So I've listened to it twice now. There's a lot of really good stuff on here, some that hasn't really impressed me. Mass/critial reaction is gonna be VERY interesting. I like the new direction, but some of the sounds, mainly keys and drum machine, just aren't very convincing. Some of the keys are very cheap sounding, notably the organ. Jim's voice is on the money as usual, and you can easily distinguish his lead guitar from Carl's, which is to say Jim is the better soloist as far as I can tell. More taste and personality. I'll keep listening but it's a curious album to say the least.
i think the "cheapness" was intentional. they are still pure and adding too much production would ahve ruined it for me. I am a diehard TF and AD lover, but i do like this album better than ISM.
please define how something sounds "cheap" (you might have to put more than your 2 cents in :o). Can you give me another album, perhaps by another artist, that sounds cheap? I have not heard Z, so I have no reference point.
Well if you haven't heard the album it's hard to explain. To me the organ didn't sound real, but like a patched in electric keyboard tone. Some of the tones didn't bother me, but some just didn't sound as warm as they have on their other records. I can see the argument that it was intentionally cheap, but I don't buy it when they can afford to wheel in a sweet vintage Hammond, Rhodes or classy grand piano. I guarantee you'd hear a difference if that's what they did; just compare it to any Stones or Kinks or whatever and you'll see what I mean. Nothing wrong with the playing though, and the strings/synth tones were cool.
And I still don't get the drum machine. It just doesn't add anything, not like it did with Cobra.
Are you talking about one song in particular, Danko? Or the whole album?
P.S., if you're posting from beyond the grave, I really dig your singing...
ok, can you point to anything on off the record?
Thats up on mySpace, and I think I can hear what your pointing to. The keys on it sound a little brittle and like their pushing, almost caliope-ish. But i think thats a cool sound, makes it a little eerie. And i like the different kind of soundscape that the drum machine adds on that track at the end. Where its just so mechanical and everything aorund has so much soul to it, its kind of a musical irony of sorts.
i likee what i've heard so far
i don't understand how you are distinguishing between guitar solos. Why do you assume that Jim is playing the more complicated riffs? I understand what you are saying about the keys but I wouldn't call them cheap, but that's my $.02
Personally I would stop trying to compare this album with their previous efforts. One of the main differences to my ears is the lack of reverb, perhaps that is the "warmth" that you are referring to.
i just don't think it was made cheap. it is how they wanted it for some reason. that is them. like it or not. have an opinion, but let's not go overboard on keys and such. the album sounds good to me and a enjoy the "cheap" sounds. peace. ;)
(Link, I love that first lyric at the bottom of your message, not to mention the song as a whole. It's too bad that it looks like Mark Kozelek won't be doing a cover of that song.)
Still not sure what you mean here. The Replacements LET IT BE is one of my favorite albums. It is "cheap" (ie, instruments, production, etc..) however, the sound is priceless. Do you feel cheated that the sound isn't "bigger" or that they did not spend enough money on instruments? Never heard music referred to as "cheap". Give Tom Waits a broom and he can produce more artistic feeling than a band like BLINK 182, who can have all the nicest, finest instruments on the planet. IMO :-*
Quote(Link, I love that first lyric at the bottom of your message, not to mention the song as a whole. It's too bad that it looks like Mark Kozelek won't be doing a cover of that song.)
isaac brock is def a great songwriter with an original outlook on life. does suck that my other favorite singer want be covering it. >:( later dude.
I should've known better than to speak my mind on this board. At least a few of you are open to debate. All I know is what I heard, and many of you are missing the point. Again, that's to be expected; god forbid I cross into borderline negativity.
I've heard better organ sounds is all I was saying; which to me sounded 'cheap' compared to, say, the Small Faces, which I'm listening to right now, which is fat, nasty and smooth. Not cheap and thin. That's it.
As far as lead guitar, when I saw them earlier in the summer, Jim was taking more solos, and I thought they were generally better than Carl's; not that his were particularly weak. And I noticed Jim's tone and phrasing more on the record, which was a pleasant surprise since I love to hear him cut loose. Nothing to do with how complicated the riffs are.
I swear, you people crack me up.
yeah, some of these people crack me up too. its good to hear someone who doesn't like something about this band. there are those who think everything about this band is just so wonderful and are afraid to disagree. most of the songs i have heard from 'z' sound like a joke. especially the end to "wordless chorus" and the one about "babies in a blender", wtf is that? its neither funny nor pleasent. are there any fucking drums on this record? the production sounds worse than ISM.
