Okay, I'm reversing myself and posting a short rant on why I think it's wrong to gobble up the new record because it's "leaked".
We are talking about My Morning Jacket, and for that reason I decline to accept "it's already happening" or "that's the way of the music biz these days" or some other kow-towing excuse to steal this record. There, I said it. The fans who post here about the "leak" I am hoping will actually buy the record when it does come out to support their favorite band.
It's the unseen masses of folks who won't buy the record and support the band I am most concerned with, and this "leak" feeds that like a gasoline fire. How many downloads from Kaaza will it take to cut into the sales of the record?
MMJ is a special convergence of music and love and community. This "leak" denigrates them to a mere commodity to be consumed, IMHO...like a Mocha Frappacino, or a pack of Depends, or some other hopeless tripe. The record comes out tentatively in September. Some of us view that as special and worthy of savoring and waiting for. For those of you who just can't wait for your instant gratification, so be it.
Yeah, we have ourselves a leak! Maybe you're overreacting. This happens with every highly anticipated album and will not hurt any future sales because MP3's sound like shit! Anyone in a right state of mind and enough love for the music will end up buying the real thing. Leak or no leak. By the way, this must be the smallest leak ever because I don't see shit in the usual places! I download albums all the time, just to see if I like it or not and when I do, I go out and buy the real thing. My Morning Jacket has nothing to worry about. I would never have discovered this band if I had not downloaded their stuff. Now I own all their albums, the real thing, and saw a shitload of shows.
QuoteYeah, we have ourselves a leak! Maybe you're overreacting. This happens with every highly anticipated album and will not hurt any future sales because MP3's sound like shit! Anyone in a right state of mind and enough love for the music will end up buying the real thing. Leak or no leak. By the way, this must be the smallest leak ever because I don't see shit in the usual places! I download albums all the time, just to see if I like it or not and when I do, I go out and buy the real thing. My Morning Jacket has nothing to worry about. I would never have discovered this band if I had not downloaded their stuff. Now I own all their albums, the real thing, and saw a shitload of shows.
see, that's a middle ground I can accept.
But the uneducated who just rip it off who I really worry about. Obviously you are not of that ilk...
Quote
see, that's a middle ground I can accept.
But the uneducated who just rip it off who I really worry about. Obviously you are not of that ilk...
Props to you John for posting your opinion. I think it's actually a good, interesting discussion. This whole thing has made me rethink a few things and get a better understanding on where I stand. :)
what about the fan who would never hear mmj if it weren't for free mp3s? And then that fan may go see them in concert, which puts more money into the pocket of the band. Record companies get ripped off the music is leaked. Or maybe Im just rationalizing because I really want to hear the new album.
BTW, will someone kindly send me the link? (I promise to buy the albuum anyway when it comes out anyway :)+
Quotewhat about the fan who would never hear mmj if it weren't for free mp3s? And then that fan may go see them in concert, which puts more money into the pocket of the band. Record companies get ripped off the music is leaked. Or maybe Im just rationalizing because I really want to hear the new album.
BTW, will someone kindly send me the link? (I promise to buy the albuum anyway when it comes out anyway :)+
But again, what about the artfulness of the final product, and the fact that anything we create, we hope it's experienced in the proper environment, ie, NOT a cruddy mp3, and NOT without the liner notes and artwork?
And we don't want record companies to lose money, really, either, because if they go under, well... we're fucked.
It's all about respect. Respect for someone's efforts, respect for their wishes.
Again, for me, for me, for me. Only my opinion.
How are we fucked if the record companies go under? As a musician you show know that taking music out of the hands of the record companies is a good thing for musicians. I agree with you about the mp3 sound quality stuff and that's why I'll buy a copy of CD when it comes out and I'll buy the vinyl as well because I'm a collector of sorts. But I also really want to hear the new tunes. Don't kid yourself about taking food off of the band's dinner table, though. The way to show the band respect is to go to the shows and spread the word. I agree with you about the artfulness of a creation, but at this point I am like a smack addict, I just want a little taste.
