My Morning Jacket

Florida Gov Crist   says prepare for the worst and pray for the best.....as much of a non FLA as I am this IS SAD SCARY SHITTY....Alaska is saying I TOLD YOU SO...All the animals and fish and everything.... :'( :'(   I'm not going to demonize big oil.  I DONT FUCKING HAVE TO !!!!! OVER 200 million gallons of crude oil is ALREADY leaked....when will you oil people QUIT FUCKING AMERICA !!!!  When will enough be enough.. If I wre Crist I would be so FUCKING MAD AT THE PRESSER THAT SOMEONES FUCKING BALLS WOULD BE IN A JAR ON THE TABLE.....I just watched this store bought ASSHOLES presser and blah blah blah....one of his cronies actually cracked a joke,no one laughed, and he said he was just trying to lighten the mood. If Crist had half a nut in his sack he'd have fired that FUCKHEAD ON THE SPOT >:(

I'm not sure what to think about this.  I've read little bits and pieces here and there but nothing I could call accurate.  the numbers I read vary in each article it seems.  

So the basic scenario is they have 3 leaks? 5,000 feet under the ocean and the fail safes failed?  

It's hard to have any positive attitude towards these oil tycoons who are absolutely some of the most horrible people to exist.  But at the same time our dependance on oil is insane.  Almost everything we use is made from oil.  Cars, Tires, Roads, Tupper wear, Shoes, etc.  Oil makes almost every machine work, whether it be to lube it up sexy or give it power.  

The bottom line is we do need oil as much as it blows.  Alaska would only last the US 6months so that's bs.  the ocean is the only place oil is left that won't cause a war.  

Sucks the marine life is getting hit so hard.  

I love the solutions they come up with.  It's like asking a 8th grade class what they would do.

1)  Lets build a giant concrete hat, and just cover it up!

if that doesn't work.....

2)  Lets build a smaller concrete hat and try that instead!

if that doesn't work.....

3)  Let's fill up a hose with bits of tire and golf balls and shoot it into the hole and hope it plugs that sumbitch up!  (I'm not kidding that's the next plan.)

if that doesn't work.....

4) Let's drill another FUCKING HOLE at an angle so the oil comes out of a different FUCKING HOLE and see if we put a cap on that pipe!

seriously?   didn't anybody think this thru?

the box solution is hilarious. professionals thought of this?? what happens when the box fills up...would the oil lift it up or would it just sit there and oil would slowly leak out around it forever? covering it doesn't solve the leak. and yeah, how is a smaller box supposed to do something that a bigger box couldn't do?

The big box DID have a pipe fitted to it for pumping the oil to a tanker but still, it seemed pretty far fetched to me.

Its clear that BP is a British company. If this had been an American company the first 3 "solutions" surely would have involved the use of explosives.

There is a hose attached to the top of the dome and is supposed to siphon the oil to the ship.  They do this at regular depths but at over a mile underwater it is completely unprecedented.  

Basically, all we're hearing right now is speculation.  Most experts aren't really saying what to expect because they have no idea - and that is scary.  

I was at the beach yesterday and it was one of nicest days I have ever seen.  Sugar white sand, crystal clear water, spanish mackeral skipping around and dolphin bobbing up and down in the distance.   But, it was kind of depressing at the same time knowing what is looming out there.

Pensacola Beach, 5/9/10.


(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs617.snc3/32473_1459916625018_1446496686_1246847_5434867_n.jpg)

so I heard on npr on the way home that they fucked up majorly by removing the mud and replacing it with sea water before they plugged the bottom and top of the holes with cement.  

apparently if they would have plugged the holes so to speak before they messed with the mud they might have been able to avoid this but they fucked themselves majorly by not taking the precaution.  one of the bits they played was of a guy from the rig or something.  He said it gave them problems from day one and that particular well "did not want to be drilled".  

greed at it's finest I guess.  plug that bitch up already.

.......is killing me inside a little bit everyday.

QuoteFlorida Gov Crist   says prepare for the worst and pray for the best.....as much of a non FLA as I am this IS SAD SCARY SHITTY....Alaska is saying I TOLD YOU SO...All the animals and fish and everything.... :'( :'(   I'm not going to demonize big oil.  I DONT FUCKING HAVE TO !!!!! OVER 200 million gallons of crude oil is ALREADY leaked....when will you oil people QUIT FUCKING AMERICA !!!!  When will enough be enough.. If I wre Crist I would be so FUCKING MAD AT THE PRESSER THAT SOMEONES FUCKING BALLS WOULD BE IN A JAR ON THE TABLE.....I just watched this store bought ASSHOLES presser and blah blah blah....one of his cronies actually cracked a joke,no one laughed, and he said he was just trying to lighten the mood. If Crist had half a nut in his sack he'd have fired that FUCKHEAD ON THE SPOT >:(

Chickens are coming home to roost! Jump in your 7.0 litre SUV's America and load up on that cheap cheap gas!

Here's my thought:

This is awful. There's no buts about it. Yes, we need oil. But it is a false dilemma to say that we need it so let's let them get it however they see best.

Calling something a failsafe is not a failsafe. The only true failsafe is having a plan B and C ready to roll.

What upsets me the most is not the price of gas or political fallout...as a tree-hugging hippie environmentalist when it comes to this shit, it's that when you undermine the ecosystem, everything else around it falls apart.

But as been pointed out, oil is part of a global market. Even if you don't import from the US or the US doesn't export it out, it still has an effect on the market. This affects everything from the price of your bacon since it's shipped via truck to the price of lightbulbs and anything involving plastics.

