My Morning Jacket

First off, I am writing this because I keep reading how folks think Jim wrote the lyric "god damn these shaky knee's" at the end and I just disagree, it does not fit. :-[
My position:
The whole song, to me is about stripping away all the surface crap, seeing all that God, or a Being, call him TUTU, has provided, how beautiful it is, how it is taken for granted.  The last sentence sounds to me like "got down on shaky knees", as in bowing before  God, or TUTU, or whatever and acknowledging that his(the singers) life and this world was created by our TUTU, God or whatever and he will never be alone, spiritually.  ;)
OR, some dude proposed on god damned shaky knees in Lake Patoka :                         There really is one:  :-?[url]www.weddingsolutions.com/patoka-beach-wedding-dresses.shtml

I don't know about the lyric change...I think it was "God damn those shaky knees" in the ISM lyrics booklet.

But the lyrics of this song have so many levels to them, it would make sense with those ones also.  :) It's so poetic, and the music is just magical. AKA a perfect song.

http://www.mymorningjacket.com/itstillmoves.html
"the brain melts in the twilight
with the boar and moving trees
your skin looks good in moonlight
and god damn those shaky knees
the fact that my heart's beating
is all the proof you need"

you're right, this thread IS insane.

A lot of people think that song lyric interpretation is pretty wide open, but I don't know who would support changing the words to support what meaning you think the song should have.  The line is "goddam those shaky knees".  so if it's about god, it's a REALLY creepy song.

I sometimes wonder what it must be like to live in a country full of religious fanatics  ;)

QuoteI sometimes wonder what it must be like to live in a country full of religious fanatics  ;)

ha ha   ;D

QuoteI sometimes wonder what it must be like to live in a country full of religious fanatics  ;)

we left England just to come over here and persecute witches :D

If I may add my two cents...I think SE is about finding love, or something intagible like it.  I may even guess that it's about someone he loves or loved but hasn't felt it reciprocated, but has to deal with their wandering ways (take your $$ and your drugs...and the need to move around this green earth).  The first line is kind of a clue (read: huge clue)...and the part about sleeping is not because it's night or a warm bed, but because you are/have been loved by someone very deeply.  That makes you sleep at night...
I think anyone who's ever been crazy in love might agree.  As for the latter part of the song...I dunno.  Sometimes Jim writes quite metaphorically and for himself, so the rest of us are subject to his vision, whatever that might be for the song.
yeah, and the whole God thing...gimme a break.  This song refers to romance...and unless you're screwie, that'd be quite creepy ("your skin looks good in moonlight"), as someone else mentioned.
Now y'all are two cents richer...
8-)

QuoteIf I may add my two cents...I think SE is about finding love, or something intagible like it.  I may even guess that it's about someone he loves or loved but hasn't felt it reciprocated, but has to deal with their wandering ways (take your $$ and your drugs...and the need to move around this green earth).  The first line is kind of a clue (read: huge clue)...and the part about sleeping is not because it's night or a warm bed, but because you are/have been loved by someone very deeply.  That makes you sleep at night...
I think anyone who's ever been crazy in love might agree.  As for the latter part of the song...I dunno.  Sometimes Jim writes quite metaphorically and for himself, so the rest of us are subject to his vision, whatever that might be for the song.
yeah, and the whole God thing...gimme a break.  This song refers to romance...and unless you're screwie, that'd be quite creepy ("your skin looks good in moonlight"), as someone else mentioned.
Now y'all are two cents richer...
8-)

well put

I'm atheist, but I don't require my favorite musicians to be.  I worship at the altar of Bonnie Prince Billy, but he's got some seriously religious lyrics; don't know if they're tongue in cheek or not; don't care.  But MMJ have never appeared to me to be anything like a spiritual band.  Even though, the lyrics to Gideon do have some quasi-religious undertones.  "Religion should appeal to the hearts of the young."

