Not to knock anyone's personal beliefs, but I've seen it stated many times that the Jim Jam sings about Jesus/Christianity a lot in many of the songs. Obviously there is Gideon, and songs like I Think I'm Going To Hell, but why are so many people convinced that they sing about God all the time? I just don't hear it. I've heard people talk about how OBH is about heaven. I'm just not getting that. And what's with calling it Lay Lord instead of Lay Low? Even if they were to sing about religion a lot, that does not make them a religious band necessarily, it just means that they have songs that touch on the subject of religion. Where is this Jesus-centricity coming from?
Since Jim James is so weird, people make the connection so they can have at least something in common with him. ::)
b/c Jim James is Jesus...where have you been?
I believe some of their lyrics can be straight-forward regarding religion or spirituality while others could be deciphered very differently from person to person. That's what TRUE ART accomplishes
Golden - 'And on Heaven's golden shore we'll lay our heads'
What a Wonderful Man - 'And like a loving flock we obey - EXCEPT 4 HIM - He went His own way'
Mahgeetah - 'can he see me? does he feel me? does he know me at all?'
Easy Morning Rebel - 'well the easy mornin rebel, well he has come. come down from heaven, all bathed in sun'
Steam Engine - 'to anyone who wondered what old jesus meant to me'
Strangulation - 'but I know there's someone that loves up above and want to fix you a dream'
I think there is a clear line between being spiritual and being religious that some people just don't get. While I find MMJ to be spiritual band I really don't see much religion in it.
It's comments like this:
(Quote from "Why's It Surreal" Thread)
Why's it surreal when my hands feel they cant roll the dice?
that one always gets me.
This lyric is about Jim James coming into one with the word of Christ (The Way that He Sings) and not being able to masturbate (rolling the dice) due to guilt and faith. (unquote)
That make me say WTF!!?!?!? ..... maybe he was joking, but I've seen many like this. Oh well, however it moves you I guess.
QuoteOh well, however it moves you I guess.
Exactly.
By the way, Lay Lord is the way Jim puts it on the setlist now. That's where that came from.
Quote
(Quote from "Why's It Surreal" Thread)
Why's it surreal when my hands feel they cant roll the dice?
that one always gets me.
This lyric is about Jim James coming into one with the word of Christ (The Way that He Sings) and not being able to masturbate (rolling the dice) due to guilt and faith. (unquote)
That make me say WTF!!?!?!? ..... maybe he was joking, but I've seen many like this. Oh well, however it moves you I guess.
That one was mine. And I was totally joking (or was I?).
Point being, does it really matter what the artist is trying to say
or isn't it more important what
you derive from the lyrics (or music).
There's a couple other threads from the past that talk about the exact place where this thread is going, but I say go for it.
so,
from Z:
Wordless Chorus is about prayer (duhh!)
It Beats For You is about Jesus' heart (WHO COULD SEE AND NOT BELIEVE?)
Gideon is God
What A Wonderful Man = Jesus
Off the Record is about trying to keep sinful secrets from God (as if!)
Into the Woods is about seeking out the Lord through the absurdities of life
Anytime is about when it's right to accept Jesus
Lay Low is really Lay Lord
Knot Comes Loose means the knot of life (fear, haterd, etc...) is coming undone through God
DonDante is about the 2nd coming.
'nuff said
QuoteQuote
(Point being, does it really matter what the artist is trying to say or isn't it more important what you derive from the lyrics (or music).
Right on!!!
In the words of Jim James himself: "Love a song for the way it makes you feel"
He certainly doesn't wear it on his sleeve and music is so self interpretive that songs can mean different things to different people. Check out Ed Vedder speaking about Alive on Storytellers from last yr, that pretty much says it all.
Jesus Christ, people.....
"What a Wonderful Man" is NOT about Jesus.
Fuck.
i talked to jesus about all this and he's cool with whatev.
Oh, word?
:)
ehhhh I do not get the whole religion/Jesus stuff either. It may be because I am not specifically looking for it and I'm not really getting that vibe either. It can be spiritually moving (and yes JJ and the rest of the crew moves us all) and not be religious in the Judeo-Christian vein.
oh and I talk to Satan on a regular basis and he knows WAWM ain't about him. ;)
(http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/South-Park-tv-b39.jpg)
Well, At least we all know what Mahgeeta is about! .... or do we!?!? ;)
that's not really satan, that's a south park cartoon...
Dude, they have special guest apperances, didn't you see when Robet Smith was on there.
QuoteJesus Christ, people.....
"What a Wonderful Man" is NOT about Jesus.
Fuck.
Um...yeah it is.
Maybe it is to you, but that song is about a friend of his that commited suicide.
"They Ran" is a religious song.
i just can't believe the fucking wise men ran away with his lighter...
::)
QuoteMaybe it is to you, but that song is about a friend of his that commited suicide.
a friend of jesus' committed suicide? hhmmmm, never heard that one.
are you sure about that?
Yes. Very completely positive. Like, for real.
8-)
I did wonder about this very subject for lots of reasons but particularly because of the fact that on the back side of the NYE Fillmore MMJ cash that fell from the sky that night there was an image of a cross with the words "In Hoc Signo Vinces" around it (there is a psuedo Masonic emblem), but:
"In hoc signo vinces" Pronunciation: (in h[ch333]k' sig'n[ch333] wing'k[ch257]s; Eng. in hok' sig'n[ch333] vin's[ch275]z), [key] Latin. in this sign shalt thou conquer: motto used by Constantine the Great, from his vision, before battle, of a cross bearing these words.
