My Morning Jacket

is starting to sound foolish. You can very well understand the direction the band is moving in if you're a fan, even if you're only familiar with It Still Moves and Z. Its also possible that people simply dont like that direction. Thats OK too, ya know? Not everyone who doesnt care for it fails to "get it". That sounds like a cop out on the part of those who do like the album. Its much easier to dismiss someone with "You dont understand" than it is to consider that what sounds great to you sounds bad to someone else.

With that said, I really like Evil Urges. To me half the fun was listening to what I thought I knew become something else entirely. But this isnt the first time in history that a band or musician has turned in an effort that seems off the wall compared to earlier recordings. Neil Young did a rockabilly album in the 80s. When Pearl Jam released Vitalogy people were very slow to respond. Those are just 2 examples off the top of my head. There is nothing wrong with branching out and being creative, but at the same time theres nothing wrong with a fan saying "thanks, but Im not really digging this".

As for me, I find it all to be exciting. For quite awhile I pretty much exclusively listened to older music of the 60s and 70s. While I still love that music, something must be said for having access to an entire discography from the start actually becoming constraining. You cant appreciate a discovery if its made literally 2 hours after what you thought was a defining moment. I thought the age of the great rock band was over, but I was wrong. And now I can experience it as it happens; Im along for the ride this time, and I havent been disappointed yet.  I cant wait for next Friday for my little pilgrimage to Radio City because I think the new stuff is going to melt my face live. But from the first 10 minutes you know its going to be a polarizing album. I think history will be kinder to it than a lot of critics are now. While I think Z will be looked at as the bridge between "Old MMJ" and "New MMJ", I believe Evil Urges will be regarded as the album where they left the trail for a path yet undefined.

Rant/ramble over.

Well of course it's a cop out.  Get it?  What's to 'get'?  It ain't Sun Ra for crying out loud.  Some fans are digging it, others less so.  Nothing to do with some snobbish idea about 'getting it'.  That's the defence mechanism for fans who take this shit a bit personal and get a bit peeved when some folk disagree with 'em.  'Get it' indeed.  What silliness.

Silliness indeed.

You don't get music.  It gets you-- or it doesn't.

i love new members.

thanks for blessing us with your opinions.

Quotei love new members.

thanks for blessing us with your opinions.

That are so less worthy than yours presumably?

Quote

Quotei love new members.

thanks for blessing us with your opinions.

That are so less worthy than yours presumably?

Right On Goat.  Where is all this animosity coming from?  Newbies opinions can be a breath of fresh air.  And even if that is not the case, they've just as much right to form and express an opinion about the band's music as us old farts.
 [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Quote

Quotei love new members.

thanks for blessing us with your opinions.

That are so less worthy than yours presumably?

obviously.... ;)

quit trying to bait me into a fight.

Quoteis starting to sound foolish. You can very well understand the direction the band is moving in if you're a fan, even if you're only familiar with It Still Moves and Z. Its also possible that people simply dont like that direction. Thats OK too, ya know? Not everyone who doesnt care for it fails to "get it". That sounds like a cop out on the part of those who do like the album. Its much easier to dismiss someone with "You dont understand" than it is to consider that what sounds great to you sounds bad to someone else.

With that said, I really like Evil Urges. To me half the fun was listening to what I thought I knew become something else entirely. But this isnt the first time in history that a band or musician has turned in an effort that seems off the wall compared to earlier recordings. Neil Young did a rockabilly album in the 80s. When Pearl Jam released Vitalogy people were very slow to respond. Those are just 2 examples off the top of my head. There is nothing wrong with branching out and being creative, but at the same time theres nothing wrong with a fan saying "thanks, but Im not really digging this".

As for me, I find it all to be exciting. For quite awhile I pretty much exclusively listened to older music of the 60s and 70s. While I still love that music, something must be said for having access to an entire discography from the start actually becoming constraining. You cant appreciate a discovery if its made literally 2 hours after what you thought was a defining moment. I thought the age of the great rock band was over, but I was wrong. And now I can experience it as it happens; Im along for the ride this time, and I havent been disappointed yet.  I cant wait for next Friday for my little pilgrimage to Radio City because I think the new stuff is going to melt my face live. But from the first 10 minutes you know its going to be a polarizing album. I think history will be kinder to it than a lot of critics are now. While I think Z will be looked at as the bridge between "Old MMJ" and "New MMJ", I believe Evil Urges will be regarded as the album where they left the trail for a path yet undefined.

Rant/ramble over.

when i said "get it" i didn't mean in some pretentious my-taste-in-music-is-better-than-yours way or even in an intellectual sense that i "got" and you didn't b/c your brain is as you would say, "rubbish."

i just meant in a general sense that the album obviously didn't affect some as it did others.  i "got it" in the sense that the emotions and themes on the record really touch me (pun intended) and i can understand where Jim is coming from.  if you don't feel that way, then i guess you didn't, for a lack of a better term, "get it."  this doesn't mean i'm smarter or cooler or hipper than you, but it just means i really connected with this album...no more, no less.

sorry to use such an ambiguous term, which obviously seems to have hit a chord with you.

Quotei love new members.

thanks for blessing us with your opinions.

See, this is the cool thing: the message board kind of works just like the music! How about that?!?! See, you can either take it or leave it, or try to be a smug prick about it. I appreciate the choice you have made. And while I may not have a ton of posts (really, is this that important? Does quantity really signal quality or the degree to which one is a fan?) Ive been listening to the band since 2001, so its not like Im just talking out of my ass.

