I love MMJ but I have 2 b honest. AD just doesn't flow like ISM it's follow up. What songs would u take off. What would u put on? Me.. A 3 minute version of, 'Cobra' & cut Strangulation.
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o291/okonokos/Pirate.jpg)
Quotecut strangulation.
CRAZY TALK!!!
Oh COME ON! IT could've been stronger
Lemme say I luv AD as it is but if I COULD take one song of it would be Honest Man and add it to ISM.I just think it messes up the flow of the album.IMO.I still like the song.
STRANGULATION????? WHAT?????
That -1 for you in my book! :'(
never thought i would see at dawn and flawed used in the same sentence :-?
put on some quality headphones, crank the volume. Write back later and tell me you think the album needs to have strangulation removed. Strangulation is perfect right where it is.
We're all entitled to opinions though...
The only thing I would change is how the audience look on the cover. They bother me.
As far as cutting, maybe my wrists if some people had their way with the album.
QuoteI love MMJ but I have 2 b honest. AD just doesn't flow like ISM it's follow up. What songs would u take off. What would u put on? Me.. A 3 minute version of, 'Cobra' & cut Strangulation.
I think it does flow though...you just need patience. It's built in to "At Dawn" - it takes a minute to get going, but then you're good.
I actually think ISM is too "top heavy" all the rockers at the front, and then the sleepers at the end. I think At Dawn is much more balanced, and the tracks segue into each other a little better.
I could be convinced, song for song, ISM is better, but I think At Dawn is optimal as a whole. If you're going to sit down for an hour and listen to the whole thing front to back, At Dawn is the best.
I think At Dawn is beautiful the way it is.
QuoteLemme say I luv AD as it is but if I COULD take one song of it would be Honest Man and add it to ISM.I just think it messes up the flow of the album.IMO.I still like the song.
Fuck that, the album would be toooo mellow without a few rockers.
It's quite fine the way it is.
I must disagree. I feel a 1/4 of AD isn't up to par. I'm just wondering what would make it PERFECT! Cobra at 5 min. would've been a GREAT song on AD
QuoteI must disagree. I feel a 1/4 of AD isn't up to par. I'm just wondering what would make it PERFECT! Cobra at 5 min. would've been a GREAT song on AD
I don't understand why you think Cobra would be a good fit for At Dawn? Unless your talking about the
last five minutes with the Banjo.
And if "a 1/4 of AD isn't up to par", that means you think 3 or 4 songs are not any good. Please let me know which songs you don't like besides Strangulation.
Have you seen Strangulation live on the Acoustic Chorale DVD? I think that might change your mind about the song.
A 3 minute version of Cobra instead of Strangulation? I guess you're saying Cobra is flawed too?
This really isn't about At Dawn being flawed (IMO it isn't) as much as it is wanting to chop songs up for the liking.
The statement: A 3 minute version of, 'Cobra' & cut Strangulation is flawed. Me, personally, I wouldn't have said anything...
when i first read this thread before anyone replied, i knew whoever wrote this was going to hear it. i really thought it took some balls to write that here. even though, i disagree. one, i enjoy strangulation and two, just 5 mins of cobra, isn't cobra.
It Smashes Down, Xmas Curtain, Phone Went West, Strangulation. I really would rehash AT if it were mine. If I ever meet Jim again I will tell him so. I've bought & given away 10 copies of ISM. I support the band. I just really believe these 4 songs tank AT. Flog me now.
QuoteIt Smashes Down, Xmas Curtain, Phone Went West, Strangulation. I really would rehash AT if it were mine. If I ever meet Jim again I will tell him so. I've bought & given away 10 copies of ISM. I support the band. I just really believe these 4 songs tank AT. Flog me now.
If that's your opinion, that's your opinion.
:)
I can see why folks would sour on Smashes...but I love waiting for the ending, and how it changes, Jim taking those vocals way up there...it's fun.
QuoteIt Smashes Down, Xmas Curtain, Phone Went West, Strangulation. I really would rehash AT if it were mine. If I ever meet Jim again I will tell him so.
And there's a good reason "it isn't yours".
I swear, people who feel they have to tell an artist what they
should have done differently make me want to take a hostage. Just listen or not, but to pine for
correcting an artist's expression is monkey paste.
monkey paste? on dear... *shrug*
I probably won't tell Jim. I know our paths will cross again but until then I'll only play the songs I like. 'The Jacket' can kick when they're selective with their song choices. But when, 'Phone out west' gets played I head 4 the bar.
My AD rehash idea:
Society often forgives the criminal it never forgives the dreamer.
PWW is more than just a song on AD. It's one of the songs that when I first discovered MMJ I learned, is more of an anthem to celebrate your love of
The Jacket through. It;s up there on that spiritual level of listen with Steam Engine, IMO. It always appears on the mixes I make when converting non-believers.
As for giving Jim your critique of his art, you would have earned your flogging.