Yeah man, I hear ya. I can't say I agree with everything you said about the album, but I can see where you're coming from.
Again, the response will be interesting. I can see a lotta diehards running to the hills with their hands over their ears (but none will post here about it, not for long, anyway)...while many will buy into their growing myth and hop on the rising tide and claim it to be a masterpiece.
I'm still not sure what I think about it, which was qualified in THE FIRST SENTENCE OF THIS POST, but merely throwing some thoughts out.
Forgive me if I'm not up on the song titles, but some of it's as good as anything they've done, some of it is easily their worst material I've heard on record, some of it sounds like retreads from other previous, better songs, some of it's entirely different than anything they've done.
Whoa is me, I don't know. Have good weekends everyone.
Out of curiousity, are you listening to the final mix of the album or mp3's of the leaked version? Just think that the keys wouldn't sound as good on a pre-mastered mp3 then they would with the final thing.
Just a thought
papaJoeBear
Danko, I could give a zippity-doo-dah if you like Z or not; thousands will love it, thousands will hate it. I was trying to figure out what "cheap" meant. Be as negative as you want, but try not to be so vague next time. I understand you don't like the album as much as others, great. But your use of the word "cheap" leaves it wide open for me to bring other recordings that sound "cheap" that people consider to be masterpieces. Or are YOU the one who has the definitive say on what good music is? You're the one? Cool. I need you to come to my house and listen to all 22 of my RUSH cd's so I can know how "little" I understand about music and what I need to learn. Give me a break man. It's just music, don't get all uppitty about your opinion, as if you have the last word on what is good. I swear, the older I get, the less I can tolerate somoene who is going to tell me what sounds good and what doesn't. It's all subjective man, and if you go to a band's web site and insult the music, what do you expect, people to sit back and go, "Well, Danko must know, so maybe MMJ's new album isn't that great?" It doesn't work like that silly. There will always be people who will defend their favorite bands, so what? You think talking bad, talking about the "growing myth" is gonna make people take you a coming across as anything but negative? That Small Faces album you're listening to SUX ASS! Did I accomplish anything? No. It's just music...This is a waste of my time. Please send me a list of music I should own and who I should go see live. Thanks.
QuoteI need you to come to my house and listen to all 22 of my RUSH cd's
Can I come too? That sounds like a kickin' party.
i see both sides here. the comment was a bit vague, so some people asked for clarification. there are a number of people here that wont say one negative thing though, and yes that is a bit annoying, but everyone has an opinion. personally in regards to Z, most of the people ive chatted with agree that it will take some time to adjust to, and a lot of people wont like it for a long time, or not at all. personally, i still dont give a damn for 'anytime'. i think 'gideon' and 'what a wonderful man' are somewhat mediocre. i like 'what a wonderful man' live though, so we'll just see how some of them sound at the shows. i gots nothing but love for bo and the keys he provides, theyre fucking great. maybe its because theyre less guitar driven now? are they not indie enough? did they sell out because they used a proper studio? out of kentucky? ive also noticed a decent amount of disdain for ISM. are some of you really professing so much love for MMJ based on half of their recorded material? you cant like it all, but man....
I'm sure I crack some of you up all the fucking time, and perhaps that's all good if you're laughing.
I still don't understand why it makes you SO DAMN UPSET if people AREN'T saying bad things. I just. don't. get. it.
But whatever, I'm fucking excited about this record, so who cares! :D
p.s. Can I come to the Rush party, too? ;)
I think what pushed me over the edge was when Danko posted "it's a curious album". AAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Living in Nashville (you know, Music City?) I am bombarded with musical snobbery and one-up-manship that I could just puke. There's a bit of the indie sell out crap that goes on (a whole faction of people who hate Kings of Leon, based solely on their success). It's just music folks. If you say, "Z is a bit cheap at times yet it's curious", I am going to wonder what the fuck you're talking about, cuz it sure doesn't sound like you're talking about rock and roll man, it sounds more like you're talking about some skank whore asking for directions.
I have to be careful not to preach
I can't pretend that I can teach,
And yet I've lived your future out
By pounding stages like a clown.
And on the dance floor broken glass,
And bloody faces slowly pass,
The numbered seats in empty rows,
It all belongs to me you know.