I take a more nontraditional approach myself: I dont mind new members; I reserve my disdain for older members who believe their prolonged presence on an internet message board somehow equates to some sort of superiority. As far as I know in the terms of use this place is described as a place where people can talk about the band. I must have missed the part where it said only those who have pissed away countless hours behind their computers can talk about the band. I didnt know posting was the Red Badge of No Social Skills. In the future I'll make sure not to post unless my complexion is a nice, pasty white and the remnants of a this mornings Cheetos breakfast are crusted in the corners of my mouth. But hey, do what you gotta do to maintain that sense of bravado that you get from talking to strangers on the computer.

Quote

Quotei love new members.

thanks for blessing us with your opinions.

See, this is the cool thing: the message board kind of works just like the music! How about that?!?! See, you can either take it or leave it, or try to be a smug prick about it. I appreciate the choice you have made. And while I may not have a ton of posts (really, is this that important? Does quantity really signal quality or the degree to which one is a fan?) Ive been listening to the band since 2001, so its not like Im just talking out of my ass.

I take a more nontraditional approach myself: I dont mind new members; I reserve my disdain for older members who believe their prolonged presence on an internet message board somehow equates to some sort of superiority. As far as I know in the terms of use this place is described as a place where people can talk about the band. I must have missed the part where it said only those who have pissed away countless hours behind their computers can talk about the band. I didnt know posting was the Red Badge of No Social Skills. In the future I'll make sure not to post unless my complexion is a nice, pasty white and the remnants of a this mornings Cheetos breakfast are crusted in the corners of my mouth. But hey, do what you gotta do to maintain that sense of bravado that you get from talking to strangers on the computer.

As rude as it was, that made me laugh.

Quote

Quote

Quotei love new members.

thanks for blessing us with your opinions.

See, this is the cool thing: the message board kind of works just like the music! How about that?!?! See, you can either take it or leave it, or try to be a smug prick about it. I appreciate the choice you have made. And while I may not have a ton of posts (really, is this that important? Does quantity really signal quality or the degree to which one is a fan?) Ive been listening to the band since 2001, so its not like Im just talking out of my ass.

I take a more nontraditional approach myself: I dont mind new members; I reserve my disdain for older members who believe their prolonged presence on an internet message board somehow equates to some sort of superiority. As far as I know in the terms of use this place is described as a place where people can talk about the band. I must have missed the part where it said only those who have pissed away countless hours behind their computers can talk about the band. I didnt know posting was the Red Badge of No Social Skills. In the future I'll make sure not to post unless my complexion is a nice, pasty white and the remnants of a this mornings Cheetos breakfast are crusted in the corners of my mouth. But hey, do what you gotta do to maintain that sense of bravado that you get from talking to strangers on the computer.

As rude as it was, that made me laugh.

Yeah, it was pretty rude, but it wasnt rude without cause. I take this novel approach some might have heard of; what I do is extend the same courtesy (or lack of) that I receive to those who extended it. Hasnt really steered me wrong yet.

Quote

Quotei love new members.

thanks for blessing us with your opinions.

See, this is the cool thing: the message board kind of works just like the music! How about that?!?! See, you can either take it or leave it, or try to be a smug prick about it. I appreciate the choice you have made. And while I may not have a ton of posts (really, is this that important? Does quantity really signal quality or the degree to which one is a fan?) Ive been listening to the band since 2001, so its not like Im just talking out of my ass.

I take a more nontraditional approach myself: I dont mind new members; I reserve my disdain for older members who believe their prolonged presence on an internet message board somehow equates to some sort of superiority. As far as I know in the terms of use this place is described as a place where people can talk about the band. I must have missed the part where it said only those who have pissed away countless hours behind their computers can talk about the band. I didnt know posting was the Red Badge of No Social Skills. In the future I'll make sure not to post unless my complexion is a nice, pasty white and the remnants of a this mornings Cheetos breakfast are crusted in the corners of my mouth. But hey, do what you gotta do to maintain that sense of bravado that you get from talking to strangers on the computer.

i will take the high road in order to set an example.

i apologize for directing my ire at you...after re-reading your original post i realize you weren't bashing the album, but offering solid points.  and again...sorry j_rud.  i'm just getting tired of new peeps getting on here and bashing the album (vedderhoon, Goat Boy...to name a few).  i'm fine if you express your opinion that you don't like the album, but don't keep bashing it over and over.  however, i realize you didn't do that so again..apologies sir.

please see my response above about it "getting it" as i in no way meant that as a pretentious statement.

and to clear up some factual inaccuracies...i had a blueberry bagel for breakfast, i am not pasty white, this is the only message board i post on (and i only post at work to kill down time), and i do not have a false sense of bravado because this is an internet message board. if you really have a problem with me i'll give you my phone number and address and we can hash it out, but in the end that is really just silly b/c as CC Baxter said, only some of this is real.

Quote

Quote

Quotei love new members.

thanks for blessing us with your opinions.

See, this is the cool thing: the message board kind of works just like the music! How about that?!?! See, you can either take it or leave it, or try to be a smug prick about it. I appreciate the choice you have made. And while I may not have a ton of posts (really, is this that important? Does quantity really signal quality or the degree to which one is a fan?) Ive been listening to the band since 2001, so its not like Im just talking out of my ass.