Weaning ourselves off of fossil powered vehicles is great, not because it will ever reduce the amount of reliance on oil, but because it will allow more of a resource to be devoted to innovation in plastics than simple combustion

This car is the beginning of that change.  Finally.  The reason it's different is because someone finally came up with a mass production plan that makes the batteries at a cost the makes sense.  

http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index#/leaf-electric-car/index

QuoteThis car is the beginning of that change.  Finally.  The reason it's different is because someone finally came up with a mass production plan that makes the batteries at a cost the makes sense.  

http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index#/leaf-electric-car/index

If that is the future of cars, I better get my bike tuned up.

the problem is they aren't making electric cars that look nice- they are making them look like shitty little shit shits.  Audi is making an electric car, http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/01/audis-electric-car-gets-even-hotter/ , there is also an electric sports car that's by Tesla http://www.teslamotors.com/buy/buyshowroom.php ... but not everyone can afford those.  We need an affordable car that looks good that also runs on electricity... how hard could it possibly be?

QuotePensacola Beach, 5/9/10.


(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs617.snc3/32473_1459916625018_1446496686_1246847_5434867_n.jpg)

Brother, that just killed me.  Pensacola Beach means more to me than any other place in the world and that picture just flooded me with memories.

It kind of feels like that book "On the Beach"  we're just helplessly waiting for the end and trying to act normal.

Quotethe problem is they aren't making electric cars that look nice- they are making them look like shitty little shit shits.  Audi is making an electric car, http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/01/audis-electric-car-gets-even-hotter/ , there is also an electric sports car that's by Tesla http://www.teslamotors.com/buy/buyshowroom.php ... but not everyone can afford those.  We need an affordable car that looks good that also runs on electricity... how hard could it possibly be?

That first Audi looks badass

But youre right on for the most part...The first time I saw a Smart Car I lost it and just thought WTF would buy this POS?!!

Quotethe problem is they aren't making electric cars that look nice- they are making them look like shitty little shit shits.  Audi is making an electric car, http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/01/audis-electric-car-gets-even-hotter/ , there is also an electric sports car that's by Tesla http://www.teslamotors.com/buy/buyshowroom.php ... but not everyone can afford those.  We need an affordable car that looks good that also runs on electricity... how hard could it possibly be?

Watch this movie!
http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/
We had it in our hands, but fucking dropped it. >:(

Quote.......is killing me inside a little bit everyday.

I feel the same way.  This hasn't even really begun yet.  And to think that it could take 10-12 years to get this right is scary.   :'(

Quotethe problem is they aren't making electric cars that look nice- they are making them look like shitty little shit shits.  Audi is making an electric car, http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/01/audis-electric-car-gets-even-hotter/ , there is also an electric sports car that's by Tesla http://www.teslamotors.com/buy/buyshowroom.php ... but not everyone can afford those.  We need an affordable car that looks good that also runs on electricity... how hard could it possibly be?

I would have driven the EV1.

The Chevy Volt doesn't look too bad, especially considering the last decade or so of GM design.

The VW Up! concepts are good looking, but would probably fail here in the US because no one wants small cars.

It really is ridiculous what we consider "small" these days. I recently bought the 6th generation VW Golf. Its a 3-door hatch, and most people that see it note how small it is on the outside. I'm 6'1" and have plenty of room on the inside. This 6th generation is 20 inches longer, 7 inches wider, 4 inches taller, and 1500 pounds (nearly double!) heavier than its first generation. Just think of the fuel we could save if we could shed just 15-20% of every car's weight.

Sorry to turn this thread from one of environmental concern to one of auto design.  :-/

Also, on the "Smart" brand of vehicles. The Smart fortwo gets absolutely terrible MPG (45 combined) considering its miniscule engine capacity and size. I can get similar MPG from a Civic Hybrid or a Jetta TDI and have more room, more fun, and not look like an eliteist d-bag driving down the road, not to mention saving a few thousand bucks.

I'm not sold of the electric car being the complete solution.  not unless wind/solar/maybe water energy is harnessed first.  If a big percentage of people had electronic cars right now the energy costs with the electrical companies would probably be ridiculous wouldn't it?

It seems like unless we change the entire system switching over to electric cars isn't going to do much.  plus we still need oil to build electric cars right?

oil is pretty much as important as fresh water is in the united states.  

I think water is actually more per gallon than oil is.  but alas I'm just pull numbers out of my ass now.  I hope they hurry their asses up with the technology.  2050 it's predicted 50percent of ocean life will be extincted if trends continue.  by 2025 kids will be less intelligent than they were in the 90's.  I don't really dig where things are heading socially or economically right now.  it's pretty scary to be honest.  It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out over the next couple decades.

QuoteI'm not sold of the electric car being the complete solution.  not unless wind/solar/maybe water energy is harnessed first.  If a big percentage of people had electronic cars right now the energy costs with the electrical companies would probably be ridiculous wouldn't it?

It seems like unless we change the entire system switching over to electric cars isn't going to do much.  plus we still need oil to build electric cars right?

oil is pretty much as important as fresh water is in the united states.  

I think water is actually more per gallon than oil is.  but alas I'm just pull numbers out of my ass now.  I hope they hurry their asses up with the technology. 2050 it's predicted 50percent of ocean life will be extincted if trends continue.  by 2025 kids will be less intelligent than they were in the 90's.  I don't really dig where things are heading socially or economically right now.  it's pretty scary to be honest.  It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out over the next couple decades.

What trends? Global warming?

I think kids are already less intelligent than they were in the 90's

Quote

QuoteI'm not sold of the electric car being the complete solution.  not unless wind/solar/maybe water energy is harnessed first.  If a big percentage of people had electronic cars right now the energy costs with the electrical companies would probably be ridiculous wouldn't it?

It seems like unless we change the entire system switching over to electric cars isn't going to do much.  plus we still need oil to build electric cars right?

oil is pretty much as important as fresh water is in the united states.  

I think water is actually more per gallon than oil is.  but alas I'm just pull numbers out of my ass now.  I hope they hurry their asses up with the technology. 2050 it's predicted 50percent of ocean life will be extincted if trends continue.  by 2025 kids will be less intelligent than they were in the 90's.  I don't really dig where things are heading socially or economically right now.  it's pretty scary to be honest.  It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out over the next couple decades.

What trends? Global warming?