"After the conversion, so-called, of Constantine the Great (A.D. 313), the cross first came into use as an emblem of Christianity. He pretended at a critical moment that he saw a flaming cross in the heavens bearing the inscription, "In hoc signo vinces", i.e., By this sign thou shalt conquer, and that on the following night Christ himself appeared and ordered him to take for his standard the sign of this cross. In this form a new standard, called the Labarum, was accordingly made, and borne by the Roman armies. It remained the standard of the Roman army till the downfall of the Western empire."
Clearly, there's something spiritual going on in lots of ways - or whatever you want to call it. But no matter how you slice it, dice it and regurgitate it, I personally feel much more at peace with someone like JJ's God than say, W's. I'm just saying.
well Corey, anyway, speaking of Jim James eluding to Christ in all his lyrics, what's the word on the street about Saban's first season with the Tide?
I've heard that practice is going very well. I haven't read that much though. Jim also says that Saban might be the second coming of Christ in "Sooner".
Quotewell Corey, anyway, speaking of Jim James eluding to Christ in all his lyrics, what's the word on the street about Saban's first season with the Tide?
The word is..............they will still suck balls.
QuoteI've heard that practice is going very well. I haven't read that much though. Jim also says that Saban might be the second coming of Christ in "Sooner".
now,
now we're gettin' somewhere...
My friend and I made up a new cheer for Alabama.......
Smelly Pappy
Toothless Mammy
Give Em Hell........Alabamy
aren't all the lyrics about anything and everything? isn't that the whole point of cryptic writing? They mean something and mean nothing at the same time.
People had the same arguements about The Dead's lyrics.
I think you're right DFP. Like a Rorschach test.
I think it'd be interesting to see how many people here would be disappointed (if not utterly repulsed) if Jim were to write a song that was blatantly Christian.
QuoteI think it'd be interesting to see how many people here would be disappointed (if not utterly repulsed) if Jim were to write a song that was blatantly Christian.
well, I wouldn't be disappointed or repulsed, how about you?
i don't know why it's such a topic of debate. Jim has come out and said his religious beliefs, but then I know that many of you think what Jim believes his lyrics are about is secondary compared to what YOU think the lyrics are about (hence the what a wonderful man discussion). But if you're really interested in someone's opinion other than your own, namely the songwriter's, check out the video of jim doing that's heaven to me from regs and the end of the Austin City Limits and you'll have your answer.
Given Jim's thoughts at the beginning of that's heaven to me, i would not be repulsed or disappointed if they did a blatantly christian song. but then again how could anything be blatantly about anything if it's completely up to interpretation?
btw, I think "I Feel Like Making Love" is about the Battle of Hastings, prove me wrong!
jesus owes me seven dollars and sixty cents.
Why I think there's a debate:
Opinionated Christians: "I think James' lyrics are about Jesus and maybe non-religious people shouldn't like his music so much because of that."
Opinionated Non-Churched: "I think James' lyrics aren't about Jesus and maybe religious people shouldn't like his music so much because of that."
The rest of us: My Morning Jacket makes great music and I really love it!
What if Jim were to perform a song that was blatenly christian, like say, I don't know, maybe Silent Night or maybe even Oh Holy Night? Would that piss anyone off?
And then, what if he were to stop right in the middle and take his shoes off? Would that make it better? Or worse?
QuoteWhat if Jim were to perform a song that was blatenly christian, like say, I don't know, maybe Silent Night or maybe even Oh Holy Night? Would that piss anyone off?
And then, what if he were to stop right in the middle and take his shoes off? Would that make it better? Or worse?
A Silent Night is about Jesus? To me it's about Hilter's invasion of Poland and of course my truth is just as valid as your truth. And O Holy Night is about the dangers of unprotected sex, right? To each his own, i guess.
QuoteWhat if Jim were to perform a song that was blatenly christian, like say, I don't know, maybe Silent Night or maybe even Oh Holy Night? Would that piss anyone off?
And then, what if he were to stop right in the middle and take his shoes off? Would that make it better? Or worse?
Shit, man, what if MMJ was to produce an entire fucking LP dedicated to Christmas?!
QuoteQuoteWhat if Jim were to perform a song that was blatenly christian, like say, I don't know, maybe Silent Night or maybe even Oh Holy Night? Would that piss anyone off?
And then, what if he were to stop right in the middle and take his shoes off? Would that make it better? Or worse?
Shit, man, what if MMJ was to produce an entire fucking LP dedicated to Christmas?!
See. To me that whole EP is about hitler's invasion of Poland. "MMJ" is slang for hitler, "does" is obviously a synonym for "invades", and "xmas fiasco" in this context means Poland. Isn't interpreting lyrics fun?
but seriously, I thought christians weren't supposed to x out christ.
What if Jim decided to make this his next shirt he wears for an entire tour?
(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/TEE_TEEN/BLM-01-500~Jesus-is-My-Homeboy-Posters.jpg)
that shirt is SO 2005
I decided to put my two cents in with this line from The Way That He Sings..
It's just the way that he sings,
not the words that he says, or the band.
I'm in love with this soul, it's a meaning that I understand.
I tend to lean on the side that music is more important than words. Because people interpret words, they feel music. But thats just a crazy guy from Kentucky.
QuoteI decided to put my two cents in with this line from The Way That He Sings..
It's just the way that he sings,
not the words that he says, or the band.
I'm in love with this soul, it's a meaning that I understand.
I tend to lean on the side that music is more important than words. Because people interpret words, they feel music. But thats just a crazy guy from Kentucky.