I take a more nontraditional approach myself: I dont mind new members; I reserve my disdain for older members who believe their prolonged presence on an internet message board somehow equates to some sort of superiority. As far as I know in the terms of use this place is described as a place where people can talk about the band. I must have missed the part where it said only those who have pissed away countless hours behind their computers can talk about the band. I didnt know posting was the Red Badge of No Social Skills. In the future I'll make sure not to post unless my complexion is a nice, pasty white and the remnants of a this mornings Cheetos breakfast are crusted in the corners of my mouth. But hey, do what you gotta do to maintain that sense of bravado that you get from talking to strangers on the computer.

i will take the high road in order to set an example.

i apologize for directing my ire at you...after re-reading your original post i realize you weren't bashing the album, but offering solid points.  and again...sorry j_rud.  i'm just getting tired of new peeps getting on here and bashing the album (vedderhoon, Goat Boy...to name a few).  i'm fine if you express your opinion that you don't like the album, but don't keep bashing it over and over.  however, i realize you didn't do that so again..apologies sir.

please see my response above about it "getting it" as i in no way meant that as a pretentious statement.

and to clear up some factual inaccuracies...i had a blueberry bagel for breakfast, i am not pasty white, this is the only message board i post on (and i only post at work to kill down time), and i do not have a false sense of bravado because this is an internet message board. if you really have a problem with me i'll give you my phone number and address and we can hash it out, but in the end that is really just silly b/c as CC Baxter said, only some of this is real.

Thats fine man, thanks for the apology. And while I wouldnt tell someone how to run their message board experience, it kind of helps to read the entire post before responding ;D. I love the new album, I just dont really give a shit if others dont. Like someone said earlier, people are taking this way too personal.

BTW, can you really take the high road if you launched the first salvo?

touche...i should have read it all, but in my line of work i get used to scanning things and it bit me in the a** this time!

i obviously didn't "get" you post... ;D

Quote

Quote

Quotei love new members.

thanks for blessing us with your opinions.

See, this is the cool thing: the message board kind of works just like the music! How about that?!?! See, you can either take it or leave it, or try to be a smug prick about it. I appreciate the choice you have made. And while I may not have a ton of posts (really, is this that important? Does quantity really signal quality or the degree to which one is a fan?) Ive been listening to the band since 2001, so its not like Im just talking out of my ass.

I take a more nontraditional approach myself: I dont mind new members; I reserve my disdain for older members who believe their prolonged presence on an internet message board somehow equates to some sort of superiority. As far as I know in the terms of use this place is described as a place where people can talk about the band. I must have missed the part where it said only those who have pissed away countless hours behind their computers can talk about the band. I didnt know posting was the Red Badge of No Social Skills. In the future I'll make sure not to post unless my complexion is a nice, pasty white and the remnants of a this mornings Cheetos breakfast are crusted in the corners of my mouth. But hey, do what you gotta do to maintain that sense of bravado that you get from talking to strangers on the computer.

i will take the high road in order to set an example.

i apologize for directing my ire at you...after re-reading your original post i realize you weren't bashing the album, but offering solid points.  and again...sorry j_rud.  i'm just getting tired of new peeps getting on here and bashing the album (vedderhoon, Goat Boy...to name a few).  i'm fine if you express your opinion that you don't like the album, but don't keep bashing it over and over.  however, i realize you didn't do that so again..apologies sir.

please see my response above about it "getting it" as i in no way meant that as a pretentious statement.

and to clear up some factual inaccuracies...i had a blueberry bagel for breakfast, i am not pasty white, this is the only message board i post on (and i only post at work to kill down time), and i do not have a false sense of bravado because this is an internet message board. if you really have a problem with me i'll give you my phone number and address and we can hash it out, but in the end that is really just silly b/c as CC Baxter said, only some of this is real.

Now THAT is how to behave on a message board...
(http://www.watchingtheoffice.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/Night_Out/PDVD_019.jpg)

QuoteBTW, can you really take the high road if you launched the first salvo?

very philosophical...but i guess i took an affront to your post and considered you were attacking me for the "getting" it post...so i thought you took the first salvo.

so that begs the question...who launched the first salvo?

but really...who cares?

we can be friends now.

QuoteI reserve my disdain for older members who believe their prolonged presence on an internet message board somehow equates to some sort of superiority.

This reminds me of being 18 and complaining about the legal drinking age being 21. Then once you are over 21, I don't care who you are, you poke fun/roll your eyes at the underage kids from time to time.  This is life and we spend a lot of time focusing on seniority, it just happens.

so i mean, i don't have a pie graph on this fact or anything, but in the last couple of months, there's been a huge amount of new members (good thing) and about 50% of them have been so cruel without provocation (bad thing). therefore, older members are defensive lately.

sorry to the new members who are actually kind and present their arguments constructively. you guys are doing good thangs.

Quote

QuoteI reserve my disdain for older members who believe their prolonged presence on an internet message board somehow equates to some sort of superiority.

This reminds me of being 18 and complaining about the legal drinking age being 21. Then once you are over 18, I don't care who you are, you poke fun/roll your eyes at the underage kids from time to time.  This is life and we spend a lot of time focusing on seniority, it just happens.

so i mean, i don't have a pie graph on this fact or anything, but in the last couple of months, there's been a huge amount of new members (good thing) and about 50% of them have been so cruel without provocation (bad thing). therefore, older members are defensive lately.

sorry to the new members who are actually kind and present their arguments constructively. you guys are doing good thangs.

excellent analogy!

again..sorry to new members that are awesome...we welcome and appreciate you!  :-*

I don't know if it's just me, but I don't see this whole, new direction in music thing with this new album.

Evil Urges, to me at least, is a perfect mix of TTF - ISM, and the Z era. I don't really hear all that much on this album that we haven't heard before.

Songs like Librarian are more acoustic, laid back stuff from their earlier years, and songs like Evil Urges, and even Highly Suspicious have more of a feel of Z.