This is an interesting argument for sure. I agree with a lot of the points that many of you have made, and I do think that there will be some greedy souls out there who will not buy the record because they downloaded it. But I believe the bigger number will be the ones who will download and buy it. I think we do this because we want to feel like we own something, it's not just a CD-R with some music on it! We want a case, we want to read lyrics, see the artwork and smell the smell of a new CD! (Maybe I'm off my rocker, but music fans will always want the record, even if they get the leaked copy)
An interesting thing to consider is the tale of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. I remember seeing Wilco 4th of July in Chicago before they could find a record company to distribute the new record, all the fans new all the lyrics to all the words because Wilco actually put it up themselves on their site for download by anyone, anytime. Tweedy commented, "You guys know all the lyrics...now HOW did that happen?" (wink~wink)
After they found a record label who would distribute it, Yankee Hotel Foxtrot became their best-selling record to date. (I think that AGIB actually eclipsed that now...but that's antother thread ;))
I'm going out on a limb but it might actually help their overall sales, once ppl hear them...they'll be hooked and want to get more of their music...?
LEAKED? Wow....So I guess it's done then...I thought the delay was to work on the record...
Wait, how are people even hearing the album?
it's on the internet, somewhere, which reminds me...
WILL SOMEONE PLEASE SEND ME THE LINK!?!?!?!?!
No man...just wait for it...
QuoteHow are we fucked if the record companies go under? As a musician you show know that taking music out of the hands of the record companies is a good thing for musicians. I agree with you about the mp3 sound quality stuff and that's why I'll buy a copy of CD when it comes out and I'll buy the vinyl as well because I'm a collector of sorts. But I also really want to hear the new tunes. Don't kid yourself about taking food off of the band's dinner table, though. The way to show the band respect is to go to the shows and spread the word. I agree with you about the artfulness of a creation, but at this point I am like a smack addict, I just want a little taste.
Dude, if record companies go under, how are records going to be made?
This has NOTHING to do with taking anybody's dinner away.
I understand the "crack addict" part, too. But there's loads of condoned, live versions of some of these songs floating around.
And JacketGirl, the difference (presumably) with Wilco, is that Wilco did that themselves.
Anyhow. I don't know, everybody make the choice that they can live with. :)
McGuire and amilliondreams are right, I think. Downloading freebies does seem to be the way people hear new stuff now. I would hate to think it affects the band's income, but think most people who find they are interested buy the albums. And those who don't wouldn't have bought them anyway.
I also think the album notes and pictures are hugely important, although I never read them until I've been listening to the music for a while. They mean more to me then, somehow.
I think it was sweatboard who pointed out that it's a long time to wait. We all know the album is finished and the release has already been put back. People who've been to the shows have been talking about the new songs already, and for me it just heightens the anticipation. I don't have the dilemma that some of you have as I don't have the wherewithall to download anyway. I'll wait for the album, fall in love with it and then read the cover notes a week or so later.
Okay, forget the ethical commentary for a minute...for those who've heard it, what do you think? Or should I even ask? I'm sure it'll get glowing reviews for most of y'all but any specific feedback or insight would be appreciated. I read the Billboard review and I'm expecting a departure of sorts which could lead to a moderate critical smackdown, but who knows.
p.s. For the record, I've never downloaded anything. I don't even know how.
Quote
Dude, if record companies go under, how are records going to be made?
Without record companies, records would get made by musicians. With modern technologies, anyone has the ability to record, produce, and distribute an album via the internet, photoshop, and Protools. The only reason for a record company is to leech off of someone else's creation. I don't know how things have gone in Canada, but in America record companies have been ripping of musicians, promoting no-talent hacks, and ignoring talent musicians who don't interest them for the past seventy years. If record complanies went away, music would still be produced and it would be more honest and less commercial and everyone could eat at the table.
Danko71, I think you're looking for the thread marked *Spoiler
Whoops, got it. Thanks...