Pete Townsend
Quoteit sounds more like you're talking about some skank whore asking for directions.
That is very very funny. Good work.
and you know, I'd love to have you all over for a 2 day RUSH-A-THON, but I believe all my Dungeons and Dragons pieces are buried somwhere in the attic and I haven't smoked pot in years! Perhaps in another life, but, in the meantime, I'll raise my goblet of coffee to RUSH fans eveywhere as I air-drum my way into total bliss, with Camera Eye turned up to 11! (yes, Friday night still rocks, 41 years into it and drug free!) ;D ;D ;D
Quoteand you know, I'd love to have you all over for a 2 day RUSH-A-THON, but I believe all my Dungeons and Dragons pieces are buried somwhere in the attic and I haven't smoked pot in years! Perhaps in another life, but, in the meantime, I'll raise my goblet of coffee to RUSH fans eveywhere as I air-drum my way into total bliss, with Camera Eye turned up to 11! (yes, Friday night still rocks, 41 years into it and drug free!) ;D ;D ;D
Witch Hunt is a better tune, IMHO... ;)
well, you're wrong Conway b/c the bells on Witch Hunt sound cheap to me. They could have used better bells, perhaps, some more expensive bells (although, the lyrics make it a rather curious song). :-X
QuoteOr are YOU the one who has the definitive say on what good music is? You're the one? Cool. I need you to come to my house and listen to all 22 of my RUSH cd's so I can know how "little" I understand about music and what I need to learn.
ycartrob,
I have nothing to do with this keyboard/cheap/good/bad conversation, but I'm wondering what was meant by the RUSH comment. It kind of sounds like you were suggesting that someone who listens to RUSH has an "understanding" of music. Did I read that correctly?
By the way, I'm not picking at you, I'm honestly curious. I just want to make sure I understood your post.
Thanks,
Gripe.
No gripe, not saying being a RUSH fan means I understand music, quite the contrary. There are people who loathe Rush, people who hate them, people who do not consider their music on any level. And you know what? I love Rush. I really do. My point is, it's just music, and you can point out all the flaws and cracks and Geddy's voice and cheesey lyrics, etc... and it still makes no difference about how I F E E L when I hear Rush. It's just music and everyone has different tastes. Danko was talking about a "cheap" sound on the new MMJ album like that's a bad thing b/c HE does not like it. Like HE has the final say on what is "good" or not. I don't know, critiquing music, calling it "curious" and what not is mental masturbation and only serves self and those who need someone else to tell them what they like and don't like. Hey, lets analyze the latest Radiohead CD, shall we? Or maybe lets just listen to it; I'll take the latter.
QuoteNo gripe, not saying being a RUSH fan means I understand music, quite the contrary. There are people who loathe Rush, people who hate them, people who do not consider their music on any level. And you know what? I love Rush. I really do. My point is, it's just music, and you can point out all the flaws and cracks and Geddy's voice and cheesey lyrics, etc... and it still makes no difference about how I F E E L when I hear Rush. It's just music and everyone has different tastes. Danko was talking about a "cheap" sound on the new MMJ album like that's a bad thing b/c HE does not like it. Like HE has the final say on what is "good" or not. I don't know, critiquing music, calling it "curious" and what not is mental masturbation and only serves self and those who need someone else to tell them what they like and don't like. Hey, lets analyze the latest Radiohead CD, shall we? Or maybe lets just listen to it; I'll take the latter.
"Talking About Music Is Like Dancing About Archetecture."
Music is so personal. I like to think that the people that come to this forum have an unsaid understanding and bond through the songs. I could really care less what someone thinks about how the keyboards sound because it's so much bigger than that. Personally one of my favorite things about the new album is Bo's keyboard contributions. But, my very favorite thing are the SONGS. When you come across a songwritter and band leader as special as Jim James the music is just iceing on the cake. Fortunatly I'm a fan of the iceing these days as well. To me Rush is a whole shit ton of iceing and not much cake, and to much iceing makes me sick. I love Tracy because I can totally understand that feeling he has when listening to Rush and that's all that really matters. Plus, I think he is one intelligent and witty motherfucker. I also think that Z is all about "Into The Woods", it will be the most talked about and hihgly debated song on the album. The more I listen to that song the more I wonder if it's not the best thing on the record. It's very exciting musical territory. Not for the faint of heart or the casual listener but very rewarding.