I don't know, maybe it's just me. But this album is still the good old MMJ I know simply making fucking music.

Quote
I reserve my disdain for older members who believe their prolonged presence on an internet message board somehow equates to some sort of superiority. As far as I know in the terms of use this place is described as a place where people can talk about the band. I must have missed the part where it said only those who have pissed away countless hours behind their computers can talk about the band. I didnt know posting was the Red Badge of No Social Skills. In the future I'll make sure not to post unless my complexion is a nice, pasty white and the remnants of a this mornings Cheetos breakfast are crusted in the corners of my mouth. But hey, do what you gotta do to maintain that sense of bravado that you get from talking to strangers on the computer.

When you say bravado, do you mean the type of bravado you just used or is it a different type of bravado? Calling us old timers out with such silly things as above is about the same as what you accuse us of, isn't it?  :-/   Maybe you didn't mean to use the word bravado?

just trying to understand, thanks.

J rod even if you got this band you still wouldn't fucking "get it". got it? great. n00b.

Quote

Quote
I reserve my disdain for older members who believe their prolonged presence on an internet message board somehow equates to some sort of superiority. As far as I know in the terms of use this place is described as a place where people can talk about the band. I must have missed the part where it said only those who have pissed away countless hours behind their computers can talk about the band. I didnt know posting was the Red Badge of No Social Skills. In the future I'll make sure not to post unless my complexion is a nice, pasty white and the remnants of a this mornings Cheetos breakfast are crusted in the corners of my mouth. But hey, do what you gotta do to maintain that sense of bravado that you get from talking to strangers on the computer.

When you say bravado, do you mean the type of bravado you just used or is it a different type of bravado? Calling us old timers out with such silly things as above is about the same as what you accuse us of, isn't it?  :-/   Maybe you didn't mean to use the word bravado?

just trying to understand, thanks.

You can call it whatever you would like, I was just responding with the same sentiment I was greeted with, thats all.

QuoteJ rod even if you got this band you still wouldn't fucking "get it". got it? great. n00b.

Did you really just say "noob"? I wasnt even sure people actually used that word. I was under the impression that its waaaaaay too lame for use in the everyday vernacular. Anyway...

Like I said, I might be new to this board but Ive been following this band since 2001. Exactly how you can surmise exactly what I "get" from reading (or not really reading, judging by your response) a single post on a message board? I dont know exactly what you think "getting it" is, or what I said that has you so incensed, but rest assured that I am amused.

Did you even read my original post? I didnt call anyone out or insult anyone. Read the original post. Its simply a reaction to an observation that Ive made here: any knocks on the new album are being met with claims that the person "doesnt get it". All I said was that this might not be the case. Maybe people just dont care for it. And thats OK too. Im sure the band would tell you that themselves. I also went on to say that I love the new album. So Im not really sure exactly what your problem is.  For someone named "bluntman" you sure are uptight.

I will say this, though: the rampant negativity and rudeness that greats any opinion that deviates from the norm or that can be called "criticism" really does a disservice to the band. Im pretty sure that wasnt the idea that got this board online.

QuoteJ rod even if you got this band you still wouldn't fucking "get it". got it? great. n00b.

Ohhh sweet irony!!!!! So I was just curious as to how long one must be a member here to start throwing the word "n00b" around (notice I used zeros instead of O's this time? Fiesty, eh?), so I took a look at your profile. Youve been a member here 51 days. I registered for this board 500-some days ago. Just because I like to read and dont post much doesnt make me a "n00b". Next time do a little research before you insult people you ignorant asshole.

(http://www.teamrt.com/images/TN11456_birleanu.jpg)

Quote

QuoteJ rod even if you got this band you still wouldn't fucking "get it". got it? great. n00b.

Did you really just say "noob"? I wasnt even sure people actually used that word. I was under the impression that its waaaaaay too lame for use in the everyday vernacular. Anyway...

Like I said, I might be new to this board but Ive been following this band since 2001. Exactly how you can surmise exactly what I "get" from reading (or not really reading, judging by your response) a single post on a message board? I dont know exactly what you think "getting it" is, or what I said that has you so incensed, but rest assured that I am amused.

Did you even read my original post? I didnt call anyone out or insult anyone. Read the original post. Its simply a reaction to an observation that Ive made here: any knocks on the new album are being met with claims that the person "doesnt get it". All I said was that this might not be the case. Maybe people just dont care for it. And thats OK too. Im sure the band would tell you that themselves. I also went on to say that I love the new album. So Im not really sure exactly what your problem is.  For someone named "bluntman" you sure are uptight.

I will say this, though: the rampant negativity and rudeness that greats any opinion that deviates from the norm or that can be called "criticism" really does a disservice to the band. Im pretty sure that wasnt the idea that got this board online.

hahahahahghaghaghahhahagoaioahrohao'uhagjajhagh~!~~~!!!!

Quote

QuoteJ rod even if you got this band you still wouldn't fucking "get it". got it? great. n00b.

Ohhh sweet irony!!!!! So I was just curious as to how long one must be a member here to start throwing the word "n00b" around (notice I used zeros instead of O's this time? Fiesty, eh?), so I took a look at your profile. Youve been a member here 51 days. I registered for this board 500-some days ago. Just because I like to read and dont post much doesnt make me a "n00b". Next time do a little research before you insult people you ignorant asshole.

shit son, I've been calling out n00bs on this board since I was 1 day old.  my keen eye can spot them from 1000s of miles away.  you definitely are one by your lack of knowledge of who I, THE BluntMASTER, is.  I mean i can see not knowing fucking tommy two-tones last name, but I'm fucking bluntmaster.  bow to me.

