidens books.

p.s.  Turn off Rush Limbaugh.

Quoteobama is a condescending douche who never votes yes or no on anything, just 'cause he is so afraid of how it will affect his opinion polls.

So, who spoon fed you this information? I challenge you to do a little research; it took me about 10 seconds, probably 1/10th the time it took you to post your manifesto, to find Obama's record on key votes.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/key-votes/

You said Obama NEVER votes yes/no. You are wrong. And you really aren't helping the political process by simply making shit up, or repeating something you heard someone else make up, simply b/c they don't want Obama elected.

Think for yourself and quit lying.

thanks

Quoteobama is a condescending douche who never votes yes or no on anything, just 'cause he is so afraid of how it will affect his opinion polls.  he is also writing a lot of checks his ass can't cash. if he really gave two shits about this country, he would have put his pride aside and chosen hillary- fully established as a trusted candidate with a proven track record- as his running mate. that would have locked down the presidency for the dems. nothing against joe biden, who I know is an accomplished man in his own right...just sayin'.
he just seems to want to be a celebrity. writing all of these self-serving biographies? they're no 'profiles in courage', or 'why england slept', barry.
sarah palin gets shit done. of course it was a strategy to choose a woman. is that not modern-day politics in a nutshell? why is it that democats 'strategize' and the gop 'manipulate'?
the world is not a black or white, male or female place these days. just because george bush is a retard doesn't mean that a man who started his career in civil service in a fucking pow camp and never stopped and a woman who has run not only a town but a state while raising a bunch of kids are less competent than some dude who NEVER VOTES!
we all need to work towards the abolition of BIPARTISAN GOVERNMENT NOW! or at least by the next election!

so what exactly does Palin 'get done'?
Lets see...

Ohh, what about that time she was mayor and then left that town with a $20 million dollar debt....

http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/09/03/wasilla-in-debt/

What about that time she made rape victims pay for their own rape kits:

http://stopallmonsters.blogspot.com/2008/09/female-george-bush-gets-lot-creepier.html

What about that time she lied to her own state's people about the wolf hunting situation :

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/analysis/450

Just because she is a women doesn't mean she is what our country needs.  It sounds like you are just mad at Obama because he didn't choose Mrs Clinton as a running mate.

Why?

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Quoteobama is a condescending douche who never votes yes or no on anything, just 'cause he is so afraid of how it will affect his opinion polls.

you've just described every politician everywhere/anywhere other than during war time--a politician's job is to get re-elected. it starts the day they take office.... don't try to make anyone out to be great or awful--figure out which issues are important to you and then vote based on that. not sure why people are making any of these candidates out to be evil (present admin excluded) or rock stars.

Present.

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Quoteobama is a condescending douche who never votes yes or no on anything, just 'cause he is so afraid of how it will affect his opinion polls.

christ on a cupcake, you're an MMJ fan?

why, yes! yes I am! for many years, in fact! although, according to this forum, mmj should disown me as a fan. I don't seem to fit into the 'demographic'.
as usual, god forbid anyone has a different opinion. tracy sez I am a liar. ooooh. that hurts about as much as any of the other snide bullshit I have ever received as a response. as in: not at all. yes, tracy, I have read both of obama's books. and found them to be self-serving drivel, and poorly written to boot. soooo- sue me! I must be 'rich' since I am so clearly a 'right-wing' 'asshole'! right?! well played!
boy, I sure do hope that someday I can come up with a post chock fulla unenlightened, elitist, 'SPOON-FED' snob bullshit everypone can agree with!
and, indeed, Mister Anthrope, christ is the frosting. cheers!

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Quoteobama is a condescending douche who never votes yes or no on anything, just 'cause he is so afraid of how it will affect his opinion polls.  he is also writing a lot of checks his ass can't cash. if he really gave two shits about this country, he would have put his pride aside and chosen hillary- fully established as a trusted candidate with a proven track record- as his running mate. that would have locked down the presidency for the dems. nothing against joe biden, who I know is an accomplished man in his own right...just sayin'.
he just seems to want to be a celebrity. writing all of these self-serving biographies? they're no 'profiles in courage', or 'why england slept', barry.
sarah palin gets shit done. of course it was a strategy to choose a woman. is that not modern-day politics in a nutshell? why is it that democats 'strategize' and the gop 'manipulate'?
the world is not a black or white, male or female place these days. just because george bush is a retard doesn't mean that a man who started his career in civil service in a fucking pow camp and never stopped and a woman who has run not only a town but a state while raising a bunch of kids are less competent than some dude who NEVER VOTES!
we all need to work towards the abolition of BIPARTISAN GOVERNMENT NOW! or at least by the next election!

so what exactly does Palin 'get done'?
Lets see...

Ohh, what about that time she was mayor and then left that town with a $20 million dollar debt....

http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/09/03/wasilla-in-debt/

What about that time she made rape victims pay for their own rape kits:

http://stopallmonsters.blogspot.com/2008/09/female-george-bush-gets-lot-creepier.html

What about that time she lied to her own state's people about the wolf hunting situation :

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/analysis/450

Just because she is a women doesn't mean she is what our country needs.  It sounds like you are just mad at Obama because he didn't choose Mrs Clinton as a running mate.

Why?

p.s. not a feminist either. in fact, I have fucking hated my state senator hilary clinton for years!  great assumption though!  heeee hawww

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Quoteobama is a condescending douche who never votes yes or no on anything, just 'cause he is so afraid of how it will affect his opinion polls.

christ on a cupcake, you're an MMJ fan?

why, yes! yes I am! for many years, in fact! although, according to this forum, mmj should disown me as a fan. I don't seem to fit into the 'demographic'.
as usual, god forbid anyone has a different opinion. tracy sez I am a liar. ooooh. that hurts about as much as any of the other snide bullshit I have ever received as a response. as in: not at all. yes, tracy, I have read both of obama's books. and found them to be self-serving drivel, and poorly written to boot. soooo- sue me! I must be 'rich' since I am so clearly a 'right-wing' 'asshole'! right?! well played!
boy, I sure do hope that someday I can come up with a post chock fulla unenlightened, elitist, 'SPOON-FED' snob bullshit everypone can agree with!
and, indeed, Mister Anthrope, christ is the frosting. cheers!

ha ha --that's what people say about me when they inevitably find out i'm a huge ann coulter fan---actually the demographic for repubs is normally somewhere in mid income level and liberals are usually at bottom or top of the range. most of the richest congressmen (women) are democrats---probably not relevant to this discussion but interesting

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tracy sez I am a liar. ooooh. that hurts about as much as any of the other snide bullshit I have ever received as a response. as in: not at all. yes, tracy, I have read both of obama's books. and found them to be self-serving drivel, and poorly written to boot. soooo- sue me! I must be 'rich' since I am so clearly a 'right-wing' 'asshole'! right?! well played!
boy, I sure do hope that someday I can come up with a post chock fulla unenlightened, elitist, 'SPOON-FED' snob bullshit everypone can agree with!

I guess Obama can't express himself as eloquently as you...

You, have a gift!

(and by gift, I mean your post is jibberish)

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ha ha --that's what people say about me when they inevitably find out i'm a huge ann coulter fan

Ann Coulter? Come on. Really? Closed minded and hateful? You're a huge fan? wow
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wnPHFSdrME[/media]

and this is my favorite, another example of people just "making shit up"

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FKF4Z36hyQ[/media]

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ha ha --that's what people say about me when they inevitably find out i'm a huge ann coulter fanare democrats---probably not relevant to this discussion but interesting

Ann Coulter? Come on. Really? Closed minded and hateful? You're a huge fan? wow
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wnPHFSdrME[/media]

Nice Tracy. "we should all be christians". It's shocking that we have narrow minded people here.

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ha ha --that's what people say about me when they inevitably find out i'm a huge ann coulter fan

Ann Coulter? Come on. Really? Closed minded and hateful? You're a huge fan? wow
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wnPHFSdrME[/media]

that's the typical reaction i get from people who see her quotes taken out of context on the daily show or the view--people who've never read her books--she's a pundit and has a job to do---she does nothing that the left hasn't been doing for years --i don't take either side--but i like her ideas about the cold war, the mccarthy hearings--etc. her spots on cnn/fox/msnbc are great-if not her book, then try a bernard goldberg book who crossed over from the liberal side--both great reads. 'high crimes and misdemeanors' and 'treason' were both good--but her books after that were more of the same.

Any Rachel Maddow fans out there ?  Our is this Ann Coulter country over here  :).  

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ha ha --that's what people say about me when they inevitably find out i'm a huge ann coulter fan

Ann Coulter? Come on. Really? Closed minded and hateful? You're a huge fan? wow
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wnPHFSdrME[/media]

that's the typical reaction i get from people who see her quotes taken out of context on the daily show or the view-

How is showing a 5 minute, unedited interview of her "taking her out of context"? And she even had a couple of chances to "save face" and she balked.

Or a clip where she disagrees with the interviewer 5 times over whether Canada sent troops to Vietnam?

Those are within the exact context of the conversations. Good grief, how can you say that was taken out of context? Open your eyes

QuoteAny Rachel Maddow fans out there ?  Our is this Ann Coulter country over here  :).  

yikes, not a fan of her either. Not a fan of any of these political "pundits", the Glen Becks Bill O'Reillys, Keith Olbemans, Rush Limbaughs, Bill Mahers etc...

all media whores; digging in to the left or right mantra, an absolute catalyst to the decisiveness of our Left or Right joke of a political system.
All arrogant, hateful and closed minded; not how I want to spend my life.

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QuoteAny Rachel Maddow fans out there ?  Our is this Ann Coulter country over here  :).  

yikes, not a fan of her either. Not a fan of any of these political "pundits", the Glen Becks Bill O'Reillys, Keith Olbemans, Rush Limbaughs, Bill Mahers etc...

all media whores; digging in to the left or right mantra, an absolute catalyst to the decisiveness of our Left or Right joke of a political system.
All arrogant, hateful and closed minded; not how I want to spend my life.

You mean your not going to pick a side ?  I'm confused.  I thought you had to be one or the other  :D

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QuoteAny Rachel Maddow fans out there ?  Our is this Ann Coulter country over here  :).  

yikes, not a fan of her either. Not a fan of any of these political "pundits", the Glen Becks Bill O'Reillys, Keith Olbemans, Rush Limbaughs, Bill Mahers etc...

all media whores; digging in to the left or right mantra, an absolute catalyst to the decisiveness of our Left or Right joke of a political system.
All arrogant, hateful and closed minded; not how I want to spend my life.

You mean your not going to pick a side ?  I'm confused.  I thought you had to be one or the other  :D

seems that way, doesn't it. No, I don't discriminate, I hate everyone on an equal basis   ;)

If Ann Coulter honestly believes that everybody in America should be Christian (and in that interview she says as much, totally in context), then she is absolutely against the ideals that this country was founded upon. "Punditry" or not, her opinions about people that think differently from her are destructive and divisive, and only helps to increase the split between normal people and the intolerant.
Does anybody think she truly advocates totalitarian theocracy, or does she just do it for the lulz?

i don't see the difference between the people who want to take religion out everything and people who believe this country was founded as a christian nation. ....liberal pundits have been being nasty for years--she's just as bad in that respect but i like some of the ideas in her books---

I agree with you penny, that people that are on the far ends of the spectrum are way out of step with the vast majority of Americans. I certainly don't want to see religion removed from society, but I really don't want live in a theocracy either. And I don't believe either of those things will happen here. The problem I have with Coulter is that she paints with a broad brush all those who disagree with her flavor of Republican Conservatism as communist-sympathizing America-hating liberals, and hence all Democrats, as treason traitors, with no exceptions - so that's at least half of the population of the United States who should be either locked up, exiled, or shot, or whatever it is that she would propose to do with us. That's not even counting those members of the Republican party who happen to be of the wrong religion, those "imperfect" souls who weren't lucky enough to be born into a Christian tradition, and are therefore not acceptable Americans - unless of course they convert (I am paraphrasing her own hyperbole, not just making it up). I suppose she may have some good ideas to admire in her books, as you say, but I hope this is not one of them.

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so what exactly does Palin 'get done'?
Lets see...

Ohh, what about that time she was mayor and then left that town with a $20 million dollar debt....

http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/09/03/wasilla-in-debt/

What about that time she made rape victims pay for their own rape kits:

http://stopallmonsters.blogspot.com/2008/09/female-george-bush-gets-lot-creepier.html

What about that time she lied to her own state's people about the wolf hunting situation :

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/analysis/450

Just because she is a women doesn't mean she is what our country needs.  It sounds like you are just mad at Obama because he didn't choose Mrs Clinton as a running mate.

Why?

So posting articles from left wing websites somehow magically make them fact?  We could play this game all day, but maybe it would be more productive to post some information about the darling of the media's plan for this country cuz  have yet to hear anything substantial--just a continual mantra of "change" and "yes we can".  I do find it hilarious the the democrat candidate for job #1 is so worried about the Republican candidate for VP.

P.S.--Penny I love you for loving Ann ;)

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

It was easy to find.  Mccain could of even found it, oops. Sorry I forgot he has never even turned on a computer  ::) Thats who I want running our country. His beta vcr still blinks 12:00.  This guy can't be for real. I guess if you are one of the 27% of the country that approves of the job bush has done, Mccain is your man. He has voted with Bush 95% of the time. What is the definition of Maverick again ? I don't think it applies here.
                    I can't wait until the debates. Lets get this party started.  Lets see how Mccsame seperates himself from Bush.  Unless, again thats what you enjoy.

QuoteThat's not even counting those members of the Republican party who happen to be of the wrong religion, those "imperfect" souls who weren't lucky enough to be born into a Christian tradition, and are therefore not acceptable Americans -

She said she would not vote for McCain if McCain got the nomination, that's why you haven't seen her on Fox news for a while; the conservative elite media have put her out to pasture until the election is over.

yeah she definitely got blackballed for that....

crispy--you are right-----i definitely don't support a theocracy, the religious right in govt is scary--at the same time, i think the govt's done a crappy job of doing what the church USED to do (system of dependency/TANF/SSI completely out of control)--i just don't think any issue is so cut and dry-- the reason i like her writing is because she opened my eyes to new ideas about the cold war/communism/mccarthy hearings/whittaker chambers--i had been taught one way of thinking from the media/schooling--and she challenged those thoughts---it's not just her, i like all sorts of people w/ideas about this country's problems----i like reading pat buchanan --does that make me evil? watching a bunch of you tube clips isn't going to change my opinion of her...she's not an idiot (editor of U of M law review)--she knows what she's doing and she likes attention--i look past that and find some of her ideas stimulating--not saying i agree w/everything she says--

QuoteThats who I want running our country. His beta vcr still blinks 12:00.  This guy can't be for real.

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't know if being computer literate is really that important given the problems our country is facing right now. What is important to me is that the President has a realistic grasp of what can be done in a single term to protect our country, and has the good sense to put capable people in the position to get these things done without sacrificing our liberties or nationalizing industry. I'm talking about the economy and national security - I don't care if McCain can't find Borat clips on YouTube from his iPhone.

QuoteI guess if you are one of the 27% of the country that approves of the job bush has done, Mccain is your man. He has voted with Bush 95% of the time. What is the definition of Maverick again ? I don't think it applies here.

Obama is among the top ten most partisan members of the senate. He's voted along the party line 97% of the time. So McCain reaches across and votes against his own party more than Obama does. And as far as approval ratings go... Congress has a lower rating than Bush, so what do you propose?

QuoteLets see how Mccsame seperates himself from Bush.

McCain is not running against Bush. He's running against Barack Huessain Obama... The politician from Chicago who has tried to separate himself from a list of wonderful characters such as Bill Ayers, Tony Rezko, Reverend Wright, Fannie and Freddie, etc.

QuoteShe said she would not vote for McCain if McCain got the nomination, that's why you haven't seen her on Fox news for a while; the conservative elite media have put her out to pasture until the election is over.

She said she'd vote for Hillary before she votes for McCain.  ;D

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McCain is not running against Bush. He's running against Barack Huessain Obama...

that right there is the republicans best weapon: fear

Barack Huessain Obama. Look, see? look at his name; he cannot be trusted.

The implication that Obama is a Muslim, thus a terrorist, is the quickest way republicans have found to the heart of some voters, which is fear. It's simple, you don't have to think and it's juvenile (oh, and by the way, it's not true). It worked in 2004 and the dumb ass democrats jumped in, touting Kerry's military record (which the republicans trashed).

I have a Kurdish friend who is 25. He is Muslim. He has a Muslim sounding name b/c he was born in Kurdistan and he is Muslim. Some would say he is a terrorist b/c of his name. He has been in America for about 15 years. I went to his brother's wedding, he married a friend of mine; it was beautiful. There were lots of Kurdish people there with Muslim sounding names; some of you would have been nervous. He says he can feel the fear coming off some white men who wear business suits. He says to me, "If they only knew how afraid I am of them and who really has the power in this equation."

I hate that shit that people need to use fear and intimidation to get their "point" across. I mean, why doesn't the Republican party just come out and say Obama is black and that's why you should fear him? I mean, the odds of getting killed by a black guy are exponentially higher than getting killed by a Muslim extremist, right?  When's the last time a Muslim extremist killed a white person in America? Hell, every day a black man kills a white person. But it's not "PC" to play to the white fear of black people; let's just stick to the PC version of fear of Muslims. Come on Republicans, don't give me that watered down, pussy ass fear of hating Muslims, that's just a trend; speak your minds and talk about your real fear.

Shit like that is so uncalled for, but there it is.

Racism 2008: Hate a Muslim.

absolute bullshit and ridiculous to think people play that card. I wish you could sit with his beautiful children and explain to them why their daddy needs to be thought of as a terrorist.

As a social worker, do you know how many black, single moms I have worked with over the years? and their teenage children in distress? and dad can't be found anywhere? Now here comes Obama, a man who stands for family and service, a black man doing the right thing (and there's a lot of them, but not enough) but you want to break him down and call him a terrorist. A black man comes along who is doing so well on so many levels and you got to beat him down with this racist shit. And for what? Political reasons.

So tired of the right wing fear mongering ass clowns. It's hard to love these people...
(man, if only Joe Biden's middle name was Humberto...)

Fear will definitely play a role and I agree it will benefit the Republicans this election... After all, isn't that how it happened last time? Or was it the time before that? Or both? Can't remember.

I don't think, or don't want to believe that race is going to play a big role in this election, but a recent poll said 1/3rd of the polled Democrats said they wouldn't vote for Obama only because he's black. Meanwhile, what percentage of blacks will come out to vote for Obama only because he's black?

The Muslim/Terrorist thing is just weird to me, Tracy. Every time I've asked someone where they've come up with the idea, it goes back to viral e-mails and that sort of thing. I was having lunch somewhere and the table next to me was discussing that... it was like something out of a Twilight Zone episode about the Red Scare.

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The Muslim/Terrorist thing is just weird to me, Tracy. Every time I've asked someone where they've come up with the idea, it goes back to viral e-mails and that sort of thing. I was having lunch somewhere and the table next to me was discussing that... it was like something out of a Twilight Zone episode about the Red Scare.

You're the one who wrote Barack Huessain Obama; that's called fanning the flame of fear.  Funny how you didn't write John "Sidney" McCain.

QuoteYou're the one who wrote Barack Huessain Obama; that's called fanning the flame of fear.  Funny how you didn't write John "Sidney" McCain.

;D

Nice.

p.s. It's Hussein, my bad.

I just realized McCain and Biden both have girly middle names. Obviously not fit to lead.

And the sad part is yes there are waaaay to many people who see Obama's name and freak out for no fucking reason what so ever. It actually angers me when ignorant people spout out stupid shit like he's a Muslim and think it's fact. If he was a Republican I would still be angry. Fear and ingnorance like that just really bother me to no end. I sit next to a woman who said and I am directly quoting she's "deathly afraid of him because of his name. Hello, look who we are fighting." My blood pressure I thought was going to hit 300 that day.....

QuoteAnd the sad part is yes there are waaaay to many people who see Obama's name and freak out for no fucking reason what so ever. It actually angers me when ignorant people spout out stupid shit like he's a Muslim and think it's fact. If he was a Republican I would still be angry. Fear and ingnorance like that just really bother me to no end. I sit next to a woman who said and I am directly quoting she's "deathly afraid of him because of his name. Hello, look who we are fighting." My blood pressure I thought was going to hit 300 that day.....

Damn Mike shoot her in the face with a spit-ball ::)

QuoteAnd the sad part is yes there are waaaay to many people who see Obama's name and freak out for no fucking reason what so ever. It actually angers me when ignorant people spout out stupid shit like he's a Muslim and think it's fact. If he was a Republican I would still be angry. Fear and ingnorance like that just really bother me to no end. I sit next to a woman who said and I am directly quoting she's "deathly afraid of him because of his name. Hello, look who we are fighting." My blood pressure I thought was going to hit 300 that day.....

wear a turban to work, get a copy of the Koran, mumble stuff in Arabic....see what happens.

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McCain is not running against Bush. He's running against Barack Huessain Obama...

As a social worker, do you know how many black, single moms I have worked with over the years? and their teenage children in distress? and dad can't be found anywhere? Now here comes Obama, a man who stands for family and service, a black man doing the right thing (and there's a lot of them, but not enough) but you want to break him down and call him a terrorist. A black man comes along who is doing so well on so many levels and you got to beat him down with this racist shit. And for what? Political reasons.

So tired of the right wing fear mongering ass clowns. It's hard to love these people...
(man, if only Joe Biden's middle name was Humberto...)

Tracy--that's probably the main reason i'll vote for him--i don't like ANY of his policies-- BUT he will give everyone, namely baby daddies and other lazy pieces of sh*t in our society, no more excuses as to why they can't compete--also i think race issues are just as prevalent now as they are in the 50s--more people will not vote for him because of his color than because of his middle name.  i see people reading the koran on the train sometimes, i guess it's not as shocking here---it's really a very peaceful religion---poverty and isolation creates terrorists--i hate it when they associate it w/religion or the koran

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QuoteAnd the sad part is yes there are waaaay to many people who see Obama's name and freak out for no fucking reason what so ever. It actually angers me when ignorant people spout out stupid shit like he's a Muslim and think it's fact. If he was a Republican I would still be angry. Fear and ingnorance like that just really bother me to no end. I sit next to a woman who said and I am directly quoting she's "deathly afraid of him because of his name. Hello, look who we are fighting." My blood pressure I thought was going to hit 300 that day.....

wear a turban to work, get a copy of the Koran, mumble stuff in Arabic....see what happens.