.....yeah, so where's this leak? what's the difference if some lug head downloads it in late october?????? Personally, my wife and I work 6 days a week in a music store, sell as much MMJ as possible, see their shows repeatedly, buy the t-shirts (except the one tommy gave me) and do whatever we can to expose mmj......trying to rationalize if it's okay to hear their new album before it's out seems an irrelevant and a non-conclusive argument...the people that don't buy it, won't buy it ANYWAY, and do we really need them around? If MMJ means so little to them to steal their music and relagate themselves to shithead casual fan status who's only happy with a burned copy, then let them stay home when we're out HAPPILY seeing our favorite band for $20 (or whatever they ask us to pay), cause personally I'd rather just be around the real fans anway...so peoples, get off the high self righteous horses and throw me and amilliondreams a bone...so where's this link to "Z"????
I'm not on any high horses. I simply regard their music as something special, something more like art than the latest Jessica Simpson. And I respect your efforts on their behalf (I too have done a little promotion for them ;)).
Thing is, if it's "leaked", that means someone along the way that was trusted with the tracks broke that trust. The music didn't just ooze out of the walls and crawl thru the streets, now did it?
And I'm not discounting that people discovered the band thru MP3's. Of course that's a good thing...AFTER the record is offically released.
if it's not a "consumable commodity" (which almost makes you want to throw in "commerce",too) why isn't everything just free then? No, of course, it's not Jessica Simpson, that's absurd..it is art, and i do want them to make a living playing, and i do want to hear "Z" the album!!!!!!!!
I don't think I'm on a high horse, either. I'm only trying to state my views as to why I'M not gonna do it.
And, amilliondreams, I know you're right about record labels ripping musicians off. And they're corporate, and usually money-minded, and they're dealing with art, which causes a big riff in interests. But as far as a self-produced, self-made record - trying to get people outside of your family and friends and your 8 fans to even KNOW about it is insanely difficult.
The other thing about the free mp3s is that usually you can get them from a band's website in order to get a taste for the music. Some bands will let you stream their entire record for free. If they choose. Like John said, this doesn't appear to be their choice.
To me downloading can be a great way to discover new music.
Eventually I''ll buy the album if it's good enough.
Not every album that is downloaded is an album sale lost!!
It can be away to discover, to learn and eventually buy more and go to concerts.
How should you get to know new music that is not played on the radio (and hell, there is not much good stuff played on the radio)? For example Great Lake Swimmers, Andrew Bird and many others.
Now I've heard them, like them and will go to their shows if they come over here. That's not a loss, that's a win.
Sometimes a little taste might help you to be convinced of an atist's value. And I can't afford just buying albums based on a description, I like to know if it's worth it. There are so many great albums out there and I can't afford to buy those all, so I'd rather not be stuck with an expensive, mediocre record.
Of coursesome bands i really love, support have won my respect and I'll buy their stuff immediately without hearing it in advance. For those special ones I prefer to wait for the finished work of art.
QuoteBut as far as a self-produced, self-made record - trying to get people outside of your family and friends and your 8 fans to even KNOW about it is insanely difficult.
The other thing about the free mp3s is that usually you can get them from a band's website in order to get a taste for the music. Some bands will let you stream their entire record for free. If they choose. Like John said, this doesn't appear to be their choice.
It would be a lot easier to get a self-produced album "out there" if there were no more record companies. I've heard your music because of this forum and because you didn't charge me for it. If you had a deal with RCA I would probably never hear your music (which is vey good, I might add). :)
And I agree with you that it's really up to the band on this one, but their record company will never let them say, "go ahead and download", so who knows what they think.
P.S. Still waiting on that link
you're not on "high horses", just a joke, and i wasn't referring to you....collectively, as a "whole", i just find the whole thing ridiculous....i play in a struggling band and if we didn't have this medium to use to our advantage, we wouldn't have sold half of our cd's..i look quite often at mp3 lists where you can get our whole album and i feel quite proud that it's out there enough for people to enjoy and it's flattering and all that..now I know we're not on RCA or anything, but my views would never change and it just seems like we should all be over this dead horse..it's a good thing to share the music..EC, we would have never,ever,ever heard each other if we didn't have this advantage at our fingertips.....NOW GIVE ME THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(you're totally right that we wouldn't have heard each other without the internet. But I let you listen, and you let me listen. It's not the medium.)
so has anyone besides payroll_pete and willco seen it?
not really a leak. more like condensation.
this is my own thread and I'm mystified at the respones. I'm not sure where it was I said I was against downloading or digital music, so I give up.