I think kids are already less intelligent than they were in the 90's

trends as in, if we continue life exactly as it is now they are predicting huge losses in ocean life by 2050.  I'm sure it will be a gradual thing.  Global Warming, whatever you want to call it, CO2 emissions, etc.  pissing into the atmosphere, ocean, and earth with endless chemicals is bound to have some kind of consequence.  Even people who don't believe in global warming should at least be able to accept the fact that our population is growing out of control and that is having a serious effect on the amount of pollutants in the air.  

You all seem to have this stuff figured out a lot better than I, deforestation, etc I don't know I think we're past the point of no return in some ways but not in others.  People standing in the way of funding these things are fucking our future kids over big time.

QuoteI'm not sold of the electric car being the complete solution.  not unless wind/solar/maybe water energy is harnessed first.  If a big percentage of people had electronic cars right now the energy costs with the electrical companies would probably be ridiculous wouldn't it?

It seems like unless we change the entire system switching over to electric cars isn't going to do much.  plus we still need oil to build electric cars right?

oil is pretty much as important as fresh water is in the united states.  

I think water is actually more per gallon than oil is.

Water more expensive than oil? I can get water from my tap for about 5 cents a gallon. I can get distilled water from Acme for 95 cents a gallon, which includes the petroleum-based container. Today light sweet crude is at about $77 dollars/barrel (159 liters). Thats about $1.83 per gallon of crude.

I agree that electic vehicles are not the solution. We will need to drastically increase our production of electricity. That means, Hydro, wind, solar (ha!), but mostly COAL and OIL... and with deregulation watch your electricity bills spike in the coming year or so.

Even if tomorrow everyone traded in their gas cars for electric, we would still need oil to lubricate the parts of the car, the parts of the machines that built the car, and gas or diesel for the trucks that brought the car to the dealership, and if you've imported, the fuel for the ship that brought it from Asia or Europe.

The electric car is far from a solution, its just an option.

Quote

QuoteI'm not sold of the electric car being the complete solution.  not unless wind/solar/maybe water energy is harnessed first.  If a big percentage of people had electronic cars right now the energy costs with the electrical companies would probably be ridiculous wouldn't it?

It seems like unless we change the entire system switching over to electric cars isn't going to do much.  plus we still need oil to build electric cars right?

oil is pretty much as important as fresh water is in the united states.  

I think water is actually more per gallon than oil is.

Water more expensive than oil? I can get water from my tap for about 5 cents a gallon. I can get distilled water from Acme for 95 cents a gallon, which includes the petroleum-based container. Today light sweet crude is at about $77 dollars/barrel (159 liters). Thats about $1.83 per gallon of crude.

I agree that electic vehicles are not the solution. We will need to drastically increase our production of electricity. That means, Hydro, wind, solar (ha!), but mostly COAL and OIL... and with deregulation watch your electricity bills spike in the coming year or so.

Even if tomorrow everyone traded in their gas cars for electric, we would still need oil to lubricate the parts of the car, the parts of the machines that built the car, and gas or diesel for the trucks that brought the car to the dealership, and if you've imported, the fuel for the ship that brought it from Asia or Europe.

The electric car is far from a solution, its just an option.

not to mention the oil needed to run the electric generators to charge the electric car

Quote

QuoteI'm not sold of the electric car being the complete solution.  not unless wind/solar/maybe water energy is harnessed first.  If a big percentage of people had electronic cars right now the energy costs with the electrical companies would probably be ridiculous wouldn't it?

It seems like unless we change the entire system switching over to electric cars isn't going to do much.  plus we still need oil to build electric cars right?

oil is pretty much as important as fresh water is in the united states.  

I think water is actually more per gallon than oil is.

Water more expensive than oil? I can get water from my tap for about 5 cents a gallon. I can get distilled water from Acme for 95 cents a gallon, which includes the petroleum-based container. Today light sweet crude is at about $77 dollars/barrel (159 liters). Thats about $1.83 per gallon of crude.

I agree that electic vehicles are not the solution. We will need to drastically increase our production of electricity. That means, Hydro, wind, solar (ha!), but mostly COAL and OIL... and with deregulation watch your electricity bills spike in the coming year or so.

Even if tomorrow everyone traded in their gas cars for electric, we would still need oil to lubricate the parts of the car, the parts of the machines that built the car, and gas or diesel for the trucks that brought the car to the dealership, and if you've imported, the fuel for the ship that brought it from Asia or Europe.

The electric car is far from a solution, its just an option.

I only drink Fiji water.  It's made from melted glacier ice.  Shit is top shelf son, 3bones aint no joke.  

question: why does the president keep acting like clean coal is a real?  nobody has any idea how to make it feasible to process "clean" coal right?

Quote

Quote

QuoteI'm not sold of the electric car being the complete solution.  not unless wind/solar/maybe water energy is harnessed first.  If a big percentage of people had electronic cars right now the energy costs with the electrical companies would probably be ridiculous wouldn't it?

It seems like unless we change the entire system switching over to electric cars isn't going to do much.  plus we still need oil to build electric cars right?

oil is pretty much as important as fresh water is in the united states.  

I think water is actually more per gallon than oil is.

Water more expensive than oil? I can get water from my tap for about 5 cents a gallon. I can get distilled water from Acme for 95 cents a gallon, which includes the petroleum-based container. Today light sweet crude is at about $77 dollars/barrel (159 liters). Thats about $1.83 per gallon of crude.

I agree that electic vehicles are not the solution. We will need to drastically increase our production of electricity. That means, Hydro, wind, solar (ha!), but mostly COAL and OIL... and with deregulation watch your electricity bills spike in the coming year or so.

Even if tomorrow everyone traded in their gas cars for electric, we would still need oil to lubricate the parts of the car, the parts of the machines that built the car, and gas or diesel for the trucks that brought the car to the dealership, and if you've imported, the fuel for the ship that brought it from Asia or Europe.