One thing that I think will be interesting, as the album hits the streets, is old fans are not going to know what to make of it at least for a while. But the new fans that are drawn in by 'Z' or E-town will not know what to make of ISM, At Dawn, or Tennesse Fire. They'll all be posting stuff about "How come it sounds like he's singing at the bottom of a well" or "this sound like it was recored in my basement, wtf" Different strokes for different folks.
Just to quickly address Danko. I think you're being a little too sensitive. If you want to have a conversation you have to be prepared to hear different viewpoints.
That being said, I'm still not convinced about the guitar work, if I may. Now you are suggesting that Jim's solo are not more complicated but ARE evidence of more talent. Now I'm really confused. I mean, Jim has come into his own as a lead guitarist lately but why would he hire a lead guitarist who couldn't play lead guiatr as well as he could? You could be right but I can't tell who guitar is who and I don't know how you are. Perhaps we could have a friendly discussion about it...
Woah. Danko was just offering his 2 cents. It was the 2 cents he was holding at the time. It might be a different 2 cents he's holding next week. I'd hate this to be a place where people were scared to say what they're thinking in case they don't use the right words, are not clear enough or whatever. Sure ask for clarification but no need to bite.
It's funny to me that there's another thread started recently where people can post their poetry. It's cool for people to use different words to express different feelings. I'm not sure what cheap means either in this context but it's food for thought. I'll have it in mind next time I listen and see if it makes any sense to me.
(Just my 2 pence ;))
I think people that post criticisms about the band and their music ought to expect a few negative comments back.Everybody has a right to disagree as long as it doesn't get too personal.
Not too personal from me (hopefully); I understand it's just my opinion and I am cynical. I am just having fun. I couldn't be more excited about the new album and the Nashville show. It's a little like Christmas.
QuoteIt's a little like Christmas.
It's a lot like Christmas. I love/hate the waiting part. But it's nice to look forward to something when you've waited for a long time. :)
Danko, you make some interesting comments. People should understand that whatever someone says, is their opinion and not the all-knowing force of the universe. Whatever he thinks sounds cheap or unconvincing could be heavenly and awesome in another's mind. Like mine ;)
I've been listening to the album for a little while now and after the first and second listen I sort of felt the same as Danko. I really didn't know what to think at first but I did know I just couldn't stop listening to it. Now, after 10 listens or something I'm gonna have to declare this album a masterpiece. Damn did this baby grow on me. It's really an album that you shouldn't judge after one or two listens. Hang in there and you will be rewarded. I'll try to write a detailed review later.
PS: RealDeal, nobody really takes you seriously, do they? ;D I think I know why.
yea, this is tired. it was obviously cheap to record in a silo last time. seems obvious to me the band wanted these sounds to sound the way they do and people either like em or don't. i wouldn't go over analyzing it though. i like a more lo-fi sound, but this album really grew on me right away. why? i can't say. just like it. peace.
ycartrob,
This really is none of my business, but I find the strength of peoples' arguments kind of interesting.
QuoteThere are people who loathe Rush, people who hate them, people who do not consider their music on any level.
QuoteIt's just music and everyone has different tastes.
Both of these statements sound fine to me, but then you contradict yourself by saying this:
QuoteDanko was talking about a "cheap" sound on the new MMJ album like that's a bad thing b/c HE does not like it.
By saying this you've denied Danko the right to his "different tastes". If he talks about a "cheap" sound like it's a bad thing, it
is a bad thing
to him.
QuoteLike HE has the final say on what is "good" or not.
He certainly does not, which is why he repeatedly pointed out that it was his merely his two cents he was offering.
QuoteI don't know, critiquing music, calling it "curious" and what not is mental masturbation and only serves self and those who need someone else to tell them what they like and don't like. Hey, lets analyze the latest Radiohead CD, shall we? Or maybe lets just listen to it; I'll take the latter.
We analyze everything, though - good songs, bad songs, everything. Consciously or not, listening to music involves constant critiquing; we wouldn't have favourites without our ability to make decisions based on our own particular tastes. And what's so bad about something being "curious"? I think you may have brought the negative connotation along with you.
QuoteGive me a break man. It's just music, don't get all uppitty about your opinion, as if you have the last word on what is good. I swear, the older I get, the less I can tolerate somoene who is going to tell me what sounds good and what doesn't.
This part was obviously unnecessary.