Quotethis is my own thread and I'm mystified at the respones. I'm not sure where it was I said I was against downloading or digital music, so I give up.
Don't give up, John. Getting to the bottom of issues is important. :)
I have all of MMJ's commercial releases and even if I get the new album early,I will still buy it when it comes out.
I ALWAYS support my fav bands and artists by purchasing their commercial stuff.
Its definitely leaked. There isn't a link to show you....sorry. I got it on a torrent site that is members only (you have to be invited). Hundreds of people have this. I'm sure it on soulseek by now.
its all apples and oranges, joints and bong rips here. theres been so much chat, i didnt see who exactly who said what, but you have to know that concerts tickets and merchandise bought at shows gives the band 90% of the money they see. ive seen the jacket 4 times now and bought 4 shirts, and that equates to much more than buying the album at even the most indie store. i dont know exact figures, but id guess a band sees maybe $1 for a $15 cd bought in stores. im going to get it when it comes out, regardless. i hope the comradery doesnt vanish this quickly when an issue like this comes forth. i think its a mindest for lesser known bands for the fans to try to compete for biggest fan award, and it could be wots going on here. no one is better or worse for downloading the album when it leaks. if you go to a live show and buy merchandise now and then, spread the gospel, youre doing more for any band that any record store or tv show or record label can do. the band makes the music, the people that are moved by it should do what they can to saturate the world with the gift we already know about. ;)
I'm tired of this discussion. I've said my last word on it.
I prefer not to listen to it, others do.
If you want to discuss further, go on.
Peace, I'll be in the off-topic area talking about the usual nonsense.
If it makes anyone feel any better when it comes out,I am buying all copies my record store has of "Z" and handing them out to my friends.
i just wanted to throw in two pennies. hey Chills, to take our minds off it, lets go discuss the new grandaddy EP coming out some time soon! ;D ;D
Quotei just wanted to throw in two pennies. hey Chills, to take our minds off it, lets go discuss the new grandaddy EP coming out some time soon! ;D ;D
ah interesting, let's take over this thread and talk about other bands! I've heard nothing about it, has it leaked already ;D. No seriously what do you know about it?
Quote
ah interesting, let's take over this thread and talk about other bands! I've heard nothing about it, has it leaked already ;D. No seriously what do you know about it?
i only know what i read, my friend. theres no release date on this article for the EP or the next album, though.
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/news/05-07/13.shtml#grandaddy
Hmm. And I was already in heavy doubt wether I would download the live versions of the new songs. Mind you, I haven't heard a single song of this album, because they haven't played over here in almost two years, if I remember correctly. I did look on Soulseek, however, just to see if I could download if I would want to. And there it is. I'm not going to download it but it's a weird feeling to just stare at the titles for a while..
I did download the new leaked dEUS album. That's a Belgian band that's quite huge in Belgium, Holland and England, who haven't released an album for 6 years and I needed to hear it just because I was so afraid that it would be a dissapointment. And it was.
lol i know that feeling
QuoteHmm. And I was already in heavy doubt wether I would download the live versions of the new songs. Mind you, I haven't heard a single song of this album, because they haven't played over here in almost two years, if I remember correctly. I did look on Soulseek, however, just to see if I could download if I would want to. And there it is. I'm not going to download it but it's a weird feeling to just stare at the titles for a while..
I did download the new leaked dEUS album. That's a Belgian band that's quite huge in Belgium, Holland and England, who haven't released an album for 6 years and I needed to hear it just because I was so afraid that it would be a dissapointment. And it was.
so theyve gone downhill quite a bit since IN A BAR, UNDER THE SEA ????
i'm not sure of the intent of this discussion, but if anyone is keeping track of the general sentiment of the majority of mmj fans, i'm for downloading an album as long as you purchase it as well.
i try to live by the rule that if i'm not going to buy it, then i'll delete it from my computer.
i also think we should always support bands when they come to your town. it seems like any and everything helps, and buying things and attending shows is such a great way to directly support them and show someone you like the music that they make. it's very encouraging.
of couse i'd like to hear the new album, but i don't think you guys should be begging for the link. that's embarassing and rude, especially on the band's message board.
my few cents.
i'm new by the way, hello all.