The electric car is far from a solution, its just an option.

not to mention the oil needed to run the electric generators to charge the electric car

Exactly. Once you find a solution for one set, you find another issue. We don't need to eliminate the use of oil, because we can't. Conservation/consumption of all energy should be on the forefront, not this utopian idea of an oil-free existance.

back to the problem everyone was talking about cut your hair folks!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8674539.stm

Quote

Quote

QuoteI'm not sold of the electric car being the complete solution.  not unless wind/solar/maybe water energy is harnessed first.  If a big percentage of people had electronic cars right now the energy costs with the electrical companies would probably be ridiculous wouldn't it?

It seems like unless we change the entire system switching over to electric cars isn't going to do much.  plus we still need oil to build electric cars right?

oil is pretty much as important as fresh water is in the united states.  

I think water is actually more per gallon than oil is.

Water more expensive than oil? I can get water from my tap for about 5 cents a gallon. I can get distilled water from Acme for 95 cents a gallon, which includes the petroleum-based container. Today light sweet crude is at about $77 dollars/barrel (159 liters). Thats about $1.83 per gallon of crude.

I agree that electic vehicles are not the solution. We will need to drastically increase our production of electricity. That means, Hydro, wind, solar (ha!), but mostly COAL and OIL... and with deregulation watch your electricity bills spike in the coming year or so.

Even if tomorrow everyone traded in their gas cars for electric, we would still need oil to lubricate the parts of the car, the parts of the machines that built the car, and gas or diesel for the trucks that brought the car to the dealership, and if you've imported, the fuel for the ship that brought it from Asia or Europe.

The electric car is far from a solution, its just an option.

I only drink Fiji water.  It's made from melted glacier ice.  Shit is top shelf son, 3bones aint no joke.  

question: why does the president keep acting like clean coal is a real?  nobody has any idea how to make it feasible to process "clean" coal right?

AMERICA: FUCK YEAH!

Contrary to popular belief, our President is not a scientist.

four MILLION gallons.

how does one even begin to comprehend this disaster?

Quotefour MILLION gallons.

how does one even begin to comprehend this disaster?

get some fish and a duck, put them in a metal tub.  poor 1 gallon of oil on them.  multiply by four million?  the gulf of mexico is turning into one gigantic toilet.

Quote

Quote

Quote

QuoteI'm not sold of the electric car being the complete solution.  not unless wind/solar/maybe water energy is harnessed first.  If a big percentage of people had electronic cars right now the energy costs with the electrical companies would probably be ridiculous wouldn't it?

It seems like unless we change the entire system switching over to electric cars isn't going to do much.  plus we still need oil to build electric cars right?

oil is pretty much as important as fresh water is in the united states.  

I think water is actually more per gallon than oil is.

Water more expensive than oil? I can get water from my tap for about 5 cents a gallon. I can get distilled water from Acme for 95 cents a gallon, which includes the petroleum-based container. Today light sweet crude is at about $77 dollars/barrel (159 liters). Thats about $1.83 per gallon of crude.

I agree that electic vehicles are not the solution. We will need to drastically increase our production of electricity. That means, Hydro, wind, solar (ha!), but mostly COAL and OIL... and with deregulation watch your electricity bills spike in the coming year or so.

Even if tomorrow everyone traded in their gas cars for electric, we would still need oil to lubricate the parts of the car, the parts of the machines that built the car, and gas or diesel for the trucks that brought the car to the dealership, and if you've imported, the fuel for the ship that brought it from Asia or Europe.

The electric car is far from a solution, its just an option.

not to mention the oil needed to run the electric generators to charge the electric car

Exactly. Once you find a solution for one set, you find another issue. We don't need to eliminate the use of oil, because we can't. Conservation/consumption of all energy should be on the forefront, not this utopian idea of an oil-free existance.

Electric plants usually run on coal and they are MUCH cleaner and MUCH more fuel efficient than internal combustion engines.

Here is my favorite (affordable) electric car for looks and performance but it's a little bit farther away......

The Fiat 500 Electric

(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/03/22/automobiles/wheels-Fiat-500-electric/wheels-Fiat-500-electric-blogSpan.jpg)

And my favorite money no object electric car....

(http://www.globalmotors.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/fisker-karma.jpg)

I realize the Nissan is ugly.  But who cares?  It's a point a to point b commuter car.  Buy a 69 camaro for the weekends right?  If you think the Nissan is ugly, take a look at a pelican covered in oil.  That's ugly.

Quote

I realize the Nissan is ugly.  But who cares?  It's a point a to point b commuter car.  Buy a 69 camaro for the weekends right?  If you think the Nissan is ugly, take a look at a pelican covered in oil.  That's ugly.

Amen brother

Quote
I realize the Nissan is ugly.  But who cares?  It's a point a to point b commuter car.  Buy a 69 camaro for the weekends right?  If you think the Nissan is ugly, take a look at a pelican covered in oil.  That's ugly.

Right on.  Aesthetics are the least of our worries at this point.

Capitalism and greed is what made this nation great, but I fear capitalism and greed is what will lead to the planet's demise. We're but a blip on the ass of eternity...

(http://www.foghat.com/fog_band/timeline.gif)

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

QuoteI'm not sold of the electric car being the complete solution.  not unless wind/solar/maybe water energy is harnessed first.  If a big percentage of people had electronic cars right now the energy costs with the electrical companies would probably be ridiculous wouldn't it?

It seems like unless we change the entire system switching over to electric cars isn't going to do much.  plus we still need oil to build electric cars right?

oil is pretty much as important as fresh water is in the united states.  

I think water is actually more per gallon than oil is.

Water more expensive than oil? I can get water from my tap for about 5 cents a gallon. I can get distilled water from Acme for 95 cents a gallon, which includes the petroleum-based container. Today light sweet crude is at about $77 dollars/barrel (159 liters). Thats about $1.83 per gallon of crude.

I agree that electic vehicles are not the solution. We will need to drastically increase our production of electricity. That means, Hydro, wind, solar (ha!), but mostly COAL and OIL... and with deregulation watch your electricity bills spike in the coming year or so.

Even if tomorrow everyone traded in their gas cars for electric, we would still need oil to lubricate the parts of the car, the parts of the machines that built the car, and gas or diesel for the trucks that brought the car to the dealership, and if you've imported, the fuel for the ship that brought it from Asia or Europe.