I didn't know Jesus sang or was in a band, but you learn something new everyday. I suppose it's impossible to be in love with anyone's soul other than Jesus', right? I always thought the way that he sings is about this year's season premiere of southpark, for example:
why's it so strange when they say that the world's moving upwards
could it be anymore clear?
QuoteQuoteI decided to put my two cents in with this line from The Way That He Sings..
It's just the way that he sings,
not the words that he says, or the band.
I'm in love with this soul, it's a meaning that I understand.
I tend to lean on the side that music is more important than words. Because people interpret words, they feel music. But thats just a crazy guy from Kentucky.
I didn't know Jesus sang or was in a band, but you learn something new everyday. I suppose it's impossible to be in love with anyone's soul other than Jesus', right? I always thought the way that he sings is about this year's season premiere of southpark, for example:
why's it so strange when they say that the world's moving upwards
could it be anymore clear?
whatever, dude. everybody knows that the way that he sings is about freebasing smarties in bob newhart's chevy van and then kicking infants into swimming pools.
and for the record, jesus
was in a band. you think stevie nicks
really played that tambourine on rumours? she just posed with that shit. liner notes, peeps. liner notes.
QuoteI believe some of their lyrics can be straight-forward regarding religion or spirituality while others could be deciphered very differently from person to person. That's what TRUE ART accomplishes
Golden - 'And on Heaven's golden shore we'll lay our heads'
What a Wonderful Man - 'And like a loving flock we obey - EXCEPT 4 HIM - He went His own way'
Mahgeetah - 'can he see me? does he feel me? does he know me at all?'
Easy Morning Rebel - 'well the easy mornin rebel, well he has come. come down from heaven, all bathed in sun'
Steam Engine - 'to anyone who wondered what old jesus meant to me'
Strangulation - 'but I know there's someone that loves up above and want to fix you a dream'
QuoteQuote
(Quote from "Why's It Surreal" Thread)
Why's it surreal when my hands feel they cant roll the dice?
that one always gets me.
This lyric is about Jim James coming into one with the word of Christ (The Way that He Sings) and not being able to masturbate (rolling the dice) due to guilt and faith. (unquote)
That make me say WTF!!?!?!? ..... maybe he was joking, but I've seen many like this. Oh well, however it moves you I guess.
That one was mine. And I was totally joking (or was I?).
Point being, does it really matter what the artist is trying to say or isn't it more important what you derive from the lyrics (or music).
There's a couple other threads from the past that talk about the exact place where this thread is going, but I say go for it.
so,
from Z:
Wordless Chorus is about prayer (duhh!)
It Beats For You is about Jesus' heart (WHO COULD SEE AND NOT BELIEVE?)
Gideon is God
What A Wonderful Man = Jesus
Off the Record is about trying to keep sinful secrets from God (as if!)
Into the Woods is about seeking out the Lord through the absurdities of life
Anytime is about when it's right to accept Jesus
Lay Low is really Lay Lord
Knot Comes Loose means the knot of life (fear, haterd, etc...) is coming undone through God
DonDante is about the 2nd coming.
'nuff said
That could be true although I never thought of it that way. (Lay Lord instead of "Lay Low" is an interesting idea, although I'd thought that the song was about sex or something, from the lyrics... ::))
It would be interesting if "What A Wonderful Man", "The Way He Sings", and other songs where he talks to the male persuasion, were about Jesus/God or Jim's late grandpa, rather than what I was afraid about JJ. [size=9](Singing about guys, I was afraid he was...ya know... :-/)[/size]
Anyway, even if Jim & the rest of MMJ aren't tremendously blatenly "religious" today, I could see how JJ would still have a healthy respect for Jesus, especially since he grew up attending church and a Christian school (I think.)
QuoteQuoteMaybe it is to you, but that song is about a friend of his that commited suicide.
a friend of jesus' committed suicide? hhmmmm, never heard that one.
are you sure about that?
Ah but he did. Jesus
did have a friend who committed suicide! Read Matthew 27:1-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2027:1-10), where Judas went and hanged himself after betraying Jesus. [size=9](Yes Judas was the ultimate betrayer in the end, but at one point he had been Jesus' friend & disciple.)[/size]
Now whether or not Jim James wrote about Judas and Jesus in that one song, is anybody's guess. :-?
QuoteQuoteI think it'd be interesting to see how many people here would be disappointed (if not utterly repulsed) if Jim were to write a song that was blatantly Christian.
well, I wouldn't be disappointed or repulsed, how about you?
I totally agree! Neither would I. 8-)
Quote"They Ran" is a religious song.
i just can't believe the fucking wise men ran away with his lighter...
shit. how is the baby jesus going to light all the inscence they gave him????
QuoteWhat if Jim were to perform a song that was blatenly christian, like say, I don't know, maybe Silent Night or maybe even Oh Holy Night? Would that piss anyone off?
And then, what if he were to stop right in the middle and take his shoes off? Would that make it better? Or worse?
Shoes off would be better for me since Jesus was a barefoot Hippie anyhow. :)
QuoteQuote"They Ran" is a religious song.
i just can't believe the fucking wise men ran away with his lighter...
shit. how is the baby jesus going to light all the inscence they gave him????
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
funniest post ever
alls i'm sayin is, if i heard mmj coming out of a church, i would go inside that church
Quotealls i'm sayin is, if i heard mmj coming out of a church, i would go inside that church
what if this happened on potluck sunday????? [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Quotewhat if this happened on potluck sunday?????
I'd be all up in that Fellowship Hall and I'd bring some frog eye salad!
have you heard the At Dawn Demo's - the song Lead Me Father. Enough said.
