QuoteOK. I've listened Evil Urges. I almost never post on here, but upon repeated listenings I had the urge to post a sarcastic message saying something to the effect of "I just heard this new album by the contemporary Christian rock band My Morning Jacket...". Having kind of said that anyway, I must follow it up by noting that I find it hard to understand where Jim is coming from nowadays if it's not from a Christian perspective, despite what he says in interviews. My wife, who grew up in an overtly Christian environment in Kentucky, says some of the songs like "Look at You" remind her of the ones she used to have to sing in church. If this just Jim James not being able to shake his regional roots or is he really directing his songs towards Jesus? While I recognize that there always has been a spiritual nature to the music, it used to be that it was cryptic enough that, as a secular person, I could still find my own meaning in it. I find that hard to do with the new album as it seems to have crossed the line into Christian Rock with obvious biblical/religious aspects to almost every song. I really want to see MMJ live again, having only had the opportunity to see them once in 2004 on the It Still Moves tour (and being blown away in the process and a fan ever since) but if this is the direction they are moving I don't think it's something I can get behind. Is anyone else having an issue with this nature of the new album, or am I totally misunderstanding Jim's muse? And...is Two Halves not the stupidest most dumbed-down song MMJ has ever produced?!!! I thought I was listening to Five for Fighting or something when I first heard it.
I kinda think you are over-reacting. This albums has MANY influences. Most old time American music has its roots in Christian music...whether it be gospel music, slave hymns, etc. I'm not an extremely religous person but I don't think there is anything wrong with being spiritual. And artists who get "spiritual" with their music (or as Jim says, "In the Zone") tend to have this result: the music has FEELING. I can see what you are saying with songs like "Look at You" or "Smokin' From Shootin'" but come on....look at the album as a whole. Jim might allude to God in some songs but he could just as easily be singing about a chick (Thank You Too, Look at You). People nowadays are almost scared to talk about (let alone sing about their spirituality)...Jim has balls for showing his all on this record. Regardless of if he is singing praise to God throughout Evil Urges, or if you are just reading into something that isn't there, look at this album's tracks....overtly religous? I just don't see it:
Evil Urges- Jim sings about things not being evil unless it hurts someone.....that isn't very Christian-like.
Touch Me Part 1- "the sounds you make when you are pleased"....again, not very Christian-like to sing about.
Highly Suspicious- This song is just nuts and although Jesus would probably laugh at the giggling and nod his head in enjoyment, there are no religious elements here.
I'm Amazed- Although I don't really know the lyrics, this song seems to be more about Jim's reactions to everything he sees...so not a straight up religous song either
Thank You Too- Again, this song can be looked at a number of ways....he could be thanking someone specific, could be his freaking girlfriend.
Sec Walkin- No God references here brother.
Two Halves- About wanting your cake and eating it too.
Librarian- Don't see anything in the Bible about sexy librarians.
Look At You- I think this is what you are talking about...but come on man, picture Jim singing this to a perfect chick or even his mom for God's sakes (sorry for saying God...don't want this forum to be too religious).
Aluminum Park- nothing.
Remnants- He does mention heaven but this song is too rockin for me to give a shit what he says...
Smokin' from Shootin'- The other song I think you are referring to...again, the song is not blatantly religious. This song could mean so many different things (which is why it is so good).
Touch Me Part 2- Again, no God references.
I don't mean to jump down your throat since this forum is a pretty nice place, but to contemplate not going to a concert because Jim may or may not be singing about God is pretty ridiculous to me.
QuoteI think it'd be interesting to see how many people here would be disappointed (if not utterly repulsed) if Jim were to write a song that was blatantly Christian.
Did he delete his first post?
hahahaha
OK - I'll retract my original post and simply ask this:
How many think MMJ is a Christian rock band in hiding?
sounds like somebody needs to be locked in a room with the doobie's "jesus is just alright with me" ON REPEAT.
feel the love.
I don't believe in the Big JC and think Gospel music is one of the best forms of musical expressions out there. Who cares if the boys got a lil faith?
Doubt Jim will be passing out eucharist at shows anytime soon.
QuoteOK - I'll retract my original post and simply ask this:
How many think MMJ is a Christian rock band in hiding?
Why does that bother you so much?
Bob Dylan was a Christian for a good while and some of his best music (Slow Train) reflected that.
Don't worry your pecker isn't going to fall off if you dig a (somewhat) Christian band.
BTW - I'm the furthest thing from being a Christan. I'm a Philly sports fan, I curse God off everynight.
QuoteHow many think MMJ is a Christian rock band in hiding?
Impossible. They're musicians.
Let me preface by saying MMJ is now my favorite band right now. I too was wondering why so many christian type references are in the songs. I was brought up Jewish, but am about as secular as one could be in my adult years. Honestly, religion means ZERO to me in my life. If anything music and family are my "religion."
The one sense that I do get is the lyrics are more geared toward a "higher power" rather tan a particular religion. Never and Jesus references, but plenty of God type references.
I too am on the "i'd be very disappointed" if they went in a more Christian vibe. To be honest, it would make me a little sick. Just as I don't want religion in my politics, I don't want it in my music either.
Glad someone else brought this up though. This has been on my mind.
QuoteQuote
I kinda think you are over-reacting.
It's good to hear you say that. I may be. Hard core religious people would probably see a lot less of a connection there than I do. But still it's there and seems to be more prevalent on Evil Urges. I completely dug the line from an earlier album (which I might have a word or two off) "To anyone who wondered what old Jebus means to me, take 'em out to go diving in Red Pagoda sea".
Bob Dylan was a Christian for a good while and some of his best music (Slow Train) reflected that.
Bob Dylan was born a Jew and still is one.
QuoteI had the urge to post a sarcastic message saying something to the effect of "I just heard this new album by the contemporary Christian rock band My Morning Jacket...". Having kind of said that anyway, I must follow it up by noting that I find it hard to understand where Jim is coming from nowadays if it's not from a Christian perspective.....
....... or is he really directing his songs towards Jesus?
......with the new album as it seems to have crossed the line into Christian Rock with obvious biblical/religious aspects to almost every song.
.... but if this is the direction they are moving I don't think it's something I can get behind.