The electric car is far from a solution, its just an option.

not to mention the oil needed to run the electric generators to charge the electric car

Exactly. Once you find a solution for one set, you find another issue. We don't need to eliminate the use of oil, because we can't. Conservation/consumption of all energy should be on the forefront, not this utopian idea of an oil-free existance.

Electric plants usually run on coal and they are MUCH cleaner and MUCH more fuel efficient than internal combustion engines.

Here is my favorite (affordable) electric car for looks and performance but it's a little bit farther away......

The Fiat 500 Electric

(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/03/22/automobiles/wheels-Fiat-500-electric/wheels-Fiat-500-electric-blogSpan.jpg)

And my favorite money no object electric car....

(http://www.globalmotors.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/fisker-karma.jpg)

I realize the Nissan is ugly.  But who cares?  It's a point a to point b commuter car.  Buy a 69 camaro for the weekends right?  If you think the Nissan is ugly, take a look at a pelican covered in oil.  That's ugly.

You know what's uglier than an oil covered pelican? An injured or dead coal miner.

You know what's pretty?

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2079/2245399905_01a4903a0d.jpg)

I'm sure they have their drawbacks too, but it's a start.

QuoteYou know what's pretty?

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2079/2245399905_01a4903a0d.jpg)

I'm sure they have their drawbacks too, but it's a start.

Quite a beautiful site, too, saw a bunch of wind farms in Cali when I was there 2 years ago, impressive to say the least.

Quote

QuoteYou know what's pretty?

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2079/2245399905_01a4903a0d.jpg)

I'm sure they have their drawbacks too, but it's a start.

Quite a beautiful site, too, saw a bunch of wind farms in Cali when I was there 2 years ago, impressive to say the least.

Drive through NW Iowa, it's actually quite scenic.

We passed a bunch in central Illinois last week.  It's really a striking sight.

I suppose they could be viewed as a blight on the landscape too, but I thought they looked pretty cool.

Quote

QuotePensacola Beach, 5/9/10.


(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs617.snc3/32473_1459916625018_1446496686_1246847_5434867_n.jpg)

Brother, that just killed me.  Pensacola Beach means more to me than any other place in the world and that picture just flooded me with memories.

It kind of feels like that book "On the Beach"  we're just helplessly waiting for the end and trying to act normal.

I hear ya.  Here's a few more for you.  First one is the same day, some punk kid jumped in the way of the camera:

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs657.snc3/32473_1459916545016_1446496686_1246845_794526_n.jpg)

These two are the weekend before, very hazy and overcast.  At that point, we thought it would be washing ashore at any time so we just wanted to get out there.  These are from the new pier, that thing is a monster:

(http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs617.snc3/32473_1459916145006_1446496686_1246838_6284782_n.jpg)

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs557.ash1/32473_1459916225008_1446496686_1246840_6588014_n.jpg)

jon your boy is TOO damn cute.

(http://boldt.us/8586-2/who_needs_oil_ride_the_bus_fail)

Quotejon your boy is TOO damn cute.

Thanks, BH!  I think so, too!

On a side note, I'm not exactly sure what the "selection process" involves, but I just got selected to be part of the "Wildlife Recovery and Rehabilitation" team.  There is a six hour, graded certification course Friday night.  I guess after that I'm a certified Park Ranger?  ;D

QuoteWe passed a bunch in central Illinois last week.  It's really a striking sight.

I suppose they could be viewed as a blight on the landscape too, but I thought they looked pretty cool.

I flew over a windmill farm in central Illinois on my way to Oshkosh, Wisconsin last year (possibly the same one not too far from Bloomington or Champaign?) and it was pretty impressive.  

Only thing was, on that day, they weren't turning.

It looks like there are three in central IL from Horizon Wind Energy LLC:




(http://www.horizonwind.com/projects/whatwevedone/images/HorizonFootprintMap_lg.gif)

Quote

Quotejon your boy is TOO damn cute.

Thanks, BH!  I think so, too!

On a side note, I'm not exactly sure what the "selection process" involves, but I just got selected to be part of the "Wildlife Recovery and Rehabilitation" team.  There is a six hour, graded certification course Friday night.  I guess after that I'm a certified Park Ranger?  ;D

Yea man, you kid is getting big.  Amazing pictures here:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/disaster_unfolds_slowly_in_the.html

Quote

Quote

Quotejon your boy is TOO damn cute.

Thanks, BH!  I think so, too!

On a side note, I'm not exactly sure what the "selection process" involves, but I just got selected to be part of the "Wildlife Recovery and Rehabilitation" team.  There is a six hour, graded certification course Friday night.  I guess after that I'm a certified Park Ranger?  ;D

Yea man, you kid is getting big.  Amazing pictures here:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/disaster_unfolds_slowly_in_the.html

who wants to go for a swim?

(http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/oilspill_05_12/o01_23334333.jpg)

(http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/oilspill_05_12/o23_23313163.jpg)

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quotejon your boy is TOO damn cute.

Thanks, BH!  I think so, too!

On a side note, I'm not exactly sure what the "selection process" involves, but I just got selected to be part of the "Wildlife Recovery and Rehabilitation" team.  There is a six hour, graded certification course Friday night.  I guess after that I'm a certified Park Ranger?  ;D

Yea man, you kid is getting big.  Amazing pictures here:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/disaster_unfolds_slowly_in_the.html

who wants to go for a swim?

(http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/oilspill_05_12/o01_23334333.jpg)

(http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/oilspill_05_12/o23_23313163.jpg)

That makes my soul ache.

Drill baby drill.

QuoteDrill baby drill.

What's the point of this?  :-/

It is sickening and scary.

BP blaming Haliburton...things that make you go hmmmmmm

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-gulf-oil-testimony,0,214192.story?track=rss

QuoteIt is sickening and scary.