I always equated "goddamn those shaky knees" as a nod to our physicality in the middle of a very "non-physical moment" (ie, spirituality, feelings, love, etc...). I love how it paints the scene that no matter what we think we have control over, feelings interject themselves in physical aspects, some of which we have no control over.

my take

Ok, this is one of my favorite songs by MMJ and one reason is because I look at at it as being a simple love song.  This is my interpretation and may be way off, but no one could change it :)

When he says none of this is physical it is the type of love that has straight from the heart, and has nothing to do with looks or anything physical...the type you need to have in order to live

then the picture he paints at the end, is seeing his love, which gives him shaky knees.

Anyway, I could spend all day talking about this song and the beauty of it, but that is my simple interpretation.  Even if it is corny.

QuoteI always equated "goddamn those shaky knees" as a nod to our physicality in the middle of a very "non-physical moment" (ie, spirituality, feelings, love, etc...). I love how it paints the scene that no matter what we think we have control over, feelings interject themselves in physical aspects, some of which we have no control over.

my take

money analysis...you're so money and you don't even know it.

i agree...i have always equated that line (goddam those shakey knees) with some emotion or feeling that is so overwhelming that it could physically bring you to your knees and totally humbled.

and then when you throw in the line "the fact that my heart is beatin'/is all the proof you needed"...makes me think of unconditional love in that as long as i'm alive and my heart is beating then that is all the proof you need that i love you/care for you/etc, etc.

such an amazing song...

I am glad my post inspired such replies. I want to be clear that I am not about religion AT ALL-too many hypocritical actors and money hungry child rapists. To me, as an individual, I feel in awe of what surrounds me when I hear this song, my children, my wife, and what we see in nature. You don't need money and drugs to get high, its already there...that better?   8-)

How not to get people mad at you for making a repeat thread? Make it about Steam Engine.  :D

QuoteI am glad my post inspired such replies. I want to be clear that I am not about religion AT ALL-too many hypocritical actors and money hungry child rapists. To me, as an individual, I feel in awe of what surrounds me when I hear this song, my children, my wife, and what we see in nature. You don't need money and drugs to get high, its already there...that better?   8-)

I think you just nailed it for me too.  That is what I was trying to say in my other post.  The love around you is all you really need.  It makes me think of my kids and wife when I hear it too, that deep great love.  Just an amazing song.  

Although most of Jim's lyrics change in meaning for me through the months and years, this is one line that I thought was pretty straight forward.  I think he's just pointing out the beauty of the moonlight on a woman's skin and his or her shakey knees from either being nervous or from the outside cold.  Maybe I'm dead wrong, but that is a line that I thought was to be taken only one way.  

I've been a fan now for 3+ years, though I can't quite remember what my life was like before My Morning Jacket, and I still find new or different possible meanings for most of their songs, and as far as the religion aspect, I really don't agree with most of the statements about how obvious the religious messages are in the songs.  I'm sure others have pointed this out, but I don't know how "What a Wonderful Man" is referencing Jesus Christ.  Maybe it is, but when Jim says "I was wanting some ice cream," I take the term "ice cream" to mean LSD, because ice cream is a type of really good LSD, and I don't know how Jesus would know Jim wanted some, but maybe Jesus does, and maybe ice cream doesn't mean acid in the song.  As far as every song that might be referencing religion, you can find a meaning that could go either way.  

Rollin' Back is one that I've really been trying to figure out.  I think of it as a song about not really being sure if Jesus was for real ("I'll never say I knew you") but ultimately hoping that there is a god and you will meet someone as loving as Jesus ("But my heart can't wait to meet you on the other side").

For all I know, we are all wrong, but that's what I came up with.

Boy, my ears have been burning again!  You know, all of this speculation about whether these songs are about me or not is very flattering!  I haven't ever met Jim James, but I hope to when I make it down there. He seems like quite the guy, and what a beard! Sometimes I forget that commandment and just let myself go ahead and envy it!  Anyway, I know that it sure is fun to doggedly and tirelessly dissect every aspect of modern culture and all, but why don't you all just enjoy the songs for what they are and keep them open to your own interpretations? If you want the song to have religious over or undertones, let it be! if you prefer a more agnostic or even atheistic stance, that's cool too!