Thanks for responding bluntmaster, at least now I can get a better picture. Im not sure if its Down Syndrome, Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, or good ol' fashioned profound retardation, but at least now I recognize that bickering with you is about as useful as having teeth in my asshole. Good day, Sir!

Ok, so, on that note, would anyone like some pizza??? Pizza anyone? TWO BOOTS ...next week?

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2171/2160708688_471c238c96.jpg)

QuoteThanks for responding bluntmaster, at least now I can get a better picture. Im not sure if its Down Syndrome, Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, or good ol' fashioned profound retardation, but at least now I recognize that bickering with you is about as useful as having teeth in my asshole. Good day, Sir!

I was just messing with ya baby cakes relax

Quote


i apologize for directing my ire at you...after re-reading your original post i realize you weren't bashing the album, but offering solid points.  and again...sorry j_rud.  i'm just getting tired of new peeps getting on here and bashing the album (vedderhoon, Goat Boy...to name a few).  i'm fine if you express your opinion that you don't like the album, but don't keep bashing it over and over.  

Eh?  Bashing the album?  The only thing of any note I've said about Evil Urges was this - posted on the Evil Urges discussion thread -

QuoteWell I downloaded the album when it leaked (my copy arrived monday) so I've had enough time to digest it properly. There's a couple of songs that do little for me. The production bothers me a bit as well on certain tracks - Remnants for example sounds very 'dry'. However I dig the title track - MMJ meets Curtis - and the soft bellbottom rock of Sec' Walkin' and Thank You Too floats my boat as well though I can see why some would have problems with them.

This feels like a transitional album to me as others have noted. It doesn't quite hang together like previous records and deffo not as smoothly as Z and consequently the album works better if you focus on individual tracks. However just as the album seems to get going it stumbles a bit. Two Halves and the clunky Aluminum Park (should never have been sequenced next to Remnants) are the main offenders for me.

I could write a lot more and may come back to this when I get some time at work.

So, I say there's a couple of songs that don't do it for me (Two Halves, Aluminum Park and Highly Suspicious actually) so conversely, most of the songs actual DO something for me.  I mention that I dig the title track and the '70's soft rock' tracks that some don't like - Thank You Too and Sec Walkin float my boat.  And that's it basically.  Apparently that's 'bashing' the album?  No it ain't.  If I wanted to really 'bash' the album the tone and content would be a lot different.  Perhaps similar to my Pink Floyd posts.

And that is all I've said.  So 'bashing it over and over' is simply not true.  Might I suggest that you, like others round these parts, are waaay too sensitive when it comes to people - especially 'newbies' - criticising the music.  

Personally I'm tired of older members taking such personal offence at the opinions of others who happen to have a negative or less than complimentary slant and ESPECIALLY if - heaven forbid - they are the dreaded 'newbies'.  There is an obvious undercurrent of snobbery regarding this issue from certain posters who want the board to run according to their rules.  This includes no 'negative' posting or any criticism of the music at all and definitely not from those cheeky newbies who have the NERVE to join a fan forum and post something that doesn't amount to uncritical fanboy praise as a first post.   I mean look at this statement posted on a different thread -

QuoteIf you know the Jacket, I mean really know them and love their music, I don't understand how you don't "get" this album.

Now, what does that statement amount to?  This - if you are a 'true' fan, a proper one LIKE ME, then you will 'get' this album (implying there is something mysterious to actually 'get') however if you DON'T like this record then I'm sorry but you don't really know the band or love their music i.e. you aren't really a fan.  The poster did, to be fair, reply to a criticism of that post in a decent manner but then he goes and fucks it up again by posting this -

QuoteThe reality is, this is My Morning Jacket; They love it, I love it, you don't. They get it, I get it, you don't.

See?  MMJ love it!  So does the poster!  So if you DON'T love it and don't GET IT like the band do and the poster does then, you know?  I mean what does that imply exactly?  I'll leave you to make your own mind up.  

The same poster then posts this pearl -

QuoteAnd that it pisses people off that I like this music. How insecure do you have to be about yourself that it pisses you off that someone really likes a song that you don't like?

To which I ask - how insecure do you have to be when it pisses you off that somebody DOESN'T like a song or record YOU like?  Somebody who then decides to post on this forum (apparently this belongs to the band not the fans) that they don't like it?  I could post examples of this knee jerk sensitivity.

So, I'm sure you can see why your seemingly ambiguous statement (I really don't think it was that ambiguous actually but hey ho) about not 'getting' it in the context of this board isn't so ambiguous at all really.  Especially not when you then post this sarcy comment-

QuoteI love new members.

thanks for blessing us with your opinions.

Which, might I suggest, removed some of the 'ambiguity' you see present in the above statement?  It was a dismissal of any opinion that doesn't come from one of the more senior members of the board which ties in with what other posters, like the one I quoted above, have been posting.  Especially when you even admitted you didn't read the post properly the first time before replying.  Like I said - knee jerk sensitivity.

goatboy, it's obvious I bother you, and I am backing off from "implying" things around here and returning to good old fun. ( I do not retract my statement that I don't understand how a real MMJ fan doesn't "get" EU; and that's not a jab at anyone, just a statement, I'd challenge you not to read anything into that).
I am sorry if I have made you uncomfortable, but you come here to stir up shit, and you do, and then act all innocent when people reply. Trust me, your game isn't new and it's sort of fun to go back and forth, knowing the whole time there is absolutely nothing either of us will say that will change each others' minds. It's obvious you like the confrontation, and for the most part, you're good at it. I also read where you blasted someone for having musical snobbery when you proclaimed yourself earlier to be a musical snob. So be it, it is all meaningless, pretty much. Plus, you just go 'round and 'round and 'round and 'round and 'round..... zzzzzzzzz   And, it sort of flatters me you respond to my posts in such detail.  ;)

So, not everyone can get along, but I am trying. Hell, I was even critical of a MMJ song, just for you guys who feel you have to be critical of music :
http://www.mymorningjacket.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1213274143

hope you have fun around here and please don't take things personally, it's just the internet.

cheers

tally ho

Goatboy,

I'm still waiting for an explanation of this quote from you:

"However I dig the title track - MMJ meets Curtis..."

