My Morning Jacket

I don't want to offend anyone who may gravitate towards this lifestyle but where I come from the music scene, the city and surrounding areas is populated by people with really tight pants, ironic sweaters and rimmed glasses. The stock in vegan eateries, art spaces, pabst beer, and kickball leagues must have skyrocketed

...I would not have any problem with this (I drink pabst myself) but the few friends I have within this crowd really make an effort to disguise themselves in this sense of self-importance and irony to the point that when I am touting the merits of hockey, Rush, ribs and the latest deal I got at Eddie Bauer they definitely alientate me and hand me the latest from Of Montreal, Fuck Buttons and Girl Talk.

I think its pretty funny but I wonder why we can't all accept each other's differences with non-judgement and enjoy each others company. The biggest problem I have had with it is that I used to find local shows as the best way to meet new people, like-minded music fans and even have made some great friends this way. Now I get weird non-inclusive looks the majority of the time at shows and I have tried starting conversations with others and believe me I think I can be quite delightful when in my element (at shows).

I don't wanna pigeon-hole the whole scene as I am sure there are awesome people within it but I have a few questions:
Am I being paranoid? Am I being too judgemental? Am I just getting old? Is there even a real hipster scene? How have others viewed this cultural anomoly?

I dont know much about the scene and I dont know anyone in it, but I do know I loathe skinny jeans.

QuoteI don't want to offend anyone who may gravitate towards this lifestyle but where I come from the music scene, the city and surrounding areas is populated by people with really tight pants, ironic sweaters and rimmed glasses. The stock in vegan eateries, art spaces, pabst beer, and kickball leagues must have skyrocketed

...I would not have any problem with this (I drink pabst myself) but the few friends I have within this crowd really make an effort to disguise themselves in this sense of self-importance and irony to the point that when I am touting the merits of hockey, Rush, ribs and the latest deal I got at Eddie Bauer they definitely alientate me and hand me the latest from Of Montreal, Fuck Buttons and Girl Talk.

I think its pretty funny but I wonder why we can't all accept each other's differences with non-judgement and enjoy each others company. The biggest problem I have had with it is that I used to find local shows as the best way to meet new people, like-minded music fans and even have made some great friends this way. Now I get weird non-inclusive looks the majority of the time at shows and I have tried starting conversations with others and believe me I think I can be quite delightful when in my element (at shows).

I don't wanna pigeon-hole the whole scene as I am sure there are awesome people within it but I have a few questions:
Am I being paranoid? Am I being too judgemental? Am I just getting old? Is there even a real hipster scene? How have others viewed this cultural anomoly?

you're being judgemental; I think we all do it. It's just, for some reason, some groups push our buttons while we ignore others.

I am about to meet a friend for coffee and the place will be swarming w/hipsters. Some days it bothers me, some days I laugh, other days I don't notice. Today I will make a conscious effort to love them.

we'll see...


(oh, and you're getting old!  ;))

After I have more caffeine i might be able to find it, but there was an article on Slate or Salon or something like that where an old hipster tore into these "new" hipsters, ragging on them for being too cool and judgmental to enjoy things, and that's just lame.

Philosophically, in my experience the majority of them are what Sartre calls "subjective" hipsters, simply playing the role they think makes them one, while very few are actual "objective" hipsters. Hence the annoyingness.

Example: my buddy who lives in brooklyn has a friend who likes to listen to animal collective at really loud volumes, but only when other people are over. He thinks this makes him relevant, but he admits he doesn't really enjoy the music.

So WTF?

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Philosophically, in my experience the majority of them are what Sartre calls "subjective" hipsters, simply playing the role they think makes them one, while very few are actual "objective" hipsters. Hence the annoyingness.

See this is exactly what confuses me...and Tracy you're right I know it is being judgmental on some level....but is it wholly that, or are their actions/behaviors/philosophies of fringe tastes and aloofness reinforcing their own exclusiveness and hence causing me to judge them in the first place.

I've never found myself to be too judgemental although I know we all are on some levels and at certain points. I have always included myself in the art/music/well-read/well-versed crowd because its important to me and what I believe keeps me well-infomed, educated and increases the likelihood of positive social interaction and conversation (things humans crave and enjoy)...However the exclusiveness and the difficulty in socialization within what I feel is my own scene causes me to be offended and exluded creating the judgement...so is this a natural feeling and hence the hipster's fault!?

