My Girlfriend treated myself, my daughter visiting from the UK, and her boyfriend, to tickets to the Rialto last night. I can't say I am a big fan, but have enjoyed some of the older material my girlfriend has played me. I wanted to like the show so much, but in the end we had to leave before the end as it was about all we could stand. I have been in the touring biz for 35 years, was myself an audio engineer for several years, and have been a production manager for many years with some of the world's top artists. My GF is also in the biz, my daughter is a singer/songwriter, and her boyfriend is an audio engineer himself. The sound quality in the Rialto was dreadful. We were stood at the back of the standing area but not under the balcony, so should have had the best of possible sounds there. Everything was muddy and indistinct, instruments far too loud a lot of the time, vocal almost indistinguishable from the morass of volume, and the whole utterly lacking in any dynamic. Perhaps the band were having a bad night, the singer certainly sounded as if he was struggling to hit any high notes, and I am well aware of the inability to "polish a turd" by any audio engineer presented with poor source material to work with, but this was inexcusible. We had to leave well before the end, and I did think of asking for my money back, but then realised it was not my money, and the biz needs all the financial input it can get right now, if for no other reason than to be able to afford decent audio engineers. Must do better chaps...
sweet 1st post
I don't understand people that never post on a band's message board until that have something negative to say.
Your review stinks, and I don't like it.
Just telling it like I saw it, and I don't care if you don't like it. The truth often hurts. I just hope someone learns something from this.
Hi rockerc. Expect a lot of shit thrown back your way - folks here tend to be pretty defensive of the band.
If I were you, I'd email a copy of your post to the band's management. If you can think of ways to improve the live sound, bring it up with the people who can do something about it.
Which of the older songs and albums did you enjoy? I also was wondering which bands you've worked with over the years?
It's too bad you didn't enjoy yourself last night, though (with your background) I'm sure you were far more critical than most of the people that were there. While the sound wasn't perfect, I was in heaven last Friday at the Greek Theatre in Berkeley.
My advice to you is to enjoy the band in whatever way you can, with your (undoubtedly) hypercritical ears, because they really are a special group.
QuoteMy Girlfriend treated myself, my daughter visiting from the UK, and her boyfriend, to tickets to the Rialto last night. I can't say I am a big fan, but have enjoyed some of the older material my girlfriend has played me. I wanted to like the show so much, but in the end we had to leave before the end as it was about all we could stand. I have been in the touring biz for 35 years, was myself an audio engineer for several years, and have been a production manager for many years with some of the world's top artists. My GF is also in the biz, my daughter is a singer/songwriter, and her boyfriend is an audio engineer himself. The sound quality in the Rialto was dreadful. We were stood at the back of the standing area but not under the balcony, so should have had the best of possible sounds there. Everything was muddy and indistinct, instruments far too loud a lot of the time, vocal almost indistinguishable from the morass of volume, and the whole utterly lacking in any dynamic. Perhaps the band were having a bad night, the singer certainly sounded as if he was struggling to hit any high notes, and I am well aware of the inability to "polish a turd" by any audio engineer presented with poor source material to work with, but this was inexcusible. We had to leave well before the end, and I did think of asking for my money back, but then realised it was not my money, and the biz needs all the financial input it can get right now, if for no other reason than to be able to afford decent audio engineers. Must do better chaps...
Hey, everybody!! Let me introduce you to the new guy:
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s41/noxiousfix/0363.jpg)
Hi Bill, thanks for not slagging me outright! I do understand that shit will come my way, but I have developed a healthy ability to disregard the bigotry inherent in being a blind fan of anything, but I suspect there are a lot more intelligent people reading this who are fans of the band and are able to assume a little criticism. Like I said, I really wanted to like this show, as I have enjoyed earlier recordings. I couldn't tell you song and album names as my GF plays it on her ipod for me. I just like the dynamic and sound of the band, they are definitely an oasis of good music in a world of crap. That is why I was so disappointed last night. Tucson has little enough music of an international standard to enjoy anyway. As for emailing criticism to management, I am sure they have people reading these posts, I know most every band checks their fan forums. I just finished with Prince after some time with him, and he scours all his forums for criticism, and takes fan posts very seriously. As for my being hypercritical, of course I am, that is part of my job, and I will always strive to produce the best possible show. I do not think it is a bad thing.
QuoteI just finished with Prince...
Were you a part of his recent residency at the O2 Arena in London? If so, I'm sure that must've been a special run to be a part of...
Yeah, did all 21 shows there. Had to switch out the sound system after 3 shows because of my hypercritical ears :)
Rockerc, I appreciate your honesty. You came in and said something negative about the band and I'm sure someone will tell you that this isn't the place to do do that. But I feel differently. I think if you can do it politely and give your reasons than you are more than welcome to share your OPINIONS on a PUBLIC message board. Why anyone would think differently sometimes confuses me.
I empathize with your situation. I have training and a little experience in audio engineering. I've been going to concerts regularly for the last 8 years. I know the difference between good sound and bad sound. I also know that for me, bad sound can ruin the show. There's nothing worse than paying hard earned money on a ticket, only to be disappointed.