Hey- bet you never thought I would like exclamation points so much. There is a lot that you don't know about me or anything else for that matter, so keep on speculating! Hopefully you will find the answers that people in modern times so DESPERATELY need. I can see how hard it is for you to enjoy anything without knowing it inside, outside, upside down and backwards. What a shame. I am a big mystery fan myself.

Thanks for talking about me, though!  

QuoteBoy, my ears have been burning again!  You know, all of this speculation about whether these songs are about me or not is very flattering!  I haven't ever met Jim James, but I hope to when I make it down there. He seems like quite the guy, and what a beard! Sometimes I forget that commandment and just let myself go ahead and envy it!  Anyway, I know that it sure is fun to doggedly and tirelessly dissect every aspect of modern culture and all, but why don't you all just enjoy the songs for what they are and keep them open to your own interpretations? If you want the song to have religious over or undertones, let it be! if you prefer a more agnostic or even atheistic stance, that's cool too!

Hey- bet you never thought I would like exclamation points so much. There is a lot that you don't know about me or anything else for that matter, so keep on speculating! Hopefully you will find the answers that people in modern times so DESPERATELY need. I can see how hard it is for you to enjoy anything without knowing it inside, outside, upside down and backwards. What a shame. I am a big mystery fan myself.

Thanks for talking about me, though!  

Why do bad things happen to good people?

Wuddup JC.  It's been awhile.  I was wondering the other day, do you think if you came back around, and brought people back from the dead and walked on water and stuff like that, would people still be just as impressed?  Or would they just think it was all a trick, like David Copperfield or something?  Wouldnt' that suck?  I for one would love it if you swung by my house, I'll fill up the bathtub and you can knock me out some Cabernet, or maybe a nice Pinot Noir.  Not sure if you can be that specific or if it just comes out red table wine everytime, but I'm really not too picky.  Anyway, good to hear from you, I promise you'll see me more often in the future.

Hey guys, great to hear from you! Excellent questions!
Why do bad things happen to good people?
Well, bad things happen to everyone. It is just that the bad things that happen to bad people never seem quite bad enough.

will people believe it is really me when/if I come back?
God, no!
The reality is this. Even if I showed up tomorrow, people would be ready to discount me. They would insist on pulling my hair out to do carbon dating and drug testing. Some people would assume that I was some cult leader and send the FBI after me. I would probably get involved in some sort of stand-off. Chances are good that I will get shot or something. Of course, the joke is on that person, because I am like a villain in a horror movie- you can starve me or nail me to a cross and leave me there,  but you better stand over my body for a few days, because chances are good you haven't finished me off.

ps, BH, I have been spending a lot of time observing the Napa Valley, so I think I can finally get away from the table variety. I refuse to fool with that Shiraz crap, though.

hey, keep them coming!

I always thought JC would be funnier and more clever...

tracy, you blaspheme. what good does clever do anyone. all clever gets you is bitter laughter from your snarky friends. I  will leave that to you.

Yo, Jesus.  Is smoking mary jane a sin ?

Absolutely not. Anything God makes doesn't hurt (think dirt).

QuoteAbsolutely not. Anything God makes doesn't hurt (think dirt).

what about hemlock?

Aw crap. Got me there. Hey, nobody's perfect!!

Hey JC..ever consider a hair cut / beard trim like Jim James?

Jesus,  since you see and hear everything, can you tell me where Osama is ?
Also, I think Jesus needs his own ASK JESUS thread. ;)

I love my look! I will leave personal change to you mortals.

Of course I  know where Obama is. I have been following his movements very closely. He is on the campaign trail.

See, I am so not perfect! I thought you said Obama. So, Osama. As of right now, I am not sure. Last I saw him, he was waiting outside the gates of Britney's house  with that guy with the weird chin mohawk. What a couple of losers!

Quote
Also, I think Jesus needs his own ASK JESUS thread. ;)

I prefer this. Kinda clandestine-like. If word got out that I was available, I would never get any work done!

Run Jesus, It's the forum police!!!!!

QuoteRun Jesus, It's the forum police!!!!!

can they fly? didn't think so. not scared.