;D ;D ;D Do it

Quote i see people reading the koran on the train sometimes, i guess it's not as shocking here---it's really a very peaceful religion---poverty and isolation creates terrorists--i hate it when they associate it w/religion or the koran

Which is why I always question people you freak out. If he happened to be a Muslim, so what? Does that automatically make him bad? Absolutly not. Since I work for a large multi national food giant, we have pretty much every nationality and religious preference here. I work with several Muslims, and the last thing I would ever think of is, Oh he's a Muslim, he's bad.... unlike my neighbors. I try to stay out of politcal/social debates at work because I'm the lone Obama supporter/liberal in a sea of Toby Keith fans and it just gets me upset. However I had to say something when it came to the stupid comments my neighbor made.

RC- I wish I was THAT bold.

Associating people with an evil cause because of their ethnicity/religion/heredity is one of the greatest evils itself in society. The same thing was done during World War II (and surely every other foreign war), when American citizens of Japanese, German, and Italian descent were looked on with fear and suspicion, and many were detained in interment camps. Everyone now admits the error of that kind of thinking (except Ann Coulter and her minions), and yet it continues today amongst those xenophobes who refuse to acknowledge that good people could possibly exist outside our borders. Our enemies are those cowardly few who use the name of Islam as their own pitiful justification for murdering innocent people, and it is reprehensible to regard all Muslims as such.

(http://tantilizingtreasures.com/procducts/Erotic%20Dice1.jpg)

Tracy--that's probably the main reason i'll vote for him--i don't like ANY of his policies-- BUT he will give everyone, namely baby daddies and other lazy pieces of sh*t in our society, no more excuses as to why they can't compete--also i think race issues are just as prevalent now as they are in the 50s--more people will not vote for him because of his color than because of his middle name.  i see people reading the koran on the train sometimes, i guess it's not as shocking here---it's really a very peaceful religion---poverty and isolation creates terrorists--i hate it when they associate it w/religion or the koran[/quote]

What exactly are you saying here? "Namely baby daddys and other lazy pieces of Sh*t in our society no more excuses as to why they can't compete'? Really? :-/

To vote for someone, when you openly admit you don't like any of his policies despite his brief legislative record, just so you can point at "lazy black people" and say, "Hey! Obama can do it, why can't you!" is pure insanity... but it's her vote to waste. Of course the question in my head is "If you don't like people living off of the government, then why would you help elect a Marxist?" BUT I DIGRESS!

Can you imagine the outrage if one of the three or four conservatives around here had said that thing about baby daddies, though? I mean, Tracy basically called me a fear fueling hate monger for referring to Obama by his full name. He'd have a fucking aneurysm if I'd done that, LOL.

Anyway, the main thing she had to say that I disagreed with though is her statement that "Islam is really a very peaceful religion." I mean, if you've done enough research to firmly believe that, then okay! That's your business and I won't get into the debate. But for some reason, in my brain, that statement coming from an American and/or woman just sounds totally absurd. But again, I DIGRESS!

do you know anything about the koran? how many muslims do you live near? it's not the religion itself that creates that---look at all the wars fought over christianity--and yes, for this election, as America takes a step back and these emerging market countries take a step forward, i think it's more important to have someone like obama in office RIGHT NOW---- it's more important to me than worrying about him raising the capital gains tax or his stance on health care, not to mention getting the religious right (bush, now palin) out of office....i like her but her views are scary to me --i like mccain---and i like some of what palin has done believe it or not---but he caved to the repub base and went against everything he's stood for to get elected--i understand that's the way it works--but please don't lecture me on WHAT issues should be important to me--obviously for someone like me to vote for an extreme tax and spend liberal, i've given this some thought---and please don't label me a liberal because i said baby daddy and got away with it..i believe in calling a spade a spade; i tell my white friends that and my black friends (and my muslim friends)

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I mean, Tracy basically called me a fear fueling hate monger for referring to Obama by his full name.

OK, give me 1 legitimate reason why some conservatives call Obama by his full name but they do not call anyone else by their full name?
I mean, in all seriousness, why focus on the name Hussein unless you're trying to evoke fear? What other reason is there?

And for the record, I don't let politics skew my voice. Many times I have defended Bush when people call him a racist; I've done it on this board. And I refer to Condoleeza Rice and how racists don't put black people in positions of power over whites; that's not racism.

I don't let someone's political views influence my opinion of what they are actually saying.

QuoteOf course the question in my head is "If you don't like people living off of the government, then why would you help elect a Marxist?"

A Marxist? Seriously? I'm sorry, which party's administration is it that is just now proposing to bailout private corporations with $700 billion of government money? Tax and spend?  The so-called 'conservatives' are guilty of exactly what they accuse Democrats of! Which party's administration has already just in this year increased the national debt by $1.5 trillion - which was the entire value of the national debt in 1979? The Bush administration has borrowed more money in the past decade than in all our previous 200-year history combined - $6 trillion more debt, it was $5 trillion in 1998. But the Bush administration vetoed a proposal last year to spend $7 billion on health care for poor people, because we couldn't afford it. What I'm thinking is, "If you don't like irresponsible corporations and their executives being presented golden parachutes from the government, then why would you vote for a Republican?" This trickle-down, supply-side economics stuff isn't working - shit rolls downhill, not money.

Barack Obama is not a Marxist. He does not intend to socialize our industries, he does not propose to make government bigger, he wants it to work BETTER. He doesn't want to raise taxes, he wants to lower them (for the lower 95% of us anyway). He wants to stop out of control government spending, specifically on a "war" that we're fighting in the wrong place. What is it that people don't like about a health care system where insurance would no longer be denied to sick people (and resources not wasted on figuring out how to deny it to them), and subsidized for those who can't afford it? If people in those situations were able to keep the money that would otherwise have to spend on medical care on their own, wouldn't that would help our economy and society overall?

I'm so sick of the old rhetoric thrown about of the perceptions of either party - 'Democrats are communists, Republicans are fascists'. Dammit, I think the vast majority of us would be considered moderates and we could work together if we weren't so polarized by those on either extreme calling each other names. It's become impossible to rationally discuss issues, because everyone is so focused on making the other guy look bad. I suppose I'm guilty of that in the first paragraph, but I tried to do it more by stating facts, not so much rhetoric.

crispy-i agree completely--why the good v. evil? i feel like it's a dumas novel or something---i don't trust anyone w/extreme views for either side---(which is why i liked mccain previously) it's okay to take a stance but if you can't see where the other side's coming from--both candidates will make the govt bigger in their own ways--is it so different wanting to elect someone who can be a role model to a segment of our society in desperate need of one rather than to attack the problem by kicking people off welfare rolls? just different ideas about how to solve the same problem--getting the govt out of our wallets is not a short fix--sometimes taxing the rich is fair and good but sometimes that's an even worse solution--

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QuoteOf course the question in my head is "If you don't like people living off of the government, then why would you help elect a Marxist?"

A Marxist? Seriously? I'm sorry, which party's administration is it that is just now proposing to bailout private corporations with $700 billion of government money? Tax and spend?  The so-called 'conservatives' are guilty of exactly what they accuse Democrats of! Which party's administration has already just in this year increased the national debt by $1.5 trillion - which was the entire value of the national debt in 1979? The Bush administration has borrowed more money in the past decade than in all our previous 200-year history combined - $6 trillion more debt, it was $5 trillion in 1998. But the Bush administration vetoed a proposal last year to spend $7 billion on health care for poor people, because we couldn't afford it. What I'm thinking is, "If you don't like irresponsible corporations and their executives being presented golden parachutes from the government, then why would you vote for a Republican?" This trickle-down, supply-side economics stuff isn't working - shit rolls downhill, not money.

Barack Obama is not a Marxist. He does not intend to socialize our industries, he does not propose to make government bigger, he wants it to work BETTER. He doesn't want to raise taxes, he wants to lower them (for the lower 95% of us anyway). He wants to stop out of control government spending, specifically on a "war" that we're fighting in the wrong place. What is it that people don't like about a health care system where insurance would no longer be denied to sick people (and resources not wasted on figuring out how to deny it to them), and subsidized for those who can't afford it? If people in those situations were able to keep the money that would otherwise have to spend on medical care on their own, wouldn't that would help our economy and society overall?

I'm so sick of the old rhetoric thrown about of the perceptions of either party - 'Democrats are communists, Republicans are fascists'. Dammit, I think the vast majority of us would be considered moderates and we could work together if we weren't so polarized by those on either extreme calling each other names. It's become impossible to rationally discuss issues, because everyone is so focused on making the other guy look bad. I suppose I'm guilty of that in the first paragraph, but I tried to do it more by stating facts, not so much rhetoric.

[smiley=thumbup.gif]

Quotedumas

You said dumb ass...

Anyone seen that hockey mom from Alaska lately?  Let's assume McCain wins.  Let's assume his health fails.  Will Ms. Palin be the first President in history to NEVER give a news conference?

I know the fall back argument is that she has just as much experience as Obama.  But does anyone truely believe that she has a grasp on any global issues?  She can give a nice prepared speech but fumbles with softballs from Katie?  Her international experience boils down to Russian planes flying over Alaska?  

Shit, I should be VP - I mean I've been to Disney like 15 times and it always seems like there are alot of folks from other places there.  I also used to help Haitian diswashers fill out their tax forms.

Quote
Shit, I should be VP - I mean I've been to Disney like 15 times and it always seems like there are alot of folks from other places there.  I also used to help Haitian diswashers fill out their tax forms.

score

raaaaazor sharp

(but do you hunt?)

Quote

Quote
Shit, I should be VP - I mean I've been to Disney like 15 times and it always seems like there are alot of folks from other places there.  I also used to help Haitian diswashers fill out their tax forms.

score

raaaaazor sharp

(but do you hunt?)

Only wolves.  From airplanes.  I find it to be more sporting.  Can I get an amen?

Instead of moose, Soup hunts beaver?

Quote

Quote

Quote
Shit, I should be VP - I mean I've been to Disney like 15 times and it always seems like there are alot of folks from other places there.  I also used to help Haitian diswashers fill out their tax forms.

score

raaaaazor sharp

(but do you hunt?)

Only wolves.  From airplanes.  I find it to be more sporting.  Can I get an amen?

(http://www.goatstar.org/WWJS.jpg)

QuoteInstead of moose, Soup hunts beaver?

I used to hunt beaver, but a park ranger moved in some time back and advised me that I may now only observe nature.

I used to have dreams of beaver hunting me...when I was younger.

QuoteI used to have dreams of beaver hunting me...when I was younger.

So did I.  Did your beaver look like this to ?
(http://www.repmanblog.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/15/bo_derek_gallery_main.jpg)

(http://www.repmanblog.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/15/bo_derek_gallery_main.jpg)

good Lord... my friend's dad took us to see 10 when we were like 14. Big huge screen, Bo Derek, dark theater; lots of shifting around in our seats  :-[

Ahhhhhhhhh, if only I knew then what I know now, I'd probably have 14 illegitimate kids!

you mean like an NBA player  :).    I think you were much better off hand unloading back then.  I bet you wish you new the old cut a hole in the bottom of the popcorn box trick.

QuoteI used to have dreams of beaver hunting me...when I was younger.

I still dream of beaver hunting me and I no longer "younger"!

I had a park ranger move in that went to the same school as yours apparently. Ranger Smith didn't like it when I would ask "Hey Hey Booboo, lets go get some of those picanic baskets."

Quote

Quote
I mean, Tracy basically called me a fear fueling hate monger for referring to Obama by his full name.

OK, give me 1 legitimate reason why some conservatives call Obama by his full name but they do not call anyone else by their full name?
I mean, in all seriousness, why focus on the name Hussein unless you're trying to evoke fear? What other reason is there?

And for the record, I don't let politics skew my voice. Many times I have defended Bush when people call him a racist; I've done it on this board. And I refer to Condoleeza Rice and how racists don't put black people in positions of power over whites; that's not racism.

I don't let someone's political views influence my opinion of what they are actually saying.

[size=18]OK, give me 1 legitimate reason why some conservatives call Obama by his full name but they do not call anyone else by their full name?
I mean, in all seriousness, why focus on the name Hussein unless you're trying to evoke fear? What other reason is there?[/size]

What'd you think of the debate last night, Tracy?

QuoteWhat'd you think of the debate last night, Tracy?

you should probably answer my question that I have asked you twice now before you turn to ask me a question; that's how it usually works.

Well, Tracy, I didn't think Obama looked very presidential... John McCain is supposed to be the temperamental one, but all night long he had Obama looking to his left with a smirk, interrupting without having anything to say, and just generally looking like an ass. CNN said Obama said "I agree with John" for every time McCain said "Senator Obama just doesn't understand."

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r_jTgGeVU4[/media]

Toddler-esque Obama jumping out with the "I have a bracelet, too!" but having to actually read the bracelet to see whose name was on it was cringe-inducing. It's the difference between a conviction and a prop.

I imagine the left will see McCain's handling of Obama as condescending, while the right will see it more like an elder lecturing a naive student. Either way, Obama was trying to keep up.

most of the posts in this thread have fail written all over them.
8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

Quote

QuoteWhat'd you think of the debate last night, Tracy?

you should probably answer my question that I have asked you twice now before you turn to ask me a question; that's how it usually works.

your not answering my question actually is answering my question.

ridiculous political stance

Actually Brad, I respectfully disagree with you. I think McCain came across as a grumpy old man. He was rather childish in is absolute refusal to look at Obama. Keep in mind that this was supposed to be McCain's strongest subject and I think it came out more of a tie which I view as a win for Obama. McCain needed to have a monster night and he just didn't. I thought McCain looked uncomfortable while Obama looked poised.

However, I thought his joke in reference to the DNA research on bears was pretty funny.

The debates are not going to sway my vote as it is firmly where it's at. Watching more for the comedy and to have drinking games with the wife.

I do find it funny, not in a ha ha way, that 4 years ago the entire campaign was built on Kerry being a flip flopper/waffler. However, McCain/Palin have flip flopped on many things and it doesn't seem to be a major issue like 4 years ago.

QuoteHowever, I thought his joke in reference to the DNA research on bears was pretty funny.

We definitely agree on that one.

We should be spending those millions on training bears to do cool stuff.

Quote

QuoteHowever, I thought his joke in reference to the DNA research on bears was pretty funny.

We definitely agree on that one.

We should be spending those millions on training bears to do cool stuff.

Bears on bikes still is funny. Even better, monkeys riding dogs.

Quotemost of the posts in this thread have fail written all over them.

(http://blogs.nitobi.com/alexei/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/shipment_of_fail.jpg)

I'm absolutely captivated and excited by Dr. Ron Ernest Paul.

There was a report on the news last night that someone defaced a huge Obama sign in Cookeville with the term "Sand Ni**er" (which is a direct result of people linking Obama's middle name to terrorism)and "KKK".

And people continue to throw it out there thinking it's all fun and games. Hey, he's black and he's Muslim! Disgraceful.

Tracy- that's just fucking ridiculous. What the hell is wrong with people.

i think mccain came across very snippy in the debate--put BO on the defensive--

my favorite exchange:

mccain: "i've got a button from ___and i've promised this soldier's mother that i wouldnt' let us lose the war or her son to die in vain"

BO: "i've got a button of my own---from ___and i promised his mom i wouldn't let another soldier's mom go through what she's going through"

god i'm so sick of both sides/don't think either side won--anxiously awaiting the VP debates. they will be a lot more interesting

in other news--the bill did not pass today and of course the dow plummets--i'm predicting something happens tomorrow or else not until next week. ...so bad---waiting for asian markets to callapse even further in the next couple days.  executive compensation will be the least of our worries--

I know Dudley Dooright, I've met Dudley Dooright, and you ma'm are no Dudley Dooright.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c[/media]

After three days of calling, I finally got through to my senator. He's already against this bailout, but it's important for all of us to call our so-called representatives and let them know how we feel.

Some of those folks in Washington need to be run out on a rail... It makes me sick seeing George Bush and Nancy Pelosi both screaming that it's absolutely imperative that we make this bailout happen OR ELSE THE WORLD ENDS TOMORROW. Excuse me? If the economy's livelyhood depends on a blank check written out of my pocket in the middle of the night without me having a word, I say let the damn thing crash - they can't guarantee this insane bailout is going to work, anyway. They don't want you to know what's in the package, they just want it signed off as law. Sounds familiar.

It tells you something when the Democrats, who could pass this by themselves, aren't able to pass it. There must be some fucked up shit in there. Enough to make people stop and think, "Wow, when they find out my name is on this, they'll never re-elect me."

Why is the media afraid to name names when it comes to taking responsibility? Probably because there's a lot of Liberals involved.

that works both ways...some of them wanted to vote for it but didn't because they they're up for re-election---pelosi was awful, congress is worthless--

wait, there is one who didn't vote---weller? who is that? which state? i need to find this out.

QuoteAfter three days of calling, I finally got through to my senator. He's already against this bailout, but it's important for all of us to call our so-called representatives and let them know how we feel.

Some of those folks in Washington need to be run out on a rail... It makes me sick seeing George Bush and Nancy Pelosi both screaming that it's absolutely imperative that we make this bailout happen OR ELSE THE WORLD ENDS TOMORROW. Excuse me? If the economy's livelyhood depends on a blank check written out of my pocket in the middle of the night without me having a word, I say let the damn thing crash - they can't guarantee this insane bailout is going to work, anyway. They don't want you to know what's in the package, they just want it signed off as law. Sounds familiar.

It tells you something when the Democrats, who could pass this by themselves, aren't able to pass it. There must be some fucked up shit in there. Enough to make people stop and think, "Wow, when they find out my name is on this, they'll never re-elect me."

Why is the media afraid to name names when it comes to taking responsibility? Probably because there's a lot of Liberals involved.

The Capitalist in us all wants to say "screw these guys" and let them fend for themselves. What makes the bill worth the trouble is that these banks that have failed are international. This is not only our economy in trouble, but also, ones across the globe. Believe me, I don't want to help out these MFers who have put themselves in this position, but allowing them to crumble will affect the nation even worse than helping them out. They are also supposed to be working out some type of revision that pays back all money profitted over 700 billion to the taxpayers (I'm not holding my breath). Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing them fall and let us have a good ole fashioned revolution! :D

QuoteThe Capitalist in us all wants to say "screw these guys" and let them fend for themselves. What makes the bill worth the trouble is that these banks that have failed are international. This is not only our economy in trouble, but also, ones across the globe. Believe me, I don't want to help out these MFers who have put themselves in this position, but allowing them to crumble will affect the nation even worse than helping them out. They are also supposed to be working out some type of revision that pays back all money profitted over 700 billion to the taxpayers (I'm not holding my breath). Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing them fall and let us have a good ole fashioned revolution! :D

Well, I understand that the original design of this bailout was to prevent an absolute, total collapse... but the original design, much like our Constitution, has been hijacked by the same ol' career politicians who always take an idea and turn it into a "package" with all sorts of extra language that doesn't pertain.

The left wanted 20% of the bailout profit tossed over to ACORN and other social programs in the original draft. They say this bailout is a rescue plan, to save our future, but then they pack it full of this kind of socialist bullshit? No wonder even Democrats won't pass it.

Nancy Pelosi should resign. She is the worst Speaker of all time.

QuoteIf the economy's livelyhood depends on a blank check written out of my pocket in the middle of the night without me having a word,  

Not your pocket - your grandkids pocket.  And please brother, easy with the "must be liberals involved" nonsense.  Since the time of our cherished founding fathers until 8 years ago we had accumulated a fair amount of debt.  When some version of this bailout is finally passed (and something will pass), captain conservative will have more than doubled this debt.  His friends have done o.k.

The conservative philosophy - small government, tight spending, is a farse at this point.  Have we found the WMD's yet?  Let's declare victory and move on.  The surge has worked!  Let's see; thousands of dead American teenagers, a region completly destabilized, our real enemies emboldened, and our economy in shambles.  Victory indeed!!!

When this bailout passes (and I agree that some version of it will pass), it will be passed by the moron Liberals and signed off by the moron president. So I guess it all evens out, right?

Small Government is nota farce, neither is free market. But neither of them are in practice, anymore, either. Washington, post 9/11, has been sort of like the Galactic Senate of the Star Wars prequels, where the politicians basically grant themselves whatever executive powers they need to do whatever they want.

There's gonna come a time when she's gonna have to go with whoever's gonna get her the highest....we gotta stay positive.

QuoteWashington, post 9/11, has been sort of like the Galactic Senate of the Star Wars prequels,

What...is Star Wars for realz?!!  :o

Quote

QuoteThe Capitalist in us all wants to say "screw these guys" and let them fend for themselves. What makes the bill worth the trouble is that these banks that have failed are international. This is not only our economy in trouble, but also, ones across the globe. Believe me, I don't want to help out these MFers who have put themselves in this position, but allowing them to crumble will affect the nation even worse than helping them out. They are also supposed to be working out some type of revision that pays back all money profitted over 700 billion to the taxpayers (I'm not holding my breath). Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing them fall and let us have a good ole fashioned revolution! :D

Well, I understand that the original design of this bailout was to prevent an absolute, total collapse... but the original design, much like our Constitution, has been hijacked by the same ol' career politicians who always take an idea and turn it into a "package" with all sorts of extra language that doesn't pertain.

The left wanted 20% of the bailout profit tossed over to ACORN and other social programs in the original draft. They say this bailout is a rescue plan, to save our future, but then they pack it full of this kind of socialist bullshit? No wonder even Democrats won't pass it.

Nancy Pelosi should resign. She is the worst Speaker of all time.

This is your issue?? you're joking right? every wall street job lost is connected to 6 other regional jobs, which are then connected to 10 other jobs--which trickles down into your town--this is not about wall street or partisan politics;


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/27/politics/politico/thecrypt/main4483168.shtml

In the end, how much of the bailout's potential profits are earmarked for ACORN? "None. Absolutely none. All funds would go to state and local governments," said Steven Adamske, spokesman for Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), the chairman of the Financial Services Committee and a lead negotiator.

The opposition has grown so intense that critics refer to the measure in arcane legislative lingo. Erick Erickson titled a Friday morning blog post at RedState: "Section 105(d) of the Bailout Must Go."

Here's the relevant language:

TRANSFER OF A PERCENTAGE OF PROFITS.

DEPOSITS. Not less than 20 percent of any profit realized on the sale of each troubled asset purchased under this Act shall be deposited as provided in paragraph (2).

USE OF DEPOSITS. Of the amount referred to in paragraph (1) 65 percent shall be deposited into the Housing Trust Fund established under section 1338 of the Federal Housing Enterprises Regulatory Reform Act of 1992 (12 U.S.C. 4568); and 35 percent shall be deposited into the Capital Magnet Fund established under section 1339 of that Act (12 U.S.C. 4569).

REMAINDER DEPOSITED IN THE TREASURY. All amounts remaining after payments under paragraph (1) shall be paid into the General Fund of the Treasury for reduction of the public debt.

And here's Frank's one-page summary of the Affordable Housing Trust Fund and to find the relevant bill go here and search for H.R. 2895.