So thank you and welcome to the board. I hope you stick around and I hope the oncoming wave of bullshit you'll hear because of this doesn't last too long.
I also hope this thread doesn't mysteriously disappear at some point.
You're in the "biz"? :P
Well Sir I was right behind you and they did seem to have a few problems but not enough to leave before the end of a great show.Tucson was very reseptive to the band.They were quite during the slow songs and elated for the whole show.And I do mean show ,light show, the Jim show ,the Carl show ,the Patrick drum show.We are very blessed that they choose to come to Tucson after Las Vegas cancelled.We were at the Phx. show also and they blew the doors off the Marquee.Rialto was alittle more laid back.More older songs.I sure hope someone will post the setlist as I can't remember the whole thing.Thank you MMJ for thinken of us here in Tucson and please come back to the last frontier soon.
odatat, check the other Tuscon thread for the setlist
I understand and appreciate the criticism. My best bud is an engineer in LA and would understand everything you are talking about. I look forward to his input on the open air show in sd soon.
I hope you have a better time at your next show.
Thanks for the honesty "getinthevan", and nice avatar by the way. I did a few tours with Pantera in their heyday, it was a sad day when that lunatic took it upon himself to end their day.
QuoteThanks for the honesty "getinthevan", and nice avatar by the way. I did a few tours with Pantera in their heyday, it was a sad day when that lunatic took it upon himself to end their day.
They were already over at that point... Phil would never have performed with them again unfortunately.
QuoteQuoteThanks for the honesty "getinthevan", and nice avatar by the way. I did a few tours with Pantera in their heyday, it was a sad day when that lunatic took it upon himself to end their day.
They were already over at that point... Phil would never have performed with them again unfortunately.
Unfortunately they were done at that point. I still hung on to some glimmer of hope that maybe someday they would get back together but the well documented public shit slinging made me realize that it would never happen.
Which tours did you do with Pantera and for that matter, what'd they have you doing?
QuoteMy Girlfriend treated myself, my daughter visiting from the UK, and her boyfriend, to tickets to the Rialto last night. I can't say I am a big fan, but have enjoyed some of the older material my girlfriend has played me. I wanted to like the show so much, but in the end we had to leave before the end as it was about all we could stand. I have been in the touring biz for 35 years, was myself an audio engineer for several years, and have been a production manager for many years with some of the world's top artists. My GF is also in the biz, my daughter is a singer/songwriter, and her boyfriend is an audio engineer himself. The sound quality in the Rialto was dreadful. We were stood at the back of the standing area but not under the balcony, so should have had the best of possible sounds there. Everything was muddy and indistinct, instruments far too loud a lot of the time, vocal almost indistinguishable from the morass of volume, and the whole utterly lacking in any dynamic. Perhaps the band were having a bad night, the singer certainly sounded as if he was struggling to hit any high notes, and I am well aware of the inability to "polish a turd" by any audio engineer presented with poor source material to work with, but this was inexcusible. We had to leave well before the end, and I did think of asking for my money back, but then realised it was not my money, and the biz needs all the financial input it can get right now, if for no other reason than to be able to afford decent audio engineers. Must do better chaps...
*Bites tongue, bites tongue, bites tongue* :-X
Welcome(ass). I don't believe I would EVER go on a band's forum whose show I was so amazingly disappointed by just to criticize them. Get over yourself. Opinions are certainly welcome, but I guess I just do not see the need for things like this.
Jeez! You tell me to get over myself? Just the kind of bigotry I was talking about. I have an honest opinion and you guys are slagging me for it? What happened to the spirit of honesty and integrity? If mankind is as narrow-minded as some of you obviously are I am disappointed indeed. Get a life.
By the way getinthevan, I was production manager for Skid Row when Pantera opened for them, around '92/'93 I guess, then I did some of the Vulgar Display world tour, then Far Beyond Driven world tour, and more recently the Reinventing the Steel tour, all as production manager. I count the band and crew members as good friends, it was a tragic loss to lose Dime and the others, and I too held out a hope for a reunion prior to the shooting.
Weird: I'm reading this thread while listening to MMJ doing I Could Never Take The Place of Your Man, then I get to the part where subby was working for Prince. OK, not so weird, whatevs. Welcome, and welcome to your opinion rockerc - I've certainly been to shows where terrible sound quality had ruined it for me too, luckily, none of those were MMJ shows. I'll have to object to the "poor source material" comment however if that was in regards to the music itself.
I have witnessed first-hand those who even when presented the Jacket in their finest form, an incredible show at Red Rocks, will walk away 75% of the way through the show and go home. That was my buddy in Denver who is, by way of an excuse, an acoustic music fan, so the electricity and power weren't doing much for him. Some of us can't get enough of this band, and others, well, there's no accounting for taste. ;)
I have zero problem with an honest opinion, I just persoanlly find it weird that you singed up to post on the board with the intent to write a negative review. Everybody is of course entitled to their own opinion and you certainly seem to know what you are talking about.
Actually my intent was more to see if there was any agreement with what I saw, not to criticise just to be a dick. It seems I was mistaken in thinking my views held any relevance to the majority of you, my apologies for bothering you.
i like this guy.