Quote

QuoteRun Jesus, It's the forum police!!!!!

can they fly? didn't think so. not scared.

you will be out numbered .UNFORTUNATELY there's more than one :-/

are you trying to help me or just scare me? did you know that people are looking for you, too? apparently, you have been missed. read some threads:
-Favorite MMJ songs and why
-very cool pic

I'm here to help. It would be hard to convince you I'm not here to scare with my past screen name Uncle Creepy. Hope your around long enough and you'll understand a little more about a certain "pecking order" on this here board. But for a cat that can change water into booze you should be fine. Any chance in a bath tub of Miller Lite ? Wow, now I finally can say I know who Jesus is !!!!

Sorry, dude, wine only. I tried a batch of Mad Dog 20/20 once, but a couple of frat guys went blind. Pity.
And I know all about pecking orders.  I have been up against some real foes in my time. Not too worried about this. I would hate to get booted, 'cause I just so happen to think that the Jacket is society's greatest hope since Bob, but if that's what happens, so be it.
Not everyone can hang with the J-man, but the rewards of my friendship are plentiful and great!

Quote

QuoteRun Jesus, It's the forum police!!!!!

can they fly? didn't think so. not scared.

No reason to be scared, I'm far from the forum police.  I don't even correct other peoples spelling. It's all love baby.

And here I thought I had seen everything- apple pie with a hot dog in it?!
if you are the police, LOCK ME UP!

Here's the pecking order:

1) Riny (CC Baxter)
2) everyone else

There's nothing to be afraid of though, Riny's a good guy.  He's more of an organizer than a cop.  :)

I like organizers. I am one myself, you know.

Yo Jesus, I've been trying to get in touch with you for the last 23 years!  I'm not trying to be an over-zealous fan or anything, but I caught that "Sermon at the mount" show you did a few millenniums back and it was SICK!  I got high with these guys named Peter and Paul (said they were friends of yours). Anyway, we had a blast.  Got a little tired of the whole "fish and loaves" thing, but that's a minor gripe.  So when is the next tour scheduled? I know, I know, you gotta usher in the apocalypse and everything, but what a great way to end a career that's given us such classics as "Jesus is just alright," "my sweet lord," and the entire discography of Faith + 1.  

Gotta go. Let's not make a big hairy deal out of this, but you and I both know that we may not see each other again after I die, so just keep on....keep truckin.

can't tell you when the next show will be, because my promoters are the worst. total slackers. anyway, sticky, don't be so sure of where you are going. 'the other side' is fairly relative.

i wish that i could listen to it still moves right now.  it's been a while.

i always think about steam engine as a partner song with one and the same.  i don't hear them separate, and i'm not sure why i think that.  they sit so good together - they're married or something.

when i think about the "meaning" of steam engine, it's more like i'm looking at it from the corner of my eye and it's kind of a washy feely understanding - in that, i get maybe some kind of sense of it, but i can't explain it.  but i always thought the end part was those moments when you're with somebody that you really want to kiss, and it's taking forever, and it's like the end of the night, and you're so nervous but you really want to kiss them - and that's what i always thought the shaky knees was about.  or anyhow, that's where it sits in my peripheral vision.  

the end.  

Quotewhen you're with somebody that you really want to kiss, and it's taking forever, and it's like the end of the night, and you're so nervous but you really want to kiss them - and that's what i always thought the shaky knees was about.  or anyhow, that's where it sits in my peripheral vision.  

i love music

Yeah, my vision of this song is pretty similar. That passage is like a distant cousin of "In the darkened underpass I thought oh god my chance has come at last, but then a strange fear gripped me and I just couldn't ask."  You know that tune. It's a moment filled with possibilities and thus also tension and nervousness.


"the poem is a raid on the inarticulate"  8-)

obviously, chills, you are the belgian and male version of me.
or else i am the canadian and female version of you.
either way, we must be sharing a table somewhere in a coffee shop that lives in a higher dimension. :)

QuoteI'm sure others have pointed this out, but I don't know how "What a Wonderful Man" is referencing Jesus Christ.  Maybe it is, but when Jim says "I was wanting some ice cream," I take the term "ice cream" to mean LSD, because ice cream is a type of really good LSD, and I don't know how Jesus would know Jim wanted some, but maybe Jesus does, and maybe ice cream doesn't mean acid in the song.