-AUSTIN
Quotei'm not sure of the intent of this discussion, but if anyone is keeping track of the general sentiment of the majority of mmj fans, i'm for downloading an album as long as you purchase it as well.
i try to live by the rule that if i'm not going to buy it, then i'll delete it from my computer.
i also think we should always support bands when they come to your town. it seems like any and everything helps, and buying things and attending shows is such a great way to directly support them and show someone you like the music that they make. it's very encouraging.
of couse i'd like to hear the new album, but i don't think you guys should be begging for the link. that's embarassing and rude, especially on the band's message board.
my few cents.
i'm new by the way, hello all.
-AUSTIN
I doubt the band considers this "Thier Message Board" I would think they probably consider it "ours". The fact is the album is out now and if you have acess to the internet and a desire to get it, you are going to be able to. I think this statement "that's embarassing and rude" is way out of line. Just my two cents.
QuoteI think this statement "that's embarassing and rude" is way out of line. Just my two cents.
I don't find it out of line. I got cringy, too, with people saying thing like GIVE ME THE MUSIC, or "I know it's probably against what the band wanted, but I really want to hear it." Or "Their family and friends can listen, why can't we?"
I'm not trying to shout any particular person(s) out, and those are just statements that stuck in my head. But when the fans start believing that they "deserve" to hear a band's new album, even if the band hasn't released said album, then things get a little screwed.
EC, I never took you as such a capitalist. I would have thought you be one of those, the music belongs to everyone, kind of people. I didn't mean to offend anyone by begging for the link. But it worked, and I'm listening to the new album right now and I'm not all embarrassed by it. ;D
QuoteEC, I never took you as such a capitalist. I would have thought you be one of those, the music belongs to everyone, kind of people. I didn't mean to offend anyone by begging for the link. But it worked, and I'm listening to the new album right now and I'm not all embarrassed by it. ;D
Holy crap.
aMillionDreams, maybe you're just being funny? (I hope?)
But no. I definitely am not one of those who thinks that "the music belongs to everyone."
let's save the insults and general bad vibe. i think this has run it's course. there are those who want to download it, and those who think otherwise.
for the record, i echo sir riny in asking that no one post links anywhere on this board to any sites offering the new record (or any other for sale MMJ music).
Live recordings have always been available for folks to share. It was always my intention to distribute the live shows, with the band's permission, to anyone who asked for them. It was never my intention to foster the idea that anyone could or should distribute the band's official catalog, but since torrents and Kazaa and other modes of distribution exist outside of anyone's control, it has become obvious that these things are going to happen, regardless of mine or any other person's intentions. It is clearly a philosophical choice one makes-by offering the catalog for free, there is little incentive for all who hear it to actually buy it.
There are those who would argue that they downloaded the record and will therefore buy it. Kudos to those we've heard from. Bullocks to the masses we haven't heard from who won't. I believe that by offering samples, established bands can increase their sales. It's the CD quality, full album downloads I fret about.
I'm not trying to paint all downloaders as bad people, or "uncool", or trying to win some #1 fan contest. What I am doing is trying to appeal to your sense of reason, and not post links to any sites offering any of the band's catalog for downloading.
And I swear I'll shut up about it.
I wouldn't post any direct link, especially since Riny asked us not to. I'm just not sure what your hang up is about? I understand that you wish that some fans wouldn't do what they do, but you can't control what other people do, so get off it! You are obviously someone who is going to buy the CD, so what's stopping you from getting an early listen?
BTW, if the "let's save the insults" line was directed towards me, how about you save the comments where to tell me what to post and what not to post. It's getting a little old and last time I checked Riny was the moderator and my my dad lived in Ohio.