State and local governments can then dole out the funds and could send money to ACORN if they so choose and if the organization's efforts meet the standards set out in the law. For their stand against the provision, Adamske tweaked House Republicans, who have long called for more state control of federal funds.

"Are they worried that the Governor of Alaska and the Mayor of Wasilla will give money to Acorn?" he asked.

Regardless, House Republicans are saying that unless the possibility of ACORN seeing any money from this bailout is eliminated, there's no deal. "Doling out favors to ACORN and other liberal special interest groups are a non-starter for House Republicans," said Behner spokesman Kevin Smith. "If Rep. Frank wants to keep ACORN in the bill he can secure the necessary Democratic votes for passage because he'll need every one of them."


What does this mean for us?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/edmundconway/3105965/Financial-crisis-Western-world-will-become-significantly-less-wealthy.html

It means millions more Americans, and hundreds of thousands more Britons, will lose their jobs; it means the recession will be deeper and more protracted than previously feared; it means borrowing costs will increase on both sides of the Atlantic. Companies will cut back on investment. Pension funds will be depleted.

The Western world, in short, will become significantly less wealthy.

There is still time for US policymakers to rescue the deal, but not much. Financial markets are no longer just chaotic, but are close to complete collapse. A number of banks, already on the edge, will be pushed that bit closer to the precipice as a result.

As the past few weeks have shown, companies can go bust very, very quickly. When they collapse they are very difficult, if not impossible, to put back together again.
The free market can be very creative but it can also be immensely destructive. This is one of those points where the scale of destruction is potentially so great that it could set the economy back years.

This is why so many people – and not just the politicians putting the deal together – are warning that if the deal fails entirely we could be facing a second Great Depression.

The big mistake policymakers made in the 1930s was to allow too many banks to fail. This caused such a financial earthquake that it led to a decade of hardship.

This lady uses Obama's full name too.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/v/BaxECcTjCuw&hl=en&fs=1[/media]

QuoteThis lady uses Obama's full name too.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/v/BaxECcTjCuw&hl=en&fs=1[/media]

I don't mean to be an ass, but isn't it illegal to operate an ATV without a helmet?

Nice Tracy.

That just makes me sad and mad. That lady is an amalgamation of the 3 women that sit next to me at work.

hahahahahahahahahahaha

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRY3njcGgWU[/media]

I've got lots of debating to watch tonight.  Our (Canada) English language leaders debate is on tonight - last night was the French language - and your VP debate starts immediately after.  Looks like I'll be setting Ace of Cakes to tape tonight.   8-)

QuoteI've got lots of debating to watch tonight.  Our (Canada) English language leaders debate is on tonight - last night was the French language - and your VP debate starts immediately after.  Looks like I'll be setting Ace of Cakes to tape tonight.   8-)

Um, the debates happen at the same time, at least they do "live". Maybe out west where you live the US debates are on a delay. I'm watching them both at the same time - the US for sheer entertainment value and the Canadian for the fact that I want our Conservative Prime Minister Harper to be exposed for the insular out-of-touch evil creep that he is.

Quote

QuoteI've got lots of debating to watch tonight.  Our (Canada) English language leaders debate is on tonight - last night was the French language - and your VP debate starts immediately after.  Looks like I'll be setting Ace of Cakes to tape tonight.   8-)

Um, the debates happen at the same time, at least they do "live". Maybe out west where you live the US debates are on a delay. I'm watching them both at the same time - the US for sheer entertainment value and the Canadian for the fact that I want our Conservative Prime Minister Harper to be exposed for the insular out-of-touch evil creep that he is.

Ah, I see "tape-delay" has foiled me once again.  For the best, I'm extremely curious about both.  I surely hope Harper is exposed tonight as well; it's revolting to see the amount of Conservative yard signs here.  

What did you think of last nights debate?  

Quote

Quote

QuoteI've got lots of debating to watch tonight.  Our (Canada) English language leaders debate is on tonight - last night was the French language - and your VP debate starts immediately after.  Looks like I'll be setting Ace of Cakes to tape tonight.   8-)

Um, the debates happen at the same time, at least they do "live". Maybe out west where you live the US debates are on a delay. I'm watching them both at the same time - the US for sheer entertainment value and the Canadian for the fact that I want our Conservative Prime Minister Harper to be exposed for the insular out-of-touch evil creep that he is.

Ah, I see "tape-delay" has foiled me once again.  For the best, I'm extremely curious about both.  I surely hope Harper is exposed tonight as well; it's revolting to see the amount of Conservative yard signs here.  

What did you think of last nights debate?  

I didn't see it. Back later. The debates are on.

She also said she made her disagreement known to top campaign officials:
    "I fired a quick e-mail and said, 'oh, come on! Do we have to call it there?' she said. " Todd and I would [be] happy to get to Michigan and walk through those plants [with] car manufacturers.
    "We'd be so happy to get to speak with the people there in Michigan, who are hurting because the economy is hurting," she added. "Whatever we can do and whatever Todd and I can do in realizing what their challenges in that state are, as we can relate to them and connect with them and promise them that we won't let them down in the administration."

what planet is this?

Quotehahahahahahahahahahaha

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRY3njcGgWU[/media]

Do you realize how many lies they flashed in that segment?  NOT ONE person has ever been "charged for a rape kit" in Wasilla--I challenge you to find one name (plus it doesn't hurt that thaere really aren't a whole lot of rapes there to begin with).  The "ban library books" line is another fairy tale left wing nuts want everyone to swallow.  I would continue but my writers cramp is returning.  

No- she did not ban books but she did start discussions regarding removing "ojectionable" books.

There are plenty of lies told on either side.  Let's not even pretend it's just the left.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp

QuoteNOT ONE person has ever been "charged for a rape kit" in Wasilla--I challenge you to find one name (plus it doesn't hurt that thaere really aren't a whole lot of rapes there to begin with).

also this:  http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-10-rape-exams_N.htm

It's (not) funny...  this article says Alaska has the highest rate of rapes in the country.

Quote

Quotehahahahahahahahahahaha

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRY3njcGgWU[/media]

Do you realize how many lies they flashed in that segment?  NOT ONE person has ever been "charged for a rape kit" in Wasilla--I challenge you to find one name (plus it doesn't hurt that thaere really aren't a whole lot of rapes there to begin with).  The "ban library books" line is another fairy tale left wing nuts want everyone to swallow.  I would continue but my writers cramp is returning.  

Hmmm. People were charged for rape kits. I live in a town about the same size as Wasilla, and if the Mayor has no clue what a small town sherrif is doing, thats pretty pathetic. The mayor knows what is going on in a town that small.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_sarah_palin_make_rape_victims_pay.html

Also, Alaska has THE HIGHEST rates of rape. Regardless if there were a lot that occured in Wasilla or not, that's pretty fucking shady.

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/09/25/old-media-pushes-false-rape-kit-charge-against-gov-palin/

Back at ya.  Even if it's true that the POLICE CHIEF (NOT Sarah Palin, nor via Sarah Palin's approval) did charge a rape victim's INSURANCE, its a far cry from the fund raising violations occuring right now in Obama's camp--he has foreigners pumping money into his campaign, in amounts close to but below the level that triggers detail reporting about the contributor, and under various names--meaning they are making multiple donations.  Check it out--he's raised ~$500 Million already and refuses to reveal information about the donations.  Not to mention the dirt all dems want kept under the rug--his relationship with Tony Rezko and Bill Ayers.  
Mudslinging may not be a one sided affair but the leftys are the nastiest and lowest--they just make shit up and see if it sticks.

Quote
Mudslinging may not be a one sided affair but the leftys are the nastiest and lowest--they just make shit up and see if it sticks.

Something like there were WMD's in Iraq and they had something to do with 9/11. Yeah, us leftys just make shit up to see if it sticks all the time.

Oh and Obama was 8 when Ayers did anything subversive or terroristic. Because he's on the same board and lives in the same neighborhood as someone doesn't constitute a relationship.

At least Obama wasn't caught on video getting a blessing to ward off witchcraft as he prepared to run for higher office.

QuoteMudslinging may not be a one sided affair but the leftys are the nastiest and lowest--they just make shit up and see if it sticks.

jesus CHRIST it blows my mind that people believe this.  

QuoteAt least Obama wasn't caught on video getting a blessing to ward off witchcraft as he prepared to run for higher office.

No, instead Obama attended a radical, racist church for about twenty years, where the pastor screams "God Damn America!" and insinuates that the white folks running the American government invented AIDS and invited the 9/11 attacks with their Zionist views.

QuoteOh and Obama was 8 when Ayers did anything subversive or terroristic. Because he's on the same board and lives in the same neighborhood as someone doesn't constitute a relationship.

"I don't regret setting bombs... I feel we didn't do enough." - Bill Ayers, 2001

You don't think serving on the same board with someone for five years, sometimes being a guest in their home, constitutes some sort of relationship? I'm not saying they're best friends or anything, but it'll be hard to pretend that 1) Ayers is reformed and 2) Obama never had a relationship with him.

Quote

QuoteMudslinging may not be a one sided affair but the leftys are the nastiest and lowest--they just make shit up and see if it sticks.

jesus CHRIST it blows my mind that people believe this.  

Its narrow-minded thinking if you ask me, shocking that it takes place here.

also this:

(http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/2008/10/custom_1223153760240_Picture_5.png)

Yes...  Obama is so very elitist (although I would agree that elitist is a state of mind, not a state of things).

John McCain has a vintage jeep? That's awesome.

sometimes i wonder why being elitest is so bad---i mean we had GW (a good ol' boy) in there for 8 years and look what happened?  just sayin...nothing wrong w/obama thinking he's elite or mccain being rich..look at bloomberg ...

Elitism--a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern

Anderson Cooper was pleased that we finally got to see "the physicality of the McCain and Obama."  Mmmmmm, yummy.

Here's a VERY good breakdown of each candidate's plans for big picture items like economy, trade, war, health care....buncha stuff, really balanced too. Links to all different topics are on the right side of the page:

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12321683

This issue of The Economist is on newsstands now, and I highly recommend it for anyone who plans on voting, whether or not they're unsure of who they like.

bbill-i've had a subscription for many years. it's my bible ;-)! i gotta have my fill of charlamagne every week.

i'm so over this election---i loved that they both wanted to call putin evil but couldn't, though--zzzzzz for the debate----if you don't know what each candidate's stances are by now, there's a problem there...

there's a tough mccain article in rolling stone this week, too---going over keating 5 scandal, etc

Quotei loved that they both wanted to call putin evil but couldn't, though

I know, and Brokaw asked specifically for 'yes' or 'no' answers!  ;D

Quote

Quotei loved that they both wanted to call putin evil but couldn't, though

I know, and Brokaw asked specifically for 'yes' or 'no' answers!  ;D

it's amazing how they can be giving the EXACT same answer but w/completely different words ---it's such an art form

QuoteNo, instead Obama attended a radical, racist church for about twenty years, where the pastor screams "God Damn America!" and insinuates that the white folks running the American government invented AIDS and invited the 9/11 attacks with their Zionist views.

"I don't regret setting bombs... I feel we didn't do enough." - Bill Ayers, 2001

You don't think serving on the same board with someone for five years, sometimes being a guest in their home, constitutes some sort of relationship? I'm not saying they're best friends or anything, but it'll be hard to pretend that 1) Ayers is reformed and 2) Obama never had a relationship with him.

Is this where, to show that you're looking at both candidates histories through the same lens, you bring up McCain's ties to the U.S. Council for World Freedom which was part of an international organization linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America.

Or there's the fun with the Keating-5 scandal.

Or since church matters, John Hagee, the pastor whose endorsement McCain solicited and rejected after it turned out to be a politically stupid thing for him to do...

Gosh, golly, heck, ya know, Joe 6-pack, looks like there's plenty of skeletons in everyone's closet.  

Quote

QuoteNo, instead Obama attended a radical, racist church for about twenty years, where the pastor screams "God Damn America!" and insinuates that the white folks running the American government invented AIDS and invited the 9/11 attacks with their Zionist views.

"I don't regret setting bombs... I feel we didn't do enough." - Bill Ayers, 2001

You don't think serving on the same board with someone for five years, sometimes being a guest in their home, constitutes some sort of relationship? I'm not saying they're best friends or anything, but it'll be hard to pretend that 1) Ayers is reformed and 2) Obama never had a relationship with him.

Is this where, to show that you're looking at both candidates histories through the same lens, you bring up McCain's ties to the U.S. Council for World Freedom which was part of an international organization linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America.

Or there's the fun with the Keating-5 scandal.

Or since church matters, John Hagee, the pastor whose endorsement McCain solicited and rejected after it turned out to be a politically stupid thing for him to do...

Gosh, golly, heck, ya know, Joe 6-pack, looks like there's plenty of skeletons in everyone's closet.  

i agree--well mccain's had more time to gather them, too---don't forget about his crippled ex wife he cheated on and was still living w/when he met his new pretty blonde billionaire wife, 20 years younger than him...he's no angel--keating 5 left a lot of innocent people destitute...i like mccain but c'mon...we shouldn't even go there.

interesting (or not)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E[/media]

Quoteinteresting (or not)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E[/media]

This is interesting to me. I come from a very liberal part of the country and don't often see this perspective. I completely understand and respect differing opinions in regards to policy and experience. I am surprised however that people really think Obama is a terrorist. I know that is the sound bite going around, but do they really think the department of Homeland Security would allow a terrorist to be a United States Senator? Goodness gracious, Homeland Security certainly would do such a poor job as to actually allow this "terrorist" to run for the highest office of the land would they?

most people don't really believe that but you know that's part of the political game ---pick apart everything about your opponent and his/her fam--any scandal or association w/anything or anyone controversial...this isn't shocking to me. the longer he's in politics, the longer he'll rack up skeletons--that's the biz---both sides do this

Quotemost people don't really believe that but you know that's part of the political game ---pick apart everything about your opponent and his/her fam--any scandal or association w/anything or anyone controversial...this isn't shocking to me. the longer he's in politics, the longer he'll rack up skeletons--that's the biz---both sides do this

Being called a terrorist b/c of your middle name is racking up skeletons? I'm pretty sure that's not how that works.

bottom line is the reps are digging deep into their arsenal of fear and hate b/c Obama is leading. And when people evoke Obama's middle name, they are doing nothing more than trying to scare the shit out of you into voting for McCain. Unless there is another reason, but so far no one has showed me differently.

One of the CNN folks had a great point that until Obama wins the election, he will not rest assured that race did not play a factor in the election; he feels many Americans are pulling for Obama now, but come election day they won't be able to vote for a black man or a man with a middle name like Hussein.

food for thought.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF8wtHWrCuU&feature=related[/media]

Quote
ho hum read a little more before thowing "scandals" at people:

Lincoln Savings and Loan collapsed in 1989, at a cost of $2 billion to the federal government. Some 23,000 Lincoln bondholders were defrauded and many elderly investors lost their life savings. The substantial political contributions that Keating had made to each of the senators, totalling $1.3 million, attracted considerable public and media attention. After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings, with Cranston receiving a formal reprimand. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

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Quote
ho hum read a little more before thowing "scandals" at people:

Lincoln Savings and Loan collapsed in 1989, at a cost of $2 billion to the federal government. Some 23,000 Lincoln bondholders were defrauded and many elderly investors lost their life savings. The substantial political contributions that Keating had made to each of the senators, totalling $1.3 million, attracted considerable public and media attention. After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings, with Cranston receiving a formal reprimand. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

So wait?  Barack can't go to church with some guy you don't like and all the sudden he's a terrorist, but McCain is intimately involved in a government scandal and you scuff it off as a ho hum argument.  What was that you say about throwing attacks at a wall and seeing what stuck? You can at least conceit, I hope, that John McCain was an associate of Charles Keating. So what's the difference Mr. Ho Hum?

MMJfanatic, I admire your balls but not your brain.  I usually don't enter into debates like this because arguing with someone without the capacity for rationale thought is like trying to teach a pig to take a bath.  It's not going to happen and both parties will end up frustrated.

Please keep your misguided, ignorant assertions, propaganda, and talking points to yourself and I keep my elitist views myself.  

Quote

Quote
ho hum read a little more before thowing "scandals" at people:

Lincoln Savings and Loan collapsed in 1989, at a cost of $2 billion to the federal government. Some 23,000 Lincoln bondholders were defrauded and many elderly investors lost their life savings. The substantial political contributions that Keating had made to each of the senators, totalling $1.3 million, attracted considerable public and media attention. After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings, with Cranston receiving a formal reprimand. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

MMJ-i normally agree w/your posts but this was a BIG deal and a huge blunder for mccain--it's sort of glossed over now but that was some shady sh*t that hurt a lot of people and i think he learned from it---he just got a slap on the wrist---surprised? the astronaut and the war veteran lol...luckily i think mccain learned from that---8 years ago he was what this country needed

I'm getting tired of all the negativity on both sides.  I think it adversely effects Mccain more than Obama.  I'm ready for the meat and potatos of how things are gonna change after November. If Mccain keeps up on the negative path he will hand the election to Obama with  a 60% majority and the death of the republican party.
Karl Rove can lick my dingle berries. This election turned to shit once he jumped into the ring.  

Quote8 years ago he was what this country needed

I would have voted for him in 2000 instead of Nader (I couldn't vote for Bush or Gore).

I think if McCain loses he will really be depressed about his campaign tactics these last couple of weeks (if he sticks with the smear). I thought he was above that, and he said he wasn't going to go there. And doubely-especially after what Bush did to him in South Carolina in 2000, Bush supporters saying McCain abandoned veterans, saying his adopted black child came from an extra-marital affair, saying he was a homosexual and mentally unstable.  I think McCain will lose sleep over his new plan of smear b/c I think deep inside he's a good man.

Quote

Quote8 years ago he was what this country needed

I would have voted for him in 2000 instead of Nader (I couldn't vote for Bush or Gore).

I think if McCain loses he will really be depressed about his campaign tactics these last couple of weeks (if he sticks with the smear). I thought he was above that, and he said he wasn't going to go there. And doubely-especially after what Bush did to him in South Carolina in 2000, Bush supporters saying McCain abandoned veterans, saying his adopted black child came from an extra-marital affair, saying he was a homosexual and mentally unstable.  I think McCain will lose sleep over his new plan of smear b/c I think deep inside he's a good man.

tracy-i completely agree w/you (i'm a little shocked at that! lol) i voted for nader in 2000 as well---you are right, mccain's campaign has surprised me and he's definitely going to regret the smear--i thought he was above that, too

tater--did you see dennis miller on leno or letterman the other night? he basically said the same thing--he's supporting mccain but he said that he could get behind either candidate--we just need this election to be over with --this 8 years of hating the administration is really old--we're in a depression now and while we don't need all the social programs FDR offered-we need someone to unify people

Quote

Quote

Quote8 years ago he was what this country needed

I would have voted for him in 2000 instead of Nader (I couldn't vote for Bush or Gore).

I think if McCain loses he will really be depressed about his campaign tactics these last couple of weeks (if he sticks with the smear). I thought he was above that, and he said he wasn't going to go there. And doubely-especially after what Bush did to him in South Carolina in 2000, Bush supporters saying McCain abandoned veterans, saying his adopted black child came from an extra-marital affair, saying he was a homosexual and mentally unstable.  I think McCain will lose sleep over his new plan of smear b/c I think deep inside he's a good man.

tracy-i completely agree w/you (i'm a little shocked at that! lol) i voted for nader in 2000 as well---you are right, mccain's campaign has surprised me and he's definitely going to regret the smear--i thought he was above that, too

tater--did you see dennis miller on leno or letterman the other night? he basically said the same thing--he's supporting mccain but he said that he could get behind either candidate--we just need this election to be over with --this 8 years of hating the administration is really old--we're in a depression now and while we don't need all the social programs FDR offered-we need someone to unify people

I bet Dennis Miller does wish the Bush Admin was over since he's spent the last eight years supporting every move they made.  He's at least smart enough to realize it's time to move on.  I don't understand people who actually want more of the same.  They must not watch the news.

Even my mother and father-in-law have realized that Bush has really screwed the pooch and they are staunch Republicans and he has worked for Exxon Mobile since he was 20. They didn't support McCain until Palin joined on because I guess McCain wasn't evil enough for them.

And, btw, I used to really like McCain and would've voted for him in 2000 but he has since sold his soul to special interests from the right. Perhaps, it's all just lip service to get elected but he has ruined his reputation in my opinion.

To me, Obama is great. I finally have a candidate that I can vote for because I want that person to win and do great things. To me it is not a choice of the lesser of 2 evils like the last 2 elections. I really didn't support Gore or Kerry more then I could not stand Bush/Cheney. I guess many Republicans can feel that way this year since McCain probably isn't the strongest candidate they could have put up at least from a Republican platform?

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Quote

First--on the subject of "reverend" Wright:  this man is not worthy of an altar.  He is far removed from Jesus' teachings.  And lets not forget the balck liberation theology pact everyone, including Obama, signed when they join which states that all black prisoners, regardles of crime, should be immediately released from jail, white people are the enemy, etc.

Second with regard to terroist ties--why is Obama so unwilling to lay out any clarity around his time spent with Bill Ayers who bombed his own country, similar to one Mr Tim McVeigh, and has never repented (or been jailed). And no it doesn't make a difference that Obama wa only "8 when the rascally behavior occurred".

Third--Tony Rezko anyone wanna touch that one?

Lastly:  THERE WERE [size=24]4 DEMOCRATS[/size] WHO WERE INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN THE KEATING 5.  Guess who backed away from Charles Keating before the collapse of Lincoln S&L?  THATS RIGHT KIDDEES JOHN MCCAIN!

Oh yea and thanks for the ad hominem attack on my intelligence--it sustains the portrayal of liberals as they are:  vicious when presented with facts they can't argue logically.  Maybe you want to call me a racist now or just post that idiot Sarah video again ::)

Quote I'm ready for the meat and potatos of how things are gonna change after November.

Amen to that--wouldn't it be nice for politicians to be transparent for a change instead of dissembling?

Quote

Quote

Quote

First--on the subject of "reverend" Wright:  this man is not worthy of an altar.  He is far removed from Jesus' teachings.  And lets not forget the balck liberation theology pact everyone, including Obama, signed when they join which states that all black prisoners, regardles of crime, should be immediately released from jail, white people are the enemy, etc.

Second with regard to terroist ties--why is Obama so unwilling to lay out any clarity around his time spent with Bill Ayers who bombed his own country, similar to one Mr Tim McVeigh, and has never repented (or been jailed). And no it doesn't make a difference that Obama wa only "8 when the rascally behavior occurred".

Third--Tony Rezko anyone wanna touch that one?