Anyway, I'm going to go back to not giving a shit what anyone on Earth thinks about my opinion of any music I like or dislike. They're free to think and say whatever they'd like (as long as their arguments are sound...).
gee wiz Gripe, for someone who says this isn't your business, you sure made it your business, so right off the bat, you contradicted yourself(as well as in some of your points(man, this is some really stupid shit, but I am going to go with it ;)). I really never had an argument, just wanted clarity on the word "cheap" and to question Danko's use of language; there's no argument there. Your argument (and yes, you argued some of my points) reeks of relativism (and funny how you picked apart my points and not Danko's). So, for the sake of relativism, I never posted anthing and you can't actually prove anything. In fact, I don't exist, neither do you. Have fun. :o
Quotegee wiz Gripe, for someone who says this isn't your business, you sure made it your business, so right off the bat, you contradicted yourself(as well as in some of your points
Although I was being intentionally ironic, I did contradict myself there. Guilty as charged (except for my points - they're fine).
Quote(and funny how you picked apart my points and not Danko's)
Danko's points didn't require picking apart - it sounded to me like he was just giving his opinion of some sounds on the album. In my opinion he could have found a better way to say "you guys crack me up sometimes", but you in particular were riding him pretty hard and suggesting he was telling you how to think about music, which he wasn't doing at all, so I can see why his back was up.
Anyway, I'm not looking to get
your back up (I'd tell you what I think about post-1978 RUSH if I wanted to do that), and I don't know enough about relativism to offer any kind of reply to it, so I'm going to go back to listening to my 1-minute samples of Gideon and Into The Woods (the only bits of Z I've heard so far). When I listen I think 'it' moves.
you know gripe, you really need to go back and re-read the thread. I didn't start into Danko until he made the following comments: "I should have known better to speak my mind on this board"(and I guess that infers we are closed minded here), "you people crack me up", "I can see a lotta diehards running to the hills with their hands over their ears (but none will post here about it, not for long, anyway)...while many will buy into their growing myth and hop on the rising tide and claim it to be a masterpiece", "some of it is easily their worst material I've heard on record". You go to a bands web site and say shit like that and you expect everyone to just say, "well golly gee, that's just his opinion". Fuck that shit man. The whole time I was trying to figure out what the fuck he meant by cheap (and again, some of the best, most famous and moving music ever recorded sounds "cheap" (if that's what he means by cheap)), however, when he goes into comments like he made, it's time for me to have some fun and maybe enlighten him to how he is coming across, which is vague(at best)and pompous.
A little story : You ever heard Bob Dylan's LIKE A ROLLING STONE? You want to talk about cheap? You want to talk about Al Kooper on the organ, who was put on the organ at the last second b/c Mike Bloomfield was the session guitar player, a much better guitar player than Kooper, and Kooper had never played the organ and Tom Wilson told Dylan that Kooper sucked and they weren't going to use him, and Dylan said to keep Kooper on the organ b/c he liked the way it sounded, intentionally not "perfect".
Or just listen to Neil Young's TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT (some say the greatest rock record ever) and tell me that ain't some of the "cheapest" shit you ever heard, and one of the most moving albums I have ever heard. They didn't even tune up before recordings man, they just played.
And of course, the Replacements LET IT BE that I mentioned in my 2nd post. Cheap!
My point? Perhaps the word "cheap" should not be used in a negative vain (as Danko used it). But, once he made the comments he made, I went past the point of trying to educate him (or try to figure out what he was saying) and let him know that I could be a dick, too.
Thanks for all your love and support folks, and I swear to God I am not losing my mind, just encouraging people to think. Critique that. :D
Listen dudes. Just sit tight, and I will deliver the CHEAPEST album ever made. Ever.
Just a couple of months.
And then y'all can crack up and talk about the cheapness of it. No jokes.
:)
I could swear I just read the word "enlighten" in your post. Nah, I couldn't have. That implies the taking of some sort of position of authority and then passing on some knowledge to the less informed. Since you accuse Danko of doing such a thing - something he didn't do in any way - it would be wrong of you to do it in return, so I obviously misread your post.
You listed "cheap"-sounding albums/songs that you happen to like. I have no idea why. Who are you trying to convince? I personally love Tonight's The Night (and mabye Danko does too; who knows?) and I like the "cheapness" of Like A Rolling Stone (although I'm fucking tired of that song), but that doesn't change the fact that Danko doesn't like the sound of the keys on Z. And why should he? Maybe he likes warmer sounds. What's wrong with that? Do you see that by telling him/us that you like certain "cheap" sounds you're doing nothing more than displacing his opinion with your own? If anyone is trying to tell others how to feel about music, you are that person.