Art is a creative expression of one's inner vision. It is highly personal, yet subjective. As a fan, I appreciate MMJ sharing their talent. I may not always get something right away, and after being turned onto Chocolate and Ice 4 or 5 years ago, I really appreciate the many levels that exists in each song and album. I discover something new that I just adore on a regular basis. This is just my experience. But I totally love exploring the many layers, and finding new appreciation for songs and licks and lyrics and variations.
Oh, and Strangulation totally rocks. And Phone Went West...I love that song too. At Dawn is the result of something inside Jim James that he shares through music. And to me, music is what connects us to the universe. Sound waves affect us on a physical and mental level. I guess that explains all of our passion for music (again IMO).
Cmon now XMas Curtain has whale like sounds in it, how can you not love it?
strangulation is a masterpiece in itself... >:(
The last few lines gives me chills everytime. I'm sorry you don't appreciate it. That song might be in my top 3.
I used to not be a huge fan of Xmas Curtain, but that has changed recently. Now it's one of my favorites, especially live. I think the change actually started after seeing it Siouxtribe style!
But the other three songs are just the pinnacle of At Dawn perfection. It's as if an angel descended from above and left the music behind in sparkledust that landed on Jim's head and hands. Those three songs might just be the greatest pieces of music that have ever been recorded in the history of mankind. (With the except of that one Tenacious D song). IMO.
Quote
But the other three songs are just the pinnacle of At Dawn perfection. It's as if an angel descended from above and left the music behind in sparkledust that landed on Jim's head and hands. Those three songs might just be the greatest pieces of music that have ever been recorded in the history of mankind. (With the except of that one Tenacious D song). IMO.
That is poetry theres. It's as if those same angels sprinkled the same sparkledust on you while writing that.
Anybody who thinks Phone Went West or Strangulation should not be on At Dawn have seriously not really listened to this album properly. I admit, at first I wasn't thrilled with a lot of the songs at the end of the album, but if you listen to the whole album and really focus, the end of the album is arguably even more effective than the beginning. If you really need help, take some mushrooms and give it a chance; These two songs are possibly the best.
Quote If you really need help, take some mushrooms and give it a chance;
but you say that about everything...
I actually think all four of their studio albums are flawed masterpieces.
I sure hope the next album is as "flawed" as all the others! ;)
QuoteLemme say I luv AD as it is but if I COULD take one song of it would be Honest Man and add it to ISM.I just think it messes up the flow of the album.IMO.I still like the song.
Amen brother. Honest Man is the one and only reason that At Dawn finishes in second place just behind Tennessee Fire as the best MMJ album.
and as for you sir.......CUT STRANGULATION?@!?!!?! That's BLASPHEMY!
I agree that it is not as tight as, say Z or It Still Moves. But that's really what makes it so great. Whenever I try to cut off some songs, it ends up sounding incomplete. Without Phone Went West, it loses some of it's flavor. Without Strangulation, it almost sounds too mellow. And Xmas Curtain sounds born to follow Honest Man. The only two songs that could have been cut were Just Because I Do and I Needed It Most, and those two songs are too good to be left off. Besides, At Dawn could never work as an album like Z. It needs to sound open and sprawling like it does. Kinda like Daydream Nation did. And Cobra would sound completely out of place on the album (and don't you even think about editing it!) At Dawn is untouchable!
Unless, of course, you wanted to add Chills. ;)
fortbethel, maybe this'll change your mind about strangulation:
http://www.archive.org/details/mmj2000-01-26.clublek
:)
QuoteQuoteLemme say I luv AD as it is but if I COULD take one song of it would be Honest Man and add it to ISM.I just think it messes up the flow of the album.IMO.I still like the song.
Amen brother. Honest Man is the one and only reason that At Dawn finishes in second place just behind Tennessee Fire as the best MMJ album.
and as for you sir.......CUT STRANGULATION?@!?!!?! That's BLASPHEMY!
i would rate TTF as my least favorite, but thats just my opinion i guess.
QuoteQuoteQuoteLemme say I luv AD as it is but if I COULD take one song of it would be Honest Man and add it to ISM.I just think it messes up the flow of the album.IMO.I still like the song.
Amen brother. Honest Man is the one and only reason that At Dawn finishes in second place just behind Tennessee Fire as the best MMJ album.
and as for you sir.......CUT STRANGULATION?@!?!!?! That's BLASPHEMY!
i would rate TTF as my least favorite, but thats just my opinion i guess.
I love honest man but I agree with jellyfish that it really doesn't fit on AD. I wish they would have saved it and properly rocked it out on ISM like they did with One Big Holiday.
I also think that ISM was too massive. If it were me I would have saved honest man for ISM bumped about 4 of the songs and saved them for another album. But Jim's obviously got the masterplan and he doesn't seem to need any help.
As for TTF being someone least favorite, wtf? are you kidding? i didn't think it was possible.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteLemme say I luv AD as it is but if I COULD take one song of it would be Honest Man and add it to ISM.I just think it messes up the flow of the album.IMO.I still like the song.