BP blaming Haliburton...things that make you go hmmmmmm

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-gulf-oil-testimony,0,214192.story?track=rss

I blame BP for working with Halliburton it's their own fault.  BP contracted the shit.  They are responsible and they better come to terms with that very quickly.  The sad thing is, is you have these multi-millionaires all sitting on the stand playing the blame game when it probably wouldn't hurt any of their pockets to just fix the fucking problem.  Instead of trying these cheap, random, "maybe it will work" ideas they should just drop the cash it costs to fix the fucking thing and cut their losses.  Then again they are probably still harvesting that oil from the sea which is probably another reason they are taking so long.  

QuoteIt is sickening and scary.

BP blaming Haliburton...things that make you go hmmmmmm

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-gulf-oil-testimony,0,214192.story?track=rss

BP, i don't care who's fault this was, just... fix it?

:-?

Quote

QuoteDrill baby drill.

What's the point of this?  :-/

Irony.

(http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2010/05/gulf_of_mexico_oil_spill.jpg)

Quote

Quote

QuoteDrill baby drill.

What's the point of this?  :-/

Irony.

(http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2010/05/gulf_of_mexico_oil_spill.jpg)

Apologies.

I remember the first time I saw a map like that I was floored.  I live on the Gulf Coast and had always just assumed there were a "few" platforms out there.   Unbelievable

good grief. I didn't realize there were drilling that f'n much.

Don't we have the hydrogen fuel cell tech now, Can't we get off this oil shit?

this makes me sick
:'(

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=2

Quotehttp://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=2

>:( >:( >:( >:( >:(nice

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/diving-gulfs-toxic-soup-10735329

Quotehttp://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/diving-gulfs-toxic-soup-10735329

I'm so fucking tired of hearing about this oil leak.  I'm even more tired of hearing people blame each other.  Regardless of whom is responsible it's an absolute travesty that we haven't gone in there with some subs or something and fix that shit roboticly.  simple as that.  deep water robots.  BP can suck it, they need to not exist after this shit is over.

Got greed?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/26/bp-reveals-crucial-mistake-oil/

No one (the media) seems to care about the eleven people who died in the explosion.

This story makes my blood boil:


Screw the Environment: BP and the Audacity of Corporate Greed

by Dave Lindorff

This Can't Be Happening


May 23, 2010
Even as BP's blown well a mile beneath the surface in the Gulf of Mexico continues to gush forth an estimated 70,000 barrels of oil a day into the sea, and the fragile wetlands along the Gulf begin to get coated with crude, which is also headed into the Gulf Stream for a trip past the Everglades and on up the East Coast, the company is demanding that Canada lift its tight rules for drilling in the icy Beaufort Sea portion of the Arctic Ocean.

In an incredible display of corporate arrogance, BP is claiming that a current safety requirement that undersea wells drilled during the newly ice-free summer must also include a side relief well, so as to have a preventive measure in place that could shut down a blown well, is "too expensive" and should be eliminated.

Yet clearly, if the US had had such a provision in place, the Deepwater Horizon blowout could have been shut down right almost immediately after it blew out, just by turning of a valve or two, and then sealing off the blown wellhead.

A relief well is "too expensive"?

The current Gulf blowout has already cost BP over half a billion dollars, according to the company's own information. That doesn't count the cost of mobilizing the Coast Guard, the Navy, and untold state and county resources, and it sure doesn't count the cost of the damage to the Gulf Coast economy, or the cost of restoration of damaged wetlands. We're talking at least $10s of billions, and maybe eventually $100s of billions. Weigh that against the cost of drilling a relief well, which BP claims will run about $100 million. The cost of such a well in the Arctic, where the sea is much shallower, would likely be a good deal less.

Such is the calculus of corruption. BP has paid $1.8 billion for drilling rights in Canada's sector of the Beaufort Sea, about 150 miles north of the Northwest Territories coastline, an area which global warming has freed of ice in summer months. and it wants to drill there as cheaply as possible. The problem is that a blowout like the one that struck the Deepwater Horizon, if it occurred near the middle or end of summer, would mean it would be impossible for the oil company to drill a relief well until the following summer, because the return of ice floes would make drilling impossible all winter. That would mean an undersea wild well would be left to spew its contents out under the ice for perhaps eight or nine months, where its ecological havoc would be incalculable.

BP and other oil companies like Exxon/Mobil and Shell, which also have leases in Arctic Waters off Canada and the US, are actually trying to claim that the environmental risks of a spill in Arctic waters are less than in places like the Gulf of Mexico or the Eastern Seaboard, because the ice would "contain" any leaking oil, allowing it to be cleared away. The argument is laughable.

This is not like pouring a can of 10W-40 oil into an ice-fishing hole on a solidly frozen pond, where you could scoop it out again without its going anywhere. Unlike the surface of a frozen pond, Arctic sea ice is in constant motion, cracking and drifting in response to winds, tides and currents. Moreover, the blowout in the Gulf has taught us that much of the oil leaked into the sea doesn't even rise to the surface at all. It is cracked and emulsified by contact with the cold waters and stays submerged in the lower currents, wreaking its damage far from wellhead and recovery efforts.

Finally, as difficult a time as BP has had rounding up the necessary containment equipment and personnel in the current blowout 50 miles from the oil industry mecca of Texas and Louisiana, the same task would be far harder to accomplish in the remote reaches of the Beaufort, far above the Arctic Circle, where there aren't any roads, much less rail lines or airports.

In fact, it was the remoteness of the Arctic staging area, and the lack of infrastructure, that has been the oil industry's main argument against a mandatory simultaneous relief well drilling requirement for offshore Arctic drilling. The industry claims it would be "too difficult" to drill two wells simultaneously, as this would require bring in and supplying double the personnel, and two separate drilling rigs.

In a hearing in Canada's Parliament last week, Ann Drinkwater, president of BP Canada, told stunned and incredulous members of Parliament that she had never compared US and Canadian drilling regulations. In fact, whether by design or appalling ignorance, she had precious little in the way of information to offer them about anything to do with drilling rules, effects of spills, or containment strategems. All she wanted was relief from "expensive" regulation, so BP could go about its business of putting yet another region of the earth and its seas at risk in the pursuit of profits.