Lastly:  THERE WERE [size=24]4 DEMOCRATS[/size] WHO WERE INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN THE KEATING 5.  Guess who backed away from Charles Keating before the collapse of Lincoln S&L?  THATS RIGHT KIDDEES JOHN MCCAIN!

Oh yea and thanks for the ad hominem attack on my intelligence--it sustains the portrayal of liberals as they are:  vicious when presented with facts they can't argue logically.  Maybe you want to call me a racist now or just post that idiot Sarah video again ::)

um, yeah.  you're missing the point but I won't continue to attack your intelligence.  You're showing everyone just how intelligent you are with every post you make.  I will say this though, I don't care if all the other people were democrats, independents, or communists. They are criminals and I'm not going to defend what they did because of what party they associate with. Those 4 Democrats aren't running for president this year.  Your boy, McCain is.  But I guess that it's okay for him to make be involved in one of the worst government scandals in the past couple generations and was accused of "poor judgment" according to the article YOU posted.

That's the difference between you and I. I listen to the facts and make a reasoned decision.  In your mind, logic means democrat= bad, republican=good.  That's not logic, that's blind faith, which is directly opposed to reason, the foundation of logic.

if the shoe fits, wear it. If not, then don't worry about it.

stand by MMJ fanatic, mcCain will be telling you what to think next very shortly...

(and here's that video again, like you asked)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E[/media]

hate Obama or love him, one thing, he's got a lot of courage to run for the president in this country. A black man with a name like that? Major league courage. I admire that.


[size=14]NY election mix-up: 'Osama' on the ballot [/size]

TROY, N.Y. - Who is running for president? In an upstate New York county, hundreds of voters have been sent absentee ballots in which they could vote for "Barack Osama."

The absentee ballots sent to voters in Rensselaer County identified the two presidential candidates as "Barack Osama" and "John McCain." In the United States, the best-known individual named Osama is Osama bin Laden, leader of the al Qaida terrorist group behind the 2001 attacks that destroyed the World Trade Center in New York City.

The typographical terror error was first reported by the Times Union of Albany.

The elections office faxed a statement in which the two commissioners, Democrat Edward McDonough and Republican Larry Bugbee, said they regret the error but never acknowledge what the error was.

"It's human error, it's very unfortunate, it's an embarrassment to our office, obviously," McDonough said in a later phone interview. "We wish we could turn back the clock, but we can't."

When they discovered the mistake, officials shredded the remaining "Osama" ballots and mailed correct versions to the roughly 300 people who had already received them. McDonough said the "Osama" mistake was made in only one of the 13 ballot versions mailed throughout the county, located east of the state capital of Albany.

Voters who received both versions will be allowed to send in either one and have it counted, McDonough said.

Obama spokesman Blake Zeff said the campaign is "glad officials are working to correct this error and we assume it won't happen again."

Barack Hussein Obama: Islamic Fundamentalist, Jihadist

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9O29bt9meA&feature=related[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT9nYjqTL10[/media]

Fear is your only God

Terror's tha product ya push

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkJzXLL4890[/media]

It turns out Palin DOES have executive experience. ho hum

http://www.adn.com/palin/story/552393.html?newsflash

Obama's Socialist Agenda -- Is Anyone Listening?


Outside of stump speeches, carefully scripted responses to reporters, and the endless recitation of talking points, there are a few moments when a politician speaks from the heart. It is in these moments when true motivations and core beliefs are often revealed.

Such a moment occurred this past weekend, when Barack Obama unveiled his socialist leanings and gave a clue to the American people about what Obama is all about. But, are the American people listening? Have they become so duped by the rhetoric of "hope" and "change" that they don't see the train wreck that's about to happen? Our freedoms are already being taken away as government continues to grow. If Obama gets elected, the subtleties will be thrown out the window as blatant socialism will rule the day. Just read Obama's response to a plumber's question in Ohio...


As reported by Fox News, during a campaign event in Ohio, Obama was peppered with questions from a local plumber who asked, "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?" The plumber was complaining (as I often do) that he is "being taxed more and more for fulfilling the American dream."

Obama's response? He gave the plumber a classic dose of socialism:

"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too," Obama responded. "My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

Spread the wealth around? This is America, isn't it? Redistributing the "wealth" is a classic tenant of Marxist philosophy. Communist China, the former Soviet Union, Cuba, and so on.... they all believe in government ownership of basically everything. Hard work, initiative, expertise... none of that is rewarded. Instead, the efforts of the talented and the hard-working are taken from them and given to those who don't work as hard. The result is a decrease in productivity, not to mention the self-fulfillment that comes from being rewarded for a job well done. And this is exactly what Barack Obama wants to do!

John McCain needs to get the message out on EXACTLY how he and Barack Obama are different. Yes, there should be tax cuts, and they should be for all Americans. Everytime Obama speaks about tax cuts, he only talks about cutting taxes for a particular group or segment of society. It is social engineering at its worst. Obama and the "govermennt" will decide how to redistribute the wealth of this country. McCain needs to hammer this!!!

My question to Obama is this... How do you make the economy good "for folks at the bottom up" without injecting more government into the picture or letting capitalism work?

Does Obama really understand the essence of America? It is strong because of the American spirit of invention and the bravery to undertake new endeavors. Those at the economic bottom DO NOT create jobs. Those at the economic bottom get hired for jobs. When the economy is robust, more jobs are created, thus more people get hired. There's not a business existing in America today that doesn't want to "do more business." In order to grow, more workers must be hired, and more capital purchased... both of which benefit the economy. Doesn't Obama understand this???

Let's just do a little simple math to see how taxes really work. Let's say there is a person making $50,000/year and paying 15% in federal income tax. Thus, the person's yearly tax burden is $7,500. If someone making $1,000,000/year paid at the same tax rate, they would pay $150,000 in taxes. So, the person making $50,000 pays $7,500, and the person making a million pays $150,000. Those who make more money, pay more in taxes. It's only logical.

However, that is not how a socialist thinks. Rather than each person truly paying "their fair share," the socialist says that the "rich" person should not only pay more because he or she makes more, but they should also pay a higher percentage. So, the person making $1,000,000/year instead pays 35% in taxes for a tax bill of $350,000. That's an extra $200,000 that the government takes out of circulation to pay for their social engineering.

My contention is this, there is basically nothing that the individual with an extra $200k as his/her disposal could do that is "bad" for the economy. The person could save it, thus giving banks more leverage to do business. The person could invest in, thus helping new or established companies grow. The person could donate some to charity, thus help organizations at the grassroots level do things more efficiently than the federal government could ever hope to. Or, God forbid, the person could simply go out and buy stuff. Two hundred thousand dollars of stuff is a lot of stuff! Imagine all that cash injected into society. Talk about a stimulus package. More goods being purchased, whether it is cars, clothes, furniture, food, or whatever, means that more jobs will be needed to produce those goods. It's as simple as that.

The problem is that Obama uses the politics of "trickle down economics" to pit one socio-economic group against another. It is typical class warfare, and it is un-American. Someone (McCain) needs to meet this head on and use some "straight talk." There is no "trickle down" theory. The more money that is in the hands of those who make the money, and outside the clutches of government, benefits the entire society instantly. There is nothing to trickle down. When all Americans are treated fairly, we all benefit. That is the American way!

Investor's Business Daily describes Obama as "the most anti-capitalist politician ever nominated by a major party." In their editorial, IBD describes the Obama/liberal agenda as follows:

It starts with a tax system right out of Marx: A massive redistribution of income -- from each according to his ability, to each according to his need -- all in the name of "neighborliness," "patriotism," "fairness" and "justice."

It continues with a call for a new world order that turns its back on free trade, has no problem with government controlling the means of production, imposes global taxes to support continents where our interests are negligible, signs on to climate treaties that will sap billions more in U.S. productivity and wealth, and institutes an authoritarian health care system that will strip Americans' freedoms and run up costs.

All the while, it ensures that nothing -- absolutely nothing -- will be done to secure a sufficient, terror-proof supply of our economic lifeblood -- oil -- a resource we'll need much more of in the years ahead.

McCain needs to board the Straight Talk Express and let the American people know what Obama is all about, and how McCain is different. Make no mistake, Sen. McCain, an Obama administration IS scary. You should be scared too. You should also hit Obama hard every single time he engages is socialist rhetoric.

All people are capable of abusing the system, and as we've seen lately, both Republicans and Democrats are capable of greed and corruption. But it is not the American way to punish initiative and ingenuity. It is not "patriotic" to pay more taxes. All Americans should pay less taxes! In tough economic times, the last thing you want to do is hurt business producers. Who is going to create the jobs? The government?

MMJ-good points but nothing new that a tax and spend liberal wants to take money from the people in the top brackets---is it? yes, i agree along w/that goes a lot of infusion into the economy---this is an age old argument...here are bad and good points to both candidates tax plans; offering tax cuts is misleading, too--where is this money going to come from?

what i am having trouble wrapping my head around---is how obama will pay for his health care idea and how it will work--they've tried that in massachusetts (i think?) and no one knows if it's working in that state, let alone the whole country----on the flip side, mccain's plan does little to expand coverage for those people who don't have it (that you and i are already paying for) and they are the problem. i sometimes wish they would just privatize all health care...(sigh)

inevitably the middle class pay for everything-

I know pitiably little about how well our (MA) health coverage system is working out (mainly because I am fully employed and get coverage through work) but I am not hearing any local horror stories either so I'm guessing things are OK.  This plan is a far cry from the traditional view of "Universal Health Care" though because everyone is required to pay in on a sliding scale based on income and if you don't get coverage they penalize you on your taxes.  I wonder how they will enforce this if the bill to abolish the MA income tax is passed by the voters in November...

Best idea ever. Let's reduce the upper class to a new "middle class" with the recently "enriched" lower class, and then let the government and our fearless leader "stabilize" and operate every industry. Progress! Nationalize everything, and bail outs for everyone!

I voted this morning in the Canadian election. I wish I could vote in your election. Both choices are easy ones for me.

I'm gonna vote thursday.  And the good thing is,  I was registered by Acorn and I get to vote 5 times , 3 times in Illinois and twice in Wisconsin  ;).   They even gave me a list of 5 differant polling places to go to.   Can't wait to show my patriotism X 5.  
I will be the one wearing a pin that says " I heart Muslims " and Socialism Rules.   ;)

QuoteI'm gonna vote thursday.  And the good thing is,  I was registered by Acorn and I get to vote 5 times , 3 times in Illinois and twice in Wisconsin  ;).   They even gave me a list of 5 differant polling places to go to.   Can't wait to show my patriotism X 5.  
I will be the one wearing a pin that says " I heart Muslims " and Socialism Rules.   ;)

maybe i'll try to re-register w/ACORN, too---lol

QuoteBest idea ever. Let's reduce the upper class to a new "middle class" with the recently "enriched" lower class, and then let the government and our fearless leader "stabilize" and operate every industry. Progress! Nationalize everything, and bail outs for everyone!

hey drama queen! that's what tax shelters are for!! ;D

I wonder why Mccain is holding back.  Maybe he should tell the CIA what to do. He is still a  ranking member in congress right ?
Or is he just a delusional old Gasbag that likes the sound of his own voice  " my friends ".   ?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnMSaxLzD1o[/media]

:-/

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QhJJBfwJME[/media]

McCain snatched that mic like LL Cool J.

Quote:-/

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QhJJBfwJME[/media]

*Sighs* :-[ I'll be embarrassed for her since she sees no reason to be.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCipmnYCKB0[/media]

Howard Stern Show

Sal travels to Harlem and asks people why they support Obama.

Joe Six-Pack?  Joe the Plummer?  Embarrassing.

I find their difference of opinion of abortion absolutely fascinating.  

QuoteJoe Six-Pack?  Joe the Plummer?  Embarrassing.

I only hear Tracy the My Morning Jacket fan

Nader!  Nader!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5ZRRimf3Ps&eurl=http://www.votenader.org/index.html [/media]

QuoteNader!  Nader!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5ZRRimf3Ps&eurl=http://www.votenader.org/index.html [/media]

I watched that movie last week (An Unreasonable Man), pretty amazing.

Nader makes more sense (and always has) than the dems and reps combined, but, his morals will not allow him to be a corporate whore, therefore, his odds of winning the presidency are slim.

I will probably vote for Ralph again this year.

QuoteAnd the good thing is,  I was registered by Acorn and I get to vote 5 times , 3 times in Illinois and twice in Wisconsin  ;).   They even gave me a list of 5 differant polling places to go to.   Can't wait to show my patriotism X 5.  

That's right everybody let's act like smart asses and have a big old "diminish the criminal act by scoffing at it" laugh.  Do any of you relaize what all these bogus registrations do on voting day?  They cause huge amounts of confusion for the poll workers who don't know what to do with the names when the supposed registered voters don't show up.  The next thing you know, the activists and lawyers form Acorn and similar BS organizations show up screaming "DISENFRANCHISED!  THAT PERSON REGISTERED AS A DEMOCRAT SO YOU SHOULD REGISTER THEIR VOTE AS SUCH!"
I find it hilarious (not) that these same people were hollering voter fraud in 2000 and 2004 yet not a single shred of evidence was ever produced and no indictments were handed out to anybody in those elections and this year the same people whoe were hollering now get caught redhanded and nobody gives 2 shits.

Is this America or Venezuela/Mexico/Korea...????????????????????????????????

Quote
That's right everybody let's act like smart asses and have a big old "diminish the criminal act by scoffing at it" laugh.  Do any of you relaize what all these bogus registrations do on voting day?  They cause huge amounts of confusion for the poll workers who don't know what to do with the names when the supposed registered voters don't show up.  The next thing you know, the activists and lawyers form Acorn and similar BS organizations show up screaming "DISENFRANCHISED!  THAT PERSON REGISTERED AS A DEMOCRAT SO YOU SHOULD REGISTER THEIR VOTE AS SUCH!"
I find it hilarious (not) that these same people were hollering voter fraud in 2000 and 2004 yet not a single shred of evidence was ever produced and no indictments were handed out to anybody in those elections and this year the same people whoe were hollering now get caught redhanded and nobody gives 2 shits.

Is this America or Venezuela/Mexico/Korea...????????????????????????????????

It's America.

(and you misspelled a couple of words in your post)

Quote

QuoteAnd the good thing is,  I was registered by Acorn and I get to vote 5 times , 3 times in Illinois and twice in Wisconsin  ;).   They even gave me a list of 5 differant polling places to go to.   Can't wait to show my patriotism X 5.  

That's right everybody let's act like smart asses and have a big old "diminish the criminal act by scoffing at it" laugh.  Do any of you relaize what all these bogus registrations do on voting day?  They cause huge amounts of confusion for the poll workers who don't know what to do with the names when the supposed registered voters don't show up.  The next thing you know, the activists and lawyers form Acorn and similar BS organizations show up screaming "DISENFRANCHISED!  THAT PERSON REGISTERED AS A DEMOCRAT SO YOU SHOULD REGISTER THEIR VOTE AS SUCH!"
I find it hilarious (not) that these same people were hollering voter fraud in 2000 and 2004 yet not a single shred of evidence was ever produced and no indictments were handed out to anybody in those elections and this year the same people whoe were hollering now get caught redhanded and nobody gives 2 shits.

Is this America or Venezuela/Mexico/Korea...????????????????????????????????

" They cause huge amounts of confusion for the poll workers who don't know what to do with the names when the supposed registered voters don't show up. "

I know usually in my case, when I don't vote it doesn't get registered.
So  please  explain the confusion. When people SHOW UP,  there name gets matched to the voter registry and then they proceed to vote.
So when Mickey Mouse and Tony Romo show up to vote in Ohio you should be outraged. When that happens I'm sure Fox news will be there with Joe the Plumber to kick there asses.

I did come off as a smarmy smart ass because this is all an overblown  joke.  Both sides have made this a political attack issue based on class warfare.
I am only voting one time. And that will be tonite.
If you don't vote you can't bitch, right.  I smell a 60% majority. and you can blame the current administration for that. Mccain was given many chances to show how his Administration would be differant than Bush's and he failed miserably in all attempts.

Quote

QuoteAnd the good thing is,  I was registered by Acorn and I get to vote 5 times , 3 times in Illinois and twice in Wisconsin  ;).   They even gave me a list of 5 differant polling places to go to.   Can't wait to show my patriotism X 5.  

That's right everybody let's act like smart asses and have a big old "diminish the criminal act by scoffing at it" laugh.  Do any of you relaize what all these bogus registrations do on voting day?  They cause huge amounts of confusion for the poll workers who don't know what to do with the names when the supposed registered voters don't show up.  The next thing you know, the activists and lawyers form Acorn and similar BS organizations show up screaming "DISENFRANCHISED!  THAT PERSON REGISTERED AS A DEMOCRAT SO YOU SHOULD REGISTER THEIR VOTE AS SUCH!"
I find it hilarious (not) that these same people were hollering voter fraud in 2000 and 2004 yet not a single shred of evidence was ever produced and no indictments were handed out to anybody in those elections and this year the same people whoe were hollering now get caught redhanded and nobody gives 2 shits.

Is this America or Venezuela/Mexico/Korea...????????????????????????????????

MMJ---it's a huge problem, not sure people are saying it's not-just trying to make light of it-what are we going to do about it posting on a music board? the polling is never exact--i mean i don't even think they ever get to absentee ballots unless they're needed so in a sense, those votes don't even count.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM8l3X_7Hkg[/media]

This is funny.

This was the absolute best moment in the debate...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLAK2RXuoj0[/media]

He finally said it.

Say it aint so Joe.  Below is an article that was in the NY POST  today.

An official at Local 50 of the plumber's union, based in Toledo, said Mr. Wurzelbacher does not hold a license. He also has never served an apprenticeship and does not belong to the union. (The national plumber's union, the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters, and Service Mechanics, endorsed Mr. Obama, it should be noted.)

"He's basically playing games with the world," Thomas Joseph, the local's business manager, said in a telephone interview Thursday morning.

Just five days ago, Mr. Wurzelbacher, 34, lived in anonymity, a single father who worked all day at his plumbing business and came home to fix dinner and help his son with his homework, as he said on national television.

But he became the hero of conservatives and Republicans when he stopped Mr. Obama, who was campaigning on Shrewsbury Street on Sunday, and asked whether he believed in the American dream. Mr. Wurzelbacher said he was concerned about having to pay taxes as he reached a point where he could afford to buy his own plumbing business, one he said would draw income of $250,000 a year.

"I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes $250,000 to $280,000 a year," he told Mr. Obama during an exchange that was filmed and later showed up on YouTube. "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"

That encounter led to New York Post headlines, appearances on the Fox News Channel and interviews with conservative groups, who seized on part of Mr. Obama's reply.

"I think that when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody," Mr. Obama had said.

When Mr. McCain invoked Mr. Wurzelbacher in Wednesday's debate — some version of "Joe the Plumber" was mentioned two dozen times during the 90 minutes — as a way to criticize Mr. Obama's tax plan and wealth-sharing argument, Mr. Wurzelbacher suddenly found camera crews outside his home, Katie Couric on the phone, and himself in the full glare of the media spotlight.

Mr. Wurzelbacher did not respond to a message left on his home phone and there was no answer at his plumbing business.

On Thursday, he told the Associated Press that he felt like Britney Spears.

"I'm kind of like Britney Spears having a headache," he said. "Everybody wants to know about it."

Unlike some other states, Ohio does not have a formal statewide licensing system for plumbers. But the city of Toledo and other municipalities do, Mr. Joseph said, and Mr. Wurzelbacher has not met those requirements.

"All contractors are licensed, and he does not have a license, either as a contractor or a plumber," the union official said, citing a search of government records. "I can't find that he's ever even applied for any kind of apprenticeship, and he has never belonged to local 189 in Columbus, which is what he claims on his Facebook page."

According to public records, Mr. Wurzelbacher has been subject to two liens, each over $1,000, one of which — a personal tax lien — is still outstanding.

And his question to Mr. Obama about paying taxes? According to some tax analysts, if Mr. Wurzelbacher's gross receipts from his business is $250,000 — and not his taxable income — then he would not have to pay higher taxes under Mr. Obama's plan, and probably would be eligible for a tax cut.

Mr. Wurzelbacher is registered to vote in Lucas County under the name Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher.

"We have his named spelled W-O, instead of W-U," Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections, said in a telephone interview. "Handwriting is sometimes hard to read. He has never corrected it in his registration card."



I hope his vote doesn't get thrown out.  That would be a shame.
I feel bad for Joe the Plumber, he limited his customer base to republicans that like un-licensed and inexperienced  plumbers.  Thats not a very good business decision. I honestly think he wishes he never got involved, Now Mccain has invoked his name into a shitstorm of media scrutiny.
Maybe he will get a book or a movie of the week deal to make up for his lack of business.  I wish you luck Poor Joey the plumber :(.

Doesn't change the fact that Obama is a socialist, though.

:'(

Joe six pack

Joe the plumber

Gloria the ATV rider

[media]http://www.youtube.com/v/BaxECcTjCuw&hl=en&fs=1[/media]

QuoteDoesn't change the fact that Obama is a socialist, though.

:'(

:)  Is that all you got  ;) :)

It's ok to agree to disagree,  nothing personal here. Your a smart man Angry and I like you and your testicular fortitude. I'm gald your on my side.  We are all still gonna be Americans on Nov 5th.
Election time really is silly season.  

QuoteJoe six pack

Joe the plumber

Gloria the ATV rider

[media]http://www.youtube.com/v/BaxECcTjCuw&hl=en&fs=1[/media]

Is it irony that the fate of the Republican party is always left to the people that they are least likely to help?  Bush and Rove managed to rally the fear to a couple of "wins", but thousands of homosexuals racing down from the mountain to burn our bibles just doesn't scare people as much as losing your home, your savings, your son or daughter in a conflict predicated on lies.

The acorn eating arab who pals around with terrorists (and McCain refused to let this go last night despite Obama's perfetly reasonable explanation) being promoted by the hockey mom and her running mate just seems tired and desperate.

QuoteDoesn't change the fact that Obama is a socialist, though.

 :)

mccain/palin = same shit, different people.

JOE JONAS FOR PRESIDENT.

Quote

QuoteDoesn't change the fact that Obama is a socialist, though.

:'(

:)  Is that all you got  ;) :)

no, he's got this too:

McCain is not running against Bush. He's running against Barack Huessain Obama

And you wonder why you got scared, old white women telling McCain that Obama is an Arab? Because you got idiots evoking Obama's middle name to scare people.

classless, ignorant and sad.  I expect more from a fellow Jacket fan, but I guess politics brings out the scared child in some.

Quoteno, he's got this too:

McCain is not running against Bush. He's running against Barack Huessain Obama

And you wonder why you got scared, old white women telling McCain that Obama is an Arab? Because you got idiots evoking Obama's middle name to scare people.

classless, ignorant and sad.  I expect more from a fellow Jacket fan, but I guess politics brings out the scared child in some.