Maybe he was just wantin' some ice cream! I know I do! Jesus Christ, what a crazy thread! Oops, sorry, JC. Hey, here's to exclamation points! What's up with the whole son-of-myself thing and sacrificing yourself to appease yourself for future sins committed by people that you created?

Quote
either way, we must be sharing a table somewhere in a coffee shop that lives in a higher dimension. :)

Well there's a nice image  :D

Quote

QuoteI'm sure others have pointed this out, but I don't know how "What a Wonderful Man" is referencing Jesus Christ.  Maybe it is, but when Jim says "I was wanting some ice cream," I take the term "ice cream" to mean LSD, because ice cream is a type of really good LSD, and I don't know how Jesus would know Jim wanted some, but maybe Jesus does, and maybe ice cream doesn't mean acid in the song.

Maybe he was just wantin' some ice cream! I know I do! Jesus Christ, what a crazy thread! Oops, sorry, JC. Hey, here's to exclamation points! What's up with the whole son-of-myself thing and sacrificing yourself to appease yourself for future sins committed by people that you created?

and we come to that moement where the Church ultimately fails in any explanation of what Jesus was ever about--there's a point where you can only make a science out of it so far, and they've beat that into the ground to the point where it defies any sort of logic to anyone who doesn't speak the right slang. Screw that shit.

I'm not much for all of that anymore. I should find my old thread where I decided to take on everyone in the forum on their religious beliefs, thinking I had some sort of an answer at age 17, and you didn't understand good logic if you didn't believe in the full tenets and power and gifts of the church. Once again, screw that shit.

Jesus was about love. If he existed, if he didn't, I don't know that it makes a difference. Does it make one to you? What does Jesus represent? He was this awesome anti-establishment, fuck-religious-authority, love-everybody-no-matter-who kind of guy--he got pissed and flipped tables, and stayed the hell away from churches unless he needed to make a point inside one. He took the entire of thousands of years of biblical law, summed it up into two points and told people that was all they needed and the rest came from there, and thumbed his nose at the high priests of Judaism with that--he served as a huge reminder that "Hey, the good in you is in your heart. If you understand that and go looking for it, you'll find it." I don't know how to explain a lot of what the gospels claim he did, I don't have much info on the inclusion of certain gospels in the Bible, and I really don't know a whole hell of a lot about Bible history in general, but I think I'm getting the point of Jesus. Like I said, does it matter if he lived or not? I'm under the impression that your faith shouldn't be ruled by church doctrine. I tried hard to live that one through high school and the first couple of years of college, and throughout completely failed to miss the simple truths of how we work. I haven't set foot in church since probably Easter now, and I'm actually pretty okay with it. If you rely on doctrine to define your faith, then you've let a whole lot of other people do the thinking for you. If you're okay with that, no sweat, but if you're searching for the deeper truth of it, I think you've got to stand everything up to your gut-appeal to the truth. I can't justify all the garbage wrapped up around Jesus' death and resurrection and the atonement of sins and all of the catchphrases we've got to describe all of it within the church. I'm pretty sure he died--I don't know what I can say about his resurrection. I kind of have the feeling that, as he gave all his lessons through parables, it might make sense that he died in a parable, too. Surely someone's worked hard to disprove that. History works pretty well to show that he did exist. So that's cool. I don't know about the resurrection. What I can say is that if someone came along and proved he didn't rise again, it wouldn't shatter my faith. If Jesus did marry and have a daughter, it wouldn't change how I live my life. Or if they proved he didn't perform a miracle.