I think it's shitty that this thing leaked. If it was my album i wouldn't like it at all. That being said i don't think that people downloading it will hurt their sales one bit.
we live in a "have to have it right now" kind of world. it's unfortionate in my opinion. one day it could be the end of us...
QuoteI would post any direct link, especially since Riny asked us to. I'm just not sure what your hang up is about? I understand that you wish that some fans wouldn't do what they do, but you can't control what other people do, so get off it! You are obviously someone who is going to buy the CD, so what's stopping you from getting an early listen?
BTW, if the "let's save the insults" line was directed towards me, how about you save the comments where to tell me what to post and what not to post. It's getting a little old and last time I checked Riny was the moderator and my my dad lived in Ohio.
WOW! What's old is listening to people trying to justify distributing an unreleased record! No shit I can't control other people. I hadn't noticed that.
But just like you continue to insist it's okay to do this, I have every right to point out to you that it's not okay. This IS a message board, after all.
Obviously, you don't get what I'm driving at.
You're right, I don't understand what you're driving at. I was trying to get you to make your point clearer. It doesn't make sense to me that if you're going to buy the album anyway, why you would feel wrong/guilty about listening to it early? And if you're going to point out that it's not okay to download the album, you should give reasons to support your claim, rather than just dismiss my reasoned arguments as "general bad vibe".
i didn't mean to be a part of such a giant, controversial issue...leave that to the suits..I (personally) didn't mean to get under anyone's skin so bad....i wouldn't want to do that..as far as being, "embarrassing and rude", i've tried my hardest to never be either..that's a joke..and when I said, "Give me the music" i guess i didn't add enough stupid smiley faces or hints of light hearted playfulness..it's just music..jeez....screw it, i'll wait till the 2008 winter equinox to hear "Z" if it'll please people on a message board (about music, by the way).....sorry....i guess my zest and excitement didn't translate enough...i guess the band probably won't give me a chocolate chip cookie now :) :) :) :) :)
What happened to "Tonight I'll Be Staying Here With You?????" I LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE that song
I for one will be waiting for the release date to hear Z, i would never steal from my favorite band, and trust me, it is stealing. What if someone came to your place of work and said "I want what you do for free."
Do you think they want you to steal their music? That's basically a spit in the face of the band if you download illegally, especially if you love the band so much that you would post on their message board. Like saying "Fuck what you guys think, we don't give a shit, you guys cater to us."
i figured it would be a cold day in hell when Jacket fans are at each others throats.
Dude. aMillionDreams. I think John's been very clear that he's upset because somebody motherfucking else other than the band "decided" that it was okay for them to start distributing this album. John's been a longtime fan and helper and general special man in regards to this band, and I think it's pretty close to him. I shouldn't speak for him, but it REALLY gets me fucking riled if people are jumping on him
It's like, if somebody gets a hold of a friend's diary, and lets everybody else read it, and you know there's something really interesting in there, do you read it?
Just because something is "the way it is" does NOT make it right.
Well, I've said three times in this thread that you and I and folks here who post are most likely going to buy the record, but the ones we don't hear from are not as likely to buy it. And I think that will hurt sales of the record.
Also, as the record is still unreleased, it is not officially "out there" and somehow it's on the internet. I think that someone along the way violated the band's trust, which is totally uncool.
and the "general bad vibe" is about how this has degraded into an argument that won't get resolved-as I stated previously, there are those who will do this, and those who won't, and no amount of message board posting is going to change that. slinging terms like "capitalist" isn't helpful, either.
so I hope that makes it crystal clear for you.
again, i'm sorry.....i love my morning jacket and i love their fans.... :-*
yeah, that clears it up. I respect your decision and you don't have to respect mine. Sorry to use such nasty words as "capitalist", but in my house that's not an insult. Were you really offended by that, EC?
honesty is the best policy...hey, at least i'm being honest... :-/, again, maybe we should lighten up.......it seems like this stuff has been dominating music message boards lately...whens the release date on that new Grandaddy (album and ep)? How about top listens as of late?
mine go like this:
1. Super Furry Animals-Love Kraft!!!! (album of the year, but i haven't heard "z" yet)
2.Radar Brothers-Fallen Leaf Pages, somebody needs to hear this album, truly great
3.The Quarter After- rob campanella's band (producer of the tyde, beachwood sparks,brian jonestown, elliot smith,etc..) pysche.country rock ala Byrds and Beachwood Sparks
4.Andrew Bird's Mysterious-so good, it almost makes you want to stop trying to play music
5.DJ Noboby-n/r from LA dj with guest's (Chris Gunst, Mia Doi Todd,etc) includes great reading of Flaming Lips, "what is the light?"