I don't think there has been a single "Christian" reference in the history of MMJ. Keep in mind that you have to refer to Jesus for it to be Christian. God?...sure. But there's nothing wrong with that. He's been listening to a lot of Marvin Gaye and falling in love and shit. I mean, you have to thank God for a hot librarian...not Jesus. :o
On the other hand...so what if he/they went Christian for a minute. It wouldn't kill their career. ***see "Blood On the Tracks" by Bob Dylan*** ;)
QuoteI don't think there has been a single "Christian" reference in the history of MMJ. Keep in mind that you have to refer to Jesus for it to be Christian.
Does Jebus count?
QuoteBob Dylan was born a Jew and still is one.
If you're born a Jew, you will die a Jew. Unavoidable.
QuoteQuote
Bob Dylan was a Christian for a good while and some of his best music (Slow Train) reflected that.
I find Dylan's Christian period to be very interesting. I've often wanted to learn more about that and see if it alienated his audience, or if he was able to persuade some of them to come with him, because, after all, he was still the all powerful Bob Dylan back in '78 or so when this became the focus of his music. And why exactly did Dylan get caught up in this. I don't know if there is a book or something which delves into this but I'd like to read it if there is.
Gillian Welch has a lot of this in her music too, but for some reason it doesn't bother me as much. I just think that music stars like Jim James wield a lot of power and influence and need to be careful with how they use that. Sounds like he's using that for good. If Jerry Garcia had ever gone Christian just imagine how many Deadheads would have blindly followed him right down that path. Don't know where I'm going with this. I just read that in Iceland most of the country is atheist or non-religious, yet the majority of the population still believes in elves. That too me is pretty cool.
" If Jerry Garcia had ever gone Christian just imagine how many Deadheads would have blindly followed him right down that path."
I never liked We Bid You Goodnight. It was always just too religious for my tastes.
Quote" If Jerry Garcia had ever gone Christian just imagine how many Deadheads would have blindly followed him right down that path."
I never liked We Bid You Goodnight. It was always just too religious for my tastes.
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not but I may know what you mean. The Grateful Dead were the first real rock band that I could sink my teeth into...got to see them a few times there at the end before Jerry passed... and used them as a springboard to numerous other bands and styles. They kind of helped me differentiate between what was real music and what was not, during formative years. Long story short, I recently saw Dark Star again (whom I've seen many times) and notice that I was uber-sensitive and very analytical with regard to all the biblical references in the music (Greatest Story, My Sisters and My Brothers, and so on). The real "dyed in the wool" Deadheads there in attendance were getting something more congregation-like, community oriented than I was. It was weird but the magic that was there before was gone and it just felt stale and conventional. Part of that is me just getting older and cynical I guess.
Quotesounds like somebody needs to be locked in a room with the doobie's "jesus is just alright with me" ON REPEAT.
feel the love.
I prefer the Byrds' version.
No. I wasn't being sarcastic. I love the Dead and even though they had biblical stories in some of their songs, We Bid you Good Night was the one that I just always hated. Maybe because of the Jesus reference. I'm sure I'll get bashed, but that was not the part of the Dead that inspired me.
Jim James is a spiritual man.
He likes to sing about spirituality. Sure his approach has Christian influences, how could it not? However, would someone please point me to the song where Jim sings "Praise the baby Jesus" on this album? I must be listening to something completely different.
[size=36]Spiritual [ch8800] Religious[/size]
Equating the two is a fundamental mistake. All religions contain contradictions to rationality, or contradictions within the texts themselves. Faith is not necessairly a statement of religiousness.
The only mention of "Jebus" I know of seems to allude to his humaness, not his holiness.
"Would he like to go diving in the Red Pakota Sea."
That's where my forum name came from. ;)
I can honestly say I completely disagree with one of the lyric lines of Smokin from Shootin.
The line about Evolution and faith. To me, there is one answer to the question. There are no two sides to that story in my world. But hey, that's just me.
Just lay low and run through the masterplan, remember what a wonderful man he was!
;)
I think ultimately any reservations about the spiritual overtones on this album will subside, once we can look back on the MMJ catalog as a whole and see Jim's complete master plan, assuming he keeps being artistically challenging like Neil Young and Tom Waits have continued to be. Or at least it'll seem less important. It's just that it is so in your face and present right now on the (ahem, soon to be) new album that's it's a little disconcerting. It's just that we're living in an era where politicians have latched onto and abused the public's affinity for religion and faith to get elected, so much so that I am automatically averse to anything that even hints at religion, even in the form of music coming from a band that is quietly becoming one of the most acclaimed and important bands since we got the interweb. MMJ has the potential to break out and reach beyond music afficionados and into the general public, and I'd rather see them do that by espousing a viewpoint that challenges the prevailing philosophies of the masses, than by using one that so comfortably fits. I don't know if any of this is making sense and I almost regret starting this topic. That's usually my reaction to anything I post in a chat room - I question later what good it did to even voice such an opinion, or if fostering "good" was even my goal in the first place. Perhaps conjuring controversy is the real motivator. O is the one that is real.
i think this thread is totally unnecessary and is accomplishing no good.
Nikkogino Part 2, you are really going out of your way and calling someone out which just makes you look like an ass.
This topic grabs on to me, so it will now be my first post.
First thing: religiousness means following doctrine, worshipping in specific days and at specific times. Spirituality simply means recognizing something larger than yourself. I think of it as a recognition of the continuity of the universe from the molecular to the cellular to the personal to the cultural to the cosmological level. Maybe I took too many science classes/drugs, but that's my view.
I agree that we are living in an era where religion is exploited as a means for political gain, tyranny, violence, misogyny, and the list continues. But that's nothing new. Religion is a double edged sword. There will always be more thoughtful people who understand religion as a means of expressing spirituality and would be find without church/proselytizing etc. Then you have the Pat Robertsons, the Eric Rudolphs, and the Osama bin Ladens (man Robertson would shit his pants to see him lumped in here) who simply obey a set of rules as they see them fit, but without understanding the underlying humanistic, altruistic message. They fail to see the beauty of the world because they have too strict a view of what is good.