Amen brother. Honest Man is the one and only reason that At Dawn finishes in second place just behind Tennessee Fire as the best MMJ album.
and as for you sir.......CUT STRANGULATION?@!?!!?! That's BLASPHEMY!
i would rate TTF as my least favorite, but thats just my opinion i guess.
I love honest man but I agree with jellyfish that it really doesn't fit on AD. I wish they would have saved it and properly rocked it out on ISM like they did with One Big Holiday.
I also think that ISM was too massive. If it were me I would have saved honest man for ISM bumped about 4 of the songs and saved them for another album. But Jim's obviously got the masterplan and he doesn't seem to need any help.
As for TTF being someone least favorite, wtf? are you kidding? i didn't think it was possible.
In the words of my English teacher, nothing can be "more perfect" than something else. And all the Jacket albums seem to be pretty darn perfect...
Therefore Z=ISM=AD=TTF.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteLemme say I luv AD as it is but if I COULD take one song of it would be Honest Man and add it to ISM.I just think it messes up the flow of the album.IMO.I still like the song.
Amen brother. Honest Man is the one and only reason that At Dawn finishes in second place just behind Tennessee Fire as the best MMJ album.
and as for you sir.......CUT STRANGULATION?@!?!!?! That's BLASPHEMY!
i would rate TTF as my least favorite, but thats just my opinion i guess.
I love honest man but I agree with jellyfish that it really doesn't fit on AD. I wish they would have saved it and properly rocked it out on ISM like they did with One Big Holiday.
I also think that ISM was too massive. If it were me I would have saved honest man for ISM bumped about 4 of the songs and saved them for another album. But Jim's obviously got the masterplan and he doesn't seem to need any help.
As for TTF being someone least favorite, wtf? are you kidding? i didn't think it was possible.
I love all 4 full length albums and don't consider them to be "flawed", but if i had to choose the order would go:
1. Z
2. At Dawn
3. It Still Moves
4. The Tennessee Fire
That doesn't mean that i don't like TTF
(http://www.qbgraphics.com/kylie/mona_lisa.jpg)
:-?
I agree 100%....STRANGULATION SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the song Jim should have put there instead....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_PFmVihUok
Hey meg, I'm just gonna find a cash machine ; )
uhh yeah. So I have not listened to Jacket for at least a month. Wanted to take a break so when I listen again it's fresh and i can enjoy it like it's a new girlfriend. So I listened to At Dawn when running today. Listen to Strangulation with some really good earphones. Is it me or during the first verse there is a old school ticking clock in the background??
I am really not too sure what any of you are talking about.... FLAWS? I do not see any. FLAWS? Really? Why does anyone look at an album and say this song should not be here and they should have used this one instead..... what are you talking about.
Please... I do not understand. How could any Jacket fan say that Stangulation or Phone Went West sucks? I have always felt that those are two of the bands better songs. Stangulation sucks? REALLY? I do not get it. It is my opinion that this album is the best thing MMJ has put out there so far.
For you people that are saying these songs suck... have you seen them live?
At Dawn. My FAVORITE album! Sorry dude!
Yeah, it is so flawed that it nearly brought a 49 year old man to tears in the shower this morning when he listened to "Hopefully" and heard the lyric about what I can't stand is the thought of going a single day without your head in my hands. What a love song!
Well, consider this...if Cindy Crawford's mole [see below] is considered a "flaw" and it makes her all the more goregous to her fans..then maybe a record [At Dawn] with what some people consider "flaws" makes it all the more gorgeous to others [us]? Am I even making sense? It seemed logical a minute ago! :D
(http://cosmeticsurgery.com/images/article_imgs/221/Moles%20Cindy%20Crawford.jpg)
AT DAWN! AT DAWN! AT DAWN! 8-)
I would have to take off "honest man," if any songs. It's kind of long and even though it isn't a bad track, I think it could have been better. And because it happens to be on an album with so many beautiful, amazing songs, it seems to be weak in comparison. The other track that is kind of week is "phone went west." I would replace those two songs with one song, "chills." The album is already so dark with tracks like, "strangulation" that it needs a lighter track like "chills" to balance it out. With that being said, maybe those two tracks will grow on me enough until one day I realize that they are essential to the album. But, I see that as a long shot right now.
I'm pretty much sick of this thread.
Blasphemy :(, Honest Man is simply badass
Flawed or not, someone just paid $121.50 to purchase the At Dawn LP on ebay. I had watched the auction for days, but with recent unexpected car bills I couldn't justify it. Some day, I will complete my vinyl MMJ collection but its not to be just yet.
QuoteFlawed or not, someone just paid $121.50 to purchase the At Dawn LP on ebay. I had watched the auction for days, but with recent unexpected car bills I couldn't justify it. Some day, I will complete my vinyl MMJ collection but its not to be just yet.
ditto
i think At Dawn is perfect and is a great precursor to It Still Moves. I wish they would have put both of those albums out as one big double disc.