Jim James is for sure spirtual.
remember there is a big difference between spirtuality and religion.
Quotehave you heard the At Dawn Demo's - the song Lead Me Father. Enough said.
Lead Me Father was written by Johnny Cash.
I was not aware of that though...thanks for informing me. no next time i talk about it i wont sound like such a FOOL.
and jonny cash was a religious man no? Jim has also covered a lot of religious songs. in some live preformance i heard he was talking about how he likes prefoming songs about religion. Reg's coffee house maybe?
Maybe we'll just have to wait for the new album to come out to see what the lyrics infer.
This argument would have been over if MMJ got a Church choir to preform with em instead of a youth symphony.
Johnny Cash was a devout Christian, Pentecostal, I believe. He wrote several fantastic gospels.
You are correct about Jim mentioning his fondness for spiritual and religious songs at the Reg's show. He sang "That's Heaven To Me" after saying he appreciated songs about artists' faith.
Quote
I was not aware of that though...thanks for informing me. no next time i talk about it i wont sound like such a FOOL.
and jonny cash was a religious man no? Jim has also covered a lot of religious songs. in some live preformance i heard he was talking about how he likes prefoming songs about religion. Reg's coffee house maybe?
Maybe we'll just have to wait for the new album to come out to see what the lyrics infer.
This argument would have been over if MMJ got a Church choir to preform with em instead of a youth symphony.
Dude, the answer to this "argument" is in the video you refer to. He says what religion means to him and what he believes in. just. listen. And take his word for it. He probably knows what he believes, more so than the rest of us anyway.
I know many believe he doesn't know what his lyrics are about but he's speaking to the audience about his religious beliefs. It doesn't take a genius to decipher it, he uses language that even most christians should be able to understand. For the love of God, people!
Here's the video I refer to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__nkSdtxd0
The lyrics are written "to anyone who wonders, what old jebus meant to me" but it always sounds like jesus on the recording.
Regardless i am not religious but i can tell you right now i am not going to take any perception altering substances at any of their shows in the near future. This thread has put some interesting thoughts into my head that I would have never picked up on. Unfortunately I did not really want to pick up on them.
I love this band more than any band I have come across. They really do put on the best god damn rock show in america. it is true american music, you cannot find this kind of shit anywhere else.
i'd say forget any of the religious connections and leave this music for everyone to interpret for themselves. it is too good to over-analyze.
QuoteQuote
I was not aware of that though...thanks for informing me. no next time i talk about it i wont sound like such a FOOL.
and jonny cash was a religious man no? Jim has also covered a lot of religious songs. in some live preformance i heard he was talking about how he likes prefoming songs about religion. Reg's coffee house maybe?
Maybe we'll just have to wait for the new album to come out to see what the lyrics infer.
This argument would have been over if MMJ got a Church choir to preform with em instead of a youth symphony.
Dude, the answer to this "argument" is in the video you refer to. He says what religion means to him and what he believes in. just. listen. And take his word for it. He probably knows what he believes, more so than the rest of us anyway.
I know many believe he doesn't know what his lyrics are about but he's speaking to the audience about his religious beliefs. It doesn't take a genius to decipher it, he uses language that even most christians should be able to understand. For the love of God, people!
Here's the video I refer to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__nkSdtxd0
Thanks for that. That is good stuff.
QuoteQuoteJesus Christ, people.....
"What a Wonderful Man" is NOT about Jesus.
Fuck.
Um...yeah it is.
Damn and all this time I thought he was talking about Dick Cheney...... :- :P
QuoteThe lyrics are written "to anyone who wonders, what old jebus meant to me" but it always sounds like jesus on the recording.
And two lines later he sings "Your skin looks good in the moonlight / and goddamn those shakey knees". So if it is about jesus then it's about Jim's physical attraction to Jesus which he chooses to express through blasphemy, which would be kinda sick especially if you actually believe in Jesus.
And if he wanted the song to be about Jesus wouldn't he just say jesus? It may sound like Jesus but it is jeBus. The best known use of this word is from the Simpsons when Homer says "I don't even believe in jebus". So it's more likely that Steam Engine is about Homer Simpson than Jesus Christ.
I don't know why I continue to try to debate people on this. People will believe what they want to believe just because they want to believe. And they will believe it regardless of evidence that proofs them wrong, that is, afterall, the essence of Christianity.
QuoteAnd they will believe it regardless of evidence that proofs them wrong, that is, afterall, the essence of Christianity
Well, it is a matter of what the individual believes. The true "essence" of Christianity isn't right or wrong but a matter of personal belief-which is bedrocked in a little thing called faith. Faith is believing in something regardless of evidence or proof or anything that might be contradictory to it.
I'm going to leave the lyric interpretation alone. However, anyone who thinks Jim doesn't have a belief in God/Jesus at some level has their head buried in the sand. If he absolutely didn't believe, why would he be singing "Silent Night", "O Holy Night", "Lead Me Father", etc? I don't blame him if he doesn't want to come right out and say it. It's obvious from this thread that there are many fans that he would lose or have disappointed if he did so. :(
god said he didn't like this thread
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/alles_moegliche/mixed-smiley-006.gif)
Quotegod said he didn't like this thread
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/alles_moegliche/mixed-smiley-006.gif)
Hey, if there's a God I'm sure He'd love to know were talking about him. ;D
Quotegod said he didn't like this thread
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/alles_moegliche/mixed-smiley-006.gif)
I also don't approve of what you do in the shower with your pulsating shower head.