BTW it should not go this deep I say this with mostly jest but through my observations this stuff is somewhat true.  ;)

To be judgmental is human.

To be intentionally and overly judgmental is hipster.

On the flip side, there is a lot of "hipster hate" that is just as judgmental.

I, on the other hand, am a snob. I'm not judgmental, I'm discerning!

Today's hipster is yesterday's flannel wearing grunger which was the 80s metal head.  (My favorite)  

I am guilty as the next guy of stereotyping.  As I get older, I try my damndest to wait and judge someone after I talk to them.   I remind myself that each "group" of people have equal amounts of assholes and good hearted folks.   I sometime think life would be easier if we were all blind.

this is a decent article

http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/79/hipster.html

....this never gets old. (love the dude's name who gets DQ'd)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAO4EVMlpwM[/media]

For a lot of people out there, they have a need to fit into a category. Take for instance last week when I happened upon a local college bar to hang out with my cousin for a bit; half the broskis in ther were wearing visors. It's fuckin November and night time, but that's the look for college kids in TN. Some of them even had sunglasses on croqees around there neck as well.

But I agree the whole Hipster scene is ruining the indie music scene.

Quotethis is a decent article

http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/79/hipster.html

Yup that pretty much defines it....A countercultural subsect not committing to one identity and shunning the very idea of conforming to any yet completely pronouncing their conformity to it through their very identity and appearance! It's confusing.

Quincy Jones (probably one of the least portrayers of hipsterdom yet a very relevant force in music) had an interesting idea: America needs a Secratary of Arts and Culture, every other country has one and without it the youth are becoming more and more Culturally autistic. I believe in America the melting pot but how nice it would be to have a cultural identity which doesn't faction people into countercultuture subsects but instead unites its people and give them a reason to be connected. It has to be exhausting trying to keep up with being completely meta, ironic, insular and exclusive all at the same time.  

Quote

Quotethis is a decent article

http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/79/hipster.html

Yup that pretty much defines it....A countercultural subsect not committing to one identity and shunning the very idea of conforming to any yet completely pronouncing their conformity to it through their very identity and appearance! It's confusing.

Quincy Jones (probably one of the least portrayers of hipsterdom yet a very relevant force in music) had an interesting idea: America needs a Secratary of Arts and Culture, every other country has one and without it the youth are becoming more and more Culturally autistic. I believe in America the melting pot but how nice it would be to have a cultural identity which doesn't faction people into countercultuture subsects but instead unites its people and give them a reason to be connected. It has to be exhausting trying to keep up with being completely meta, ironic, insular and exclusive all at the same time.  

I love adbusters.

I also love this thread, although I am pressed for time. I saw the guy below at the place i got coffee this morning in Nashville. He spent a good 6 seconds puring hot sauce into his fruit smoothie this morning at 9:15 (I am not lying about any of this). He was easily the hippest guy in the joint and since I am hip too, I didn't speak to him or idolize him (I did check out the hot sauce, and it was Paul Prudhomme's). None of the hipsters for which you speak gave him a second glance, for his style of hippness is beyond them, in the faction of several light years, pertaining to clothes, grooming, talent and refreshments. And the choder is correct > we all judge. That can be either good or bad or both. I know "anti-hipsters" who make "hipsters" look like real "anti-hipsters"..... of course.

Billy Gibbons
(http://www.vegasnews.com/wp-content/uploads/7_25_09_B_zztop_kabik-18-588.jpg)

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He spent a good 6 seconds puring hot sauce into his fruit smoothie this morning at 9:15 (I am not lying about any of this).

If this is true than that is the most badass thing I've ever heard of.!