Tell 'em like it is!
Someone posted a similar review to the Phoenix show and said the band was fighting with the crew. It sounds like the wheels may be falling off but I hope that's not the case. I'm sorry you're first jacket experience didn't blow your mind and melt your face. Give them another chance and hopefully you'll catch them on a good day. I've followed this band since 99 and have only heard of very few people disappointed in their shows. Unfortunately most of them of been in the past week.
dude he's in the "biz"... do something worthwhile then instead of just being a funkin wanker...
QuoteSomeone posted a similar review to the Phoenix show and said the band was fighting with the crew. It sounds like the wheels may be falling off but I hope that's not the case. I'm sorry you're first jacket experience didn't blow your mind and melt your face. Give them another chance and hopefully you'll catch them on a good day. I've followed this band since 99 and have only heard of very few people disappointed in their shows. Unfortunately most of them of been in the past week.
strange that it all started to happen
afterCharlize Theron stepped on Jim's cape after the Leno show. Now how do you undo something like that?
QuoteQuoteSomeone posted a similar review to the Phoenix show and said the band was fighting with the crew. It sounds like the wheels may be falling off but I hope that's not the case. I'm sorry you're first jacket experience didn't blow your mind and melt your face. Give them another chance and hopefully you'll catch them on a good day. I've followed this band since 99 and have only heard of very few people disappointed in their shows. Unfortunately most of them of been in the past week.
strange that it all started to happen afterCharlize Theron stepped on Jim's cape after the Leno show. Now how do you undo something like that?
WOW! Good point Tracy. We need to get that cape smudged STAT!! Quickly, somebody, gather the herbs we've got some bad mojo to expell!!
great show at rialto in every way- big props to band and venue!
i respect criticism, but no way do you walk out...
WOW, that blows me awayhttp://140.174.96.14/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/shocked.gif
Shocked!http://140.174.96.14/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/huh.gif
Huhhttp://140.174.96.14/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/huh.gif
Huh
Reminds me of the scene in History of the World Part 2 when the Caveman creates a piece of art on the cave wall, and alas the rise of the first critic...he is seen pissing on the art piece.
Nice having you around bro, don't let the door hit you on the way out. ;D
Like I said, I was not a big fan, but more than willing to try. Sorry to rain on all of your parade, but I am not the critic who pisses on the artwork. I help create the artwork, and make it good. I will leave you to your insecurities.
Insecurity, you mean like....repeatedly bragging about your professional qualifications in order to seek legitimacy? Sorry man, if you went to the show expecting the old stuff, I can see why you were disappointed, but its your condescending tone that sucks. Now, I shall abandon this thread. Good Bye.
Bozeman sucks!
Wait a second.....
Was this guy critical of the band or the sound system and venue??
Quote
Wait a second.....
Was this guy critical of the band or the sound system and venue??
He said, "...the singer certainly sounded as if he was struggling to hit any high notes..." :-/
QuoteJust telling it like I saw it, and I don't care if you don't like it. The truth often hurts. I just hope someone learns something from this.
well, did you learn anything?
QuoteQuoteJust telling it like I saw it, and I don't care if you don't like it. The truth often hurts. I just hope someone learns something from this.
well, did you learn anything?
;D Classic! Zingggggg.
QuoteLike I said, I was not a big fan, but more than willing to try. Sorry to rain on all of your parade, but I am not the critic who pisses on the artwork. I help create the artwork, and make it good. I will leave you to your insecurities.
I was totally ready to let this go, and even defended this fellow's right to state his opinion in another thread. However, this arrogant ass shows his true color with the "I create the artwork, and make it good" BS. Clearly a legend in his own mind.
Good grief, people. I love My Morning Jacket as much as anyone else here, but I have to say that blind devotion is really unattractive. The guy has a decent opinion. Let him state it. No need to criticize him because you don't like it.
OK but next time state an opinion without a resume....I would value any persons opinion even if they weren't David Geffen....
QuoteOK but next time state an opinion without a resume....I would value any persons opinion even if they weren't David Geffen....
Ha! Yes! ;D
sweet Jesus people
I really respect this guy's opinion. He didn't name drop at all until he was asked who he'd worked with, which is completely reasonable. He presented his claims fair and square, and I'll admit, Jim was having some trouble with Remnants when I saw them at the Fox. There's a difference between knowing every word and completely losing yourself in the music and not giving a shit about the sound (I'll admit, the Fox show was also overpowering the speakers, which I didn't care for, but I still got the vibe and it moved in a place I needed to. I overlooked the sound because the band means more to me than bad house sound. There were points where the house sound just wouldn't handle it, though, and that sucked, because I lost a few guitar parts to that...)
That said, this guy has a serious opinion to offer, and a good criticism. The worst show sound I've ever heard was when the Jacket played Vanderbilt's Rites of Spring--the sound was pushed entirely too loud through speakers that couldn't handle it, and it took away from the atmosphere.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Jim or anything, but these guys put on such an intense show that singing stuff like Mahgeetah and Remnants and One Big Holiday night after night into such a high energy set...well, you can lose your top end of your range doing so. What's cool is when a crowd is into it enough and singing loud enough that it doesn't matter, because they're all in accord about it. However, when you don't have all the band's work committed to memory, and are hoping for a pristine and beautiful live experience, setbacks like that can be a turnoff, especially when you've spent your career working to create the best sound possible for an artist you respect.