I SEE EVERYTHING.
This thread is semi-complete shit/semi-hilarious ;D
QuoteQuotegod said he didn't like this thread
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/alles_moegliche/mixed-smiley-006.gif)
I also don't approve of what you do in the shower with your pulsating shower head.
I SEE EVERYTHING.
look. god, you created me...
and my right hand. so deal.
besides, tammy fay baker said you'd forget/forgive if i sent 500 bucks to the TBN. you gonna hold up to the end of the deal?
(http://radaronline.com/features/images/2006/12/jim-bakker-tammy-fay-505811.jpg)
I bet Tammy would love My Morning Jacket.
this is one truly sad and creepy thread :( :( :( :(....
It was fine until Brad went and posted this.......
(http://radaronline.com/features/images/2006/12/jim-bakker-tammy-fay-505811.jpg)
(http://www.mbrauer.com/images/jimjames.jpg)
Forgive me?
QuoteI'm going to leave the lyric interpretation alone. However, anyone who thinks Jim doesn't have a belief in God/Jesus at some level has their head buried in the sand. If he absolutely didn't believe, why would he be singing "Silent Night", "O Holy Night", "Lead Me Father", etc? I don't blame him if he doesn't want to come right out and say it. It's obvious from this thread that there are many fans that he would lose or have disappointed if he did so. :(
I'm sorry, folks. I just can't not respond to this, although I'm sure it will be to no avail. He obviously does have a belief a "God" or a force that Jim himself refers to in the video clip that you either refused to watch or are incapable of understanding and it doesn't turn me off. "O Holy Night" and "Lead Me Father" are two of my favorite songs to sing and I'm not a Christian, so that's why he might sing them. Or it could be what he says in that video, but i've sufficiently beat that dead horse.
And if you were referring to me, it wouldn't matter to me if Jim was saved and turned to all christian music like Bob Dylan, my hero, did. I am a fan of Johnny Cash although I'm not a Christian and a fan of Cat Stevens even although I'm not a fundamentalist Islam and I'm a fan of Beck even though I'm not a scientologist. Go figure!
I'm sorry to be so harsh to Christians, I have a lot of respect and love for many Christians, but this is a lot like talking to a brick wall (I was going to say a kindergartner but that's giving some of you too much credit).
that's a bit harsh.
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/alles_moegliche/mixed-smiley-006.gif)
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/alles_moegliche/mixed-smiley-006.gif)
QuoteQuoteI'm going to leave the lyric interpretation alone. However, anyone who thinks Jim doesn't have a belief in God/Jesus at some level has their head buried in the sand. If he absolutely didn't believe, why would he be singing "Silent Night", "O Holy Night", "Lead Me Father", etc? I don't blame him if he doesn't want to come right out and say it. It's obvious from this thread that there are many fans that he would lose or have disappointed if he did so. :(
And if you were referring to me, it wouldn't matter to me if Jim was saved and turned to all christian music like Bob Dylan, my hero, did. I am a fan of Johnny Cash although I'm not a Christian and a fan of Cat Stevens even although I'm not a fundamentalist Islam and I'm a fan of Beck even though I'm not a scientologist. Go figure!
I'm sorry to be so harsh to Christians, I have a lot of respect and love for many Christians, but this is a lot like talking to a brick wall (I was going to say a kindergartner but that's giving some of you too much credit).
I love it when people say they have respect and love for a person or a group of people, and then turn right around and rip them in the same sentence. It reminds me of when someone says, "No offense, but you really aren't very smart", like the "no offense" part makes it all good. You spent the previous paragraph proving to all of us how open minded you are with your musical tastes and then finished it off with your closed minded statement. Fine, Christians rub you the wrong way, we get it. Even my simple kindergarten mind can figure that out.
Wow, I've never seen that picture of Jim in the studio. That Bat Cave shirt must be his "studio shirt". *in Roger Daultry voice* YOU ARE FORGIVEN, YOU ARE ALL FORGIVEN!!!!
I think we can all agree that spirituality plays a significant role in My Morning Jacket's music. I think Jim leaves that spirituality open for each individual to interpret for themselves and I think he does it on purpose. He has gone out of his way on several occasions to make the point that he believes in excluding no one. He has also made the point that the structured part of spirituality that we call "Religion" get's a bit messy. I could see Jim singing a Christian song and turning around and playing a Jewish song right after that and it making complete sense. I think the spirituality in the song is the same in any language (if you will ;)) so if Jim sings a song about God and then sings one about Buddha that's awesome because they are both on this forum and obviously both fans of My Morning Jacket.
QuoteI think we can all agree that spirituality plays a significant role in My Morning Jacket's music. I think Jim leaves that spirituality open for each individual to interpret for themselves and I think he does it on purpose. He has gone out of his way on several occasions to make the point that he believes in excluding no one. He has also made the point that the structured part of spirituality that we call "Religion" get's a bit messy. I could see Jim singing a Christian song and turning around and playing a Jewish song right after that and it making complete sense. I think the spirituality in the song is the same in any language (if you will ;)) so if Jim sings a song about God and then sings one about Buddha that's awesome because they are both on this forum and obviously both fans of My Morning Jacket.
I agree with all of this. Good post.
QuoteI'm sorry to be so harsh to Christians, I have a lot of respect and love for many Christians, but this is a lot like talking to a brick wall (I was going to say a kindergartner but that's giving some of you too much credit).
Hmmmm. Perhaps you should look in the mirror, then. If personal insults are all you have to add to this debate, then maybe you're the kindergartner. Religion is a thorny issue, and declaring anyone who's got a different view on it as a "brick wall" or "kindergartner" is just as dismissive as saying "you're a fucking stupid asshole".