Moving on...

Let me explain to you where I was coming from with regards to my "sarcy" comment regarding new members.  Just because I have more posts or have been a member longer than someone else doesn't entitle me to anything.  However, it is VERY frustrating and annoying when people are joining the message board or making their first post about how much they dislike the album.  I joined this message board because I love this band and love talking about this band.  There are certain bands that I have much disdain for, but I would NEVER join their message board and start insulting their fans and their work product.  I know people will say this is different because they loved At Dawn, TN Fire, ISM and Z.  Its not different...people are still coming on here just to critique the album.  I could care less if you like anything off Evil Urges...I don't even know your name!  So I'm not "insecure" regarding my musical tastes...I just don't like the fact that people are coming on here out of the blue to bash the album.

We respect everyone's opinions here, but respect is earned.  Its not just given to you because you sign up for the message board and start trashing the album.  A lot of people on here have "earned the stripes" so to say by posting setlists, photos, live recordings, trading shows with each other, meeting outside of this message board, posting inside information about recording techniques and equipment, and creating MMJ tab sites.  This doesn't make these people superior message board members, but it does garner a little respect.  For all we know the new members posting on this board have never even heard the TN Fire or gems like "Tyrone" or "Come Closer."

This is where our "knee jerk sensitivity" comes from.

You can interpret my use of the words "get it" anyway you want, but I have already explained what I meant by it.  I had an emotional connection with the album, others didn't.

Finally, please be a positive force on this board and as Tracy has said stop stirring shit up just for confrontation.

to make multiple At Dawn like albums would get old real quick and would not allow the band to explore different musical ideas as well as their career would be short..........now don't get me wrong I like their older albums a great deal but the new direction is intriguing to me as a fan.  I really like Evil Urges.  It is a perfect blend of styles that fits together in an interesting ever changing listen for this fan.....bands don't break apart fan bases.........spoiled complacent fans cause this division........if you really like a band you accept and enjoy every album in a different way.........you can have your favorites among the group but to turn your back on a band due to branching out artistically?.........you were never a real fan anyway.........go back to Fall Out Boy I guess.........

Maybe some people just weren't prepared to get rocked.... rocked hard.

just take what you need and leave the rest   ;) :-*

Quotejust take what you need and leave the rest   ;) :-*

but they should have never taken the very best!  ;)

QuoteThis thread is starting to give me a headache.  "Be nice or else" means be nice or else!   :-/

so, what you're saying is, be nice or else? Just want to make sure I understand you.

thing is there really is not a newbee on message boards just because you joined a band site after others...........that does not mean you were not a fan or a very educated person on their music before the others..........you just did not sign up to the message board until later...........over my years on various message boards I have seen the same thing.............for the most part people would not be here if they did not like the band.........the ones that are trolls weed themselves out real quick.........

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f296/ycartrob/TN11456_birleanu.jpg)

QuoteThis thread is starting to give me a headache.  "Be nice or else" means be nice or else!   :-/

this mod releases so much n00bness I can barely stand it in this thread anymore.  blah, I want to barf

Quotegoatboy, it's obvious I bother you,

YOU don't bother me. But your general elitist attitude on this website is not something I go along with.   Again...

QuoteI do not retract my statement that I don't understand how a real MMJ fan doesn't "get" EU; and that's not a jab at anyone, just a statement, I'd challenge you not to read anything into that).

Challenge me?  How can you post a statement like that and NOT expect somebody to challenge you on it?

Look, Tracy you don't need to 'get it'.  It's not about getting the album.  I get the album.  I understand what they are trying to do and I recognise the influences.  Its like people saying how they don't understand how some people don't 'get' Highly Suspicious.  I get it.  I get that it's a sub Prince/Cameo homage complete with coquettish laughs that deliberately mimic the Purple one.  I know exactly where it's coming from and what they are trying to do.  I just don't think it's that good.  No biggie.  Live it will sound better but on record it doesn't work for me.  And please stop using the phrase 'real fan'. If you want to sound like an elitist MMJ snob then carry on using that terminology.  It offends people who would consider themselves 'real fans'.  Just think how it looks to an outsider?  A poster on a MMJ messageboard questioning whether other people on the same board are 'real' fans!   It's fanboyism taken to its logical conclusion.  I've even noticed that some new posters who are critiquing certain elements of the album are being very sensitive about it, going on and on that it is just their opinion etc.  It shouldn't be like that.

QuoteI am sorry if I have made you uncomfortable, but you come here to stir up shit, and you do, and then act all innocent when people reply

Don't be daft man. My irritable bowel syndrome makes me feel uncomfortable. And how! The only reason I seem to stir up shit is because I have labeled things poor or shit cos I simply don't rate them. Witness the recent Honest Man thread where I said that the album was 'wonderful' but that song was 'shit'. Labeling one song shit was the crime. I explained myself why I think it's crap but still some people couldn't accept this. Might I suggest that by merely providing any negative criticism the poster is going to be perceived as 'stirring shit up' by certain members?  It's the nature of the board I'm afraid that posts like mine will be interpreted as stirring shit up cos it goes against the grain here.  This is not intentional.  