It sounds that most of his problem was with the sound, as it most likely made it a more difficult experience to enjoy to his ears. Add in some of the setbacks of flubs vocally or wherever else they occurred, and it can really take away. Critical ears hear htings differently, and those are the ears that make an album. What he does is to, in fact, help the artist create their beauty, in translating it to the audience through the sound. When you can hear everything in a pristine manner, it changes the show. The delicate aspects aren't lost, and the most dynamic changes are even moreso. But when everything is being pushed at full blare, you lose the sensitive touch along with the full roar.
All that to say, I had a completely different experience than this guy because of my knowledge and depth of love of the band, but I completely understand his criticism of house sound, and Jim can definitely push himself through a run of shows to the point where his voice doesn't perform the way he needs it to. Which is why I'm sure Remnants hasn't been played at every show. When he can't carry it, he won't, but sometimes you don't know if you can or not when its a ways into the setlist. I only wish he knew which songs to point to where Jim was struggling, as I'm sure it would only make sense when he pushes himself.
I'm okay with a well-informed first post like this. I hope you'll reconsider our board, man. And guys, don't flame on like this when someone has something to say. That's disrespectful when he came in respecting what we all love. He didn't say this to be self-righteous or to come in and stroke himself off all over us with his affiliations, he was looking to see if other people had a similar experience or not. It differs when people have different ears and different brains, but respect is a healthy thing around here.
Dad rant over. Book finished.
QuoteQuote
Wait a second.....
Was this guy critical of the band or the sound system and venue??
He said, "...the singer certainly sounded as if he was struggling to hit any high notes..." :-/
Well, I hate to disappoint you people, but I've seen MMJ four times (with two more times coming up in two weeks) and believe it or not, Jim hasn't been absolutely perfect every single time.
It happens. It's okay. They're still a great band.
Quotesweet Jesus people
I really respect this guy's opinion. He didn't name drop at all until he was asked who he'd worked with, which is completely reasonable. He presented his claims fair and square, and I'll admit, Jim was having some trouble with Remnants when I saw them at the Fox. There's a difference between knowing every word and completely losing yourself in the music and not giving a shit about the sound (I'll admit, the Fox show was also overpowering the speakers, which I didn't care for, but I still got the vibe and it moved in a place I needed to. I overlooked the sound because the band means more to me than bad house sound. There were points where the house sound just wouldn't handle it, though, and that sucked, because I lost a few guitar parts to that...)
That said, this guy has a serious opinion to offer, and a good criticism. The worst show sound I've ever heard was when the Jacket played Vanderbilt's Rites of Spring--the sound was pushed entirely too loud through speakers that couldn't handle it, and it took away from the atmosphere.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Jim or anything, but these guys put on such an intense show that singing stuff like Mahgeetah and Remnants and One Big Holiday night after night into such a high energy set...well, you can lose your top end of your range doing so. What's cool is when a crowd is into it enough and singing loud enough that it doesn't matter, because they're all in accord about it. However, when you don't have all the band's work committed to memory, and are hoping for a pristine and beautiful live experience, setbacks like that can be a turnoff, especially when you've spent your career working to create the best sound possible for an artist you respect.
It sounds that most of his problem was with the sound, as it most likely made it a more difficult experience to enjoy to his ears. Add in some of the setbacks of flubs vocally or wherever else they occurred, and it can really take away. Critical ears hear htings differently, and those are the ears that make an album. What he does is to, in fact, help the artist create their beauty, in translating it to the audience through the sound. When you can hear everything in a pristine manner, it changes the show. The delicate aspects aren't lost, and the most dynamic changes are even moreso. But when everything is being pushed at full blare, you lose the sensitive touch along with the full roar.
All that to say, I had a completely different experience than this guy because of my knowledge and depth of love of the band, but I completely understand his criticism of house sound, and Jim can definitely push himself through a run of shows to the point where his voice doesn't perform the way he needs it to. Which is why I'm sure Remnants hasn't been played at every show. When he can't carry it, he won't, but sometimes you don't know if you can or not when its a ways into the setlist. I only wish he knew which songs to point to where Jim was struggling, as I'm sure it would only make sense when he pushes himself.
I'm okay with a well-informed first post like this. I hope you'll reconsider our board, man. And guys, don't flame on like this when someone has something to say. That's disrespectful when he came in respecting what we all love. He didn't say this to be self-righteous or to come in and stroke himself off all over us with his affiliations, he was looking to see if other people had a similar experience or not. It differs when people have different ears and different brains, but respect is a healthy thing around here.