Songs like Look At You are not religious songs in that they invite us to sing about how many sons Father Abraham had, but rely on the completely non-Biblical and non-denominational affirmation that the world can be surreal sometimes, and that it may invite some to commune with the divine. Communing with the divine, though we may not call it that, is why we allow ourselves to get lost in the guitar of Lay Low, to get warm and drunk with our friends, and to eat mushrooms and try to find our lost faces. If he starts singing about Jesus rocking, that will scare me, but as long he's singing about how the world still has the potential to amaze us to the point that we think some higher power must be making it happen this way, that's cool with me.
If I remember correctly Jesus Christ IS a board member.....Where IS that dude when you really need him :-/
QuoteThis topic grabs on to me, so it will now be my first post.
First thing: religiousness means following doctrine, worshipping in specific days and at specific times. Spirituality simply means recognizing something larger than yourself. I think of it as a recognition of the continuity of the universe from the molecular to the cellular to the personal to the cultural to the cosmological level. Maybe I took too many science classes/drugs, but that's my view.
I agree that we are living in an era where religion is exploited as a means for political gain, tyranny, violence, misogyny, and the list continues. But that's nothing new. Religion is a double edged sword. There will always be more thoughtful people who understand religion as a means of expressing spirituality and would be find without church/proselytizing etc. Then you have the Pat Robertsons, the Eric Rudolphs, and the Osama bin Ladens (man Robertson would shit his pants to see him lumped in here) who simply obey a set of rules as they see them fit, but without understanding the underlying humanistic, altruistic message. They fail to see the beauty of the world because they have too strict a view of what is good.
Songs like Look At You are not religious songs in that they invite us to sing about how many sons Father Abraham had, but rely on the completely non-Biblical and non-denominational affirmation that the world can be surreal sometimes, and that it may invite some to commune with the divine. Communing with the divine, though we may not call it that, is why we allow ourselves to get lost in the guitar of Lay Low, to get warm and drunk with our friends, and to eat mushrooms and try to find our lost faces. If he starts singing about Jesus rocking, that will scare me, but as long he's singing about how the world still has the potential to amaze us to the point that we think some higher power must be making it happen this way, that's cool with me.
Yes! Thank you for adding some sane words to this convoluted thread. ;)
To get more off topic (because I like where this is going), I'll add a few more thoughts, although I'm afraid most posters will probably just read the title and post away. Anyhow ...
When one can see that all religions are focused on the same light source, it's easy to understand how, when that light shines through the frames of human culture and institutionalized religion, it can appear quite different. Religiosity is neither a necessary nor a sufficient indicator of spirituality.
Western religion personalizes a deity. Christianity goes beyond anthropomorphizing "God" by giving Him a literal human form. It's palatable as it doesn't require any real thinking. The problem is that many religions make the spiritual experience less accessible, rather than more. And it sets the scene for the most profound level of manipulation ... do what we tell you, or you will be punished for eternity.
Spirituality, on the other hand, is intuitive. For me, it's about striving to understand the true relationship of subject and object, one's own relationship with the cosmos. Spirituality is about being fascinated with the simple fact that anything exists at all. It entails a sense of gratefulness for being granted the privilege to take part in this human experience and to have the sound of MMJ grace my eardrums. :)
In the words of Ralph Waldo Emerson:
"... We live in succession, in division, in parts, in particles. Meantime within man is the soul of the whole; the wise silence; the universal beauty, to which every part and particle is equally related, the eternal ONE. And this deep power in which we exist and whose beatitude is all accessible to us, is not only self-sufficing and perfect in every hour, but the act of seeing and the thing seen, the seer and the spectacle, the subject and the object, are one. We see the world piece by piece, as the sun, the moon, the animal, the tree; but the whole, of which these are shining parts, is the soul."Chew on that last bit for a while. Those words contain the most relevatory message a human being is capable of conceiving.
Or perhaps, just go on posting about how MMJ is now a Christian rock band.
QuoteI can honestly say I completely disagree with one of the lyric lines of Smokin from Shootin.
The line about Evolution and faith. To me, there is one answer to the question. There are no two sides to that story in my world. But hey, that's just me.
:)
Listen to the lyrics again.
I think you just heard the words "evolution" and "faith" too close together and jumped to conclusions.
He's not talking about what you're talking about. ;)
QuoteThis topic grabs on to me, so it will now be my first post.
First thing: religiousness means following doctrine, worshipping in specific days and at specific times. Spirituality simply means recognizing something larger than yourself. I think of it as a recognition of the continuity of the universe from the molecular to the cellular to the personal to the cultural to the cosmological level. Maybe I took too many science classes/drugs, but that's my view.
I agree that we are living in an era where religion is exploited as a means for political gain, tyranny, violence, misogyny, and the list continues. But that's nothing new. Religion is a double edged sword. There will always be more thoughtful people who understand religion as a means of expressing spirituality and would be find without church/proselytizing etc. Then you have the Pat Robertsons, the Eric Rudolphs, and the Osama bin Ladens (man Robertson would shit his pants to see him lumped in here) who simply obey a set of rules as they see them fit, but without understanding the underlying humanistic, altruistic message. They fail to see the beauty of the world because they have too strict a view of what is good.
Songs like Look At You are not religious songs in that they invite us to sing about how many sons Father Abraham had, but rely on the completely non-Biblical and non-denominational affirmation that the world can be surreal sometimes, and that it may invite some to commune with the divine. Communing with the divine, though we may not call it that, is why we allow ourselves to get lost in the guitar of Lay Low, to get warm and drunk with our friends, and to eat mushrooms and try to find our lost faces. If he starts singing about Jesus rocking, that will scare me, but as long he's singing about how the world still has the potential to amaze us to the point that we think some higher power must be making it happen this way, that's cool with me.
Welcome home, man. Take your shoes off, get comfy. Please stay a while. Let me know if I can help you out in any way shape or form.
Other new guys, take note: This is GOOD FORM.
QuoteQuoteThis topic grabs on to me, so it will now be my first post.
First thing: religiousness means following doctrine, worshipping in specific days and at specific times. Spirituality simply means recognizing something larger than yourself. I think of it as a recognition of the continuity of the universe from the molecular to the cellular to the personal to the cultural to the cosmological level. Maybe I took too many science classes/drugs, but that's my view.