It's about the deeper ideas behind all that--Love, basically, I think. And if you spend your life on a quest after love, I think you've got yourself on the right path. God is love, we're reminded of in 1 John 4:something, and while I'm not so sure I'm a huge fan of Paul's letters now, I do know that he's onto something right there--God is love and seeking after love, we seek after God, and seeking God has to be seeking after Love. Jesus is wrapped up in that somewhere--there's all sorts of "inside your heart" talk--I don't know about the physical validity of all that, but there's definitely a shift in mindset when you're on the right path towards realizing Love as best you can.

Dangit, who's still reading this? I don't know if I should say thanks or offer some sort of condolences or even say "what the hell are you taking stock in all this for?" At best, I'm a Christian who found himself shafted by the failure of the institution and is a skeptic now at best. The truth I know I've had to find personally, and I think we all need to--otherwise, what does reading someone else's words mean to you until you validate them? You can read every self-help book in the world, but what does all that mean if you only go "hmm" after each one and never put into practice what you read about? It's in your practice of these things that the depth of the truth comes out--once you actually se it work, or see it proved, you've found a reason to have that practice or whatever hold validity for you.

Test truth to find that it is indeed truth.

I think the Bible uses language that is quite mystical at best for something that is actually very earthy and human and visceral. Grandiose language, all these high names for God and Jesus, all these dang rules, and all the fear of the "danger" of other religions and their insights into the search for the same truth are all great tools to build a pretty big alienating empire on, I think. But I don't need to get into Church politic--that just gets me angry.

Once again, why the hell are you still reading this? Congrats for making it this far--you really probably could've done a lot more good with your time, and I'm sorry if all this offends or alienates anyone on the board or gives someone some good anger or unease to spew back at any and all of this. Please do if you can write it down--I need as many challenges as I can get to help solidify what it is I actually stand for now. Thanks for reading this if you've made it this far--I hope it helped or something to that effect. I hope you enjoyed my repetition in the last paragraph. Remind me not to start typing things like this at 2:30am from now on....

[size=22]I LOVE TOM EISENBRAUN. [/size]  Finally, somebody gets it!

I'm right here with you Tom. Good job.

You sure are an interesting cat Tom  8-)  I always enjoy reading your posts.  Well spoken.

haha, anything you guys'd like to add or challenge?

I'm not doctrine by any means--far from it, in fact. I'd like to hear y'all's takes. Maybe this deserves a thread in off-topic? I really don't want to be the guy to start that one up--I've given myself a justified bad wrap on the subject a few years ago, but it's something quite important to me, which I guess is why I'll get so fired up about it. Especially when people don't listen or claim that one thing is something that it isn't. Anyway, I'd like to hear y'all's takes on the whole Jesus deal.

I will put some effort into this, probably not until the weekend though. Work is pretty hairy right now...gunna be a late next few nights. I like your questioning approach, and share a fairly similar view of Jesus as you, though I don't have the extended Christian background...

Tom, you pretty much summed up my feelings on the matter perfectly.  It's good to hear other people share very similar beliefs.  Love is the answer to all of it.

Quotehaha, anything you guys'd like to add or challenge?

I'm not doctrine by any means--far from it, in fact. I'd like to hear y'all's takes. Maybe this deserves a thread in off-topic? I really don't want to be the guy to start that one up--I've given myself a justified bad wrap on the subject a few years ago, but it's something quite important to me, which I guess is why I'll get so fired up about it. Especially when people don't listen or claim that one thing is something that it isn't. Anyway, I'd like to hear y'all's takes on the whole Jesus deal.

I'm with you for the most part Tom (I think), that Jesus was a real person who walked the talk. His beliefs about treating other people well, and standing up and helping those who need it, and his fight against injustice by both Romans and Jewish folks in that time - those things are great and admirable. That is, those things that are pretty much accepted as fact. What I don't buy is anything that people have attributed to him (or any religious icon for that matter) since his life ended. That means 3 days later too. It all boils down to one thing for me, and that's the Golden Rule, and I don't think we need an invisible man or a monster made of pasta up in the sky threatening us with never-ending baths in molten lava to make us stick to it.

must. avoid. temptation. to start an argument!

:-X

i'm trying to be good, people.  I'm trying REAL hard.

Quotemust. avoid. temptation. to start an argument!