Dad rant over. Book finished.
thank you GOD :-/ long winded but you have spoken
Quotesweet Jesus people
I really respect this guy's opinion. He didn't name drop at all until he was asked who he'd worked with, which is completely reasonable. He presented his claims fair and square, and I'll admit, Jim was having some trouble with Remnants when I saw them at the Fox. There's a difference between knowing every word and completely losing yourself in the music and not giving a shit about the sound (I'll admit, the Fox show was also overpowering the speakers, which I didn't care for, but I still got the vibe and it moved in a place I needed to. I overlooked the sound because the band means more to me than bad house sound. There were points where the house sound just wouldn't handle it, though, and that sucked, because I lost a few guitar parts to that...)
That said, this guy has a serious opinion to offer, and a good criticism. The worst show sound I've ever heard was when the Jacket played Vanderbilt's Rites of Spring--the sound was pushed entirely too loud through speakers that couldn't handle it, and it took away from the atmosphere.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Jim or anything, but these guys put on such an intense show that singing stuff like Mahgeetah and Remnants and One Big Holiday night after night into such a high energy set...well, you can lose your top end of your range doing so. What's cool is when a crowd is into it enough and singing loud enough that it doesn't matter, because they're all in accord about it. However, when you don't have all the band's work committed to memory, and are hoping for a pristine and beautiful live experience, setbacks like that can be a turnoff, especially when you've spent your career working to create the best sound possible for an artist you respect.
It sounds that most of his problem was with the sound, as it most likely made it a more difficult experience to enjoy to his ears. Add in some of the setbacks of flubs vocally or wherever else they occurred, and it can really take away. Critical ears hear htings differently, and those are the ears that make an album. What he does is to, in fact, help the artist create their beauty, in translating it to the audience through the sound. When you can hear everything in a pristine manner, it changes the show. The delicate aspects aren't lost, and the most dynamic changes are even moreso. But when everything is being pushed at full blare, you lose the sensitive touch along with the full roar.
All that to say, I had a completely different experience than this guy because of my knowledge and depth of love of the band, but I completely understand his criticism of house sound, and Jim can definitely push himself through a run of shows to the point where his voice doesn't perform the way he needs it to. Which is why I'm sure Remnants hasn't been played at every show. When he can't carry it, he won't, but sometimes you don't know if you can or not when its a ways into the setlist. I only wish he knew which songs to point to where Jim was struggling, as I'm sure it would only make sense when he pushes himself.
I'm okay with a well-informed first post like this. I hope you'll reconsider our board, man. And guys, don't flame on like this when someone has something to say. That's disrespectful when he came in respecting what we all love. He didn't say this to be self-righteous or to come in and stroke himself off all over us with his affiliations, he was looking to see if other people had a similar experience or not. It differs when people have different ears and different brains, but respect is a healthy thing around here.
Dad rant over. Book finished.
Amen!
Thank you, as always.
Quotesweet Jesus people
I really respect this guy's opinion. He didn't name drop at all until he was asked who he'd worked with, which is completely reasonable. He presented his claims fair and square, and I'll admit, Jim was having some trouble with Remnants when I saw them at the Fox. There's a difference between knowing every word and completely losing yourself in the music and not giving a shit about the sound (I'll admit, the Fox show was also overpowering the speakers, which I didn't care for, but I still got the vibe and it moved in a place I needed to. I overlooked the sound because the band means more to me than bad house sound. There were points where the house sound just wouldn't handle it, though, and that sucked, because I lost a few guitar parts to that...)
That said, this guy has a serious opinion to offer, and a good criticism. The worst show sound I've ever heard was when the Jacket played Vanderbilt's Rites of Spring--the sound was pushed entirely too loud through speakers that couldn't handle it, and it took away from the atmosphere.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Jim or anything, but these guys put on such an intense show that singing stuff like Mahgeetah and Remnants and One Big Holiday night after night into such a high energy set...well, you can lose your top end of your range doing so. What's cool is when a crowd is into it enough and singing loud enough that it doesn't matter, because they're all in accord about it. However, when you don't have all the band's work committed to memory, and are hoping for a pristine and beautiful live experience, setbacks like that can be a turnoff, especially when you've spent your career working to create the best sound possible for an artist you respect.
It sounds that most of his problem was with the sound, as it most likely made it a more difficult experience to enjoy to his ears. Add in some of the setbacks of flubs vocally or wherever else they occurred, and it can really take away. Critical ears hear htings differently, and those are the ears that make an album. What he does is to, in fact, help the artist create their beauty, in translating it to the audience through the sound. When you can hear everything in a pristine manner, it changes the show. The delicate aspects aren't lost, and the most dynamic changes are even moreso. But when everything is being pushed at full blare, you lose the sensitive touch along with the full roar.
All that to say, I had a completely different experience than this guy because of my knowledge and depth of love of the band, but I completely understand his criticism of house sound, and Jim can definitely push himself through a run of shows to the point where his voice doesn't perform the way he needs it to. Which is why I'm sure Remnants hasn't been played at every show. When he can't carry it, he won't, but sometimes you don't know if you can or not when its a ways into the setlist. I only wish he knew which songs to point to where Jim was struggling, as I'm sure it would only make sense when he pushes himself.