I agree that we are living in an era where religion is exploited as a means for political gain, tyranny, violence, misogyny, and the list continues. But that's nothing new. Religion is a double edged sword. There will always be more thoughtful people who understand religion as a means of expressing spirituality and would be find without church/proselytizing etc. Then you have the Pat Robertsons, the Eric Rudolphs, and the Osama bin Ladens (man Robertson would shit his pants to see him lumped in here) who simply obey a set of rules as they see them fit, but without understanding the underlying humanistic, altruistic message. They fail to see the beauty of the world because they have too strict a view of what is good.
Songs like Look At You are not religious songs in that they invite us to sing about how many sons Father Abraham had, but rely on the completely non-Biblical and non-denominational affirmation that the world can be surreal sometimes, and that it may invite some to commune with the divine. Communing with the divine, though we may not call it that, is why we allow ourselves to get lost in the guitar of Lay Low, to get warm and drunk with our friends, and to eat mushrooms and try to find our lost faces. If he starts singing about Jesus rocking, that will scare me, but as long he's singing about how the world still has the potential to amaze us to the point that we think some higher power must be making it happen this way, that's cool with me.
Yes! Thank you for adding some sane words to this convoluted thread. ;)
To get more off topic (because I like where this is going), I'll add a few more thoughts, although I'm afraid most posters will probably just read the title and post away. Anyhow ...
When one can see that all religions are focused on the same light source, it's easy to understand how, when that light shines through the frames of human culture and institutionalized religion, it can appear quite different. Religiosity is neither a necessary nor a sufficient indicator of spirituality.
Western religion personalizes a deity. Christianity goes beyond anthropomorphizing "God" by giving Him a literal human form. It's palatable as it doesn't require any real thinking. The problem is that many religions make the spiritual experience more inaccessible, rather than less. And it sets the scene for the most profound level of manipulation ... do what we tell you, or you will be punished for eternity.
Spirituality, on the other hand, is intuitive. For me, it's about striving to understand the true relationship of subject and object, one's own relationship with the cosmos. Spirituality is about being fascinated with the simple fact that anything exists at all. It entails a sense of gratefulness for being granted the privilege to take part in this human experience.
In the words of Ralph Waldo Emerson:
"... We live in succession, in division, in parts, in particles. Meantime within man is the soul of the whole; the wise silence; the universal beauty, to which every part and particle is equally related, the eternal ONE. And this deep power in which we exist and whose beatitude is all accessible to us, is not only self-sufficing and perfect in every hour, but the act of seeing and the thing seen, the seer and the spectacle, the subject and the object, are one. We see the world piece by piece, as the sun, the moon, the animal, the tree; but the whole, of which these are shining parts, is the soul."
Chew on that last bit for a while. Those words contain the most relevatory message a human being is capable of conceiving.
Or perhaps, just go on posting about how MMJ is now a Christian rock band.
Amen.
Quotei think this thread is totally unnecessary and is accomplishing no good.
Nikkogino Part 2, you are really going out of your way and calling someone out which just makes you look like an ass.
I didn't start this thread....tannisroot was the originator of the thread and he deleted his post and now it looks like I made it. He came on asking people what they thought...I answered. How does that make me look like an ass?
Tannisroot...why did you delete your original post?
QuoteQuotei think this thread is totally unnecessary and is accomplishing no good.
Nikkogino Part 2, you are really going out of your way and calling someone out which just makes you look like an ass.
I didn't start this thread....tannisroot was the originator of the thread and he deleted his post and now it looks like I made it. He came on asking for people what they thought...I answered. How does that make me look like an ass?
Tannisroot...why did you delete your original post?
You should delete your post and then things will really get confusing! ;D
QuoteQuoteQuotei think this thread is totally unnecessary and is accomplishing no good.
Nikkogino Part 2, you are really going out of your way and calling someone out which just makes you look like an ass.
I didn't start this thread....tannisroot was the originator of the thread and he deleted his post and now it looks like I made it. He came on asking for people what they thought...I answered. How does that make me look like an ass?
Tannisroot...why did you delete your original post?
You should delete your post and then things will really get confusing! ;D
I know right.
Seriously though...I love the new album and I love the SPIRITUALITY that some people seem to be so afraid off. I don't go to church on Sundays and I'm not a bible-beater. But I like how Jim is singing about shit he cares about. I don't see what the fuss is about. I'm suprised we didn't hear some of these people whining about "I think I'm going to hell."
I guess I deleted my original post because I was somewhat embarrassed or maybe even ashamed of even posting it. I dunno. I have a tendency to write something up real quick before a crystallized idea of what I'm saying has formed and then regretting it after the fact. But some cool stuff is being said here now. I like how MMJ has attracted an audience able to eloquently verse and discuss such transcendent concepts. If that's really where Jim is coming from then that's pretty inspiring. Looking back, that's maybe while I stayed up all night (completely sober and drug free mind you) after first seeing them, listening over and over to It Still Moves and looking at the lyrics, then watching a Joseph Campbell DVD, then talking about the concert to people for days on end. At the time it was January and I was receptive to a spiritual message and I received one. Now four years later I'm not as receptive to this message although it seems to be getting stronger in the music. It's better that we don't know for sure where he's coming from. I guess it's hard to convey these abstract concepts, especially in the form of rock music that hits your right in the groin and not the brain at times. It's just that upon hearing Evil Urges I was thinking that my worst fears regarding this band were coming true...that this guy who I thought had great insight into the world really is no more than just another guy from Kentucky with not quite the expanded world view that I once thought he had.
The only thing I saw in that Emerson quote that I'm not sure I agree with is the part about "within man is the soul of the whole". While that may be true, whatever he means by the word "soul" probably resides in more than just man. I'm kind of the Robinson Jeffers point of view, that man is just an evolutionary aberration. Here's my favorite (non-poetic) Jeffers quote:
I believe that the Universe is one being, all its parts are different
expressions of the same energy, and they are all in communication with each
other, therefore parts of one organic whole.This whole is in all its parts
so beautiful, and is felt by me to be so intensely in earnest, that I am
compelled to love it and to think of it as divine. It seems to me that this
whole alone is worthy of the deeper sort of love and there is peace,
freedom, I might say a kind of salvation, in turning one's affections
outward toward this one God, rather than inwards on one's self, or on
humanity, or on human imaginations and abstractions--the world of spirits.