I'm going to spin Degüello tonight in honor of this story!
(I'm going to spin it even if it's not true!) 8-)

first & foremost .. billy gibbons is the mothergrabbin' MAN !!!

i've lived in brooklyn for over 8 years and have had my fair share of hanging out in the williamsburg neighborhood (used to be my main hangout hood as i had tons of friends living there + there is a metric ton of great bars/restaurants/etc..) and williamsburg is the epicenter of hipsters. i have alot of thoughts on the topic but generally have a hard time conveying them. i think the real hipster "movement" (for lack of a better word) is way over and we are now left with just another group of like-minded people that share interests and dress in similar styles (i.e. hippies, jocks, hiphop, rave kids .. whatever).

i totally get the grating on the nerves though. i remember my "give me a fucking break" moment. it was 2004 and i was on the L train (if there ever were a subway line for a certain group of people .. it was the hipsters and the L train which connected w'burg to manhattan). i was on my way to see a movie in the city & all the hipsters load in on the bedford stop (if ever there were a ground zero, it is bedford avenue). i was surrounded by these people all sporting the "ironic" style .. horrendous fucking outfits that no one in the history of time would have put together. every article of clothing they were wearing were purposely mix-matched in every way possible. your fucking kidding me right? i then go to see the movie .. i heart huckabee's. i hated this movie, hated!! walking out i am surrounded by hipsters in their ironic mix-matched wear and they are all commenting how great the movie is and how DEEP it was .. woah existential issues dude!!!! i lost it .. i totally lost it and went on a hysterical rant right on the street. annnnd here is where i forget my point / where i was going with this .. gotta get back to work for the time being but i'll leave you guys this website:  look @ this fucking hipster (http://www.latfh.com/)



(http://www.hipstertravelguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/hipster-bingo.jpg)

Quotei hated this movie, hated!!

Yeah I hated that movie too! and I like all the actors in it.

You know what else may be claimed a hipster movie that was so soul-siphoning self-absorbed, pointless and may induce depression and general hatred towards everyone in the world: GREENBERG!

Do not see that movie. I am a clinical therapist and I may be just burnt from dealing with depressed people all day but all together a terrible waste of time, the chick was good but not enough to redeem Ben Stiller's character: total reprehensible hipster!

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Quotei hated this movie, hated!!

Yeah I hated that movie too! and I like all the actors in it.

You know what else may be claimed a hipster movie that was so soul-siphoning self-absorbed, pointless and may induce depression and general hatred towards everyone in the world: GREENBERG!

Do not see that movie. I am a clinical therapist and I may be just burnt from dealing with depressed people all day but all together a terrible waste of time, the chick was good but not enough to redeem Ben Stiller's character: total reprehensible hipster!

Hahaha.  That movie was something else.  It kinda freaked me out and pissed me off.  I totally understand what you're saying.

I don't mind "hipsters" as long as they're not A-holes, but then again I'm from small town Iowa/Ohio so I haven't really met all that many.  I can't stand snobbish/elitist people in general though.  I understand wanting to surround yourself with like-minded people and all, but that doesn't mean you have to be a dick to everyone else!

I am such a hipster that I sniffed "pshhhh....so 2006" to all of the band references in this thread.   ;D

I think what y'all are describing are scenesters, not true hipsters.  Scenesters don't really have anything to say, but the hipster folk I know are the people actually out creating the art/music/literary scene that the scenesters then latch onto for identity.

Semantics are such a hipstery thing to argue, I know.   :P

I always find "hipster" to be a funny word. Anyways, there are annoying people in all walks of life. A thread on an internet forum though... you're letting it get to you too much.

Quoteyou're letting it get to you too much.

Ha! I would agree but I doubt you live in downtown Providence!

As I said it's more jest and prob getting old, not getting as much enjoyment outta the music scene anymore etc...

ALady: I'm sure we are all just real hipsters, living in a scenester world!

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ALady: I'm sure we are all just real hipsters, living in a scenester world!

Ha!  I like it.   :) ;)

QuoteI am such a hipster that I sniffed "pshhhh....so 2006" to all of the band references in this thread.   ;D

I think what y'all are describing are scenesters, not true hipsters.  Scenesters don't really have anything to say, but the hipster folk I know are the people actually out creating the art/music/literary scene that the scenesters then latch onto for identity.

Semantics are such a hipstery thing to argue, I know.   :P

love this post, you f'in hipster.
;D ;)

I don't see that many hipsters here in suburban PA, only see them sometimes at shows in Pittsburgh. I like I Heart Huckabees, hope that doesn't make me a hipster.  ;)
I like what I want to like and don't really fit into any groups, I too enjoy ribs, hockey, fantasy sports, etc as well as watching foreign movies and listening to indie music.