QuoteIt's obvious you like the confrontation, and for the most part, you're good at it. I also read where you blasted someone for having musical snobbery when you proclaimed yourself earlier to be a musical snob. So be it, it is all meaningless, pretty much. Plus, you just go 'round and 'round and 'round and 'round and 'round..... zzzzzzzzz And, it sort of flatters me you respond to my posts in such detail

Ok I admit it. That 'drifter' with the beard accompanied by the pungent whiff of stale dog piss you caught rooting through your garbage the other day was me. I Am Your Stalker. Cheers for the backhanded compliment. The difference is I didn't pretend I wasn't a snob to a degree. I never denied it. I blasted the poster because they were attacking me for being a snob despite posting some incredibly snobbish shite about not liking it when a band becomes popular and all kinds of undesirables start liking said band. I was attacking their hypocrisy and the contradiction inherent in his statement.  It may seem that I attack you or single you out for this shit but personally I feel you are the most vocal regarding this matter and probably the most influential on certain other posters who tend to fall into line behind you.

Quotejust for you guys who feel you have to be critical of music :

I don't feel that I have to be critical. I'm just wired that way. However I don't see the point of merely parroting other peoples stock replies and responses (EU RAWKS, it's awesome etc). You have to bring something new to the table. If I praise something I praise it and if I slag something off I will always try and expand on why if given the chance. I think I've been consistent in that respect. I said Honest Man was shit and I explained why I think that. Briefly.

I don't take this personally. It's a messageboard but might I suggest that you don't take criticism of the band so personally yourself?  It does you, or others, no favours.  Dragon Boys post on the silly and defensive 'EU Rocks: roll call' thread says it all really.  I'm not the only one who thinks this.  Perhaps I'm just the most vocal.  I appreciate this bit though...

Quoteand I am backing off from "implying" things around here and returning to good old fun.

And for the record just so this is clear I LIKE Evil Urges quite a bit.  However I feel that a handful of songs aren't up to scratch and a focus on production, sounds and rhythms has perhaps weakened two of the bands main strengths - the songwriting and The Voice of Jim James.  That is all.  I will still be there with bells and whistles on hoping they RAWK my puny little mind in Amsterdam.  I cannot wait.  Mind how you go.....

QuoteGoatboy,

I'm still waiting for an explanation of this quote from you:

"However I dig the title track - MMJ meets Curtis..."

It was a reference to Curtis Mayfield and his debut solo album Curtis.  Somebody else explained it that's why I didn't respond.  Apologies.

QuoteThere are certain bands that I have much disdain for, but I would NEVER join their message board and start insulting their fans and their work product.

Do you know what disdain actually means?  These people who post their negative comments DO NOT have disdain for the band at all.  They like the band and are fans.  They do not have contempt for MMJ.  Do you really think that? I know various posters have expressed their feelings and criticisms in clumsy ways, this is true.  Sometimes I wonder if these people ever went to school when I see the grammar and spelling on display.  The point is however that although this criticism is often expressed gauchely it is no less clumsy imo then the majority of posts on here - be they positive or negative and it doesn't deserve to be crapped on continually.  Even posts that criticise certain elements of Evil Urges in a balanced and well-written way have been targets for certain people who see this criticism as unnecessary and not what this board is about.  At the same time people are of course free to post fucking shite like 'cobra makes me feel sexy in the shower' or numerous 'MMJ rawks, EU rawks etc' threads without the boards senior members passing comment on the inanity.

If you want another example of your knee jerk sensitivity then -

Quoteonto another subject...you have already conveyed your displeasure in the album many times. that's enough...just let it go and let the rest of us bask in the album that we really enjoy

Absolute nonsense.  I have (briefly)posted twice about it - once in the Evil Urges discussion thread that I quoted in a previous post and once when I praised the 'peddle steel loveliness' of Look At You.  Search my posts and quote these 'many posts' please where I am slagging and bashing Evil Urges.  Go on.  Post them.  I'm waiting.  I expect at least 4 or 5.  Hell you even attacked the poster on this thread despite admitting you didn't even read his post properly!  You saw something negative and you jumped on it without even reading the post properly.  However after re-reading it you even admit the poster made some good points and they weren't really bashing the album at all.  What does that tell you huh?  You can try and explain your 'knee jerk sensitivity' and the reasons for that (I appreciate that) but it still doesn't stop all this sensitivity looking a bit silly and ott especially when you have clearly and blatantly exhibited this sensitivity on this very thread yourself and for NO reason at all.  Dragonboy summed it up nicely in the 'EU ROCKS: roll call' thread.

QuoteFor all we know the new members posting on this board have never even heard the TN Fire or gems like "Tyrone" or "Come Closer."

::)  So what?  Again, this reeks of an elitist approach to this board.  I wasn't aware that before you post you had to own or are least here every single thing the bands done.  I haven't heard Tyrone.  Where does that leave me then eh?  

QuoteYou can interpret my use of the words "get it" anyway you want, but I have already explained what I meant by it. I had an emotional connection with the album, others didn't.

I don't think it's about 'emotional connections' for a lot of people.  I think the fans that don't rate or like parts of this album (me included) have a problem with the music and lyrics and the quality within rather than not connecting to the themes or messages in the songs but thanks for explaining yourself and I appreciate it.