You've had some good ones throughout the years, Tracy, but the "lunatic fringe" act is my favorite - so close to Halloween and elections, too - I'm just afraid a lot of people here will think you really believe that it is classless and ignorant and sad and racist for someone to call a presidential candidate by his full name.

Hilarious, too, to assume that these old, racist white women wouldn't eventually find out what Obama's full name is if they hadn't jumped on the My Morning Jacket forums and read what I had to say a month or two ago.

(It's worth noting that since you've kept regurgitating my sacrilegious evoking of The One's true name, it's safe to assume that Obama's full name is even more widely read now - ouch)

SERIOUSLY, THOUGH... You've had me wondering, Tracy... do you guys and gal's think Obama's full name will be on the ballots?

 it's really really sad it's such a big deal to people that one person is black and the other is a woman.  It makes me think no one even cares what their policies are or what they are saying.  Palin is a sad excuse for a VP and I can not even start to understand why people would vote McCain/Palin.  McCain was literally a prison of war. He is probably not completely sane.  if I was tortured, I wouldn't be the same.   I don't think he should have the power to bomb people for the pure fact that when he's about to push the button it's possible he'll have a flash back and blow up the world.

Quote

Quoteno, he's got this too:

McCain is not running against Bush. He's running against Barack Huessain Obama

And you wonder why you got scared, old white women telling McCain that Obama is an Arab? Because you got idiots evoking Obama's middle name to scare people.

classless, ignorant and sad.  I expect more from a fellow Jacket fan, but I guess politics brings out the scared child in some.

You've had some good ones throughout the years, Tracy, but the "lunatic fringe" act is my favorite - so close to Halloween and elections, too - I'm just afraid a lot of people here will think you really believe that it is classless and ignorant and sad and racist for someone to call a presidential candidate by his full name.

Hilarious, too, to assume that these old, racist white women wouldn't eventually find out what Obama's full name is if they hadn't jumped on the My Morning Jacket forums and read what I had to say a month or two ago.

(It's worth noting that since you've kept regurgitating my sacrilegious evoking of The One's true name, it's safe to assume that Obama's full name is even more widely read now - ouch)

SERIOUSLY, THOUGH... You've had me wondering, Tracy... do you guys and gal's think Obama's full name will be on the ballots?

Man, I asked you 2x to discredit my claim that you use his middle name to evoke fear, and 2x you tucked tail. Both times I asked [size=16]IN BIG BLACK BOLD LETTERS[/size] and you ignored me, blew me off.

This isn't a game with me. This is about integrity, something you are seriously lacking in.

It's hilarious to you that republicans use Obama's middle name to evoke fear in people, to equate him with a middle eastern terrorist.

It's not funny to me.

And you are disingenious enough to claim ignorance about the use of Hussein. You think it has nothing to do more than using his middle name. Are you really that dumb? Are you really that out of touch?
Do you own a TV? Can you read a newspaper?

It's not funny to me.

At some point in your life (maybe) you'll look back and regret using such childish remarks to push across a conservative agenda.

You're not much different than Sarah on that ATV in the YouTube video, and you are comfortable with that. I guess not everyone from Alabama has been able to rise above the scourge of racism and hate. Some of you have it so ingrained in your being that you don't even recognize it.

I got nothing more for you.

Quote

Quote

Quoteno, he's got this too:

McCain is not running against Bush. He's running against Barack Huessain Obama

And you wonder why you got scared, old white women telling McCain that Obama is an Arab? Because you got idiots evoking Obama's middle name to scare people.

classless, ignorant and sad.  I expect more from a fellow Jacket fan, but I guess politics brings out the scared child in some.

You've had some good ones throughout the years, Tracy, but the "lunatic fringe" act is my favorite - so close to Halloween and elections, too - I'm just afraid a lot of people here will think you really believe that it is classless and ignorant and sad and racist for someone to call a presidential candidate by his full name.

Hilarious, too, to assume that these old, racist white women wouldn't eventually find out what Obama's full name is if they hadn't jumped on the My Morning Jacket forums and read what I had to say a month or two ago.

(It's worth noting that since you've kept regurgitating my sacrilegious evoking of The One's true name, it's safe to assume that Obama's full name is even more widely read now - ouch)

SERIOUSLY, THOUGH... You've had me wondering, Tracy... do you guys and gal's think Obama's full name will be on the ballots?

Man, I asked you 3x to discredit my claim that you use his middle name to evoke fear, and 3x you tucked tail. 3 times, and you ignored me, blew me off.

This isn't a game with me. This is about integrity, something you are seriously lacking in.

It's hilarious to you that republicans use Obama's middle name to evoke fear in people, to equate him with a middle eastern terrorist.

It's not funny to me.

And you are disingenious enough to claim ignorance about the use of Hussein. You think it has nothing to do more than using his middle name. Are you really that dumb? Are you really that out of touch?
Do you own a TV? Can you read a newspaper?

It's not funny to me.

At some point in your life (maybe) you'll look back and regret using such childish remarks to push across a conservative agenda.

You're not much different than Sarah on that ATV in the YouTube video, and you are comfortable with that. I guess not everyone from Alabama has been able to rise above the scourge of racism and hate. Some of you have it so ingrained in your being that you don't even recognize it.

I got nothing more for you.

I know you've got more for us, Tracy. At least... I hope so.

QuoteNader!  Nader!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5ZRRimf3Ps&eurl=http://www.votenader.org/index.html [/media]

That just makes me really sad.....and angry.  


McCain pulled out the kitchen sink last night and heaved it into the back yard of Joe Six Pack....

Ayers
ACORN
Joe the Plumber

All gimmicks that hold no water (built to spill), unless of course you are just looking for an excuse to vote for McCain.  Desperation does not suite this candidate very well.  

Quote
I know you've got more for us, Tracy. At least... I hope so.

Yes I do.

As many times as I got your back on this forum (from the KKK in Tuscaloosa to Forum trolls) and stood up for you. Then you don't have the decency to answer my 1 question; you totally disregard my 1 question I asked simply for clarity, man. You totally turned tail and then laugh about it, after I got your back those other times. And you simply blow me off.

QuoteWhoa, Whoa, ease up boys.  I understand what you are angry about Tracy but to accuse Brad of having ZERO integrity is not the way to go about this.  

I'll stand corrected

I'd like to buy the movie rights to this thread.

QuoteI'd like to buy the movie rights to this thread.

I'd like Obama to win the election...

Quote

QuoteI'd like to buy the movie rights to this thread.

I'd like Obama to win the election...

yes. that's how the movie will end. white house, zoom in, obama, happy music, people dancing, freeze frame, fade out, credits, more happy music.

QuoteThen you don't have the decency to answer my 1 question; you totally disregard my 1 question I asked simply for clarity, man. You totally turned tail and then laugh about it, after I got your back those other times. And you simply blow me off.

Alright, you've brought me to the table, Tracy.

The reason I've blown you off and didn't feel it was necessary to defend myself against your charges that I am a racist, classless, ignorant, sad, lacking integrity, scaring old white women, and pushing a conservative agenda on the My Morning Jacket forums is because your entire charge is on account of the one instance where I referred to Obama by his full name.

Don't you see how absurd you sound, Tracy? Of course I'm going to laugh at that. How is that any less ridiculous than the guy who accused all of the University of Alabama staff of being KKK members? Remember, you stuck up with me on that one!

I'm not denying that people are calling Obama an Arab. I'm not denying that there are viral e-mails being shot around with photos of Obama wearing a turban and all of that stuff, accusing him of being a Muslim. In fact, I talked about those old white people in the red states a long while ago in a thread that was deleted. But you're wrong to throw me in with that lot, and I think, or at least hope you know that.

Anyway, I know what's annoyed you is the fact that all I've done is just laugh at your charges. But what's annoying to me is that you're so focused on the fact that I wrote out His name that you disregarded what I was saying - which is that Bush isn't in the race and that that needs to be made clear by the candidate. And it should be noted, for the sake of keeping this thread on the rails, that in typical McCain fashion, he didn't make it clear until the third and final round.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLAK2RXuoj0[/media]

Anyway, the bottom line is, Tracy, that despite our friendship and everything - you've still taken that one instance where I referred to Obama by his full name and deduced that I am a racist, I am classless, ignorant, sad, lacking integrity, scaring old white women, and worse of all, pushing a conservative agenda on the My Morning Jacket forums. Really, Tracy?

QuoteI'd like to buy the movie rights to this thread.

Oh, that should totally be a thread in of itself. If you were casting a movie about a forum subplot, which A-list stars would you pick for each forum member?

;D

Quote

QuoteThen you don't have the decency to answer my 1 question; you totally disregard my 1 question I asked simply for clarity, man. You totally turned tail and then laugh about it, after I got your back those other times. And you simply blow me off.

Alright, you've brought me to the table, Tracy.

The reason I've blown you off and didn't feel it was necessary to defend myself against your charges that I am a racist, classless, ignorant, sad, lacking integrity, scaring old white women, and pushing a conservative agenda on the My Morning Jacket forums is because your entire charge is on account of the one instance where I referred to Obama by his full name.

Don't you see how absurd you sound, Tracy? Of course I'm going to laugh at that. How is that any less ridiculous than the guy who accused all of the University of Alabama staff of being KKK members? Remember, you stuck up with me on that one!

I'm not denying that people are calling Obama an Arab. I'm not denying that there are viral e-mails being shot around with photos of Obama wearing a turban and all of that stuff, accusing him of being a Muslim. In fact, I talked about those old white people in the red states a long while ago in a thread that was deleted. But you're wrong to throw me in with that lot, and I think, or at least hope you know that.

Anyway, I know what's annoyed you is the fact that all I've done is just laugh at your charges. But what's annoying to me is that you're so focused on the fact that I wrote out His name that you disregarded what I was saying - which is that Bush isn't in the race and that that needs to be made clear by the candidate. And it should be noted, for the sake of keeping this thread on the rails, that in typical McCain fashion, he didn't make it clear until the third and final round.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLAK2RXuoj0[/media]

Anyway, the bottom line is, Tracy, that despite our friendship and everything - you've still taken that one instance where I referred to Obama by his full name and deduced that I am a racist, I am classless, ignorant, sad, lacking integrity, scaring old white women, and worse of all, pushing a conservative agenda on the My Morning Jacket forums. Really, Tracy?

QuoteI'd like to buy the movie rights to this thread.

Oh, that should totally be a thread in of itself. If you were casting a movie about a forum subplot, which A-list stars would you pick for each forum member?

;D

whatever you want to believe man; there's a conservative radio host in Nashville who uses Barak Hussein Obama. He also says he uses it only b/c it's his middle name. No other reason than that; and he calls no other candidate by their full name, just the one who's middle name happens to be Hussein. And that's just a coincidence...

I don't believe either of you.

-Are some of my responses here over the top? Perhaps, but next time someone asks you a question b/c of one of your comments, you should maybe answer it then and not wait 3 weeks to respond. It's been my experience in life that answering someone's question usually inhibits the flow of communication, where ignoring the question doesn't.

peace

Letterman pretty much filleted McCain...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiBqHczYJYo[/media]

QuoteI don't believe either of you.

Well, if you had your mind made up about me, then why have you wasted your time the past month or two trying to get me to respond to your absurd charges? I finally give you the benefit of the doubt, because you've got hurt feelings that I won't talk to you about it, but when I speak to you like you're a normal person, you just say, "I don't believe you or this racist guy on Nashville talk radio."

In your attempt to make me look like the bad guy, though, you're the one looking bad. You say I'm racist, but you're the one who keeps talking about Obama and Arabs... You say I'm classless, but you're the one who has been attacking my character without abandon the past two months. You say I'm ignorant, but you're the one damning me based only on my saying Obama's full name, once. You call me sad, but you're the one who has made a personal crusade out of making something out of nothing. You say I lack integrity, but again, you're the one giving up on your own principles, and breaking forum rules, in order to attack my principles. You say I'm a fear monger, but you're the one screaming "RACIST!"!

Don't you see? You're a hypocrite, Tracy.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyzHUaLJT7Q[/media]

(http://www.peoriasportsonline.com/wp-content/themes/mimbo2.2/images/referee.jpg)

(http://coreygilmore.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg)

Quote

QuoteI don't believe either of you.

Well, if you had your mind made up about me, then why have you wasted your time the past month or two trying to get me to respond to your absurd charges? I finally give you the benefit of the doubt, because you've got hurt feelings that I won't talk to you about it, but when I speak to you like you're a normal person, you just say, "I don't believe you or this racist guy on Nashville talk radio."

In your attempt to make me look like the bad guy, though, you're the one looking bad. You say I'm racist, but you're the one who keeps talking about Obama and Arabs... You say I'm classless, but you're the one who has been attacking my character without abandon the past two months. You say I'm ignorant, but you're the one damning me based only on my saying Obama's full name, once. You call me sad, but you're the one who has made a personal crusade out of making something out of nothing. You say I lack integrity, but again, you're the one giving up on your own principles, and breaking forum rules, in order to attack my principles. You say I'm a fear monger, but you're the one screaming "RACIST!"!

Don't you see? You're a hypocrite, Tracy.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyzHUaLJT7Q[/media]

angry ewok

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court is siding with Ohio's top elections official in a dispute with the state Republican Party over voter registrations.
The justices on Friday overruled a federal appeals court that had ordered Ohio's top elections official to do more to help counties verify voter eligibility.

Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, a Democrat, faced a deadline of Friday to set up a system to provide local officials with names of newly registered voters whose driver's license numbers or Social Security numbers on voter registration forms don't match records in other government databases.

Ohio Republicans contended the information for counties would help prevent fraud. Brunner said the GOP is trying to disenfranchise voters.


Nuff Said  ::)


(http://pics.swsnews.com/i-voted-today.png)

I already voted for the terrorist (absentee ballot).

I don't consider "Conservative" to be a dirty word. Politically, I'm pretty conservative in many respects. I actually like McCain as a Republican candidate. But Obama isn't concerned with "winning" the war in Iraq, and will push for withdrawl, which I consider to be VERY important. He'll push for more oversight and regulation (than McCain would) in the restructuring of our banking system, which I also feel is VERY important at this point. While his tax plan isn't the best for big business and job growth, it's sensible (imo), and keeps in place most of the Bush tax policy for the lower and middle classes. Obama's health care proposal is the best of the two candidates at fixing what will be a HUGE problem and financial drain if left to its current course.

I like McCain's commitment to cutting the fat from our bloated government, and he has a proven history of pushing for it (as proven as you can be for a US Senator). He is better than most Repubs environmentally. He's wily, and I like that.

Obama is unproven - A BIG question mark. But he's an intelligent man, and people WANT to be lead by him (not Angry Ewok, but a lot of others ;)). He'll choose the advisors he needs to support him as he takes his first step as president. I have no problem voting for a Republican when he or she is the best candidate. That's just not the case this time.

Everyone, get past the bullshit. When we start discussing hate tactics exclusively, that's when we've fallen for it. That shit doesn't matter unless we let it.

QuoteI already voted for the terrorist (absentee ballot).

I don't consider "Conservative" to be a dirty word. Politically, I'm pretty conservative in many respects. I actually like McCain as a Republican candidate. But Obama isn't concerned with "winning" the war in Iraq, and will push for withdrawl, which I consider to be VERY important. He'll push for more oversight and regulation (than McCain would) in the restructuring of our banking system, which I also feel is VERY important at this point. While his tax plan isn't the best for big business and job growth, it's sensible (imo), and keeps in place most of the Bush tax policy for the lower and middle classes. Obama's health care proposal is the best of the two candidates at fixing what will be a HUGE problem and financial drain if left to its current course.

I like McCain's commitment to cutting the fat from our bloated government, and he has a proven history of pushing for it (as proven as you can be for a US Senator). He is better than most Repubs environmentally. He's wily, and I like that.

Obama is unproven - A BIG question mark. But he's an intelligent man, and people WANT to be lead by him (not Angry Ewok, but a lot of others ;)). He'll choose the advisors he needs to support him as he takes his first step as president. I have no problem voting for a Republican when he or she is the best candidate. That's just not the case this time.

Everyone, get past the bullshit. When we start discussing hate tactics exclusively, that's when we've fallen for it. That shit doesn't matter unless we let it.

this post is far too reasonable and grounded to be accepted on this thread...

it should be deleted   ;)

I know, I know. I had to come in and ruin the fun ;D

Carry on...  :D

Quote

QuoteThen you don't have the decency to answer my 1 question; you totally disregard my 1 question I asked simply for clarity, man. You totally turned tail and then laugh about it, after I got your back those other times. And you simply blow me off.

Don't you see how absurd you sound, Tracy? Of course I'm going to laugh at that. How is that any less ridiculous than the guy who accused all of the University of Alabama staff of being KKK members? Remember, you stuck up with me on that one!

QuoteI'd like to buy the movie rights to this thread.

Uh, that guy was me.  And you can review last year's college football thread for the play by play.  You didn't get then and you don't get it now.  I relayed a personal story about an experience I had at the Iron Bowl and you got hyper-sensitive about the whole deal.  I defended myself against you and Tracy (At one point Tracy accused me of calling the boys in MMJ racists - it got that special) and the whole thing was silly and pointless.

Your reponses in this fight are weak.  Tracy is oftentimes over the top and somewhat carzed, but he is on-point here.  There is but one reason to use Obama's full name and that reason is not proper identification.  My middle name is Milton.

I can't decide who is more scared of Obama's middle name. You guys, or the old white women. Talk about hypersensitive.

p.s. Nice to meet you, Milton. My middle name is Bradley. Isn't that cute? We're like pals, too, so that works out great.

Well, the GOP has successfully dumbed down the level the discourse.  I think we can all see that.  

This thread is a shit storm, not a political discussion.  I guess that's what happens when people try to win elections based on fear and innuendo.

Quote
Brunner said the GOP is trying to disenfranchise voters.

Like we're supposed to believe anything she says.  She should have gotten off her lazy fat ass and priovided the documentation, otherwise 1 of 2 things are true:  1) the charges are accurate about her and she has something to hide or 2) she's just too lazy to give a shit about doing her job correctly and/or corrupting a system that used to be a hallowed institution.

Obama would not pass the background check to be in the Secret Service based on his associations with William Ayers and Lousi Farrakan, so why would we want him as president?

Reasons to rise up out of the brainwashed (or for many Obamaniacs--only a light rinse was needed) state of "Yes we can. Change.  Yes we can.  Change.":
1) William Ayers
2) Black Liberation Theology & reverend Wright
3) Acorn
4) Tony Rezko
5) Higher taxes
7) Unproven junior senator w/ little to no accomplishment in D.C.
8) Louis Farakan
9) Father Fleagle
10) George Obama
11) Teddy Kennedy's endorsement
12) Socialist ideals
13) Endorsement from Hamas
14) Endorsement from Gitmo detainee lawyers
15) Endorsement from Hugo Chavez
16) Endorsement from Al Gore
17) Endorsement from Castro
I could go on but why would I need to???

Isn't Palin's husband a secessionist?  I'm pretty sure Obama isn't bumping uglies with anyone on that list.

QuoteTracy is oftentimes over the top and somewhat carzed 

Often times? How about sometimes, that just sounds better.

Quote

QuoteTracy is oftentimes over the top and somewhat carzed 

Often times? How about sometimes, that just sounds better.

I called you carzed.  What is carzed?  Do you look like Rick Okasik?  I thought is was over the top that time back in 'Nam when we were with the donkey and that guy said, "Dee Dee Mow!!!!"  And then you...  Never get off the boat!

Quote

Quote

QuoteTracy is oftentimes over the top and somewhat carzed 

Often times? How about sometimes, that just sounds better.

I called you carzed.  What is carzed?  Do you look like Rick Okasik?  I thought is was over the top that time back in 'Nam when we were with the donkey and that guy said, "Dee Dee Mow!!!!"  And then you...  Never get off the boat!

go, terps

Quote

Quote

Quote

QuoteTracy is oftentimes over the top and somewhat carzed 

Often times? How about sometimes, that just sounds better.

I called you carzed.  What is carzed?  Do you look like Rick Okasik?  I thought is was over the top that time back in 'Nam when we were with the donkey and that guy said, "Dee Dee Mow!!!!"  And then you...  Never get off the boat!

go, terps

Had to go there, didn't you?

what would be bad about a government ran health care system for people who don't have it already?  amtrak is run by the government nobody bitches that trains are going to run the world.  why should the health care system be based around insurance companies making a shitload of profits off of  people who aren't sick?  

poverty in america shouldn't exist.  but it does.  30-35k per year is basically the poverty line last time I checked.    could be a little off.  either way until we can educate our children and keep everyone healthy what's the point of doing anything else?  we're all just going to die anyways.   what about all the people who came back from Iraq thinking they were going to have jobs waiting and all that but are now just crazy mother fuckers with nothing but memories of war?  Obama is not a socialist, and even if he was there are plenty of working governments with socialist ideals but call themselves a "democracy".  I haven't read this whole thread so whatever.  anyone who votes for McCain is fucking stupid or a millionaire.  Neither will change the world, but one of them is definitely not Pro-violence. and that is Obama.  Obama is smart, young, and has his shit together.  McCain is old, has almost died before and his VP choice is extremely questionable along with a lot of the bullshit that man spits.  fuck McCain/Palin, fuck them in their butts.

Quotewhat would be bad about a government ran health care system for people who don't have it already?

Did the government run the school where you learned to spell?

public school baby awww yeah

Quotepublic school baby awww yeah

I think you just answered your own question

Quote

Quotepublic school baby awww yeah

I think you just answered your own question

whatever.

Quote
poverty in america shouldn't exist.  but it does.  

Actually, poverty must exist in America unless we actually become a socialist country.  The free market depends on a certain amount of the population to be homeless, a number of them to be poor, a number of them to be rich, and a shitton of people in the middle.  I agree with you, though, the ours numbers are not moving in the wrong direction.  The shrinking middle class, the growing lower class, and the concentration of wealth in the upper class are definite concerns.  

EDIT: That was supposed to be wrong.  oops

Quote

Quote
poverty in america shouldn't exist.  but it does.  

Actually, poverty must exist in America unless we actually become a socialist country.  The free market depends on a certain amount of the population to be homeless, a number of them to be poor, a number of them to be rich, and a shitton of people in the middle.  I agree with you, though, the ours numbers are not moving in the right direction.  The shrinking middle class, the growing lower class, and the concentration of wealth in the upper class are definite concerns.  

well then we should become fucking socialist or "nicelolist" or something where people don't have to suffer.  I wouldn't want to have to suffer, I don't think other people deserve to suffer.  inmates have it better then some people working trying to get by on minimum wage jobs.