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QuoteI am such a hipster that I sniffed "pshhhh....so 2006" to all of the band references in this thread.   ;D

I think what y'all are describing are scenesters, not true hipsters.  Scenesters don't really have anything to say, but the hipster folk I know are the people actually out creating the art/music/literary scene that the scenesters then latch onto for identity.

Semantics are such a hipstery thing to argue, I know.   :P

love this post, you f'in hipster.
;D ;)

U beat me to it.   a hipster's hipster.   ;D  

I stayed in Brooklyn during the majority of the T5 run, and my friend lived a few blocks from the Bedford subway stop, so that was our stop....it was quite hilarious.  I just can't help but to laugh.  

this website is always good for a few chuckles.

http://www.latfh.com/

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He spent a good 6 seconds puring hot sauce into his fruit smoothie this morning at 9:15 (I am not lying about any of this).

If this is true than that is the most badass thing I've ever heard of.!

I'm going to spin Degüello tonight in honor of this story!
(I'm going to spin it even if it's not true!) 8-)

It's true. I was wondering what he was pouring in there and I checked it out (and my friend Richard (who's 68) checked out what he was driving, some sort of SUV  that he couldn't identify. Black, of course)

Funny, b/c we meet there for coffee every other month, and last year we saw her there. She looked like a 12 year old girl.

(http://yummycelebrities.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/nicole-kidman-000a.jpg)

Quote....
I think what y'all are describing are scenesters, not true hipsters.  Scenesters don't really have anything to say, but the hipster folk I know are the people actually out creating the art/music/literary scene that the scenesters then latch onto for identity.

Semantics are such a hipstery thing to argue, I know.   :P

o0o0h i actually agree with you 210% .. like i said, whenever this convo comes up i have a hard time conveying my thoughts. during the T5 run i was hanging out with DanZ and we had the very same discussion. i tried to explain what i thought a true hipster was which is basically what you said Lady A. i went to art school and with what i do for a living, living where i do, and hanging out with the people in the places i do .. you'd probably consider me a hipster if i wasn't so into phish & a huge hippie at heart ;)

that said .. the extreme stereotypes being described and bitched about in this thread do exist and are worthy of an eye-roll .. but that can be said about any group of like-minded people

;D One of my cousins used to have a picture on the latfh.com site. Oakland hipster.

We used to call them "clones." They place too much importance on where they live and what they're listening to and which bars they drink at, though these priorities certainly aren't unique to them. I always thought of them as one of the snottiest of the scenes that are soley based on "what you're into" rather than "what you can do." You don't need to be able to do shit to be a hipster, and the internet makes it easy to find out what's cool.

Their props and costumes are easy to identify (fixed gear bikes, thick rimmed glasses), but their common beliefs are a little trickier. I'd say the belief in the absolute superiority of urban living is the common unifier though. All the little wannabe hipsters in the suburbs and country towns want to get to the city.

(http://static.tvfanatic.com/images/gallery/kramer-picture.jpg)

HIPSTER DOOFUS!

I'm more than a little pissed that wearing a cardigan and rolling my own cigarettes now make me appear to be a(n aging) hipster.

You've all seen my glasses.   :-/ :-[

QuoteI'm more than a little pissed that wearing a cardigan and rolling my own cigarettes now make me appear to be a(n aging) hipster.

still leaving a fuse on your rolly's Crispy??!!  ;D

I blame The Strokes for all hipsters*

(*I actually do like the Strokes, but I dont think I'm cool enough (or skinny enough - damn skinny jeans) to be a hipster. Does not being cool make you cool these days, I cant keep up...?)

Emo's are a spin off of Goth kids, they dress stupid but have emotions, unlike the dark gothic stranglings..

Hipster's are a spin off of Emo kinds, only instead of being sad they are angry and pretentious.  They are essentially pretentious art kids,  well actually, I'd say 10percent are art kids and the other 90percent are posers.  they are 100percent lame tho.  

QuoteEmo's are a spin off of Goth kids, they dress stupid but have emotions, unlike the dark gothic stranglings..

Hipster's are a spin off of Emo kinds, only instead of being sad they are angry and pretentious.  They are essentially pretentious art kids,  well actually, I'd say 10percent are art kids and the other 90percent are posers.  they are 100percent lame tho.  

This is is a little off topic but I saw some goth kidd wearing a shirt the other day that said "you laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because your all the same" haha it was halarious.