Asked if BP knew how it would clean up oil spilling out under the winter ice in a blowout, Drinkwater told the parliamentary hearing, "I'm not an expert in oil-spill techniques in an Arctic environment, so I would have to defer to other experts on that."

"You'd think coming to a hearing like this that British Petroleum would have as many answers as possible to assure the Canadian public. We got nothing today from them," groused Nathan Cullen of the left-leaning New Democrats, after hearing from the ironically named Drinkwater.

The fundamental problem in the US is that politicians purchased by campaign contributions are unwilling to look at the real risks of offshore drilling, whether on the two coasts or up in the Arctic region. With luck, maybe at least the Canadian government will conclude that such drilling in their northern seas makes no economic or environmental sense. In both countries, the amount of oil provided from offshore drilling would, over the next decade, be less than could be saved by simply making automobile mileage standards stricter.

All this is even more true when the drilling in question is in the fragile ecological environs of the Arctic Ocean.

This is a pretty good summary of what's going on if anyone is interested.  Although it does look like its from BP's PR department.

http://jalopnik.com/5548376/will-bps-top-kill-process-work

QuoteThis is a pretty good summary of what's going on if anyone is interested.  Although it does look like its from BP's PR department.

http://jalopnik.com/5548376/will-bps-top-kill-process-work

One of my favorite blogs.

We should know soon if this will work. If not theyre going to try to stuff it with trash.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704717004575268302434395796.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_news

I really hate this thread..... :-X :-/

these photos made me cry

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/oil_reaches_louisiana_shores.html

(http://i.imgur.com/P0qkj.jpg)

Click this link if you feel like being depressed (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/06/caught_in_the_oil.html)

I am crying.  This is so fucking wrong.  Stop trying to save the oil and cap the bitch.  I think a few BP execs would plug the hole just fine.  I hate that the keys I'm pounding are made from petroleum.  FUCK!

Looks like the cap they put in place tonite has partially contained it. It's siphoning off some of the flow, but they've got some seeping out through the sides.

Latest thing I've read is that they're now going to reverse the top-kill mechanism to siphon more out.

If this fails, the failed cut of the pipe the other day has actually caused a 20% increase in output

QuoteClick this link if you feel like being depressed (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/06/caught_in_the_oil.html)

looks like something out of a horror film...so unfuckingbelievable

Quote

QuoteClick this link if you feel like being depressed (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/06/caught_in_the_oil.html)

looks like something out of a horror film...so unfuckingbelievable

Here's some honey to that vinegar:

http://ibrrc.org/

One of the leading orgs cleaning them up. Apparently many of the birds in the images like those one above have been cleaned and saved by these guys. I think the birds we saw above were in fact saved by the group, but don't quote me on it.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKcrDaiGE2s&feature=player_embedded[/media]

JonT - how bad is it?

Finally, some potential ramifications for BP beyond just the spill:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aUEvCDKBmN.k&pos=4

Quote[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKcrDaiGE2s&feature=player_embedded[/media]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_xbZMQCfqo

QuoteJonT - how bad is it?

Bad.  The worst hasn't even gotten here yet.

http://www.pnj.com/article/20100615/NEWS01/6150314/Booms-haven-t-kept-oil-out-of-bay-sound

Quote

QuoteJonT - how bad is it?

Bad.  The worst hasn't even gotten here yet.

http://www.pnj.com/article/20100615/NEWS01/6150314/Booms-haven-t-kept-oil-out-of-bay-sound

Are they discussing the effects of a hurricane or even TS down there with all this, or is that the "let's not think about that until it happens" scenario?

Quote

QuoteJonT - how bad is it?

Bad.  The worst hasn't even gotten here yet.

http://www.pnj.com/article/20100615/NEWS01/6150314/Booms-haven-t-kept-oil-out-of-bay-sound

This kills me.  They still keep feeding us a bunch of horseshit about how the loop current is going to keep the oil away from us - I have to say that I'm not a believer.  Have you noticed how hot it is?  It always seems that when it so hot so early our little tropical friends tend to visit us with more frequency.  I saw somebody trying to sell hurricanes as a blessing in this whole mess; I guess we'll see.

Quote

Quote

QuoteJonT - how bad is it?

Bad.  The worst hasn't even gotten here yet.

http://www.pnj.com/article/20100615/NEWS01/6150314/Booms-haven-t-kept-oil-out-of-bay-sound

Are they discussing the effects of a hurricane or even TS down there with all this, or is that the "let's not think about that until it happens" scenario?

It's definitely on everyone's mind.  Not sure there is anything that can be done, though.  It can't even be contained right now while the weather is good.  There WILL be hurricanes and TS's in the Gulf; that's a given.  It's just a matter of where.  It's not going to pretty.

Not sure if you could open that link.  It was basically saying how oil has made it into the bay and sound and even into Little Sabine.  I have some friends that live on Little Sabine.  They said they called to report some oil and that a crew showed up within half an hour to clean it up.

Quote

Quote

Quote

QuoteJonT - how bad is it?

Bad.  The worst hasn't even gotten here yet.

http://www.pnj.com/article/20100615/NEWS01/6150314/Booms-haven-t-kept-oil-out-of-bay-sound

Are they discussing the effects of a hurricane or even TS down there with all this, or is that the "let's not think about that until it happens" scenario?

It's definitely on everyone's mind.  Not sure there is anything that can be done, though.  It can't even be contained right now while the weather is good.  There WILL be hurricanes and TS's in the Gulf; that's a given.  It's just a matter of where.  It's not going to pretty.

Not sure if you could open that link.  It was basically saying how oil has made it into the bay and sound and even into Little Sabine.  I have some friends that live on Little Sabine.  They said they called to report some oil and that a crew showed up within half an hour to clean it up.

I just found out a friend's girlfriend went down there. She's part of a gov't program that does humanitarian work, mainly in Haiti and the Gulf post-katrina. I'm hoping to see some pictures.