I'm okay with a well-informed first post like this. I hope you'll reconsider our board, man. And guys, don't flame on like this when someone has something to say. That's disrespectful when he came in respecting what we all love. He didn't say this to be self-righteous or to come in and stroke himself off all over us with his affiliations, he was looking to see if other people had a similar experience or not. It differs when people have different ears and different brains, but respect is a healthy thing around here.
Dad rant over. Book finished.
I'm sorry, but saying "i thought about asking for my money back" is in no way "respectful". I'd like to know who else would do what he did; Come into a forum after seeing a show he thought was terrible and tell all of their most hardcore fans that he thought it was so bad he wanted his money back. I'd honestly like to know how that is respectful. I'm not saying his point about the sound may or may not be valid, but I don't feel this is the place to voice that type of bitching. Send a message to the admin, band, etc... Don't use this place where we talk about our love for the band as your dissing soapbox. I have no sympathy for this guy and believe he deserves each negative comment he's recieved. You would think someone in "the biz" could take a little heat from fans without resorting to heirarchy and name dropping.
What the fuck?
QuoteI'm not saying his point about the sound may or may not be valid, but I don't feel this is the place to voice that type of bitching. Send a message to the admin, band, etc... Don't use this place where we talk about our love for the band as your dissing soapbox.
I really don't get that mentality. Isn't the place where we talk about the band? The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly.
Like I said before, this is a public forum, it's not some exclusive club of yes-men.
QuoteQuoteI'm not saying his point about the sound may or may not be valid, but I don't feel this is the place to voice that type of bitching. Send a message to the admin, band, etc... Don't use this place where we talk about our love for the band as your dissing soapbox.
I really don't get that mentality. Isn't the place where we talk about the band? The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly.
Like I said before, this is a public forum, it's not some exclusive club of yes-men.
so it's OK to think it's not OK for people to post negative posts about the band and it's also OK to post negative posts about the band....
so nothing ever posted here should ever be questioned by anyone; either respond or don't.
have a good one
QuoteQuoteI'm not saying his point about the sound may or may not be valid, but I don't feel this is the place to voice that type of bitching. Send a message to the admin, band, etc... Don't use this place where we talk about our love for the band as your dissing soapbox.
I really don't get that mentality. Isn't the place where we talk about the band? The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly.
Like I said before, this is a public forum, it's not some exclusive club of yes-men.
I understand and agree, but I did not see his "good". I just lost all respect for what he was saying when he, like I stated before, said it was so bad that he wanted his money back. I also asked if what he did was something that you(and by that I mean anyone on this forum) would go do on another band's forum. He's no fan; he came to bitch because it didn't meet his standards. Like I also said, he could have contacted someone that would actually look at and solve the problem instead of coming in here and telling the fans how much it sucked. Look, I welcome good and bad opinions, but this guy just seemed to be a troll.
Tracy, I think that things should be questioned. But it seems like it always comes down to someone saying that this isn't the place to state anything negative about the band. That's really what I think is wrong. I truly feel that this is the place that people should be able to state their opinions, good or bad. I don't see this as some sort of praise land for the band and I don't quite understand when people keep implying that it is.
Purvis, I do agree that it was taken a step too far when he said that considered asking for a refund. I'm trying to see it from his point of view. There's a band that you like enough to go see. They happen to be hyped as one of the best live acts out there right now but when you go to their show, for you, it fails to meet your expectations. I can see stating your disappointment and seeing if others agree but yeah...
I don't know, I feel like we're all just kind of repeating the same things over and over in this thread. Like when two people are arguing for the same thing but don't realize it. I ran out of useful input several sentences ago, I'm going to try to just let this go.
Quote
Purvis, I do agree that it was taken a step too far when he said that considered asking for a refund. I'm trying to see it from his point of view. There's a band that you like enough to go see. They happen to be hyped as one of the best live acts out there right now but when you go to their show, for you, it fails to meet your expectations. I can see stating your disappointment and seeing if others agree but yeah...
Can I offer my take? Let's say the same scenario is in place, really hyped and you've got years and years of top-notch live sound under your belt. What you get is a venue that doesn't know how to properly amplify this band and the entire show has you tensing because it's just not
sounding the way it should. The venue and the live sound team have taken away from your experience, and I feel like, in cases where it's mainly a venue's fault for a band not being able to deliver the goods, a refund is a perfectly reasonable consideration. Especially when they're carrying bands worth hearing. They really don't have to care much, because they've already gotten their money for the show, especially when the name of the venue pulls a band towards it. Complaints change things when they're justified. I have no problem seeing how this one
is.
QuoteQuote
Purvis, I do agree that it was taken a step too far when he said that considered asking for a refund. I'm trying to see it from his point of view. There's a band that you like enough to go see. They happen to be hyped as one of the best live acts out there right now but when you go to their show, for you, it fails to meet your expectations. I can see stating your disappointment and seeing if others agree but yeah...