Wow, I just watched the "That's Heaven To Me" clip for the first time and I think I did do a pretty good job of explainng where Jim may be coming from with my last post. The whole time "that's heaven to me" was playing I was Imagining John and Dylan slow dancing together. That Was WIERD!
Anyway, thanks for posting that link Dylan. I think you're right when you say that clip should answer most of the questions that have been raised in this thread.
The only other thing I will add is that it is impossible to address this issue with concrete statements. Many people struggle with the complex issue of religion and don't know what to believe at times. It's possible that Jim believes in something, but isn't quite sure what that is. Also, even people who do believe in a specific God have their faith waver back and forth depending on their current situation, tragedies, miracles, etc. Someone could have a much different outlook writing lyrics for album #1 than they do by the time they write album #3. Bob Dylan would be an obvious example of this. It's so difficult to put into words, I'll quit now. :-X
honestly, when it comes down to it, what does it matter whether Jim writes him songs about the baby jesus? the whole concept of music is to give you something to relate to. the lyrics mean what you want them to. interpret them into whatever you can identify them with in your personal life. of course we all what to know how Jim comes up with these amazing songs, but just like his religious views, i think thats rather private. being a songwriter is difficult because its your personal thoughts being brought out for the world to see. its a very intimate act within. so whats it matter is Jim is a bible thumper or not? whatever his motivation for songwriting is, i hope he keeps it up for a long time.
what if his motivation is kiddie porn?
obviously its NOT that. but if is, then.....im drawing a blank. :-/
what if his motivation is...
(http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/recipes/images/broccolicheese300.jpg)
My point being....Have you ever REALLY Listened to Into The Woods?
you know who the easy mornin rebel really is?
(http://www.preisvergleich.org/pimages/RichieLionel-Lionel-Richie_280__80010044003830127_20.jpg)
broccoli, yum.
and yes, into the woods is one of my favorites. in all its creepy strange-ness.
yum to lionel too.
(http://birdhouse.org/blog/images/silly_hans.jpg)
Seriously though, It seems like it's pretty legitimate to want to ask these questions about a songwritter, I for one would like to know a little bit about the person and their ideas if they are creating any kind of art that I enjoy or touches me in some way. I think it is relevent, some people may not and I can understand that school of thought as well.
(http://birdhouse.org/blog/images/silly_hans.jpg)
This picture makes me want to play some !!! and rub KY Jelly all on my nipples.
QuoteQuoteI'm sorry to be so harsh to Christians, I have a lot of respect and love for many Christians, but this is a lot like talking to a brick wall (I was going to say a kindergartner but that's giving some of you too much credit).
Hmmmm. Perhaps you should look in the mirror, then. If personal insults are all you have to add to this debate, then maybe you're the kindergartner. Religion is a thorny issue, and declaring anyone who's got a different view on it as a "brick wall" or "kindergartner" is just as dismissive as saying "you're a fucking stupid asshole".
I believe the point is as follows: a kindergartner would have said, "you're a fucking stupid asshole", whereas an educated and intellectually superior person would say, "this is a lot like talking to a brick wall (I was going to say a kindergartner but that's giving some of you too much credit)".
I think that's the point. My people are still analyzing the data and running some tests; they're a small crew and don't have a lot of experience, but they make up for it with zeal and zest for life and truth...
S T A N D B Y
(http://atlascopy.com/images/test_pattern.gif)
Wait, I'm already doing that, but it does go very nicely with that picture. oooohhhh
QuoteSeriously though, It seems like it's pretty legitimate to want to ask these questions about a songwritter, I for one would like to know a little bit about the person and their ideas if they are creating any kind of art that I enjoy or touches me in some way. I think it is relevent, some people may not and I can understand that school of thought as well.
I know what you mean. I've always been that way, especially with authors. You sort of want to know what inspired these people do write such great things-- it's not about wanting to copy someone ideals, it's about admiring the creative process... it's about seeing how others make sense/art out of life... it's about respecting that ability...
well, that and broccoli.
and cheese.
less talk, more cats and little boys please.
(http://www.catfacts.org/cat-mouth-full.jpg)
(http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070227/070227_britainObese_vmed2p.widec.jpg)
QuoteQuoteSeriously though, It seems like it's pretty legitimate to want to ask these questions about a songwritter, I for one would like to know a little bit about the person and their ideas if they are creating any kind of art that I enjoy or touches me in some way. I think it is relevent, some people may not and I can understand that school of thought as well.
I know what you mean. I've always been that way, especially with authors. You sort of want to know what inspired these people do write such great things-- it's not about wanting to copy someone ideals, it's about admiring the creative process... it's about seeing how others make sense/art out of life... it's about respecting that ability...
well, that and broccoli.
and cheese.
Very well said, I think people run into problems when they find out the ideals of the artist don't match up with their own. They start to feel like they are wrong for getting something out of it. It's always weird when you have a meaning of a song figured out in your head only to find out that the artist actually didn't write it about kittens and little boys getting it on, you start to feel like, well, mabey this song doesn't really speak to me. How can I listen to this song anymore KNOWING that this guy isn't into this stuff, I mean, I thought "Finally someone else understands me".
Quote(http://www.catfacts.org/cat-mouth-full.jpg)
(http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070227/070227_britainObese_vmed2p.widec.jpg)
Together please.
(http://www.ruminator.com/images/JJ05/spoon.jpg)
Speaking of things that get me hot....