In an unrelated musing...I'm wondering what climatological effect this will have. Does the oil make it harder for water to evaporate, causing less moisture in the air, resulting in less humidity and less convection? If so, how is that going to affect tropical systems as far as storms, or just the climate regionally in disrupting necessary weather patterns.

On the flip side, will this "darker" area cause an increase in water temperature or increase in evaporation, making it more humid and more stormy?

Though I've read that from the ISS, the oil actually appears as WHITE because it reflects so much light, so maybe it'll cool shit down?

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

QuoteJonT - how bad is it?

Bad.  The worst hasn't even gotten here yet.

http://www.pnj.com/article/20100615/NEWS01/6150314/Booms-haven-t-kept-oil-out-of-bay-sound

Are they discussing the effects of a hurricane or even TS down there with all this, or is that the "let's not think about that until it happens" scenario?

It's definitely on everyone's mind.  Not sure there is anything that can be done, though.  It can't even be contained right now while the weather is good.  There WILL be hurricanes and TS's in the Gulf; that's a given.  It's just a matter of where.  It's not going to pretty.

Not sure if you could open that link.  It was basically saying how oil has made it into the bay and sound and even into Little Sabine.  I have some friends that live on Little Sabine.  They said they called to report some oil and that a crew showed up within half an hour to clean it up.

I just found out a friend's girlfriend went down there. She's part of a gov't program that does humanitarian work, mainly in Haiti and the Gulf post-katrina. I'm hoping to see some pictures.

In an unrelated musing...I'm wondering what climatological effect this will have. Does the oil make it harder for water to evaporate, causing less moisture in the air, resulting in less humidity and less convection? If so, how is that going to affect tropical systems as far as storms, or just the climate regionally in disrupting necessary weather patterns.

On the flip side, will this "darker" area cause an increase in water temperature or increase in evaporation, making it more humid and more stormy?

Though I've read that from the ISS, the oil actually appears as WHITE because it reflects so much light, so maybe it'll cool shit down?

That is interesting.  I have read/heard that the oil will slightly cool down the surface temperature, but by the time a storm reaches the gulf that small decrease in temperature is not likely to have much effect.  A big concern is that an acid rain type effect a storm could create as it sucks up some of the tainted water.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yghFBt-fXmw[/media]

is there any chance of a hurricane catching on fire in the gulf?  

let's get hypothetical for a minute.  lets say a massive hurricane gobbles up a whole bunch of oil into it's spiraling vortex... could it catch on fire?  that would be pretty fucking scary to see, a flaming hurricane made of oil..  

I wonder how many species of wildlife are going to become extinct because of this.  Bye bye Giant Jellyfish.  

Quoteis there any chance of a hurricane catching on fire in the gulf?  

let's get hypothetical for a minute.  lets say a massive hurricane gobbles up a whole bunch of oil into it's spiraling vortex... could it catch on fire?  that would be pretty fucking scary to see, a flaming hurricane made of oil..  

I wonder how many species of wildlife are going to become extinct because of this.  Bye bye Giant Jellyfish.  

Jellies will probably be fine because they thrive in dead zones with low oxygen.

Quote

Quoteis there any chance of a hurricane catching on fire in the gulf?  

let's get hypothetical for a minute.  lets say a massive hurricane gobbles up a whole bunch of oil into it's spiraling vortex... could it catch on fire?  that would be pretty fucking scary to see, a flaming hurricane made of oil..  

I wonder how many species of wildlife are going to become extinct because of this.  Bye bye Giant Jellyfish.  

Jellies will probably be fine because they thrive in dead zones with low oxygen.

jellyfish are pretty weird.  besides pelicans I wonder how many animals died because of this.  billions and billions of animals.  at first it was hard to believe that a 100billion dollar company could make such a huge fuck up because they wanted to save a couple million.  

the brits need to shut the fuck up too about this no offense to them.  it's not our fault BP is connected to them in such a big way.  maybe we should take over england as pay back for the revolutionary war and fucking our beautiful, yet scary, gulf of mexico.   I was listening to Rage Against the Machine today and it got me really pissed, I'm ready to huff some gas.

I was listening to the news for my area this morning.  (www.wdet.org - the craig fahle show - pretty cool dude).  anyway, the guy from this place was on talking with craig about his idea of how to clean up the oil.

here's his website:
http://www.rtgrs.com/

basically, they would use a substance/bacteria or something called prp, supposedly 100percent non-toxic.  after it binds with the oil, micro-organisms eat the oil.  

The dude who runs this company, or works for it said they won't even let him do a demonstration on a small piece of beach.  They won't let the private sector in or something.  The oil can't be used once it's in open water so trying to collect any of it is a waste of time right?  

here's the craig fahle show interview link if you want it:
http://wdet.org/craigfahle/  (6-17-10) around the middle of the show he talks to the guy.  

they said the oil skimmers that BP is currently using collects 10percent oil and 90percent water, they claim that their own special skimmers collect 90percent of the oil and only 10 percent of water.  

things that make ya go hmmm? I'm sorta stoned so research it if you want to know the straight facts.   oh yeah and this plant is in Utica, which is like 45minutes away from my house.  crazy stuff. eat that oil.

I don't know if anyone has seen this but I thought it was pretty hilarious:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAa0gd7ClM[/media]

Soup, check out ftp://pnj.com today to see what washed up over night.  It is horrible.

QuoteSoup, check out ftp://pnj.com today to see what washed up over night.  It is horrible.

Awful.  Your link didn't work for some reason, but I just went to the PNJ website.  I guess the inevitable happened.  I'm not a Charlie Crist hater, but I have a little trouble with him being the face of the oil-spill. Remember when he changed his stance on off-shore drilling in Florida when he was trying to become McCain's running mate?  There you go Charlie - the best beach in the world is now black.  The robust and diversified panhandle economy should have no problem replacing all of those tourism dollars.  I guess we're next.

Avertible catastrophe.

http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=3203808

We are headed to Okaloosa Island on Friday no matter what (hurricanes aside).