Goatboy, you said:

"I don't think it's about 'emotional connections' for a lot of people.  I think the fans that don't rate or like parts of this album (me included) have a problem with the music and lyrics and the quality within rather than not connecting to the themes or messages in the songs but thanks for explaining yourself and I appreciate it."

The other stuff we are arguing about is pointless, but I think you commentary above is spot on.  I think you have nailed the common criticism of this album.  For example, most people feel the album is too "poppy" or the lyrics are too literal.  I would agree that Jim has written catchier "pop" songs/hooks and that some of his lyrics on this album are quite obvious.  However, I believe we have to examine the context in which these songs were written to undertand them a little better.

Jim has stated in several interviews that the majority of these songs were written when he was falling in love with someone.  I think that if you keep that in mind while listening to the album it makes some of the songs make sense.  Yes, some of the songs and lyrics are quite simple, but don't you remember how you felt when you first fell in love.  You were so naive and everything in your little world seemed right.  That seems like where Jim is coming from with songs like "Thank You Too" and "Look At You" and then some of the more literal lyrics in other songs.  I think most of the songs on the album give off that "I'm in so love" vibe.  Just my thoughts...

Anyway...this makes me appreciate the album for what it is.
And that sentence in no way is meant presume that you or anyone else does not "appreciate" the album!

Also...I know what "disdain" means and some of the "trolls" coming on the board are trashing MMJ as a band, and in my book I consider that "disdain."

Goatboy...I've come to respect your insightful critiques even if you refer to something as "shit."

Quote

The other stuff we are arguing about is pointless, but I think you commentary above is spot on.  I think you have nailed the common criticism of this album.  For example, most people feel the album is too "poppy" or the lyrics are too literal.  I would agree that Jim has written catchier "pop" songs/hooks and that some of his lyrics on this album are quite obvious.  However, I believe we have to examine the context in which these songs were written to undertand them a little better.

What pissed me off about the whole 'getting it' thing was that people (not you admittedly, sorry for tarring you with that particular brush) were suggesting that the reason why many aren't liking the record as much or have problems with it was some bizarre, undefined idea that there was something mysterious to actually 'get' that others were missing. Yes, some of the lyrics are weak but weak lyrics rarely bother me THAT much (unless they are dead poor) however musically the emphasis has switched slightly from Z to Evil Urges. This is why some people aren't quite digging it as much. That and the eclectic nature of the record means that it perhaps doesn't hang together like an album really should and especially compared to Z it suffers in that respect.

I guess I would consider Z a songwriting record and Evil Urges a production record. Obviously that's a simplistic description but Z seemed part of an ongoing refinement of Jim James songwriting that blossomed on that album. With the exception of the epic Dondante, and the coda of Off The Record it was tight, rigorously structured, sequenced perfectly with less of the extended instrumental flourishes i.e. 'jammin' that characterised It Still Moves (Dancefloors, Mahgeeta).  It was designed for maximum impact and it worked.

With Evil Urges the emphasis is more on sounds and rhythm rather than songwriting and The Voice. Understandably this will disappoint some fans as both are the bands unique strengths. Jim James voice especially is a remarkable instrument, which seemingly possesses its own inbuilt echo chamber and is capable of both delicate smoke ring melodies and intense guttural roars and screams.  The word that always springs to my mind whenever I hear or think about his voice is 'ethereal'. To then mask this instrument with effects and Prince esque falsettos would seem unnecessarily contrary for some I guess.  Like a prize-fighter not using his killer left hook but instead using body punches.

Touch Me part 1 for example, at first, seems fairly melodically slight. The rhythm section is the hook rather than the melody. Obviously it's similar to It Beats For You – a close cousin - but Touch Me part 1 is an rhythmic extension that trades melodic finesse for rhythmic instead. That is before the coda bursts into technicolor life.

QuoteJim has stated in several interviews that the majority of these songs were written when he was falling in love with someone. I think that if you keep that in mind while listening to the album it makes some of the songs make sense. Yes, some of the songs and lyrics are quite simple, but don't you remember how you felt when you first fell in love. You were so naive and everything in your little world seemed right. That seems like where Jim is coming from with songs like "Thank You Too" and "Look At You" and then some of the more literal lyrics in other songs. I think most of the songs on the album give off that "I'm in so love" vibe. Just my thoughts...

That might explain the soppiness that is visible on Thank You Too for example. After I broke up with my gf for good I left her flat in tears and played this. The line about being 'worlds apart' kicked me right in the fucking guts.  I love the song by the way.  The soppiness seems kinda appropriate.  

The thing with Jim James is that he seems like an old fashioned soul. His lyrics occasionally possess an un-cynical wide-eyed naivety that is sort of out-of-sync with the modern day world and its cynicism. Two Halves and Librarian are both products of this. In response I think it's perhaps necessary for the more cynical amongst us (me especially) to suspend your disbelief somewhat when confronted with such sentiments in order to appreciate the place where they come from. A similar thing happens with Brian Wilson. A Day In The Life Of A Tree for example possesses an adult child lyrical innocence and sentiments that one either bursts out laughing or finds it profoundly moving. I find the later to be the case. Perhaps that's why Librarians lyrics don't bother me as much as some. I mean I can see why certain lines are weak and have non sequiturs but the overall ambience of the performance and the arrangement make up for it.

I appreciate reading your thoughts. It makes a change that somebody actually answers my posts with a personal insight that illuminates rather than posting images of internet trolls.

Quote
Also...I know what "disdain" means and some of the "trolls" coming on the board are trashing MMJ as a band, and in my book I consider that "disdain."

I don't think they have contempt personally but agree to disagree.  They just sound pissed off.