He did not say that those of us who like "cheap" sounds are wrong or stupid or misinformed or odorous; he merely offered his opinion of how he felt about the audio content of an album. He even went in to specifics about the keys and the guitar, so he wasn't as vague as you're making out, either.
Ah, fuck it. I just realized how lame this conversation is. Whatever you post next is the last word.
I love you all...*winky-poo*
Gripe, if I "enlighten" my brother that he can go ahead and make 2 peanut butter sandwiches because there's more peanut butter than he thought, that doesn't put me in a position of "authority" whatsover; it's simply the passing of knowledge. You're confused. :-/
Nope.
gripe, you tell me I get the last word, and you respond.
you say it's none of your business, then you post a manifesto.
how 'bout this, Z sounds cheap and some of it is easily the worst material that MMJ has put on record.
that's the sound of me closing the door gripe.
good luck :-[
I lied about the last word. I will post responses until I keel over and die.
By the way, what's a door gripe?
Whoo boy, look what I started. I must say I'm cracking up right now. I don't even know where to start, nor do I have the time. I will say that I've been into MMJ longer than many people on this board (first show early '00), and I have every right to say whatever I want. I like to debate and analyze music; it's fun, at least with people who are willing to give and take and look at things from different points of view...as opposed to people who twist your words into something entirely different, and harp on one single word until their blue in the face.
Having said all that, I listened to the album more this weekend and it is growing on me. There was some initial shock, and that's why I like throwing thoughts out there, to see what others thought. Again, I should've known better than to say anything critical on this board, since most mistake that kind of talk as 'attacks' on the band, which is not true; the more sensible of you out there know that.
p.s. I like Rush, as well as Dylan and Neil's Tonight's the Night. And the Replacement's Let it Be. But none of that had anything to do with what I was talking about.
i dont even care about the "cheap" factor of the debate here. i think the 'i knew about them before you' logic is the funniest of all. i was in to the jacket before it was cool, man! oh my.....
Yeah, who cares how long you've been a fan of The Jacket? We aren't in high school, kids, we're on a message board of a band we all like. That make us all pretty cool in my book. I also don't like how people are saying that people are afraid to say anything bad about the jacket, because they think anything MMJ does has to be good. I have no problem saying I don't like something that a band has done. I, for one, just happen to like everything they have done. They are growing as a band. Some bands grow and kind of lose the sound that got me into them, like THe Sea and Cake. Theses guys just have made all the right moves as far as their sound, in my humble opinion.
Anyway, while you folks argue and the bickering gets more and more silly with each post, just remember that we all post here because of one thing. MMJ.
Rock
PapaJoeBear
Well I pulled out my show experience to validate my comments. MMJ is one of the bands that I got early on, and I may be a little more protective or overly sensitive towards them, or maybe harder on them in some ways. But it does make a difference if you've seen/heard a band longer. Doesn't mean I'm a 'better' fan though. Basically I've earned my right to say what I feel about this band, regardless of whether or not anyone agrees with me. It'd be different for me to say that if I only heard MMJ through the Coors commercial or whatever. I'm just pissed I'll have to wait to see them since I'll be out of town when they come to Chicago.
most awesome debating, folks...keep it comin'...
I don't think that people should shy from writing anything critical of the band, but if you do you are probably going to be debated since this board is full of MMJ fans who love to debate. If you're looking to totally trash mmj I hear that the Wilco forum is a good place to do so and not too many will debate you. I think that many of the 'old school' fans will be posting such criticisms in the coming weeks with 'Z' and E-town coming out soon. So, let's get it on!
I hear ya, but a debate is an exchange of ideas, give and take, looking at things from different angles...and I don't see a lot of that on this board. It's basically 'MMJ is king, and if you don't like it, you're crazy, or something is wrong with you; please leave'. Sorry but it's true. But again, we'll see what the bigger response is when the 'official' album comes out. Myself, I'm starting to like it. Can't get a couple tunes out of my head, so there ya go.
Quote If you're looking to totally trash mmj I hear that the Wilco forum is a good place to do so and not too many will debate you.
Really? I wouldn't have thought that. I might have a look.
QuoteI'm starting to like it. Can't get a couple tunes out of my head, so there ya go.