Can I offer my take? Let's say the same scenario is in place, really hyped and you've got years and years of top-notch live sound under your belt. What you get is a venue that doesn't know how to properly amplify this band and the entire show has you tensing because it's just not sounding the way it should. The venue and the live sound team have taken away from your experience, and I feel like, in cases where it's mainly a venue's fault for a band not being able to deliver the goods, a refund is a perfectly reasonable consideration. Especially when they're carrying bands worth hearing. They really don't have to care much, because they've already gotten their money for the show, especially when the name of the venue pulls a band towards it. Complaints change things when they're justified. I have no problem seeing how this one is.
Damnit Tom! You have to go and put it "all reasonable and shit". I do see what you mean though. Never thought about it being the venues fault. :P
QuoteI truly feel that this is the place that people should be able to state their opinions, good or bad.
and, that's what happens. Everyone states their opinions, good or bad.
No one here has any power to stop anyone from posting anything negative about the band. People complain about the setlists, the sound, the tour stops, the merchandise, the studio releases, the TV appearances, etc... and they always will. That will always happen.
And everyone always has the freedom to continue posting such complaints and there is nothing stopping them.
And if I disagree with what someone says, I have the freedom to disagree. So be it.
but even rockerc said, "I do understand that shit will come my way, but I have developed a healthy ability to disregard the bigotry inherent in being a blind fan of anything" so, when it does come his way, what's his reaction? it's this, "If mankind is as narrow-minded as some of you obviously are I am disappointed indeed. Get a life."
now, that's his "ability" to "disregard the bigotry inherent in being a blind fan of anything"; by calling people "narrow minded", saying he is "disappointed" and telling them to "get a life". And I think that is funny, don't you? I mean, he's like, "I can take it" then he lashes out.
You know, Mr stuffy-sound-engineer-wiz for-the-stars gets his feathers ruffled by a bunch of MMJ fanboys, after Mr stuffy sound engineer claims to be above the fray of us peon internet fanboy dweebs.
Charming story, sort of...
(and personally, I am much more interested in hearing about the sheer fun and beauty of the show, like others from Tuscon posted.)
QuoteQuoteI truly feel that this is the place that people should be able to state their opinions, good or bad.
and, that's what happens. Everyone states their opinions, good or bad.
No one here has any power to stop anyone from posting anything negative about the band. People complain about the setlists, the sound, the tour stops, the merchandise, the studio releases, the TV appearances, etc... and they always will. That will always happen.
And everyone always has the freedom to continue posting such complaints and there is nothing stopping them.
And if I disagree with what someone says, I have the freedom to disagree. So be it.
but even rockerc said, "I do understand that shit will come my way, but I have developed a healthy ability to disregard the bigotry inherent in being a blind fan of anything" so, when it does come his way, what's his reaction? it's this, "If mankind is as narrow-minded as some of you obviously are I am disappointed indeed. Get a life."
now, that's his "ability" to "disregard the bigotry inherent in being a blind fan of anything"; by calling people "narrow minded", saying he is "disappointed" and telling them to "get a life". And I think that is funny, don't you? I mean, he's like, "I can take it" then he lashes out.
You know, Mr stuffy-sound-engineer-wiz for-the-stars gets his feathers ruffled by a bunch of MMJ fanboys, after Mr stuffy sound engineer claims to be above the fray of us peon internet fanboy dweebs.
Charming story, sort of...
(and personally, I am much more interested in hearing about the sheer fun and beauty of the show, like others from Tuscon posted.)
In the words of Popeye.. "I aga ga ga ga gree!
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2204/2483797177_e64ccc312d.jpg?v=0)
^^I think that unicorn's knees are too pointy. And it's horn is way too short. The mane should be a little bit longer and I can't see the blonde highlight's too well in the picture. And why does it look like the unicorn has lockjaw??
Also, I think the yellow in the rainbow should be brighter, and I'm not really sure violet should be on the end there.
By the way, I draw unicorns and rainbows for a living, so I know what's up.
Quote^^I think that unicorn's knees are too pointy. And it's horn is way too short. The mane should be a little bit longer and I can't see the blonde highlight's too well in the picture. And why does it look like the unicorn has lockjaw??
Also, I think the yellow in the rainbow should be brighter, and I'm not really sure violet should be on the end there.
By the way, I draw unicorns and rainbows for a living, so I know what's up.
I agree. I was hoping for something more. I am disappointed.
you must do better, chap
Actually I totally understand where this guy is coming from. In the summer of 94 I worked for a lawn sevice and I did nothing but weed eat for eight fucking hours a day. For several years following that summer, no matter where I went or what I did, they only thing I could see when I looked out the window was poorly trimmed grass and overgrown lawns. It drove me crazy. I didn't notice the beauty of the trees, or the amazing sunsets, the flowers, or the hills. Just the goddam grass! I just wanted to leave and not look at it. Then finally one day, I said, "fuck the grass." I came here to have a good time with my friends and relax.
QuoteActually I totally understand where this guy is coming from. In the summer of 94 I worked for a lawn sevice and I did nothing but weed eat for eight fucking hours a day. For several years following that summer, no matter where I went or what I did, they only thing I could see when I looked out the window was poorly trimmed grass and overgrown lawns. It drove me crazy. I didn't notice the beauty of the trees, or the amazing sunsets, the flowers, or the hills. Just the goddam grass! I just wanted to leave and not look at it. Then finally one day, I said, "fuck the grass." I came here to have a good time with my friends and relax.