:-X

i'm trying to be good, people.  I'm trying REAL hard.

Let's hear it man! I'd love to have a good discussion about all this with you involved in it. But let's shoot for a little bit more peaceable of a "discussion" rather than an argument.

Quote

Quotemust. avoid. temptation. to start an argument!

:-X

i'm trying to be good, people.  I'm trying REAL hard.

Let's hear it man! I'd love to have a good discussion about all this with you involved in it. But let's shoot for a little bit more peaceable of a "discussion" rather than an argument.

I'd love to have a peaceable discussion with ya, Tom , but religion ain't the place for it. I know better than to discuss religion on a public forum.  Tho let it be known that I think Steam Engine is an amazing song, Jesus is alright with me, but Jebus is much funnier!

peace.

i really enjoyed reading that, t.
it made me think about a lot of things i should be thinking about right now.

p.s.  it was brave of you all those years back to take everyone on, by the way.  i gotta remember to act like a 17 year old more often. ;)

I was with Tom the night he turned into a man; a real man...

indeeeeed Tracy...that night I felt something inside me I'd never felt before...














(One of the most vicious "It Beats" of all time. Shoosh.)

QuoteI was with Tom the night he turned into a man; a real man...

Quoteindeeeeed Tracy...that night I felt something inside me I'd never felt before...

:o That's soooo sweet you guys!  I had no idea.   Congratulations.

Quotehaha, anything you guys'd like to add or challenge?

I'm not doctrine by any means--far from it, in fact. I'd like to hear y'all's takes. Maybe this deserves a thread in off-topic? I really don't want to be the guy to start that one up--I've given myself a justified bad wrap on the subject a few years ago, but it's something quite important to me, which I guess is why I'll get so fired up about it. Especially when people don't listen or claim that one thing is something that it isn't. Anyway, I'd like to hear y'all's takes on the whole Jesus deal.

I have some free time on my hands today, and thought I'd tackle this one...

A little about my religious background...I was raised as a Catholic, became pretty disinterested at a young age, but kept on the path of receiving all of the sacraments (through Confirmation) because of my Mom. After that, I kind of drifted away...High School and College I was anti- a lot of stuff, went pretty far to left field, though I also REALLY liked studying, reading and thinking about religion (Christianity included) in some of the classes that I took. Today, I'm busy as hell, and unfortunately don't give too much thought to religion, though I'd love to devote more time to it. I don't attend mass more than a time or two a year (with Mom).

I believe in God. I truly do. I DO believe that Jesus was an amazing man, who had the most beautiful message. He was a Jew, and basically his teachings were not too different from the accepted Jewish beliefs of his day, with one major exception; he believed that the Lord is ultimately compassionate, and that the Lord's love and forgiveness is for everyone, regardless of social title or standing. So yes, Jesus spoke with and ate with and helped and inspired the dregs of society, and he did it all with the greatest compassion and humility. He encouraged others to live their lives openly and lovingly. I ALSO believe that after he died, his word, his "spirit", inspired his followers to risk their lives (at the hands of the Romans) to speak out and spread his message. Other than that, I really don't know what to believe, but I don't need any more than that.

I haven't spent much time with a Bible in 15 years or so...It always bothered me how people would justify things based on strict, literal interpretations of Bible passages. Definite rulings of the Catholic Church bother me. People taking advantage of followers through religion REALLY bothers me. But, the simple truths of Jesus are what I love, and on a good day, what I strive for.

I wish I could devote more time to reading and thinking about religion. All of the major religions have amazing lessons to offer, and really, they all have pretty similar views of how to live "this" life. I feel they're all different paths to the same God, or at least they were originally intended to be.

I admire people with unshakable faith, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to wholly support any specific religion in its entirety. I question things too much, and am actually glad that I'll never have it all figured out.

I used to believe in Santa Claus, but then I realized it was just something smart people made up to make sure not-so-smart people behave themselves.

QuoteI used to believe in Santa Claus, but then I realized it was just something smart people made up to make sure not-so-smart people behave themselves.

:'(  Santa Claus is NOT real ?