6.The Espers- if you like the "nu"folk stuff, check this one out...the best of this "genre" in my opinion..whatchew' checking out?
you got the advance, you didn't.
no reason for folk to stop hanging out.
can't blame the leaker (when you love something so much you want to share it with others who will love it), can't blame the leakees either. it's not a diary, its a commodity - it was built especially to be distributed.
and especially in regards to the folk here, who are obviously fans and respect support the band. we can drop the righteous indignation and the guilt-ridden defense and get back on track.
Quoteyeah, that clears it up. I respect your decision and you don't have to respect mine. Sorry to use such nasty words as "capitalist", but in my house that's not an insult. Were you really offended by that, EC?
No, I wasn't offended by it. I was surprised. But more surprised about the other comment.
It's partly because people keep calling me a hippie, and it's totally freaking me out. I think it's because my hair is long and I've been wearing a lot of t-shirts lately.
And dudes, all of you, I'm serious when I say that I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, or made someone feel like I was shouting out at them specifically (unless I was responding to a specific post). I HATE conflict. I seriously hate, hate, hate it, and probably try to avoid it more than I should. But I don't think this whole discussion was for nothing. I do think it's important to figure out where you stand about stuff, and to talk about things. Everybody's contribution into the pile is important to the whole, and if nothing else, you learn.
And learning is good. And learning is knowledge. And knowledge is knowing.
And knowing is half the battle.
(Where's that guy's site where he did G.I. Joe PSI's?)
yeah, i agree. these fans are fanatic. i thought i was a big fan of mmj but good lord! this discussion is becoming absurd.
Quotecan't blame the leaker (when you love something so much you want to share it with others who will love it), can't blame the leakees either. it's not a diary, its a commodity - it was built especially to be distributed.
I blame the leaker. and although it is a commodity, it shouldn't be. For a lot of bands, thier music is a commodity. for this band, it shouldn't be treated that way.
I think the people downloading the album are doing it because they have anticipated a release for so long, and I'm sure most of them are downloading with the good intention of buying the album when it comes out. I completely understand everyone's eagerness to hear the whole album. However for me personally it just seems wrong. I think the people on this message board are good people who don't mean any harm in their actions. However there are a lot of other people who will just take the album knowing they will never buy it. I know this will happen regardless of the leak. There is a much larger societal issue raised here. The fact that so many people feel it is acceptable to take something that is not meant to be theirs, or to take without compensation and not recognize it for what it is: stealing. It is upsetting to me because I would feel devastated to have someone or a group of people take my efforts and hard work without my permission.
I may be the only person who is excited about an October release date. It will be well timed for me. It will come right in the middle of my last quarter of student teaching, a period when I will be overwhelmed with stress from teaching, taking classes, and working. I'll need something to keep me sane, and listening to the album will be a very salubrious experience for me.
i dont really know what else to say.. i'm a really big fan.. i love these guys.. i contribute alot to their cause.. this album leak will probably be for the better for them.. imagine how much buzz there will be around october 5th.. this album will sell way more than ISM.. i don't think the negatives outweight the positives.. for every 2 or 3 people who "steal" this record.. they'll probably 10 that buy it or go to the show and buy a t-shirt or a vinyl or something else. i for one know that for the past year i've done as much promoting for the band as any other joe out there. i pretty much force feed my friends MMJ during camping trips or roadtrips.. and anytime someone asks me for some new bands to listen for this one is always the first one i ever bring up.
all i know is im not going to listen to it until i buy it when it comes out.
there is just something special to me about getting a cd that is so highly anticipated and opening and listening for the first time on headphones!!!!