Anyone who is shocked at the spirituality that may exist in Evil Urges is clearly an enormous idiot who has never paid close attention to My Morning Jacket's music on previous albums. I mean, you needn't even go further back than Z to see it: "What a Wonderful Man" could very easily be (and, indeed, often is) interpreted to be about God or Jesus. And "Gideon"? There is obviously a concern for religion in that song.
So, for some reason, someone is listening to Evil Urges and all of a sudden sees Christianity or spirituality in the music? Um, no fucking duh. Where the hell have you been?
QuoteAnyone who is shocked at the spirituality that may exist in Evil Urges is clearly an enormous idiot who has never paid close attention to My Morning Jacket's music on previous albums. I mean, you needn't even go further back than Z to see it: "What a Wonderful Man" could very easily be (and, indeed, often is) interpreted to be about God or Jesus. And "Gideon"? There is obviously a concern for religion in that song.
So, for some reason, someone is listening to Evil Urges and all of a sudden sees Christianity or spirituality in the music? Um, no fucking duh. Where the hell have you been?
agreed.
QuoteAnd "Gideon"? There is obviously a concern for religion in that song.
On the subject of Gideon, I wrote this post a year or so ago. Hope you don't mind the short novel I have written,
Quote from: corywaring link=1137819802/0#10 date=1137945941I have met people who are so quick to advertise christianity "If your saved you can do anything you want and stiil be forgiven!" I think this gives people an excuse to piss on their fellow human beings without being punished.
Unfortunately, many people (both the young and old) choose to decide on what their Bible says about particulars without ever actually picking it up and studying it. For this reason, you may find that most self-proclaimed Christians are, in fact, not Christians - but what I call members of the ever-growing Custom-fitted Religion.
More and more people are deciding, "Hmm. This particular law of the Word doesn't really sit well with me, so I think I want my God to say it's okay to be a dickhead my entire life, so long as I say "Sorry" on my deathbed. Yea, that works for me."
And fewer and fewer people are coming to understand the teachings of Christ and what he came for. It's your typical realworld paradox that so many prejudiced, hateful people pretend to be deeply religious followers of Jesus.
In my book, Jesus clearly states to his disciples that he came here
only for the sick - who he called the lost sheep. This is why I believe that, of all people, Jesus holds priority for those "on the fringe" that are cast out by society... Afterall, Jesus said it himself, it is not the healthy who need a doctor.
I think the worst part about this 'Custom Religion' thing is that the Church and its Leaders have often shown our youth that it is
okay to pick-and-choose what the Bible says, because no matter what you do and who you hurt - you'll be forgiven. Just look at the number of Priests and TV Elitists (no, I didn't mean to say Evangelists) who have been caught with hookers and little choir boys...
As a Christian of 2 years, it's fucking disgusting and disheartening to see these things happening.
QuoteTRULY. TRULY WE HAVE BECOME. HATED AND FEARED FOR SOMETHING WE DON'T WANT.
LISTEN. LISTEN. MOST OF US BELIEVE THAT THIS IS WRONG.
Does this line not sound as if its coming from the heart and soul of a present day Christian? Are not Christians feared and hated for something that we (Christians) have clearly defined as wrong? Most of us believe that
this, that is, the new standards of Custom-fitted Christians, is completely wrong!
So lets back it up, I'll explain why I think
this refers to the Custom-fitted Religion (and I've only used Christianity as an example because that's who I am).
QuoteRELIGION - SHOULD APPEAL TO THE HEARTS OF THE YOUNG. WHO ARE YOU? WHAT HAVE YOU BECOME?
YOU ANIMAL. COME ON. WHAT DOES THIS REMIND YOU OF?
Religion should appeal to the hearts of the young - as the youth is universally associated with being pure and uncorrupted. I think we all agree on that, so far...
So, what
has become this religion? I'd certainly define present day organized religion as an animal, and I'd even go so far as to relate the current day Church (a social affair, as opposed to a forum of faith), as the same Church that existed during the day of the Judges (where we meet Gideon)... Corrupt.
The Book of Judges. That's what
this reminds
me of.
Who knows, I may be way off... It's how I've come to interpret it, though. Perhaps this song is asking for another Judge, of sorts? Someone, like Gideon, to come out of the woodwork (or off the wall, so to speak), and rescue the hearts of the young from the corruption of the Church. Someone to remind his assembly of who Gideon, that guy collecting dust in the stained glass windows, exactly was - and what he stood for.
While they're at it - go ahead and remind their assembly of who exactly that Jesus Christ guy was, too.
I don't really care, but I thought some of you might not have heard the Jim James interview presented on NPR before the live SXSW stream. You can hear the interview here (The interview link is below the Hear Complete Concert link): http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88163634
He talks about religion/spirituality and, specifically, THE ZONE.
Or check out MMJ breaking down some of their new songs at Rolling Stone: http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/mymorningjacket/videos/video/20177625/my_morning_jacket_break_down_tracks_from_the_bands_upcoming_record
Quote...that this guy who I thought had great insight into the world really is no more than just another guy from Kentucky with not quite the expanded world view that I once thought he had.
Ouch.
I'm not in any position to disagree with you t, I haven't heard the new songs. You've obviously thought about this though, and I appreciate that. I have a feeling that your interpreations are a little (maybe a lot) off-base, and I'm fairly certain that we don't need to worry about MMJ going all God Rock on us.
A few months ago, I was wondering about how writing in Colorado would affect the songs on their upcoming album. Maybe these lyrical references you guys have been discussing came about from Jim's spirituality being tickled by the natural beauty of the Rockies. I know I've had really profound spiritual inspiration bubble up while being surrounded by an amazing natural environment.
Thanks for starting the thread though t...it's brought up some good discussion.
QuoteAnyone who is shocked at the spirituality that may exist in Evil Urges is clearly an enormous idiot who has never paid close attention to My Morning Jacket's music on previous albums. I mean, you needn't even go further back than Z to see it: "What a Wonderful Man" could very easily be (and, indeed, often is) interpreted to be about God or Jesus. And "Gideon"? There is obviously a concern for religion in that song.
So, for some reason, someone is listening to Evil Urges and all of a sudden sees Christianity or spirituality in the music? Um, no fucking duh. Where the hell have you been?