Quote
well then we should become fucking socialist or "nicelolist" or something where people don't have to suffer.  I wouldn't want to have to suffer, I don't think other people deserve to suffer.  inmates have it better then some people working trying to get by on minimum wage jobs.

suffering is relative. I'd rather be homeless than in prison.

Quote

Quote
well then we should become fucking socialist or "nicelolist" or something where people don't have to suffer.  I wouldn't want to have to suffer, I don't think other people deserve to suffer.  inmates have it better then some people working trying to get by on minimum wage jobs.

suffering is relative. I'd rather be homeless than in prison.

I just spent the last 3 hours or so finessing a fella out of jail.  He called me as he rode away with the bail bondsman.  I did not specifically ask him, but I infer from the tears of joy that he was crying that he concurs.

there are far too many people going to prison.  that's another thing.  50+ percent of people in prison are in there for non-violent crimes.  it costs a lot of money to house inmates.  criminals don't pay taxes.  we are housing them, we are paying almost a 100 dollars a year each out of our own pockets to house these people.  I'm not afraid of some dude who used a fake credit card or wrote a bad check.  I think prison should be for rapists and murders, the hardcore shit.  we would have a lot of money for other programs and such.

QuoteI'd rather be homeless than in prison.

Agreed.

"I'm a real left winger because I've been down south and held peasants in my arms..."

homeless in the winter is fuuuun

Quotehomeless in the winter is fuuuun

So is uninvited ass love

Quote

Quotehomeless in the winter is fuuuun

So is uninvited ass love

different facilities have different ways about doing things.  prison is obviously horrible, being a homeless bum is sometimes a choice, but a lot times it's not.  the people have mental issues. who knows both sides of the coin are fucked

Quote

Quotehomeless in the winter is fuuuun

So is uninvited ass love

my butt is an exit

We've finally got this thread moving in a productive direction.  Maybe we can start a poll.  I bet McCain is for both univited ass love and unsheltered exposure to the winter.  Obama is against both...Wait the Hockey mom just called and she would like to clarify her position (she's from Alaska and knows a thing or two about cold winters):  She thinks anyone with a set of hands can build a igloo and she is against both uninvited and invited ass love.  Ass love is wrong.  Does that change your vote Tracy?

I won't vote; I don't believe in the democratic process and I hate America.

this is pretty cool. Make sure you scroll around and click on different shit. (you'll need volume up)

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

Apparently according to that Congresswoman from MN, I'm unAmerican because I'm a liberal. Wow, who knew?

Quotethis is pretty cool. Make sure you scroll around and click on different shit. (you'll need volume up)

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

That's great.  It only took me 2 minutes to blow up the world.

Quotethis is pretty cool. Make sure you scroll around and click on different shit. (you'll need volume up)

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

Awesome!


Sarah Palin is not my role model.  Sorry John.

Quotethis is pretty cool. Make sure you scroll around and click on different shit. (you'll need volume up)

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

I saw this a couple of days ago...Iranistan!  ;D

Quote

Quotethis is pretty cool. Make sure you scroll around and click on different shit. (you'll need volume up)

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

I saw this a couple of days ago...Iranistan!  ;D

Just found North Koreaistan & Something-stan  ;D ;D

I watched SNL with Palin and I wasn't impressed at all with the show.  I want my hour and a half back.   I thought she did a pretty good job. The writing was so vanilla it was nauseating.   If  I see one more Macgruber skit I'm gonna poke myself in the eye   Who is writing these skits ?  The best skit of the show was the one with Amy Poehler playing a horny pregnant women in a bar.  I laughed pretty hard.  But not worth the hype from NBC.  

I think I like this idea.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

One of my students, who is 7, said that his mom told him Barack Obama kills babies.

Good news for the GOP: lies based on fear work.  Bad news for our country: if Obama is elected a large percentage of our youth will believe that our country's president is a terrorist, baby-killer. Is that really what we need at this moment in our country's history?

oh don't worry--all the kid has to do is turn on MTV, Comedy Central or any of the big 3 networks to hear about how the GOP are rich, war loving, racist, religious fanatics.  happens on both sides...

Quoteoh don't worry--all the kid has to do is turn on MTV, Comedy Central or any of the big 3 networks to hear about how the GOP are rich, war loving, racist, religious fanatics.  happens on both sides...

That doesn't make me feel any better. Believe or not I'm not trying to say all reps are evil and all dems are perfect.  I'm making a point about how ignorant lies are unfortunately perpetuated through generations for what? To get one figurehead elected instead of another?

I realize that happens on both sides but I haven't heard anyone telling their children that John McCain wants to kill them, so that he's a secret Muslim (which apparently has become code for terrorist, another unfortunate result of this election season).  Those kind of attacks are on a whole other level.  It's detrimental to our country and just plain wrong, imo.  

QuoteOne of my students, who is 7, said that his mom told him Barack Obama kills babies.

Have you read his stance on abortion?

Quote

QuoteOne of my students, who is 7, said that his mom told him Barack Obama kills babies.

Have you read his stance on abortion?

Yes, but I haven't heard anything about McCain's stance.  Why? Because he is a secret pro-choicer trying not to be found out by the ignoramuses that teach their children that over-simplified lie, which is only designed to teach people to fear the possible future leader of our nation.  

I sincerely hope that you, Brad, as well as Penny don't teach your children through fear and hate.  It's not good for your children and it's not good for our country.

I'm not holding out too much hope for MMJfantatic though, he seems to be all about fear and hate.

This is the kind of political billboard I can get behind.

(http://www.drudgereport.com/orock.jpg)

Two things,

Life begins at conception, so in my opinion abortion is the termination of life. Obama is an extremist when it comes to abortion. Some folks are fine with that, but as a Christian I'm not.

I see nothing wrong with parents combating the liberal indoctrination their kids are getting at public school, but it's totally irresponsible to talk to a little child about abortion, though.

QuoteI'm not holding out too much hope for MMJfantatic though, he seems to be all about fear and hate.

I disagree, but I was called a racist and a fear monger, too, so pay me no mind. And P.S., Penny is lovely - no hate monger there.

QuoteOne of my students, who is 7, said that his mom told him Barack Obama kills babies.

Good news for the GOP: lies based on fear work.  Bad news for our country: if Obama is elected a large percentage of our youth will believe that our country's president is a terrorist, baby-killer. Is that really what we need at this moment in our country's history?

My 11 year old daughter's class picked  dodge  ball teams based on who they wanted to be president, 18 kids went to  team Obama and 1 kid was on team Mccain.  It was a bloodbath in the gym. The poor kid was massicured.

It must be a regional thing.  You should probably arrange a meeting with the parents of the 7 year old, to discuss the capacity of early childhood  development on teaching hatred towards others.   The parents of that child are some SCARY people.  

Quote
Life begins at conception, so in my opinion abortion is the termination of life. Obama is an extremist when it comes to abortion. Some folks are fine with that, but as a Christian I'm not.

there are plenty of loving Christian people who believe abortion is not killing. You (thank God) don't get to legislate your "version" of Christianity on humanity. There's a couple of passages in the Bible about judjing others, etc... you should check it out. As a tax paying citizen of the USA, you support abortion by paying taxes; you support a government that has legalized killing babies (in your opinion), and you give that governement (willingly and knowingly) your money that says you support the laws of the land, one of which is abortion is LEGAL. Doesn't really seem like it's that big of a moral dilema in the first palce.     What a Christian you are.

I guess you believe homosexuality is a sin too.

QuoteTwo things,

Life begins at conception, so in my opinion abortion is the termination of life. Obama is an extremist when it comes to abortion. Some folks are fine with that, but as a Christian I'm not.

I see nothing wrong with parents combating the liberal indoctrination their kids are getting at public school, but it's totally irresponsible to talk to a little child about abortion, though.

QuoteI'm not holding out too much hope for MMJfantatic though, he seems to be all about fear and hate.

I disagree, but I was called a racist and a fear monger, too, so pay me no mind. And P.S., Penny is lovely - no hate monger there.

Are kids really getting a "liberal indoctrination" at public schools these days?  Seems to me that the only indoctrinating going on in public schools deals with how to pass standardized tests so that the schools can be funded.  Very few teachers have time to think of anything other than basic survival; I mean eating and keeping the lights on kind of stuff.

It's funny that we may both choose to avoid public schools for our offspring (should you choose to breed) for very different reasons.  I want my daughters to be creative, free thinking, and unburdened and I just think that public school teachers are too restrained to foster this for the most part.  Sure, there are tons of exceptions, but I don't want my kids crying about standardized tests.  I want to believe that my kids are not standard.

i don't condone teaching or preaching hate to anyone, --did you not see the CHENEY thread yesterday calling him evil? all i've heard for 8 years is how our president and his administration are evil, stupid, war-mongering killers----my point is that it comes from both sides---i feel bad when a child hears these things--they are no more able to figure things out than most people i encounter on the street who have ZERO clue about anything---i mean people were wanting our VP to have a heart attack back a couple years ago--this guy does have a family somewhere---it's not one side or the other--it's EVERYWHERE. that was my point-i felt i needed to stick up for the GOP just like i did yesterday when i got an email forward from 5 black women in my office yesterday saying something about racism and the GOP and i decided to inform them that Nixon practically started affirmative action (Philadelphia Plan?), and also Kennedy voted AGAINST the Civil Rights Act in 1953 before he voted FOR it once MLKs father guaranteed him election votes. ..yet somehow all repubs are racist-i'm digressing. i feel bad that this happened but my point wasn't to dismiss it

brad-i can totally understand your viewpoint that life begins at conception--i'm  pro choice and i'll stick to the theory that life begins at the viability of the fetus --the problem w/talking about this issue is there's no middle ground so it's pointless. it's like capital punish--

i always enjoy pat buchanan's take on the media issue:
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78921

QuoteMy 11 year old daughter's class picked  dodge  ball teams based on who they wanted to be president, 18 kids went to  team Obama and 1 kid was on team Mccain.  It was a bloodbath in the gym. The poor kid was massicured.

Grown-ups do the same thing - this forum is evidence enough of that. Kudos to that one kid, though.

QuoteAre kids really getting a "liberal indoctrination" at public schools these days?

Yes. At least based on the five or six public schools I attended. There are plenty of reasons to avoid sending our kids to public school, we share several of them, I see.

Quotei don't condone teaching or preaching hate to anyone, --did you not see the CHENEY thread yesterday calling him evil? all i've heard for 8 years is how our president and his administration are evil, stupid, war-mongering killers----my point is that it comes from both sides---i feel bad when a child hears these things--they are no more able to figure things out than most people i encounter on the street who have ZERO clue about anything---i mean people were wanting our VP to have a heart attack back a couple years ago--this guy does have a family somewhere---it's not one side or the other--it's EVERYWHERE. that was my point-i felt i needed to stick up for the GOP just like i did yesterday when i got an email forward from 5 black women in my office yesterday saying something about racism and the GOP and i decided to inform them that Nixon practically started affirmative action (Philadelphia Plan?), and also Kennedy voted AGAINST the Civil Rights Act in 1953 before he voted FOR it once MLKs father guaranteed him election votes. ..yet somehow all repubs are racist-i'm digressing. i feel bad that this happened but my point wasn't to dismiss it

brad-i can totally understand your viewpoint that life begins at conception--i'm  pro choice and i'll stick to the theory that life begins at the viability of the fetus --the problem w/talking about this issue is there's no middle ground so it's pointless. it's like capital punish--

i always enjoy pat buchanan's take on the media issue:
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78921

I understand your argument: both sides do it.  I don't understand what you are inferring from that statement.  Are you inferring that it's okay because sides do it we have to guard our kids against liberal indoctrination by telling them awful lies?  If not, then what IS your point?  I didn't say all REPs are evil, in fact I said the opposite.  MY POINT is it should be stopped on both sides because it is wrong and only appeals to the worst of our nature.  I can't believe that would be a controversial thing to say on this board.

I'm curious about this liberal indoctrination occurring at public schools - is it what they're teaching there or is it what's not being taught, such as "intelligent design" in science classes, or the lack of organized praying in class? Cite some examples for me of the liberalism you experienced at your public schools. Were there specific school-wide policies to teach socialism or were there individual teachers trying to promote their own agendas?

The teacher responsible for that dodgeball stunt should be ashamed - all that person did was to teach kids how to groupthink and how it feels better to just go with the rest of the crowd instead of making your own decisions.

Quoteall i've heard for 8 years is how our president and his administration are evil, stupid, war-mongering killers

But if you even think of bringing up Obama's [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoqI5PSRcXM]Socialist plan for America[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaG6s05MKeM]foreign policy[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrW4fOGIMVY]insulting remarks about our military[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NN4TKrViNE&feature=related]radical take on abortion[/link], or [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZHH8OAro7g]beloved mentors[/link] well, you're just a fear mongering racist. See, that's how the extremists like Tracy work, Penny. He can call me all kinds of names all day long, he can attack my faith, he can attack my religion, he can go ballistic on me all day long - but I'm the one with the seething hatred.

;D

Quote

Quoteall i've heard for 8 years is how our president and his administration are evil, stupid, war-mongering killers

But if you even think of bringing up Obama's [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoqI5PSRcXM]Socialist plan for America[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaG6s05MKeM]foreign policy[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrW4fOGIMVY]insulting remarks about our military[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NN4TKrViNE&feature=related]radical take on abortion[/link], or [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZHH8OAro7g]beloved mentors[/link] well, you're just a fear mongering racist. See, that's how the extremists like Tracy work, Penny. He can call me all kinds of names all day long, he can attack my faith, he can attack my religion, he can go ballistic on me all day long - but I'm the one with the seething hatred.

;D

but I don't hate anyone. And I am a moderate.

Most of my irritation with you was the fact you refused to answer my question, and when you did, you lied.

You have no clue about me, really.

But don't you think that Letterman's question about G. Gordon Liddy was fair?  Will you not acknowledge that McCain's answer was bullshit?  What do you know about Watergate?  How come we don't play the you are who you associate with game on this front?  So Barack Hussein Obama can't sit on a board (with prominent Republicans by the way) with a washed-up terrorist, but it's ok for McCain to accept money and attand a fund raiser hosted by a central figure in the single greatest organized effort to subvert and destroy our entire system?  And it's o.k for the Hockey Mom's husband to belong to a party that openly advocates the secession of Alaska?

It is just weak and lack intellectual vigor.  And by the way, I believe that life really begins when we catch each other's eyes across a crowded place.  YOU'RE BEAUTIFUL!  YOU'RE BEAUTIFUL!  IT'S TRUE!

Quoteinsulting remarks about our military

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4692589.stm

"Nearly 25,000 civilians have died violently in Iraq since the US-led invasion in March 2003, a report says.

The dossier, based on media reports, says US-led forces were responsible for more than a third of the deaths."

Quote

As a tax paying citizen of the USA, you support abortion by paying taxes; you support a government that has legalized killing babies (in your opinion), and you give that governement (willingly and knowingly) your money that says you support the laws of the land, one of which is abortion is LEGAL. Doesn't really seem like it's that big of a moral dilema in the first palce.     What a Christian you are.

OK, I'm going to have to call Bull Shit on that one Tracy.   By this rationale, if I don't believe in any single law in this country, instead of working to try to change it, I should just move to another country.  What if there are no countries that stand for every single thing that I do?  Should I go to the moon?  Or I guess I would just have to jump off a bridge and martyr myself?

Quote

Quote

As a tax paying citizen of the USA, you support abortion by paying taxes; you support a government that has legalized killing babies (in your opinion), and you give that governement (willingly and knowingly) your money that says you support the laws of the land, one of which is abortion is LEGAL. Doesn't really seem like it's that big of a moral dilema in the first palce.     What a Christian you are.

OK, I'm going to have to call Bull Shit on that one Tracy.   By this rationale, if I don't believe in any single law in this country, instead of working to try to change it, I should just move to another country.  What if there are no countries that stand for every single thing that I do?  Should I go to the moon?  Or I guess I would just have to jump off a bridge and martyr myself?

Or just be a secessionist?

I don't think anyone is taking Tracy seriously, anymore.

QuoteBut don't you think that Letterman's question about G. Gordon Liddy was fair?

Why would you assume that? McCain isn't my candidate, by the way, I'm just sure he won't fuck the country as bad as Obama would.

QuoteSo Barack Hussein Obama can't sit on a board (with prominent Republicans by the way) with a washed-up terrorist...

I wasn't referring to Ayers, but yeah, him, too.

P.S. You're a racist for stating Obama's name.

QuoteLife begins at conception, so in my opinion abortion is the termination of life. Obama is an extremist when it comes to abortion. Some folks are fine with that, but as a Christian I'm not.

I'm confused...you say that, as a Christian, you object to the termination of life, yet you find it insulting when Obama points out that it would be better if 'we have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages & killing civilians' How is that comment, in your own words, "insulting remarks about our military"?
So you don't agree that NOT killing innocent civilians would be a good thing? Surely the military would rather they weren't killing innocent civilians? I'm surprised that anyone would find that comment offensive, especially someone who claims to 'object to the termination of life'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7625167.stm

There  really is 2 Americas, And the only way anything is going to change ( for better or worse depending on your views )) is a super majority to avoid filibustering by either party.  With no super majority it's gonna be business as usual in D.C.  

QuoteSo you don't agree that NOT killing innocent civilians would be a good thing? Surely the military would rather they weren't killing innocent civilians?

That's a sad attempt to twist my words. I'll say it again, it is insulting that Obama says our troops are over there just air-raiding villages and killing civilians. The implication there is that we're just carpet bombing Arabs with no enemy in sight. It's comments like that, that he continues to make (depending on the audience), that keeps McCain in this race.

This "Obama is a socialist" babble is driving me mad! Where, oh where, does he advocate the nationalization of any of America's industries (something the present government currently seems to be OK with, for finance at least)? Not even health care insurance, which he wants to remain privatized! Oh yeah, it's the tax rates - which change, up or down or all around, all the freaking time and do not constitute a shift in government philosophy. "Spreading the wealth" was a terrible thing to say, it implies taking from the rich and giving it directly to lazy-ass poor people - but nobody wants to give out welfare for anybody (except the lazy-ass people I suppose). I view taxation as an investment in our country - and it needs to be used that way, constantly updating and improving infrastructure, defense, schools, utilities, and the countless other services (not welfare!) that can be provided to everybody. That is, making things better for the common good, including those less well off as well as those who can afford it. Yes, I wish it could be used to better effect and not wasted so much. I think Obama can do a better job of changing our government to work better than McCain would. If this was 10 years ago, I would be saying the same thing about McCain, but he has since changed his ideas to fit with the thinking of the GOP.

Quote

Quoteall i've heard for 8 years is how our president and his administration are evil, stupid, war-mongering killers

But if you even think of bringing up Obama's [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoqI5PSRcXM]Socialist plan for America[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaG6s05MKeM]foreign policy[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrW4fOGIMVY]insulting remarks about our military[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NN4TKrViNE&feature=related]radical take on abortion[/link], or [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZHH8OAro7g]beloved mentors[/link] well, you're just a fear mongering racist. See, that's how the extremists like Tracy work, Penny. He can call me all kinds of names all day long, he can attack my faith, he can attack my religion, he can go ballistic on me all day long - but I'm the one with the seething hatred.

;D

brad--i met you and shared a fantastic bonnaroo moment w/you and consider you a kindred spirit/board friend---but are you saying you're a moderate? LOL

amD--i thought your original post was blaming it more on the GOP but i totally agree it's both sides and it's a problem. my post was all over the place probably.

QuoteThis "Obama is a socialist" babble is driving me mad! Where, oh where, does he advocate the nationalization of any of America's industries (something the present government currently seems to be OK with, for finance at least)? Not even health care insurance, which he wants to remain privatized! Oh yeah, it's the tax rates - which change, up or down or all around, all the freaking time and do not constitute a shift in government philosophy. "Spreading the wealth" was a terrible thing to say, it implies taking from the rich and giving it directly to lazy-ass poor people - but nobody wants to give out welfare for anybody (except the lazy-ass people I suppose). I view taxation as an investment in our country - and it needs to be used that way, constantly updating and improving infrastructure, defense, schools, utilities, and the countless other services (not welfare!) that can be provided to everybody. That is, making things better for the common good, including those less well off as well as those who can afford it. Yes, I wish it could be used to better effect and not wasted so much. I think Obama can do a better job of changing our government to work better than McCain would. If this was 10 years ago, I would be saying the same thing about McCain, but he has since changed his ideas to fit with the thinking of the GOP.

i wasn't an economics major but isn't redistributing wealth a main tenet of socialism? (basically what his tax plans aims to do and what he's said over and over)

Quote

QuoteSo you don't agree that NOT killing innocent civilians would be a good thing? Surely the military would rather they weren't killing innocent civilians?

That's a sad attempt to twist my words. I'll say it again, it is insulting that Obama says our troops are over there just air-raiding villages and killing civilians. The implication there is that we're just carpet bombing Arabs with no enemy in sight. It's comments like that, that he continues to make (depending on the audience), that keeps McCain in this race.

You post 12 sec youtube clips from Fox 'News' & then talk about sad attempts to twist words?

Quotebrad--i met you and shared a fantastic bonnaroo moment w/you and consider you a kindred spirit/board friend---but are you saying you're a moderate? LOL

:D ;D

Quote

QuoteLife begins at conception, so in my opinion abortion is the termination of life. Obama is an extremist when it comes to abortion. Some folks are fine with that, but as a Christian I'm not.

I'm confused...you say that, as a Christian, you object to the termination of life, yet you find it insulting when Obama points out that it would be better if 'we have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages & killing civilians' How is that comment, in your own words, "insulting remarks about our military"?
So you don't agree that NOT killing innocent civilians would be a good thing? Surely the military would rather they weren't killing innocent civilians? I'm surprised that anyone would find that comment offensive, especially someone who claims to 'object to the termination of life'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7625167.stm

Dboy i think i'm w/ewok on this one--even though that is pretty much what happened- i don't think it was a good thing to say/not offensive but i think he has a responsibility to the military to not make specific statements like that.

Quote

Quote

Quote

As a tax paying citizen of the USA, you support abortion by paying taxes; you support a government that has legalized killing babies (in your opinion), and you give that governement (willingly and knowingly) your money that says you support the laws of the land, one of which is abortion is LEGAL. Doesn't really seem like it's that big of a moral dilema in the first palce.     What a Christian you are.

OK, I'm going to have to call Bull Shit on that one Tracy.   By this rationale, if I don't believe in any single law in this country, instead of working to try to change it, I should just move to another country.  What if there are no countries that stand for every single thing that I do?  Should I go to the moon?  Or I guess I would just have to jump off a bridge and martyr myself?

Or just be a secessionist?

I don't think anyone is taking Tracy seriously, anymore.

QuoteBut don't you think that Letterman's question about G. Gordon Liddy was fair?

Why would you assume that? McCain isn't my candidate, by the way, I'm just sure he won't fuck the country as bad as Obama would.