It's often that way with me. Sometimes I surprise myself when I remember I didn't warm to a song at first.
Every album has grown on me with time and 'Z' is no exception. And the good doctor is right, I can't believe I didn't much enjoy the Tennesse Fire the first time I heard but that's the way it goes with good music (and movies for that matter).
You're so right. It took me ages to get into The Tennessee Fire. Somebody said recently (I think it might have been you, aMillionDreams) that the first album you hear affects how you perceive the others and I'd definately agree. The first album I got was At Dawn, closely followed by It Still Moves. I just didn't 'get' TTF after falling in love with those two. The thing that made me go back and really listen to it, strangely, was hearing songs on the first tribute album that weren't familiar to me. I absolutely love it now, so that's why I won't be upset if Z doesn't say anything to me on first hearing.
QuoteI hear ya, but a debate is an exchange of ideas, give and take, looking at things from different angles...and I don't see a lot of that on this board. It's basically 'MMJ is king, and if you don't like it, you're crazy, or something is wrong with you; please leave'.
I don't think anyone here wants you to leave, Danko.
I'm glad that someone can say, hey, I not feeling this tone, song, vibe, ect. And I would like to think that if anyone here feels that way about something the band is doing, that they would speak and speak their mind. The fact that there is not alot of negative stuff coming from the board members might mean that they dig just about all that the band has and is doing.
But I've seen several discussions about people not liking the newer stuff compaired to the 1st 2 albums. Several conversations.
And, after thinking about it, there is 1 song that MMJ has done that I don't care much for at all. That song Holy on the C&I ep. Never could ge into it.
Not sure if I had a point going into this post, but I know I've totally lost the point now. Whatever.
Rock
PapajoeBear
QuoteI don't think that people should shy from writing anything critical of the band, but if you do you are probably going to be debated since this board is full of MMJ fans who love to debate.
I quite agree - we all love the MMJ but no band is perfect (although MMJ is about as close as they come!) & everyone has the right to voice their opinion.
I just think that when it becomes a personal slagging match between 2 people, that's kind of sad. We should be able to debate constructively & still respect one anothers opinions.
no one has ever been asked to leave, short of abusive folks. the "debate" is why there is a message board in the first place. if you don't agree, then debate it...but give good, solid, logical, informed reasons as to why you feel that way. i of course will call out all bullshitters, so i'm not sure if that makes me "difficult" or nazi like or whatever this is aimed at...but be informed, not just "this tune sucks". give reasons!
Quoteno one has ever been asked to leave, short of abusive folks. the "debate" is why there is a message board in the first place. if you don't agree, then debate it...but give good, solid, logical, informed reasons as to why you feel that way. i of course will call out all bullshitters, so i'm not sure if that makes me "difficult" or nazi like or whatever this is aimed at...but be informed, not just "this tune sucks". give reasons!
Oh, bite me! ;)
Unfortunately, the only songs that I have heard from "Z" are live versions from various shows and much love for 'em. One thing I do know is great, timeless artists and when you look at bands such as Pink Floyd or The Beatles, there is a natural evolution to each new album. If Floyd released 15 Syd albums like Pipers, I think we'd all be a little too tripped out. I feel it is best to embrace the change and respect the artists of whom we are obvious nerds for.
I think Z will appeal to people who like the Chocolate and Ice EP. Which is interesting because that was mainly a Jim-solo deal. You could make the argument that that's the direction things are going now, but I'm all for hearing where they're going. I personally think they'd get a great album just with Jim and the rhythm section, since Jim can play just about anything.
And after hearing it more, I'm pretty sure Jim takes most if not all of the lead guitar solos. I haven't heard Carl enough to discern his style, but I can definitely pick out Jim's. Thing is, it's not, as some have said, that he's 'developed'; but rather the fact that he's had these skills all along, and now he's putting them more to the forefront, since he depended on John to provide that muscle in the past. Again, not trying to diss Carl but I still don't have a feel for his original style yet.
Thats an interesting take, Danko. The only way I could see the comparison to Chocolate and Ice is that there alot of diffrent sounds on the new album. And I kind of thought that the difference in sound on this one was more because of the 2 new guys in the band. It just seems to me that they brought a bunch to the table as far of ideas. And I don't think Jim takes all the solos, but I could be wrong there. Guess we will find that out on tour! ;D
PapaJoeBear