(http://mog.com/images/users/569/1157472428.jpeg)
I watched that Will Ferill movie "Stranger Than Fiction" the other night and there are like 8 Spoon songs on that bitch. Very Cool, the movie was good to.
QuoteI believe the point is as follows: a kindergartner would have said, "you're a fucking stupid asshole", whereas an educated and intellectually superior person would say, "this is a lot like talking to a brick wall (I was going to say a kindergartner but that's giving some of you too much credit)"
That's just it-I can't tell the difference here. The intention is certainly there.
Like I said, religion is a thorny issue, affected by a myriad of things personal to the believer, regardless of the faith involved. Kinda like RC Cola and corndogs versus Dr. Pepper and brauts-who's to say what's better, other than "in the eye of the beholder"?
Your own...personal....Jesus....
(http://www.rtvslo.si/kultura/upload/Kultura/glasba/dave_gahan_depeche_mode_show.jpg)
Wow, for a second I thought that was Keith Richards. Wow, Depeche Mode is fucking old.
Will this ever get resolved?
To rererequote: Love a song for the way it makes you feel. Doesn't matter exactly what it's about.
QuoteWill this ever get resolved?
None of the good threads ever do! :)
QuoteWill this ever get resolved?
I already did on page 1:
from Z:
Wordless Chorus is about prayer (duhh!)
It Beats For You is about Jesus' heart (WHO COULD SEE AND NOT BELIEVE?)
Gideon is God
What A Wonderful Man = Jesus
Off the Record is about trying to keep sinful secrets from God (as if!)
Into the Woods is about seeking out the Lord through the absurdities of life
Anytime is about when it's right to accept Jesus
Lay Low is really Lay Lord
Knot Comes Loose means the knot of life (fear, haterd, etc...) is coming undone through God
DonDante is about the 2nd coming.
'nuff said
QuoteQuoteWill this ever get resolved?
I already did on page 1:
from Z:
Wordless Chorus is about prayer (duhh!)
It Beats For You is about Jesus' heart (WHO COULD SEE AND NOT BELIEVE?)
Gideon is God
What A Wonderful Man = Jesus
Off the Record is about trying to keep sinful secrets from God (as if!)
Into the Woods is about seeking out the Lord through the absurdities of life
Anytime is about when it's right to accept Jesus
Lay Low is really Lay Lord
Knot Comes Loose means the knot of life (fear, haterd, etc...) is coming undone through God
DonDante is about the 2nd coming.
'nuff said
All MMJ songs are open to interpretation.
I, however, see Gideon as a sort of protest song against protest songs. The speaker in this song is calling Gideon an "animal" and refusing to accept him, even though he has God with him. It seems like a warning against rash protests, as we might not know what is best for us.
Just my 2 cents.
Gideon is actually about Keith Jarrett
(http://www.shumtoh.org/bbs/data/artists/Keith_Jarrett.jpg)
Actually it's about this guy.......
(http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/tv/us/img/site/50/87/0000035087_20061023122028.jpg?y=626&sig=DscNhtu_1tXh9mbbZ7VUJw--)
QuoteQuoteWill this ever get resolved?
I already did on page 1:
from Z:
Wordless Chorus is about prayer (duhh!)
It Beats For You is about Jesus' heart (WHO COULD SEE AND NOT BELIEVE?)
Gideon is God
What A Wonderful Man = Jesus
Off the Record is about trying to keep sinful secrets from God (as if!)
Into the Woods is about seeking out the Lord through the absurdities of life
Anytime is about when it's right to accept Jesus
Lay Low is really Lay Lord
Knot Comes Loose means the knot of life (fear, haterd, etc...) is coming undone through God
DonDante is about the 2nd coming.
'nuff said
more like 'nuff smoked ;D ;D
'scuse me, I meant Dale Jarrett; Gideon is about Dale Jarrett
(http://i.a.cnn.net/nascar/2005/kyn/01/10/daytona.testing.preview/dale_jarrett_instory.jpg)
You know that part in "Into the Woods" when it's all "the hottest kind of lover I ever seen: E?" You know who E is?
(http://www.crossanchorproductions.com/ahuff/fun/erik_estrada.jpg)
Eric Estrada. I am not kidding.
(http://allvegasreservations.com/images/altshows/englebert.jpg)
no way, it's Englebert Humperdink.
i was telling my friend who loves MMJ about this thread and that "a lot of their songs seem like spirtual songs."
He said "I can see that, but they just sound like love songs to me"
Good Point.
Cant they be both? is that against the law of laws that two things cant be the same at any one time?
I like the love idea better.
me too.
I've always felt like MMJ is the most Romantic band I've ever heard.
Top three driving forces behind MMJ songs....
1. Romance
2. Spirituality
3. Erik Estrada
QuoteI've always felt like MMJ is the most Romantic band I've ever heard.
Top three driving forces behind MMJ songs....
1. Romance
2. Spirituality
3. Erik Estrada
all mmj songs are about a spiritual romance with erik estrada
QuoteQuoteI've always felt like MMJ is the most Romantic band I've ever heard.
Top three driving forces behind MMJ songs....