QuoteSo Barack Hussein Obama can't sit on a board (with prominent Republicans by the way) with a washed-up terrorist...

I wasn't referring to Ayers, but yeah, him, too.

P.S. You're a racist for stating Obama's name.

Our money will either be spent on a war, which McCain will not stop, or will be redistributed to everyone. I am not a fan of either of these, but I can say that the second one is "fucking up our country" less. As much as I despise the government, I would much rather have someone in office who will stop an unjust war, while spending money out of his ass and giving more power to the central gov't; than to have a person in there who will continue to fund this war on "terrorism" which can never be won. IMO, they both suck.

Quote

QuoteLife begins at conception, so in my opinion abortion is the termination of life. Obama is an extremist when it comes to abortion. Some folks are fine with that, but as a Christian I'm not.

I'm confused...you say that, as a Christian, you object to the termination of life, yet you find it insulting when Obama points out that it would be better if 'we have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages & killing civilians' How is that comment, in your own words, "insulting remarks about our military"?
So you don't agree that NOT killing innocent civilians would be a good thing? Surely the military would rather they weren't killing innocent civilians? I'm surprised that anyone would find that comment offensive, especially someone who claims to 'object to the termination of life'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7625167.stm

I'm all together against the termination of human life....... except for those "towel heads"...... and capital punishment, I'm for that too...... oh and also I don't really mind people being tortured.....But besides those things, I'm COMPLETELY against the termination of human life.  ;D

[quote

but I can say that the second one is "fucking up our country" less. As much as I despise the government, I would much rather have someone in office who will stop an unjust war, while spending money out of his ass and giving more power to the central gov't; than to have a person in there who will continue to fund this war on "terrorism" which can never be won. IMO, they both suck.


[/quote]

amen

http://www.votenader.org/  

5 percent of the vote = Independent Party gets to debate 2012.

it won't matter-we will be pulling our troops out of iraq and sending them right over to afghanistan--which is even more of a mess--and already the UK/Canada and some euros (the Dutch) are intending to pull some of their troops--the burden will fall our tax dollars inevitably.

the good thing about electing obama--he'll be able to get some stuff through congress thanks to majority dems

the scary thing about electing obama--he'll be able to get some stuff through congress thanks to majority dems

Quote[...]than to have a person in there who will continue to fund this war on "terrorism" which can never be won. IMO, they both suck.

In some ways, the war on terror is a lot like the war on drugs.

QuoteI'm all together against the termination of human life....... except for those "towel heads"...... and capital punishment, I'm for that too...... oh and also I don't really mind people being tortured.....But besides those things, I'm COMPLETELY against the termination of human life.  ;D

Nice.  ;D

Quote

Quote

QuoteLife begins at conception, so in my opinion abortion is the termination of life. Obama is an extremist when it comes to abortion. Some folks are fine with that, but as a Christian I'm not.

I'm confused...you say that, as a Christian, you object to the termination of life, yet you find it insulting when Obama points out that it would be better if 'we have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages & killing civilians' How is that comment, in your own words, "insulting remarks about our military"?
So you don't agree that NOT killing innocent civilians would be a good thing? Surely the military would rather they weren't killing innocent civilians? I'm surprised that anyone would find that comment offensive, especially someone who claims to 'object to the termination of life'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7625167.stm

Dboy i think i'm w/ewok on this one--even though that is pretty much what happened- i don't think it was a good thing to say/not offensive but i think he has a responsibility to the military to not make specific statements like that.

Like I said, it was a 12 sec clip...so how can we even really discuss this? We don't know the full context & we don't know what was said before or after...using edited clips from Fox 'News' to try & put your point across is a bit of a joke really, isn't it?

Anyway, my initial point wasn't regarding the clip or Obama's comments, it was regarding Angry's pro-life stance in relation to him getting offended when Obama points out that the killing of innocent civilians is wrong & that something must be done to stop it from happening. He is quick to defend the troops but where is his empathy for the people of Iraq, in particular the 1000's of innocent people who lost their lives & the families left behind? Pro-life? Good for you but what happened to 'thou shall kill'? No wonder the insurgency is rising...

Hey look here's a good book:

(http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/15310000/15313740.JPG)

QuoteAnyway, my initial point wasn't regarding the clip or Obama's comments, it was regarding Angry's pro-life stance in relation to him getting offended when Obama points out that the killing of innocent civilians is wrong[...]

That wasn't what Obama said, and it wasn't his point. He said that air-raiding villages and killing citizens is just what our troops were doing until we could pour more troops into the Middle East to get the job done. (So, this is from one of his pro-surge speeches, I guess?) Anyway, His words, with or without Fox News.

Hopefully this lightens the mood in this thread...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLVSURlFoQs[/media]

Quote

QuoteAnyway, my initial point wasn't regarding the clip or Obama's comments, it was regarding Angry's pro-life stance in relation to him getting offended when Obama points out that the killing of innocent civilians is wrong[...]

That wasn't what Obama said, and it wasn't his point. He said that air-raiding villages and killing citizens is just what our troops were doing until we could more troops in the Middle East to get the job done. (So, this is from one of his pro-surge speeches, I guess?) Anyway, His words, with or without Fox News.

& you interpret his words as him insulting the military, what I interpret from his words, as a potential commander in chief, is that he is strong enough & proud enough to acknowledge his countries mistakes, to acknowledge that changes need to be made & point out that the killing of innocent civilians is wrong.
You interpret his use of the word 'just' as meaning 'that's the only thing they (the military) are doing'...because that's what Fox 'News' & the poster of that clip on youtube wanted you to interpret...I don't think that's what he meant at all.

More importantly though, it saddens me that you chose to comment on this part of my post rather than responding to my question regarding your empathy towards the people of Iraq...should we presume that you don't have any then?

Please don't think me rude for disappearing, it's nearly 4:00an here so I'm off to bed  :)

[media]http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=ISFNTRaXRiI[/media]

QuoteHopefully this lightens the mood in this thread...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLVSURlFoQs[/media]

;D ;D ;D

Quote

Quote

As a tax paying citizen of the USA, you support abortion by paying taxes; you support a government that has legalized killing babies (in your opinion), and you give that governement (willingly and knowingly) your money that says you support the laws of the land, one of which is abortion is LEGAL. Doesn't really seem like it's that big of a moral dilema in the first palce.     What a Christian you are.

OK, I'm going to have to call Bull Shit on that one Tracy.   By this rationale, if I don't believe in any single law in this country, instead of working to try to change it, I should just move to another country.  What if there are no countries that stand for every single thing that I do?  Should I go to the moon?  Or I guess I would just have to jump off a bridge and martyr myself?

I'm not talking about the speed limit or term limits for presidents, I can live with that stuff, I am saying this to those who really believe babies are being murdered.

If you feel your government is killing innocent people (and I'm not talking about casualties of war) how do you continue to support them? If you really think it's killing a baby, yet you do nothing more than gripe about it and vote, then I think you're not being genuine.

ewok, do you think homosexuality is a sin?

Or will you dodge this question too?

come on man, have some balls and answer the question

Why ask me? Read the book.

QuoteWhy ask me? Read the book.

Have some balls man, we're talking about your faith here and you dodge the question. Grow a pair and answer the question (for the 3rd time)

It's not a dodge. You should read the book. You'll enjoy it.

QuoteIt's not a dodge. You should read the book. You'll enjoy it.

I have read it, I don't think it's a sin, just like I don't think eating pork or shellfish is unholy.

I was asking you what you thought, but nevermind.

I've never read the book, but I heard the movie is better.  

QuoteI've never read the book, but I heard the movie is better.  

;D

That's a good one, K.

I don't think Obama's point from that youtube bite was to insult or criticize troops - it was criticizing military strategy and policy concerning the "war on terror", specifically that air raids and smart bombs are still going to kill more civilians than terrorists. And Brad is absolutely correct that this war is like the war on drugs, except that it's completely the same! It's an open-ended war, which can not possibly have an ending where one side surrenders. The other side is not a nation or a government, they're just a bunch of disconnected, semi-organized, murderous thugs, and they are not going to just give up. They must be combated as special criminals - you can't expect to end crime, but you do hope to stop known conspirators before they strike, and be prepared to react properly if they do. Invasions and the blind hope of converting other societies to democracy are not going to do a damn bit of good at fighting terrorism - multilateral special operations police forces would be much more effective at neutralizing threats which represent a tiny percentage of civilized population.

Penny, I tried to point out in my post that distributing wealth directly from the rich to the poor should not be the goal of this government, and I think Obama's hope is increase the common good through the means I stated, not just handing the money to the poor. I suppose using more of the wealth from those who can afford it easier than those who can't is somewhat economically socialistic, but it is a far cry from actual socialism, which aims to remove all wealth from everyone and advocates government ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of all goods and services. Also, higher tax rates for wealthier people have been a fact of life since the beginning of income tax in America, at plunderous rates in the 20's and 50's way higher than would be faced in an Obama administration, and under both conservative and liberal administrations. And did the wealthy shrivel up and die from the taxman then? No, they prospered as ever, but hid their money in tax dodges and shelters, which will continue to happen for anyone making enough money to hire a good tax attorney. I would love to see a system where individuals are taxed at the same rate (or not at all) on their income, with taxes on goods and services and proper enforcement of corporate taxes making up the difference, with the complete removal of systems for the wealthy to avoid payment. I view this society as getting what you pay for, and you've got to pay in to get something out, which for me is to enjoy life in what is still the most stable, secure, and free land in the world. Jeez, I sound like a politician. I wouldn't turn down a pay raise or an opportunity to make much more money just because I would be then be paying more taxes, would you?

QuoteI don't think Obama's point from that youtube bite was to insult or criticize troops - it was criticizing military strategy and policy concerning the "war on terror", specifically that air raids and smart bombs are still going to kill more civilians than terrorists. And Brad is absolutely correct that this war is like the war on drugs, except that it's completely the same! It's an open-ended war, which can not possibly have an ending where one side surrenders. The other side is not a nation or a government, they're just a bunch of disconnected, semi-organized, murderous thugs, and they are not going to just give up. They must be combated as special criminals - you can't expect to end crime, but you do hope to stop known conspirators before they strike, and be prepared to react properly if they do. Invasions and the blind hope of converting other societies to democracy are not going to do a damn bit of good at fighting terrorism - multilateral special operations police forces would be much more effective at neutralizing threats which represent a tiny percentage of civilized population.

Penny, I tried to point out in my post that distributing wealth directly from the rich to the poor should not be the goal of this government, and I think Obama's hope is increase the common good through the means I stated, not just handing the money to the poor. I suppose using more of the wealth from those who can afford it easier than those who can't is somewhat economically socialistic, but it is a far cry from actual socialism, which aims to remove all wealth from everyone and advocates government ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of all goods and services. Also, higher tax rates for wealthier people have been a fact of life since the beginning of income tax in America, at plunderous rates in the 20's and 50's way higher than would be faced in an Obama administration, and under both conservative and liberal administrations. And did the wealthy shrivel up and die from the taxman then? No, they prospered as ever, but hid their money in tax dodges and shelters, which will continue to happen for anyone making enough money to hire a good tax attorney. I would love to see a system where individuals are taxed at the same rate (or not at all) on their income, with taxes on goods and services and proper enforcement of corporate taxes making up the difference, with the complete removal of systems for the wealthy to avoid payment. I view this society as getting what you pay for, and you've got to pay in to get something out, which for me is to enjoy life in what is still the most stable, secure, and free land in the world. Jeez, I sound like a politician. I wouldn't turn down a pay raise or an opportunity to make much more money just because I would be then be paying more taxes, would you?

i agree w/most of that crispy but i think any plan that hands out tax refunds (basically taken from the top 5%) and hands it to everyone else (another form of welfare) is social-"istic"  *i guess not socialism--and yes, this has been done by republicans also-- i think the whole central planning aspect designed to change social/economic levels of people is the idea i'm talking about--i think it can be a good thing (1930s) but it can also be scary to me as a capitalist--it seems like he finds more value in public sector jobs (many times putting down wall street jobs--which btw create more jobs) *oh and the guy worships chomsky, too :D--

Quote

I'm not holding out too much hope for MMJfantatic though, he seems to be all about fear and hate.

All about fear and hate huh?
First--I don't hate anyone.  
Policies and anti-constitutional acts piss me off.  Trying to change how America is supposed to work based on fear and misleading claims pisses me off.  People (Obama--see my list in earlier post) who appear to have something to hide are not trustworthy to me.  
As far as fear:  I would hope all my fellow Americans would question policy making that would weaken America in this post-9/11 world--a place we can never go back from.
Please don't confuse questioning and the desire to know everthing about people who desire to run my country with emotions (though I do get emotional about protecting MY income).  But I understand where your outlook on the world comes from, being a teacher and all, relying on a "union" to insure your job security and fight against tests that would measure the ability of teachers to do their jobs effectively rather than allowing illiterate underacheivers to advance to the next grade and the next grade without actually learning anything constructive.  I think you reacted as you did to that child's remark because it was such a brutally honest description of your candidate's position.

Quote

QuoteOne of my students, who is 7, said that his mom told him Barack Obama kills babies.

Have you read his stance on abortion?

i read his stance on abortion and i don't remember anything about obama actually killing any babies.  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

QuoteI think you reacted as you did to that child's remark because it was such a brutally honest description of your candidate's position.

Out of the mouths of babes...

also i'm having major troubs with some of the hot topics in here. what's deal on this whole liberal school thing? i'm a teacher and i don't really see any evidence of this in the curriculum i am required to teach, nor in the way i talk to the children. i promote tolerance and looking at both sides of an issue. i have john mccain books and barack obama books for the kids to read and think about. this past week, i actually required them to read both at some point and write reader responses to them.

maybe it's because i don't teach that the big g sat down and created the earth. or maybe it's because i teach "science." oh well. i guess we can just eliminate all the real facts and also never say a word about birth control. it worked for bristol palin!

Yeah, you're right. It's a damned shame she's been punished with a baby.

QuoteYeah, you're right. It's a damned shame she's been punished with a baby.

yeah, super tight. i'm sure that's exactly what she wished for on her last birthday.

what i think is pretty obvious here is that she definitely did it as a teen. so she def should at least know about wrapping it up. nuff said.

There's a real possibility she knows what a condom is.

Quote

Quote

I'm not holding out too much hope for MMJfantatic though, he seems to be all about fear and hate.

All about fear and hate huh?
First--I don't hate anyone.  
Policies and anti-constitutional acts piss me off.  Trying to change how America is supposed to work based on fear and misleading claims pisses me off.  People (Obama--see my list in earlier post) who appear to have something to hide are not trustworthy to me.  
As far as fear:  I would hope all my fellow Americans would question policy making that would weaken America in this post-9/11 world--a place we can never go back from.
Please don't confuse questioning and the desire to know everthing about people who desire to run my country with emotions (though I do get emotional about protecting MY income).  But I understand where your outlook on the world comes from, being a teacher and all, relying on a "union" to insure your job security and fight against tests that would measure the ability of teachers to do their jobs effectively rather than allowing illiterate underacheivers to advance to the next grade and the next grade without actually learning anything constructive.  I think you reacted as you did to that child's remark because it was such a brutally honest description of your candidate's position.

I knew you would support it.  That is fucked up!  I don't know how you live with yourself but my bet is it has a lot to do with lies and ignorance.

BTW, I don't support the teacher union.  And I agree with NCLB in principal but not in practice.  I see it on the ground floor and since it has been put in effect to has only been detrimental to our schools and I know of not one teacher who has been held accountable for their scores. The only way to effectively do that is to disband the union.

And ewok, I've read the book, apparently more closely than you.  Jesus never mentions homosexuality, Paul does in his letters to the Romans.  If you read it carefully you will notice that it says God himself put homosexuality and other "sins" in the hearts of men to make it possible for his son rescue us from sin.  So how can you blame someone for being a homosexual if God is the one who made humans homosexuals.  It's in the book.  The other place in the Bible it is mentioned is among the other "laws" we don't follow like eating shellfish, women can't wear red on sundays, and  men should not have long hair.  So do you think our boys were an abomination when they rocked out long hair?  Do you think they shouldn't have the same rights as short haired people?  I think it's incredible either ignorant or disingenuous to pick out those passages and ignore more important passages like: judge not lest ye be judged, not one man is without sin, or the sermon on the mound where he talks about compassion for fellow humans, even the ones society deems criminals and sinners.  I think you could stand to read the book again with less hate in mind and more compassion.  Jesus would approve.

He didn't make them homosexual--he allows for that "sin of the heart" to exist in man.  It is up to man whether he pursues them or not.  Punishment is reserved for those who want to pursue that type of lifestyle if you read the words literally.

so taking the bible literally you believe that eating shellfish is just as bad as homosexuality?  You think long-haired men are an abomination?  But you don't believe: Judge not lest ye be judged? Or did you just forget about that part?

Not judging--simply stating whats there in the Old Testament.  Maybe you think you are qualified to reinterpret the words.

QuoteNot judging--simply stating whats there in the Old Testament.  Maybe you think you are qualified to reinterpret the words.

So you believe that eating shellfish and having long hair is a sin?  Or are YOU qualified to reinterpret the Bible?

Never said so--you keep trying to force words into my mouth.

Quote

QuoteNot judging--simply stating whats there in the Old Testament.  Maybe you think you are qualified to reinterpret the words.

So you believe that eating shellfish and having long hair is a sin?  Or are YOU qualified to reinterpret the Bible?

Or more to the point: have you never sinned?  Why do you receive forgiveness and compassion and other sinners don't.  I'm pretty positive that Bible doesn't say that.

QuoteNever said so--you keep trying to force words into my mouth.

You said you reinterpret the bible literally.  that what the bible literally said.  those are your words and the word of god, if that's what you believe.

Quote

QuoteNever said so--you keep trying to force words into my mouth.

You said you reinterpret the Bible literally.  that what the Bible literally said.  those are your words and the word of god, if that's what you believe.

Um no I didn't say that.  I never mentioned how I interpret the Bible I paraphrased an entry about a type of behavior.  You are really mixed up.

No, you are mixed up?  You pick the verses out of thin air that serve your agenda and ignore the ones you don't.  So was the Bible just joking when it said Judge not lest ye be judged or are you qualified to reinterpret the Bible?

It does say that, but whats your point about judging.  You trying to say I can't pass judgement on those running for president or something?

what gets me is that none of us really know

But, I keep my mind open, or try to.

Mayou Angelou says, "When someone introduces themelf as a Christian, she replies, 'Oh, already?'"

I like that. The Bible mentions LOVE about 50 billion times. But somehow that gets missed.

We're all going to die, and I don't think judging and condemming is anyway to live.

QuoteIt does say that, but whats your point about judging.  You trying to say I can't pass judgement on those running for president or something?

You can't pass judgement on gay people because they are sinners just like you, according to the Bible.


I'm making swiss cheese out of your arguments if you've noticed.  Your stances don't stand up to reason.  So why don't you stick to teaching your children Obama kills babies and give up trying to convince those of us with the capacity for rational thought

Convince you of what exactly?  Read the Old Testament and you will see the passage.  I am not judging the morality of homosexuals--that is up to God.  
As far as your capacity for rational thought--I find that questionable since you are so dismissive about all the questionable associations and ideology raised about a political candidate who doesn't feel the citizens of the country rate any kind of explanation.
The U.S. didn't rise to greatness by following a socialist model for its society.  If we remove the motivation of a merit based reward system for the people who actually work for a living by stripping away the goal of continuing to earn more by performing well because we know most will be stripped away to "spead it around" then there's little point in trying to excel (except for maybe at cheating the tax system).

McCain voted to National the Banks and education, smells like socialism to me.

QuoteMcCain voted to National the Banks and education, smells like socialism to me.

We already have a federal dept of education--which was a horrible huge mistake.  Feds are in charge of money already too--hello--federal reserve?

I don't want my wallet raped any harder than it already is.

I think a lot of people who condemn homosexuality have a fear of their own same sex attraction. That gets played out over and over and over again. I think sexual attraction falls on a continuum and no one is completely gay or str8.

Hate what you don't understand. Hate what you fear.

QuoteI think a lot of people who condemn homosexuality have a fear of their own same sex attraction. That gets played out over and over and over again. I think sexual attraction falls on a continuum and no one is completely gay or str8.

Hate what you don't understand. Hate what you fear.

That is probably true for haters

QuoteI think a lot of people who condemn homosexuality have a fear of their own same sex attraction. That gets played out over and over and over again. I think sexual attraction falls on a continuum and no one is completely gay or str8.

Hate what you don't understand. Hate what you fear.

Neil Peart had it here:
They say there are strangers who threaten us,
are immigrants and infidels.
They say there is strangeness too dangerous
In our theaters and bookstore shelves.
Those who know what's best for us
Must rise and save us from ourselves.

Quick to judge,
Quick to anger,
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear walk hand in hand...

Quote

QuoteMcCain voted to National the Banks and education, smells like socialism to me.

We already have a federal dept of education--which was a horrible huge mistake.  Feds are in charge of money already too--hello--federal reserve?

I don't want my wallet raped any harder than it already is.

There is a difference between the federal reserve and the bill McCain voted into law recently. Hello!?  And NCLB, which you seem to support and McCain voted for expanded the role of the federal government in the area of education.  So are you a socialist?

Quote

QuoteI think a lot of people who condemn homosexuality have a fear of their own same sex attraction. That gets played out over and over and over again. I think sexual attraction falls on a continuum and no one is completely gay or str8.

Hate what you don't understand. Hate what you fear.

Neil Peart had it here:
They say there are strangers who threaten us,
are immigrants and infidels.
They say there is strangeness too dangerous
In our theaters and bookstore shelves.
Those who know what's best for us
Must rise and save us from ourselves.

Quick to judge,
Quick to anger,
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear walk hand in hand...

you're my hero

:)

Quote

Quote

QuoteMcCain voted to National the Banks and education, smells like socialism to me.

We already have a federal dept of education--which was a horrible huge mistake.  Feds are in charge of money already too--hello--federal reserve?

I don't want my wallet raped any harder than it already is.

There is a difference between the federal reserve and the bill McCain voted into office. Hello!?  And NCLB, which you seem to support and McCain voted for expanded the role of the federal government in the area of education.  So are you a socialist?

Nope--I want smaller government and the U.S. to go back to its federalist roots where the states made decisions independently regarding laws etc.  I don't believe its the government's job to redistribute peoples' incomes.  Provide for the common defense and keep the highways in operating order sound like good places to start.

So you don't support NCLB despite what you said earlier in this thread?

Quote

Quote

Quote

QuoteMcCain voted to National the Banks and education, smells like socialism to me.

We already have a federal dept of education--which was a horrible huge mistake.  Feds are in charge of money already too--hello--federal reserve?