I probably won't post too much more here because it's becoming pointless but it's not all of a sudden with Evil Urges, I have noticed it all along. I am hoping that I am just really noticing the presence of it on Evil Urges because I was looking for it to begin with. Maybe it is no different than before. Gideon, I thought, was a good way of saying what he was saying (admittedly I've never felt the need to open a Bible or go to church so I'm not getting the full impact on that one, although I use to assume that what I get from a concert must be similar to what others get from church, or Star Trek or football). I remember reading an interview where Jim said Gideon was about a parrot, which made sense to me. What I like about "What A Wonderful Man" is that at first glance it seems to be about one thing, but hopefully isn't. Easy Morning Rebel the same thing. What I think it boils down to is there is less of a void for Evil Urges to fill than there was for previous albums..
Very nice post Angry Ewok. :)
Although it ain't just Christianity that's lost its way ...
I don't call myself a Christian, but I believe that Christ was undoubtedly one of the greatest spiritual teachers of all time.
QuoteThe only thing I saw in that Emerson quote that I'm not sure I agree with is the part about "within man is the soul of the whole". While that may be true, whatever he means by the word "soul" probably resides in more than just man.
Maybe the section just preceding that Emerson quote will clear things up:
The Supreme Critic on the errors of the past and the present, and the only prophet of that which must be, is that great nature in which we rest, as the earth lies in the soft arms of the atmosphere; that Unity, that Over-soul, within which every man's particular being is contained and made one with all other; that common heart.There are few who sense the pervasive presence of the divine in nature more acutely than Ralph Waldo Emerson. These quotations are from an essay inspired by the Vedic concept of trancendental unity entitled, "The Over-soul".
And thanks tannisroot, I enjoyed the quote you posted.
No need to leave so soon. ;)
Go listen to those links posted above. They'll make you feel better. And don't be so quick to find points of contention in the lyrics ... the meanings of these songs could be debated until the end of time. Listen to Jim, allow the lyrics to take on whatever meanings you desire.
QuoteQuoteAnyone who is shocked at the spirituality that may exist in Evil Urges is clearly an enormous idiot who has never paid close attention to My Morning Jacket's music on previous albums. I mean, you needn't even go further back than Z to see it: "What a Wonderful Man" could very easily be (and, indeed, often is) interpreted to be about God or Jesus. And "Gideon"? There is obviously a concern for religion in that song.
So, for some reason, someone is listening to Evil Urges and all of a sudden sees Christianity or spirituality in the music? Um, no fucking duh. Where the hell have you been?
What I like about "What A Wonderful Man" is that at first glance it seems to be about one thing, but hopefully isn't.
but hopefully isn't? if jim is religious and sings about god, allah, buddah, than that's up to him. "Hopefully" Jim is singing about something he cares about.
"Christianity and everyone who is Christian or makes any comment that could be construed as Christian is BAD BAD BAD." <---this seems to be your viewpoint.
Evil Urges is not a Christian band playing songs for God....it is Jim being spiritual about whatever the hell he wants to be spiritual about....THAT IS A GOOD THING for him and for the listener. can we end the discussion now????????????????
tappisroot- nothing is being shoved down your throat. you are not a victim. if you don't like these songs because you are pulling a "christian" feel from them, then stop listening. also throw away all of the other records that mention the word god or thank or talk about something that COULD BE god.
i
-----
it
Pardon while I beat this dead horse here, but I just listened one more time and have to say, my view is shifted a bit. Not about commune with the divine, the band writing good songs, but on the point of the album not containing anything doctrinal.
(Note: I'm not a churchgoer, but I do like to ponder these kinds of things)
In Thank You Too he sings, "It was strange and it was soothing, and you could even say amusing the way you came to me. You devised a simple plan that would change the fate of man, you thought of everything." And later, "you really saw my naked heart, you really brought out the naked part." If he ain't talking about the big man, I'm not sure what he's doing. There are additional "churchy" references throughout, though the lyrics never come out and tell us "do this, do that, I'm right, you're wrong."
Here's what I think. Previous posts were right that religious questioning is all over MMJ. We can certainly all agree that one of the most tantalizing things about the music is the pathos of incompleteness. In Golden, "bars are dark and lonely, talk is often cheap and filled with air." In Death is the Easy Way, "alcohol just makes you tired." With Steam Engine, I hear the lyric "I do believe none of this is physical" as someone struggling to convince himself that he's found completion in another person. So what's drawn me to the Jacket is the search for meaning. Clearly drugs, alcohol, sex, and friendship have been explored. That's not to say that those avenues have been exhausted, because at least without the latter two, you're antisocial. Without all of them, why rock? I really don't want to tell you what the band is figuring out given that I've never talked them, but I think the newer lyrics simply reflect another approach to their search.
What's telling, however, is the line "I don't know what you would do, I just want to thank you for thinking of me." We don't need to worry about proselytization from our llama loving friends. If they've gotten religion, they've really gotten it, and maintained that all important humility. They aren't so bold as to think they know God's plan, but they're glad he's on the side of man.
With that, I'm going to quit talking about the album. Buzz is good, but it probably sucks to see the so much picking and prodding about your album that the verdict is in before it's even released.
Dude, some of you all write a chapter per post. This is a rawk band.(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h280/GrnCrcl/GIFs/rockout3si1.gif)
Stay focused.
QuoteDude, some of you all write a chapter per post. This is a rawk band.(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h280/GrnCrcl/GIFs/rockout3si1.gif)
Stay focused.
;D
I didn't see a dead horse ... :-?
The Christian mythos has an undeniable presence in the band's work.
Yet Jim's comments in the link above point to this ineffable concept that were trying talk about here. His vague descriptions of thoughts on religion and spirituality like "I can never settle on anything ..." or "Jesus is neither hither nor thither for me, because I hear God" are enough for me to have enormous respect for the man. It's clear he's no fool, and he's in his own personal search for meaning.
There's a reason that the topic of spirituality pops up here so often. Not only is a spiritual worldview reflected in the band's lyrics, but it's also the passion and the otherworldliness of their music that really lays the groundwork for trancendental experience. And then the mushrooms ... those don't hurt either.
I am reading all this, hanging on to every word as if it were life and death, and, I look down, and noticed that my shoes are on the wrong feet.
QuoteDude, some of you all write a chapter per post. This is a rawk band.(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h280/GrnCrcl/GIFs/rockout3si1.gif)
Stay focused.