1. Romance
2. Spirituality
3. Erik Estrada
all mmj songs are about a spiritual romance with erik estrada
I knew it
(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9gnMiL7uS5GSVYAzyejzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBsMW5yM3VoBHNlYwNwcm9mBHZ0aWQDSTA2Nl84OA--/SIG=12ghd1tor/EXP=1177553787/**http%3A//www.peoples.ru/art/cinema/actor/nielsen/nielsen_1.jpg)
QuoteI think we can all agree that spirituality plays a significant role in My Morning Jacket's music. I think Jim leaves that spirituality open for each individual to interpret for themselves and I think he does it on purpose. He has gone out of his way on several occasions to make the point that he believes in excluding no one. He has also made the point that the structured part of spirituality that we call "Religion" get's a bit messy. I could see Jim singing a Christian song and turning around and playing a Jewish song right after that and it making complete sense. I think the spirituality in the song is the same in any language (if you will ;)) so if Jim sings a song about God and then sings one about Buddha that's awesome because they are both on this forum and obviously both fans of My Morning Jacket.
^^Very well put! This thread has pulled forth a slew of emotions and reactions ... first, the urge to vomit along with some sadness, frustration, anger which was later mixed in with some sense of reassurance and some good laughs.
Christians need to stop trying to claim JJ ... he made it blatantly obvious how he feels in the linked video. Just let the love of MMJ be shared. Spread the light!
BTW, here's my vote for Jim's, What a Wonderful Man:
(http://www.imagewoof.com/view_thumb/692962214/hasselhoff.jpg) (http://www.imagewoof.com/view_image/692962214/hasselhoff.jpg)
I'm not sure what video you're referring to, but in Bham Jim gave a little talk about religion prior to singing "That's Heaven to Me." He was very vague and referred to an ambiguous deity saying, among other things, he believes in the Force (?). Anyway, my two cents are that there is obviously plenty of religious imagery in MMJ's lyrics, but to call them Christian or Muslim or Buddhist or to say this song is about Jesus or that song is about Ra or whatever, is shooting from the hip at best. These lyrics aren't explicit enough to draw de facto conclusions, IMHO. That said, to say Jim James or Carl or Patrick or whoever is or is not a Christian, Buddhist, etc, is not only speculative, but dangerous, since only God can judge the heart of a man. Here ends the rant.
"That's Heaven to Me" URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__nkSdtxd0
QuoteI'm not sure what video you're referring to, but in Bham Jim gave a little talk about religion prior to singing "That's Heaven to Me." He was very vague and referred to an ambiguous deity saying, among other things, he believes in the Force (?). Anyway, my two cents are that there is obviously plenty of religious imagery in MMJ's lyrics, but to call them Christian or Muslim or Buddhist or to say this song is about Jesus or that song is about Ra or whatever, is shooting from the hip at best. These lyrics aren't explicit enough to draw de facto conclusions, IMHO. That said, to say Jim James or Carl or Patrick or whoever is or is not a Christian, Buddhist, etc, is not only speculative, but dangerous, since only God can judge the heart of a man. Here ends the rant.
"That's Heaven to Me" URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__nkSdtxd0 ".
I don't know if I'm the "you" you were referring to, but if I am, yes that's the video I have refered to and linked about five times in this thread. But I guess six times is a charm. But the problem is in order for the video to have any impact you have to click on the link, watch the video, and (here's the important part) listen to and comprehend the ideas he is attempting to communicate. That may not sound like a lot to you or I Remmi, but for some that's just asking too much. As Paul Simon says, "People hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest".
If you're wondering what video I'm referring to, it's this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__nkSdtxd0
Wait a second, do you mean to say that this ([size=22]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__nkSdtxd0[/size])
might shed some light on the subject at hand?
It seems to me that this is a more accurate explination.......
http://www.colossiansthreesixteen.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/flogger350x450.jpg
straight from the poor beaten horse's dead mouth
"and ALL then are one in the same"
I said something that wasn't very nice. I deleted.
Sorry I didn't take the time to read every post on every page of the thread. I didn't notice that the vid had already been referred to. Basically, I felt many posts were conjectural and we might do well to actually listen, as aMillionDreams noted, to Jim and what he has said on the subject. There's a video that might be helpful.....oh, wait.....nevermind.
Also, as a means of tooting my own horn, as it were, I shot the video. 8-)
Quotestraight from the poor beaten horse's dead mouth
"and ALL then are one in the same"
Well said.
P.S. Remmi, my comment was not pointed at anyone in particular. I was just getting a kick out of how many times Dylan has had to explain that the linked video pretty much says it all. Nice job by the way. For anyone who's not sure what video I'm refering to.......
you mean this video?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__nkSdtxd0
or this one?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__nkSdtxd0
QuoteQuoteQuoteI decided to put my two cents in with this line from The Way That He Sings..
It's just the way that he sings,
not the words that he says, or the band.
I'm in love with this soul, it's a meaning that I understand.
I tend to lean on the side that music is more important than words. Because people interpret words, they feel music. But thats just a crazy guy from Kentucky.
I didn't know Jesus sang or was in a band, but you learn something new everyday. I suppose it's impossible to be in love with anyone's soul other than Jesus', right? I always thought the way that he sings is about this year's season premiere of southpark, for example:
why's it so strange when they say that the world's moving upwards
could it be anymore clear?
whatever, dude. everybody knows that the way that he sings is about freebasing smarties in bob newhart's chevy van and then kicking infants into swimming pools.
and for the record, jesus was in a band. you think stevie nicks really played that tambourine on rumours? she just posed with that shit. liner notes, peeps. liner notes.
I'm late to the game on this thread, but Meg, this "made me laugh to beat the band," to quote The Stranger in the Big Lebowski.
Come on, why over-think something like this? Enjoy the music for what it means to you and be done with it.
It's really about the passion for the music.....when music hits a certain quality level it becomes almost spiritual....we've all experienced that before and I think Jim always tries to convey that in interviews etc. People will interpret that in different ways I guess.