But I would bet you never stopped at someone's house to offer up the criticism that their lawn sucked, did you? ;)
Quote^^I think that unicorn's knees are too pointy. And it's horn is way too short. The mane should be a little bit longer and I can't see the blonde highlight's too well in the picture. And why does it look like the unicorn has lockjaw??
Also, I think the yellow in the rainbow should be brighter, and I'm not really sure violet should be on the end there.
By the way, I draw unicorns and rainbows for a living, so I know what's up.
Top notch ;D
QuoteQuote
Purvis, I do agree that it was taken a step too far when he said that considered asking for a refund. I'm trying to see it from his point of view. There's a band that you like enough to go see. They happen to be hyped as one of the best live acts out there right now but when you go to their show, for you, it fails to meet your expectations. I can see stating your disappointment and seeing if others agree but yeah...
Can I offer my take? Let's say the same scenario is in place, really hyped and you've got years and years of top-notch live sound under your belt. What you get is a venue that doesn't know how to properly amplify this band and the entire show has you tensing because it's just not sounding the way it should. The venue and the live sound team have taken away from your experience, and I feel like, in cases where it's mainly a venue's fault for a band not being able to deliver the goods, a refund is a perfectly reasonable consideration. Especially when they're carrying bands worth hearing. They really don't have to care much, because they've already gotten their money for the show, especially when the name of the venue pulls a band towards it. Complaints change things when they're justified. I have no problem seeing how this one is.
I mentioned it in another thread where I reviewed the Tucson show.
The sound at the Rialto was pretty damn good considering the extreme dynamic shift in MMJ's music... not to mention they've been working w/ a totally revamped soundsystem. Now, the sound was nowhere near the perfection of Bonnaroo's Grade A+ sound, but it was also not even remotely close to being as bad as this dude's made it out to be... a refund? for that show??? jesus...
if you want to hear a bad sound system and poor sound overall... check out the marquee theater in Tempe... they definitely have some issues there.
"And why does it look like the unicorn has lockjaw??"...
Now that's some funny shit...I love this place!!! ;D
Wow I thought this post would of died out by now. :-/i Just have to say again that I was right behind this guy and yes they were having a few poblems seams like with Jims mike .On one or two songs the mike was not on when Jim started to wail. Hardy noticeable.This guy looked like he had cotton in his ears,was to old to stand up for the two hour plus show anyway.What do people in the "biz" know about Rock & Roll anyway.. ;)Great show MMJ AND PLEASE COME BACK SOON :D :D Check out the recording of the Phx.Marquee the night before, fantastic sound. I was blessed to be at that show also ,right behind the recording mikes, the echo of the hall with the reverb sweet!!
QuoteActually I totally understand where this guy is coming from. In the summer of 94 I worked for a lawn sevice and I did nothing but weed eat for eight fucking hours a day. For several years following that summer, no matter where I went or what I did, they only thing I could see when I looked out the window was poorly trimmed grass and overgrown lawns. It drove me crazy. I didn't notice the beauty of the trees, or the amazing sunsets, the flowers, or the hills. Just the goddam grass! I just wanted to leave and not look at it. Then finally one day, I said, "fuck the grass." I came here to have a good time with my friends and relax.
This is my dream. I see him, that guy in the back of the '88 Ford F 350 King Cab. He lost the bet and now he must rest among the downed palm fronds and ant-ridden detritus of Mr. Smith's lawn. But he doesn't care. He knows better. He'll go to that next lawn and wack those weeds; he'll wack 'em good. And he'll get back in that truck and do it again.
At the end of the day he'll take a hit or two on that one-hitter he's had in his pocket all day. He'll go home and watch an old episode of the Simpsons, drink 6 to 10 buds, pass out and smile. More weeds tomorrow. He knows more than me.
QuoteQuoteActually I totally understand where this guy is coming from. In the summer of 94 I worked for a lawn sevice and I did nothing but weed eat for eight fucking hours a day. For several years following that summer, no matter where I went or what I did, they only thing I could see when I looked out the window was poorly trimmed grass and overgrown lawns. It drove me crazy. I didn't notice the beauty of the trees, or the amazing sunsets, the flowers, or the hills. Just the goddam grass! I just wanted to leave and not look at it. Then finally one day, I said, "fuck the grass." I came here to have a good time with my friends and relax.
This is my dream. I see him, that guy in the back of the '88 Ford F 350 King Cab. He lost the bet and now he must rest among the downed palm fronds and ant-ridden detritus of Mr. Smith's lawn. But he doesn't care. He knows better. He'll go to that next lawn and wack those weeds; he'll wack 'em good. And he'll get back in that truck and do it again.
At the end of the day he'll take a hit or two on that one-hitter he's had in his pocket all day. He'll go home and watch an old episode of the Simpsons, drink 6 to 10 buds, pass out and smile. More weeds tomorrow. He knows more than me.
I hear ya; there's something to be said about knowing you'll leave it all on the field, and pick it back up tomorrow, or Monday.
this post made my night ;D