[size=13][/size]this is some DRAMA.
Brother against Brother. Civil War.
the Days of Our Lives. Jesus, People
SALUBRIOUS is a great word!
[size=13][/size]NICE ;)
You kids don't play so rough.
Somebody's gonna start crying.
j/k "You have me worried..."
Quotecan't blame the leaker (when you love something so much you want to share it with others who will love it), can't blame the leakees either. it's not a diary, its a commodity - it was built especially to be distributed.
Ok, yes I can blame the leaker. Like whoever it was before said, someone had to violate the band's trust to get this out. I've been emailing Tommy, and he said he didn't even know that Billboard had gotten an advance copy. So somebody's gettin it around, hopefully not ATO. What blows, is that I'm sure this is pissing hte guys off, and they probably are going to be tighter with stuff in the future. I would.
Also, this was NOT supposed to be released yet. Maybe they are done with the album production. There may be nothing left to do to it, but they want to make sure the album art or whatever is perfect. I don't really give a damn what it is, but no one's supposed to have this right now, so I think it would be nice to respect the band in that matter. No you DO NOT deserve to hear this if friends and family can. You are not friends and family. You may be a diehard fan, but if a member of the band has not personally decided to enlighten you with a copy and their trust, then you do not deserve to listen to it. The word "deserve" doesn't even belong in this discussion. You don't deserve anything, except some damn rockin tunes on October 4th because that's the release date.
So be it.
I deleted it. Full sonics await, it sure isn't the final product. I'd advise everyone who has it here to delete it as well. Peace!
QuoteI deleted it. Full sonics await, it sure isn't the final product. I'd advise everyone who has it here to delete it as well. Peace!
You just made my fucking day. WORD!!! ;D
Wow. This thread has been read 1283 times...kind of amazing...
Lots of views, yes! It's obviously a very hot issue! Here's an interview with Jeff Tweedy where he speaks about the whole downloading issue:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.02/view.html?pg=5
I agree with him and I think there's a key difference about downloading music that EC brought up with respect to Wilco and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot and the leak of 'Z.". Wilco approved the download and the fans were the lucky ones. In this case, I don't think that the Jacket wants 'Z' to be out there already, we're talking about a leak here, not downloading after it's been for sale.
For many years people have been making copies of records on tape for friends....and that will always be the case. We all make copies of official releases for ppl or make comp CDs, without permission of the artist. I really don't think this hurts sales, if you like the record you go out and buy more.
The leaking of any product before it's officially released is just wrong, imho!
Thanks for that JacketGirl. I liked what the Wilco fans did (the ones who got to hear and have the record by downloading it from the filesharing places before the release date). A lot (or some) of those fans donated money to Wilco's favorite charity.
So I'm proposing the MMJ fans here who have downloaded it donate 10 bucks (the cheapest way you'd get it via itunes) each to the Jacket's favorite charity.
What do you think? Since I have downloaded (but since got rid of) where do I send my 10 bucks to? The Hunger Site perhaps?
You sweet pea!!
Maybe we could all just donate a bunch of money anway. There's a medical clinic somewhere off Baxter/Bardstown road, isn't there? Like a free one or something?
What about that?
There is a release date for a reason!Its like a holiday in MMj world. Everyone can enjoy the record at the same time. Its a celebration. You dont celebrate the Memorial day , or the 4th of july On different days than other people.I dont see why this should be any different. I dont get christmas gifts in september!!!! And this is like a christmas gift to true MMJ fans. so wait for it!
well if you were a kid and could get your presents a few months earlier would you say, "no, it will be more special in december when all the kids get their presents!"...haha most of us would not
good point, but most of us are not eight years old and understand how to wait and that it makes things more special when you finally get them
;)
i think this record was meant to be a fall release anyway. sittin' on your deck, enjoying the cool breeze as you tip back a few whiskeys and listen to the 'new' record.
that's reason enough for me to wait right there.
nothin' better.
Good point mullet man!