I'm going to go ahead and suggest you stay out of any of the spirituality discussions if you don't want to see any books being written around here. Seriously, not to be an ass at all, but as someone who's been around here for quite a while and who winds up writing books most of the time when I post, it's pretty disheartening to have a comment like yours pop up after we've put some serious effort into what we've written.
The above commentary is really insightful, powerful, well-written and well-thought-out. You may not personally care to read such material, and if that's your stance, then don't. But there's absolutely no need to chide anyone for doing so, and to rub it in repeatedly. That's been done before. That's been worn into the ground before. It's frustrating for the writer, and it really doesn't promote or propagate good discussion. Rather, it puts the brakes on. And with newer members providing such good long insights, I'd really rather not lose them because the first shorter response to their posts has been yours.
Once again, not to be an ass. Just choose your words wisely, and take note of when what you say will be something helpful, useful, interesting, provoking, funny, or just all around GOOD. If it doesn't contribute something positive, then it's probably best to leave it out.
Feel the board out a little more, and if you like, please join in on the discussion here. And if you don't care to, might as well leave the responding to those who are interested here. Because I guarantee, there are a good deal of us who are honestly heavily digging what these two new guys have had to say.
That said, this is a rawk band! And a really inspired one at that.
Peace,
Tom
It's really strange how you hear things so much clearer after the first listen. I've only had three so far, but you know what......I love this album. And this love is coming from an old school MMJ fan who could listen to an eternal loop of I Needed It Most/Nashville To Kentucky/Sweetheart/Rollin' Back. Highly Suspicious is just fun....period. Don't overanylyze it. To me, the weakest song is probably Aluminum Park.....it sounds like something they could've tossed off in their sleep. I'm Amazed sort of conjures the same thoughts, but I just like it more. Two Halves didn't seem like much at first, but gets better with repeat listens. Touch Me Part 1 is quite a revelation....really interesting sound. Touch Me Part 2 is a downright classic.....I want a whole MMJ disco album someday. Thank You Too is pure beauty. Librarian and Sec Walkin' are other early faves. And it surprises me to say this, but I think Remnants is amazing. But the guys are on a path and there's no turning back. Listen to the 5 albums in a row, it's clear. Lookin' forward to release day for the better sound of the real CD. Great job guys.
QuoteQuoteDude, some of you all write a chapter per post. This is a rawk band.(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h280/GrnCrcl/GIFs/rockout3si1.gif)
Stay focused.
I'm going to go ahead and suggest you stay out of any of the spirituality discussions if you don't want to see any books being written around here. Seriously, not to be an ass at all, but as someone who's been around here for quite a while and who winds up writing books most of the time when I post, it's pretty disheartening to have a comment like yours pop up after we've put some serious effort into what we've written.
The above commentary is really insightful, powerful, well-written and well-thought-out. You may not personally care to read such material, and if that's your stance, then don't. But there's absolutely no need to chide anyone for doing so, and to rub it in repeatedly. That's been done before. That's been worn into the ground before. It's frustrating for the writer, and it really doesn't promote or propagate good discussion. Rather, it puts the brakes on. And with newer members providing such good long insights, I'd really rather not lose them because the first shorter response to their posts has been yours.
Once again, not to be an ass. Just choose your words wisely, and take note of when what you say will be something helpful, useful, interesting, provoking, funny, or just all around GOOD. If it doesn't contribute something positive, then it's probably best to leave it out.
Feel the board out a little more, and if you like, please join in on the discussion here. And if you don't care to, might as well leave the responding to those who are interested here. Because I guarantee, there are a good deal of us who are honestly heavily digging what these two new guys have had to say.
That said, this is a rawk band! And a really inspired one at that.
Peace,
Tom
Tom, you are my hero. Wise words from a wise MMJ fan.
Haha, I do my best!
Shit's been hard to keep civil around here, but I think the storm of assery has subsided, and it shows itself pretty nicely in these two new guys that showed up today. Figured it was time to write some more books and get back to normal, eh?
QuoteHaha, I do my best!
Shit's been hard to keep civil around here, but I think the storm of assery has subsided, and it shows itself pretty nicely in these two new guys that showed up today. Figured it was time to write some more books and get back to normal, eh?
I have to say, you sure are all over the topics of an album you haven't even heard. I would have guessed you would be avoiding these types of threads, considering your feelings about listening to an album that was not even intended to be listened to......yet. I hope it's not spoiling anything for you. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
-Brian
QuoteQuoteDude, some of you all write a chapter per post. This is a rawk band.(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h280/GrnCrcl/GIFs/rockout3si1.gif)
Stay focused.
I'm going to go ahead and suggest you stay out of any of the spirituality discussions if you don't want to see any books being written around here. Seriously, not to be an ass at all, but as someone who's been around here for quite a while and who winds up writing books most of the time when I post, it's pretty disheartening to have a comment like yours pop up after we've put some serious effort into what we've written.
The above commentary is really insightful, powerful, well-written and well-thought-out. You may not personally care to read such material, and if that's your stance, then don't. But there's absolutely no need to chide anyone for doing so, and to rub it in repeatedly. That's been done before. That's been worn into the ground before. It's frustrating for the writer, and it really doesn't promote or propagate good discussion. Rather, it puts the brakes on. And with newer members providing such good long insights, I'd really rather not lose them because the first shorter response to their posts has been yours.
Once again, not to be an ass. Just choose your words wisely, and take note of when what you say will be something helpful, useful, interesting, provoking, funny, or just all around GOOD. If it doesn't contribute something positive, then it's probably best to leave it out.
Feel the board out a little more, and if you like, please join in on the discussion here. And if you don't care to, might as well leave the responding to those who are interested here. Because I guarantee, there are a good deal of us who are honestly heavily digging what these two new guys have had to say.
That said, this is a rawk band! And a really inspired one at that.
Peace,
Tom
I like insightful posts as much as the next guy, but I took this as a light hearted joke.
QuoteBob Dylan was a Christian for a good while and some of his best music (Slow Train) reflected that.
Bob Dylan was born a Jew and still is one.
You don't know your Bob Dylan Friend-o
He was born a Jew converted to Christianity for a while and then converted back to being a Jew.