I don't want my wallet raped any harder than it already is.

There is a difference between the federal reserve and the bill McCain voted into office. Hello!?  And NCLB, which you seem to support and McCain voted for expanded the role of the federal government in the area of education.  So are you a socialist?

Nope--I want smaller government and the U.S. to go back to its federalist roots where the states made decisions independently regarding laws etc.  I don't believe its the government's job to redistribute peoples' incomes.  Provide for the common defense and keep the highways in operating order sound like good places to start.

I couldn't agree with that statement more, but there's a difference between providing for the common defense and continuing/starting an unjustified war(McCain). Oh, and Barack is no different. He may get us out of Iraq, in about 2 f-ing years, but he'll ultimately direct us into something new. We just can't keep our noses out.

QuoteI think a lot of people who condemn homosexuality have a fear of their own same sex attraction. That gets played out over and over and over again. I think sexual attraction falls on a continuum and no one is completely gay or str8.

Hate what you don't understand. Hate what you fear.

Sorry, Tracy, but I'm completely straight. I agree, though, that the folks spewing hate are often times telling on themselves. There's a great story about that with King David.

OK. I am not going to read this thread after this as it truly is just mental masterbation, no offense to anyone in particular.

I do not know if anyone on this board makes $250,000 or more a year. If you do not, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU BITCHING ABOUT? If Obama wins, he is promising you a tax cut. When did that become a bad thing?

I'm so sick of this shit. Whatever poeple. Vote who you want to, but vote! If you don't, you have absolutly no fucking right to bitch and complain about a damn thing in this country.

QuoteOK. I am not going to read this thread after this as it truly is just mental masterbation, no offense to anyone in particular.

I do not know if anyone on this board makes $250,000 or more a year. If you do not, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU BITCHING ABOUT? If Obama wins, he is promising you a tax cut. When did that become a bad thing?

I'm so sick of this shit. Whatever poeple. Vote who you want to, but vote! If you don't, you have absolutly no fucking right to bitch and complain about a damn thing in this country.

Got my absentee ballot in the mail yesterday.  ;D

QuoteOK. I am not going to read this thread after this as it truly is just mental masterbation, no offense to anyone in particular.

I do not know if anyone on this board makes $250,000 or more a year. If you do not, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU BITCHING ABOUT? If Obama wins, he is promising you a tax cut. When did that become a bad thing?

I'm so sick of this shit. Whatever poeple. Vote who you want to, but vote! If you don't, you have absolutly no fucking right to bitch and complain about a damn thing in this country.

Agreed. Anyone making less than 250,000 and voting Republican could not possibly understand the platforms of the GOP.  They are delusional,  MMJfantatic is a prime example of that.

Quote

QuoteI think a lot of people who condemn homosexuality have a fear of their own same sex attraction. That gets played out over and over and over again. I think sexual attraction falls on a continuum and no one is completely gay or str8.

Hate what you don't understand. Hate what you fear.

Sorry, Tracy, but I'm completely straight. I agree, though, that the folks spewing hate are often times telling on themselves. There's a great story about that with King David.

little sensitive huh? I wasn't even talking to you and you weren't even in the conversation, but you feel compelled to defend your sexuality.

interesting  ::)

You might be onto something.

You always have the right to bitch even if you didn't vote. There are many Americans who feel they have grown up in a country that limits itself with a political system that fails to deliver worthy candidates.

And of course a significant percentage doesn't vote simply because they can't. Unfortunately, we have a country that occasionally makes it difficult to get to the polls. But of course there's a whole psychology behind that.

Quote

QuoteI think a lot of people who condemn homosexuality have a fear of their own same sex attraction. That gets played out over and over and over again. I think sexual attraction falls on a continuum and no one is completely gay or str8.

Hate what you don't understand. Hate what you fear.

Sorry, Tracy, but I'm completely straight. I agree, though, that the folks spewing hate are often times telling on themselves. There's a great storyabout that with King David.

You are dead to me brad.

QuoteThere's a real possibility she knows what a condom is.

i love how you feel the need to completely twist everything i said and make into another issue. yes, i really hate babies and think they are just terrible punishment. and i really want to focus on bristol palin's condom choices and not the actual absurd stuff you threw around but now won't acknowledge, like liberal indoctrination of schools. i'm wondering how you can make that call on schools having probably only lived in one part of the country your whole life and not being in the school system as a professional right now. but whatevs.

Quote

QuoteOK. I am not going to read this thread after this as it truly is just mental masterbation, no offense to anyone in particular.

I do not know if anyone on this board makes $250,000 or more a year. If you do not, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU BITCHING ABOUT? If Obama wins, he is promising you a tax cut. When did that become a bad thing?

I'm so sick of this shit. Whatever poeple. Vote who you want to, but vote! If you don't, you have absolutly no fucking right to bitch and complain about a damn thing in this country.

Agreed. Anyone making less than 250,000 and voting Republican could not possibly understand the platforms of the GOP.  They are delusional,  MMJfantatic is a prime example of that.

i don't agree with that. most of that money gets reinvested back into the economy ---capitalism encourages people to create, to excel--just because it doesn't affect your tax return, in the long run, it's worse for the economy (not trying to get into a debate about trickle down economics, i believe in a regressive tax system as long as it's not out of control) **but to say anyone making under 250K should be jumping for joy** just don't think that's the big picture

Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) was convicted today on seven counts of failing to report more than $250,000 in improper gifts he received from 1999 to 2006, a stunning blow to a political career that has lasted more than 40 years and marked Alaska's entire history as a part of the United States.

Stevens, 84, now faces a question over whether he will resign, and if he does not, whether he can win reelection Nov. 4 in an already tough race.

Stevens could also be sentenced to as much as five years in federal prison, although considering his age and lack of previous convictions, is unlikely to receive anywhere near the maximum sentence.

Stevens could also appeal the decision, but would likely to have to pay a heavy political price for such a move.

The conviction came after a tumultuous week in the jury room. First there were complaints about an unruly juror, then another had to be replaced when she left Washington following the death of her father. Finally, jurors on Monday discovered a discrepancy in the indictment that had been overlooked by prosecutors. Jury deliberations in this historic trial have at times been as contentious as some of the proceedings

The Justice Department indicted Stevens on July 29, and the Alaska Republican took a huge legal gamble and asked for a speedy trial in order to resolve the charges before Election Day. Judge Emmet Sullivan complied with Stevens' request, and in less than three months from the time of his indictment, Stevens was found guilty.

The verdict, which followed a month-long trial, puts into serious doubt Stevens' political career, as well as his 40-year tenure in the Senate.

Stevens was seeking a seventh full term as in the Senate – he was first appointed in 1968 – and wanted to clear his name before he had to go before voters. With today's guilty verdict, Democrat Mark Begich, Stevens' opponent, will get a huge political boost, and make it that much more likely that he will unseat Stevens.

And even if he wins reelection, Stevens could face an expulsion from the Senate. Of the four sitting senators who were convicted of crimes while in office, only one — Sen. Truman Newberry (R-Mich.) — continued to serve after being found guilty, and he was eventually hounded out of office in 1922 by senators seeking his expulsion.

The verdict was also a huge win for the Justice Department, especially Brenda Morris, the lead prosecutor in the case, and her team of lawyers and investigators. Even investigating a lawmaker of Stevens' standing and reputation was a risky proposition, much less indicting and convicting him. Justice Dept. officials, however, insist that they are willing to take on any public-corruption case, no matter who is involved, and today's verdict will certainly buttress that claim.

The heart of the government's case against Stevens centered on the nearly total overhaul of Stevens' home in Girdwood, Alaska during 2000-01. Bill Allen, a close Stevens' friend and former CEO of VECO Corp., an Alaska oil-field services company, paid for much of the renovation work and used VECO employees to carry it out. That work cost more than $180,000, and Stevens never paid for it or reported it on his annual financial disclosure forms..

But Stevens claimed he paid more than $160,000 to other contractors for the home renovation project. He also said that any VECO employees working on the remodeling were not working for VECO, but rather were employed by him.

Stevens and his wife, Catherine Stevens, said she handled the couple's finances and the senator was not closely involved in the remodeling.

After some prosecutorial missteps early in the trial that almost led to the dismissal of the charges or a mistrial, the pivotal moment in the proceedings appeared to come when Stevens and his wife took the stand. Both told disjointed stories that failed to follow a cohesive narrative, and prosecutors were able to dissect their claims during cross-examination.

Stevens, in particular, was argumentative and crotchety when questioned by prosecutors, and his testimony failed to convince the jury that he was an innocent man.
 ::) ::)

HUGE blow to the the Republican Party in hopes to avoid a SUPER MAJORITY.  

There is still room to Jump on the Obamawagon for you Republicans that want to jump off the Republican turnip truck before it goes off into the ditch.  Better hurry, you got 2 tires in the ditch already  and turnip juice on your backs. ;)  :)

Not sure if this is getting any media coverage down there, but it's seemingly everywhere here: http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2008/11/01/palin-ckoi.html

I'm no lover of McCain and especially Palin, but to his credit, McCain is a friend to Canada politically and socially wereas Obama wants to "re-examine" NAFTA, which should have everyone worried on both sides of the border.

i don't see that happening--i think his team realizes that is one of his major blunders.

Quotei don't see that happening--i think his team realizes that is one of his major blunders.

The talk hasn't gone away, at least from the newpapers I'm reading. I hope you are right.

just got my new Economist--they have officially endorsed BO---

the cover is haunting "It's Time"---my favorite cover yet.

"For all the shortcomings of the campaign, both JM and BO offer hope of national redemption. Now American has to choose between them. The Economist does not have a vote, but if it did, it would cast it for Mr. Obama. We do so wholeheartedly: the Democratic candidate has clearly shownt ath heoffers the better chance of restoring America's self confidence. But we acknowledge it's a gamble. Given BO's inexperience, the lack of clarity about some of his beliefs and the prospect of a stridently Democratic Congress, voting for him is a risk. Yet it is one America should take, given the steep road ahead."

(btw, the economist was a big supporter of McCain and concedes "he has bravely taken unpopular positions...has a long record of working with both Dems and America's allies" but goes on to say "If only the real John McCain had been running--the fiscal conservative who once tackled Bush tax cuts now proposes not just to keep the cuts, but to deepen them..the man who denounced the religious right as agents of intolerance now embraces theocratic culture warriors"....and of his choice of palin "epitomised the sloppiness-..chosen partly for her views on divisive social issues...made his choice upon having met her twice..."

anyone have predictions for the election?? -- for certain states, for popular vote, for controversy (FL?) i think BO will take Ohio/PA and McCain will end up taking NM and WV---i don't see how McCain can win w/out FL--Colorado is the holdout --i have no idea who that will turn--that state is completely split i think

Quoteanyone have predictions for the election?? -- for certain states, for popular vote, for controversy (FL?) i think BO will take Ohio/PA and McCain will end up taking NM and WV---i don't see how McCain can win w/out FL--Colorado is the holdout --i have no idea who that will turn--that state is completely split i think

I predict Alabama is to be a red state.

Quote

Quoteanyone have predictions for the election?? -- for certain states, for popular vote, for controversy (FL?) i think BO will take Ohio/PA and McCain will end up taking NM and WV---i don't see how McCain can win w/out FL--Colorado is the holdout --i have no idea who that will turn--that state is completely split i think

I predict Alabama is to be a red state.

9 votes! your boy needs more than that, bradley!  ;)

 :D

Mississippi? Texas? Uh... Tennessee?

Here's my prediction:
(http://pages.suddenlink.net/cberry47/imgs/2008prediction.jpg)
Yes Virginia, Alabama will be red (Virginia won't tho).

Virginia and Florida are gonna be close, I think.

I'm gonna be so happy when the election is over.   I'm tired of political advertising  filling up my mail box, TV ,  Radio and STOP FUCKIN  CALLIN ME AT HOME.  

I WILL  watch the election coverage,  I think I'm gonna turn on FOX news  :'( ,  just for fun.

QuoteVirginia and Florida are gonna be close, I think.

Mccain would still lose even if he won Florida and Virginia.

Is "run the table" an accurate phrase in politics?

QuoteHere's my prediction:
(http://pages.suddenlink.net/cberry47/imgs/2008prediction.jpg)
Yes Virginia, Alabama will be red (Virginia won't tho).

Check out this link, it shows how the rest of the world would vote in our election if they could: http://www.economist.com/vote2008/index.cfm?source=most_commented

Iraq is one of only four countries that voted for McCain  ;D

No matter what side of the political fence you sit on, news of Obama's grandmother dying today is very sad for many reasons.

QuoteNo matter what side of the political fence you sit on, news of Obama's grandmother dying today is very sad for many reasons.

Just saw that.  Absolutely heartbreaking.

i think VA is going blue like ohio this year---the demographics are changing there--

obama can win w/out FL, mccain cannot---am i right?

Election day tomorrow!  Yea!

Looking forward to not having to screen my calls.   Have been getting upwards of 5 political phone solicitations a day...

QuoteElection day tomorrow!  Yea!

Looking forward to not having to screen my calls.   Have been getting upwards of 5 political phone solicitations a day...

I've been getting mail from both parties. Interesting to read them, but why am I being asked to contribute money two days before election?

Am I reading this wrong or did someone vote two (or more?) times? It's just weird because the article doesn't bring attention to the fact that 21 votes were cast in a town with 20 voters.

[link=http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D947TRM00&show_article=1]Breitbart[/link] - DIXVILLE NOTCH, N.H. (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama came up a big winner in the presidential race in Dixville Notch, N.H., where the nation's first Election Day votes were cast and counted early Tuesday.

Obama defeated John McCain 15-6. Independent Ralph Nader was also on the ballot, but received no votes.

The first voter, following tradition established in 1948, was picked ahead of the midnight voting and the rest of the town's 19 registered voters followed suit in Tuesday's first minutes.

Town Clerk Rick Erwin says the northern New Hampshire town is proud of its tradition, but says the most important thing is that the turnout represents 100 percent vote.

President Bush won the vote in Dixville Notch in 2004 on the way to his re-election.

QuoteAm I reading this wrong or did someone vote two (or more?) times? It's just weird because the article doesn't bring attention to the fact that 21 votes were cast in a town with 20 voters.

[link=http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D947TRM00&show_article=1]Breitbart[/link] - DIXVILLE NOTCH, N.H. (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama came up a big winner in the presidential race in Dixville Notch, N.H., where the nation's first Election Day votes were cast and counted early Tuesday.

Obama defeated John McCain 15-6. Independent Ralph Nader was also on the ballot, but received no votes.

The first voter, following tradition established in 1948, was picked ahead of the midnight voting and the rest of the town's 19 registered voters followed suit in Tuesday's first minutes.

Town Clerk Rick Erwin says the northern New Hampshire town is proud of its tradition, but says the most important thing is that the turnout represents 100 percent vote.

President Bush won the vote in Dixville Notch in 2004 on the way to his re-election.

it seems you're correct---not sure

O is the one that is real?

Quote

QuoteAm I reading this wrong or did someone vote two (or more?) times? It's just weird because the article doesn't bring attention to the fact that 21 votes were cast in a town with 20 voters.

[link=http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D947TRM00&show_article=1]Breitbart[/link] - DIXVILLE NOTCH, N.H. (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama came up a big winner in the presidential race in Dixville Notch, N.H., where the nation's first Election Day votes were cast and counted early Tuesday.

Obama defeated John McCain 15-6. Independent Ralph Nader was also on the ballot, but received no votes.

The first voter, following tradition established in 1948, was picked ahead of the midnight voting and the rest of the town's 19 registered voters followed suit in Tuesday's first minutes.

Town Clerk Rick Erwin says the northern New Hampshire town is proud of its tradition, but says the most important thing is that the turnout represents 100 percent vote.

President Bush won the vote in Dixville Notch in 2004 on the way to his re-election.

it seems you're correct---not sure

i just asked my boss-he said he thinks they combined towns--must be where they got the extra vote lol?

Quotei think VA is going blue like ohio this year---the demographics are changing there--

obama can win w/out FL, mccain cannot---am i right?

It's hard for us Floridians to seem less important this year, but we are.  Obama does not need Florida or Ohio to win as long as Virginia and PA stay blue.  I do think that Obama will win here very narrowly.

i was thinking that McCain would take FL (old people and Cubans--don't like communism) and BO would take OH/PA/VA----NC i'm not sure of....

Obama and Biden have campaigned very hard here (as have McCain and Palin), but the fact that the Dems were willing to expend a ton of resources and campaign in areas around Tampa that they haven't even thought of recently suggests that their polling indicates they have a chance to win areas around here untouchable for the last ten years.  Lock-step Cuban support for Republicans has been slipping recently and we're not as old as we used to be.  I'll take Obama with 48% and a slim vistory here ending McCain's chances.

I'm glad we're mostly past talking about the candidates - hearing about the demographics of everyone's area and the actual voting is always much more interesting to me.

P.S. I got my free coffee for voting, today. Mmm.

QuoteObama and Biden have campaigned very hard here (as have McCain and Palin), but the fact that the Dems were willing to expend a ton of resources and campaign in areas around Tampa that they haven't even thought of recently suggests that their polling indicates they have a chance to win areas around here untouchable for the last ten years.  Lock-step Cuban support for Republicans has been slipping recently and we're not as old as we used to be.  I'll take Obama with 48% and a slim vistory here ending McCain's chances.

i hope you're right

unless palm beach gets fucked up yet again, where they still don't know how to hold an election. Fill in the arrow? Gimme a fucking break.

We're doing the best we can down here.  I've now used 3 different voting systems in 8 years.  Took me about 5 minutes to vote today and the poll worker said that it had not been busy.  That being said, early voting down here was insane and 4 hour lines were routine.

Did anyone run into any Black Panthers at their polling place?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU[/media]

QuoteDid anyone run into any Black Panthers at their polling place?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU[/media]

I saw that. A bit much...

Not at my polling place, I should say. I am an hour or so away from Philly however.

What's so scary to me is the indifference of the police... they just half-heartedly "escort" the two "gentlemen" away from the door. [link=http://www.breitbart.tv/html/213313.html]Take a look at this[/link]... They don't disarm the thugs, they don't arrest them, and worse - they turn their backs on the guys as they're walking back to the cruiser. I can't even tell if they've got a hand on their holster?

This video makes the Pennsylvania police department look very, very bad.

If that is in North Philly, I wouldn't fuck with them either.

Seriously though, as an Obama supporter, that shit bothers me. I'm sure they have no idea why they are for Obama, other than that he is (Half) black. That said, there are probably just as many people that are not voting for him for the same reason. Racism sucks, no matter which way you slice it.  :-/

He was just helpin out   ;)  Kinda like a voters concierge.

Who's afraid of a black man with a big stick ? I thought that was common knowledge    :D

I got rear ended pulling out of my polling place.  :-/

EDIT:
No puns intended!

QuoteWhat's so scary to me is the indifference of the police... they just half-heartedly "escort" the two "gentlemen" away from the door. [link=http://www.breitbart.tv/html/213313.html]Take a look at this[/link]... They don't disarm the thugs, they don't arrest them, and worse - they turn their backs on the guys as they're walking back to the cruiser. I can't even tell if they've got a hand on their holster?

This video makes the Pennsylvania police department look very, very bad.

And this post makes your lily white ass seem a bit afraid of black people. How in the world could someone 100's of miles away be more scared of a situation than the 2 officers who rolled up? You really think you have an idea how to handle that situation better than those officers? You're just some dude who's watched too many episodes of COPS. Good grief man.

There was a problem, it got solved peacefully, end of issue. I'm sure you'd have rather have some Alabama State Troopers come and beat the shit out of those colored people for being all ghetto, but life is a little different in Philly.

Now go back to being scared.

QuoteHe was just helpin out   ;)  Kinda like a voters concierge.

Who's afraid of a black man with a big stick ? I thought that was common knowledge    :D

Little Bobby Hutton would be proud...

(http://www.eco-action.org/dod/no9/bobby_hutton.jpg)

I think this cop is the one who would have done the job right to dem black panthers

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgWrV8TcUc[/media]

Quote

QuoteWhat's so scary to me is the indifference of the police... they just half-heartedly "escort" the two "gentlemen" away from the door. [link=http://www.breitbart.tv/html/213313.html]Take a look at this[/link]... They don't disarm the thugs, they don't arrest them, and worse - they turn their backs on the guys as they're walking back to the cruiser. I can't even tell if they've got a hand on their holster?

This video makes the Pennsylvania police department look very, very bad.

And this post makes your lily white ass seem a bit afraid of black people. How in the world could someone 100's of miles away be more scared of a situation than the 2 officers who rolled up? You really think you have an idea how to handle that situation better than those officers? You're just some dude who's watched too many episodes of COPS. Good grief man.

There was a problem, it got solved peacefully, end of issue. I'm sure you'd have rather have some Alabama State Troopers come and beat the shit out of those colored people for being all ghetto, but life is a little different in Philly.

Now go back to being scared.

Wow. Another classic.

Spoke about the election with my late Grandfather's brother this evening.  One of the most memorable conversations I've ever had.  So interesting to hear the thoughts of who I consider the most knowledgeable person I know.  

william ayers speaks

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/11/04/bill_ayers_speaks.html?hpid=topnews[/url]

It's a good evening for some Rage Against The Machine...

Historic evening my friends.  Wow.

QuoteHistoric evening my friends.  Wow.

The kind of things you tell your grandchildren. :)

What a truly, truly fantastic day!!!  :D :D :D :'( :'(

to answer the question:
first black president.
ZING! thank you, country.

Quoteto answer the question:
first black president.
ZING! thank you, country.

Nice! ;D

 :'(  :'( :'(

Those are tears of joy.

Quote

QuoteHistoric evening my friends.  Wow.

The kind of things you tell your grandchildren. :)

Damn!  I forgot to have kids.  Shit.

Historic night none the less.   Thrilling.

Outside of the great folks on this board, my favorite thing is that theres no bleeped out word. With that

MUTHAFUCKIN BARACK MUTHFUCKIN OBAMA IS THE NEXT PREZ MUTHAFUCKAS!!!!!

WOOHOO!!!!

not enough hate and lies to stop Obama.

God Bless America

(http://blueherald.com/uploads/Jim_Swanson/Miscellaneous/american_flag_flying.jpg)

Thumbs up for Angry!!!

(http://tubestroker.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/barack_obama.jpg)

John McCain = class act.  He's a good man.  Let's be gracious.

True. He gave a fine concession speech.  Props. But, H I S T O R Y, (as Tracy put it) is so N I C E !!!!!!!!!!

QuoteJohn McCain = class act.  He's a good man.

100%

And let's be gracious.

Rules to remember:

a) do onto others...

b) it's the right thing to do

c) we're all in this together

d) if you hate something, don't you do it too...

Haven't seen MMJ_fanatic in a little while.   ::)