Ps- hipsters suck

QuoteYou've all seen my glasses.   :-/ :-[

maggie .. i'd love to have a convo with you about this in person. i'm sure we'd agree all the way and laugh while drinking bourbon  8-)

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QuoteI'm more than a little pissed that wearing a cardigan and rolling my own cigarettes now make me appear to be a(n aging) hipster.

still leaving a fuse on your rolly's Crispy??!!  ;D

I blame The Strokes for all hipsters*

(*I actually do like the Strokes, but I dont think I'm cool enough (or skinny enough - damn skinny jeans) to be a hipster. Does not being cool make you cool these days, I cant keep up...?)

You are the coolest my friend.

(http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=282700488711&id=0ca78314f16c67306d3a56d61ee268c6&index=ch1)

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QuoteYou've all seen my glasses.   :-/ :-[

maggie .. i'd love to have a convo with you about this in person. i'm sure we'd agree all the way and laugh while drinking bourbon  8-)

Hell yes! And I love bourbon...shoot, is that hipstery too?   :-?

Quote

Quote

QuoteYou've all seen my glasses.   :-/ :-[

maggie .. i'd love to have a convo with you about this in person. i'm sure we'd agree all the way and laugh while drinking bourbon  8-)

Hell yes! And I love bourbon...shoot, is that hipstery too?   :-?

no .. liking bourbon is just called having good taste   :)

Whew    8-)

Hipsters really hate it when you know and understand what they are talking, especially when you add to the conversation. And they really don't like it if you know more about certain hipster topics than they do.  

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Quote

Quote

QuoteYou've all seen my glasses.   :-/ :-[

maggie .. i'd love to have a convo with you about this in person. i'm sure we'd agree all the way and laugh while drinking bourbon  8-)

Hell yes! And I love bourbon...shoot, is that hipstery too?   :-?

no .. liking bourbon is just called having good taste   :)

Swooning over both of you :-* :-* [smiley=beer.gif]

The day that bourbon becomes an adopted hipster beverage is the day I'll teach 'em how to drink.

Hey Maggie, PBR and bourbon special...sans PBR

QuoteHipsters really hate it when you know and understand what they are talking, especially when you add to the conversation. And they really don't like it if you know more about certain hipster topics than they do.  

That feeling is wonderful

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QuoteHipsters really hate it when you know and understand what they are talking, especially when you add to the conversation. And they really don't like it if you know more about certain hipster topics than they do.  

That feeling is wonderful

I KNOW!! My friend and his girlfriend like to think they are hipsters (both pushing 40), but I call him out all the time and he hates it, but there's little he can do because we both know I could break him in half. He assumes a lot about me but really doesn't know what makes me tick. I love his unease. It smells like... victory.

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QuoteEmo's are a spin off of Goth kids, they dress stupid but have emotions, unlike the dark gothic stranglings..

Hipster's are a spin off of Emo kinds, only instead of being sad they are angry and pretentious.  They are essentially pretentious art kids,  well actually, I'd say 10percent are art kids and the other 90percent are posers.  they are 100percent lame tho.  

This is is a little off topic but I saw some goth kidd wearing a shirt the other day that said "you laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because your all the same" haha it was halarious.

Ps- hipsters suck

yeah, I never understood the anti conformity but conform to each other down to the spike bracelet they wear thing.  It's a gigantic hypocrisy that all Goth, Hipsters, and Emo's share.  Their desperate attempt to separate themselves from the true nature of things.  

Unless they're out protesting or making a difference all they're doing is bitching like the rest of us.  the only difference is they wear fancy costumes and have technicolored hair.

"we're like making a statement conformist".  it's laughable.

QuoteHipsters really hate it when you know and understand what they are talking, especially when you add to the conversation. And they really don't like it if you know more about certain hipster topics than they do.  

hipsters have also trapped themselves in to listening to genre music, which seems slightly conformist to me.  

in high school I was pretty cool with most everybody in a sense, to me it almost seems like they all love the band the "misfits".  but then again I'm talking about kids 10years ago when they were less commercialized.  it's become a demographic that can be marketed too now.  they are conformists to the max degree.

you can breakdown their argument down to arrogance every time.  it's irrational.  if they don't want to be walking advertisements with abercombie and fitch logos on their shirts, cool, but don't go shop at Hot Topic right after you bitch about it, ya know?