QuoteQuoteQuoteDude, some of you all write a chapter per post. This is a rawk band.(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h280/GrnCrcl/GIFs/rockout3si1.gif)
Stay focused.
I'm going to go ahead and suggest you stay out of any of the spirituality discussions if you don't want to see any books being written around here. Seriously, not to be an ass at all, but as someone who's been around here for quite a while and who winds up writing books most of the time when I post, it's pretty disheartening to have a comment like yours pop up after we've put some serious effort into what we've written.
The above commentary is really insightful, powerful, well-written and well-thought-out. You may not personally care to read such material, and if that's your stance, then don't. But there's absolutely no need to chide anyone for doing so, and to rub it in repeatedly. That's been done before. That's been worn into the ground before. It's frustrating for the writer, and it really doesn't promote or propagate good discussion. Rather, it puts the brakes on. And with newer members providing such good long insights, I'd really rather not lose them because the first shorter response to their posts has been yours.
Once again, not to be an ass. Just choose your words wisely, and take note of when what you say will be something helpful, useful, interesting, provoking, funny, or just all around GOOD. If it doesn't contribute something positive, then it's probably best to leave it out.
Feel the board out a little more, and if you like, please join in on the discussion here. And if you don't care to, might as well leave the responding to those who are interested here. Because I guarantee, there are a good deal of us who are honestly heavily digging what these two new guys have had to say.
That said, this is a rawk band! And a really inspired one at that.
Peace,
Tom
I like insightful posts as much as the next guy, but I took this as a light hearted joke.
Dammit--I need to not post so late at night. Either way, I'm diggin the threads and insightful posts
...maybe throw in some winks until we get to know you new guys' senses of humor better? So there's no bad blood or messy communication? This is the internet, folks...
That said, after getting harassed a bit by someone here, it made me a bit resentful, because when I wanted to post a big thing about something I was really into, I had that person's words going through my head discouraging me. Not a whole lot of fun, and I don't really give a crap what said person thinks anymore, but it was definitely discouraging. Probably even moreso to someone with a lower post-count.
So, no sweat. Sorry if I ranted. Especially sorry if I messed up the joke or took it too seriously--just didn't want to see people run off when they were sharing some good thoughts by misunderstanding a comment like that.
Dammit--I wrote another book.
Peace!
Tom
Quote
That said, after getting harassed a bit by someone here, it made me a bit resentful, because when I wanted to post a big thing about something I was really into, I had that person's words going through my head discouraging me. Not a whole lot of fun, and I don't really give a crap what said person thinks anymore, but it was definitely discouraging. Probably even moreso to someone with a lower post-count.
Well, thankfully, he's gone... and all is right with the world once again.
:)
Tom, great post. I couldn't agree with you more. I am 75% lurker and I really enjoy some of the insight you guys put into your posts. If someone doesn't care to read it, all they have to do is skip the post to the "easier" ones, haha. Or maybe they can just read the posts with pictures, maybe that wouldn't be so hard on the brain.
I love discussing lyrics and meanings to songs, because there is no right/wrong answer. Definitely some interesting takes on new/old songs that definitely made me think about a lot of things, and that is what great music does.
P.S. I'm still trying to figure out what the hell Jim meant when he said "I was wantin' some ICE CREEEAAAM, he knew exactly what I meant." ......just brilliant
I read a great piece on My Morning Jacket the other day. All the discussion in this thread about My Morning Jacket being a Christian band or what Jim James' religion is can easily be answered in his own words, and his answer was pretty much what I figured it would be, given what I've interpreted his lyrics as meaning and from what I've read about his views on the subject before. This is from the very end of the article:
'The album's title, Evil Urges, reflects James' own fascination with organized religion, morality and his personal struggles to find faith.
"It's funny thinking of human beings and their urges, and how their urges can be unrealistic fantasies at times. The whole notion of morality has been skewed by organized religion. People end up doing all kinds of crazy things and are willing to engage in all sorts of arguments about faith," James says. "I think about religion a lot, from listening to gospel music, to attending church trying to find some sort of faith for myself. I haven't been able to find it yet. I've tried hard, but something's just not hitting me."
Maybe he should go to a My Morning Jacket concert.'
You can find the full article here and I highly recommend you read it:
http://www.laweekly.com/music/music/why-my-morning-jacket-is-the-best-live-band-in-the-world/18716/?page=1
The lyrics place "ICE CREAM" in apostrophes, so I'm pretty sure he ain't craving Blue Bell.
;)
And for the record, since this thread is titled "Praise for Evil Urges?", I posted my intitial thoughts on the album in another thread:
As with every MMJ album before it, this one is a grower for me. After the first 3 or 4 listens I wasn't really sure what to think of it. But now that I have a few more under my belt, it is becoming severely addicting. I think it is never wise to review an MMJ album until you've listened to it at least 10 times as their songs almost always take a while to really reveal themselves. My faves so far are I'm Amazed, Thank You Too (sounds sappy at first listen but, man, I love it now - great production and great playing, especially during the guitar solo), and the Smokin' From Shootin' and Touch Me Part 2 combo. As far as Highly Suspicious, I think there are some great ideas in that song but it is poorly executed, mostly in the beginning verses. Jim is just singing out of his range, which is understandable if you can't quite hit it live, but you shouldn't be singing something you can't hit when recording an album. The good news is that Highly Suspicious fucking ripped live once the dual guitars came in at SXSW. If you aren't really digging the album, give it a few more listens and it quite possibly will change your mind.
For the record Tom, if he wasn't kidding I agree with you 100%.
The intertrons are a very serious place. This is serious thread.
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h280/GrnCrcl/GIFs/pickle4.gif)
Please do not take my scury pickle lightly.
QuoteThe intertrons are a very serious place. This is serious thread.
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h280/GrnCrcl/GIFs/pickle4.gif)
Please do not take my scury pickle lightly.
What is that?????????????? ;D
Though I disagree with your earlier post, I just think you got in the wrong thread @ the wrong time.
QuoteThe intertrons are a very serious place. This is serious thread.
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h280/GrnCrcl/GIFs/pickle4.gif)
Please do not take my scury pickle lightly.
That's incredible.
Welcome aboard, fellow intertron'r!
Good review right here:
http://obscuresound.com/?p=1897