Throughout the history of rock n' roll, there as always been some incarnation of it being played, from prog to punk to grunge, and more recently revival. But now, in a world where "mainstream" rock artists appeal to the masses and don't last long, look at where arena rock is now. The last "classic" bands: Tom Petty, The Who, and The Rolling Stones are all having their last go-round. The only "true" arena rock bands these days are U2 and Pearl Jam. Now it is terrible pop country artists who are raking in millions and selling out arenas worldwide. Even most mainstream rock artists don't get past venues like House of Blues. And look at MMJ. They have worked their way up from the bottom with 4 masterpiece albums and non-stop touring and recording, and they play their hearts out at every show. And while we still see them in clubs, poser bands like Hinder and Fall Out Boy sell out shows on one radio hit. That is sad.
So I feel it is finally safe to pronounce the death of arena rock, born many years ago with the great Led Zeppelin. It is time to look away from the mainstream and turn to those who still feel the need to make great music. Sorry to say this, but even I have given up hope of MMJ breaking in the mainstream. Off the Record may be their only song that will ever reach the mainstream. It is sad that music had to come to such an inglorious end. :'(
On the bright side, MMJ can still play in clubs! [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]
Hey TheDark, not too sure what it is exactly you're trying to say here...
Granted, they'll never be Nickelback or Britney 'mainstream' but MMJ get bigger & bigger with every album/tour. Off The Record isn't their only song to reach the mainstream, what about OBH? (used by the media both in the US & UK)
And didn't MMJ just play 3 sold out nights at the Filmore?!!
'Terrible pop country artists' don't sell out arenas worldwide, that only happens in the US.
& if U2 are rock then so are Coldplay & they're a huge band playing arenas. What about Radiohead? (when they come back)
I'm not a fan but what about The Dave Matthews Band, Greenday etc etc
You're right about pop country artists, they probably don't sell out worldwide. But, living in South Carolina that's how it seems. As of right now, Coldplay are on hiatus, Green Day may not be around much longer, and Dave Matthews band have gotten progressively worse with each album.
Go to the main stage at Bonnaroo and you will feel like you are in an arena. ;)
Do these cookie cutter amphitheaters count as arenas?
(http://www.hamptonroadsvisitor.com/amphitheater2.jpg)
i would rather see a band at a smaller venue, like a club or say, the ryman (!), any day of the week than at some big ass arena. arena shows are impersonal, and in my opinion, they suck.
QuoteThe last "classic" bands: Tom Petty, The Who, and The Rolling Stones are all having their last go-round. The only "true" arena rock bands these days are U2 and Pearl Jam
Hold on there partner! I've been hearing for twenty five years that the Stones and the Who are "finished" and that this is there "last" tour. Hogwash! As long as there's $$$ to be made touring, the Stones (and to a lesser extent the Who) will keep going as long as members are still alive and breathing.
You are also forgetting that the so called "nostalgia" circuit has a plethora of arena rock bands playing. Styx, Loverboy, REO Speedwagon, and my beloved Thin Lizzy are all touring in one form or another. (sans a few members, of course). Journey and Foreigner are both still touring. Rush is due to tour again...shoot, that's plenty of arena rockin' for my tastes!
As for comparing one shot radio success made by the likes of Fall Out Boy et al flavor of the week on commerical crap radio, I don't think you can compare MMJ and their rise to power with other modern bands at all. Where will Fall Out Boy be in seven years? Folding T shirts at the Gap? OD'ed on coffee blogging their poverty at the Starbucks?? MMJ don't need no arena tour and radio hit (although that would be nice for them financially). They've taken another route, albeit with harder work and longer rise, but years and years from now, we'll look back at this time as the "early days" like the Stones at Altamount.
i mean, really, where's the fun in seeing a band at the globochem/ megabank/ cell provider aweso-dome?
Arena rock ain't dead. It just isn't as fashionable to the mainstream as it used to be.
I live in Reno and tried to get tickets to Tool. It sold out in 90 minutes. Over 7000 seats.
Music fans have it seems 18 times as many choices in styles of music and bands to go see now. It is much different than when Zepplin was in their prime.
Quotei mean, really, where's the fun in seeing a band at the globochem/ megabank/ cell provider aweso-dome?
I love arena shows (when they're done right). Sure, it's not as intimate, but the spectacle is one that has to be admired.
(http://www.cbc.ca/arts/images/pics/charity2.jpg)
Quotei mean, really, where's the fun in seeing a band at the globochem/ megabank/ cell provider aweso-dome?
that girl...your ability to use stuff from Mr. Show in casual conversation delights me! Hehe.
I suppose I misphrased what I said. I don't mean that it's dead yet, but when these classic bands finally do end (might be a while for the Stones or Who), it doesn't seem like there will be anyone who will take their place.
My Morning Jacket
I agree that mainstream music now is at an awful low, with U2 and Coldplay the last bastions of actually decent bands you hear on the pop stations. But if you look at it, there will be a rebirth of good music, it happens all the time. From 1960-1966 rock and pop were predictable (exept for the beatles and the stones, maybe the beach boys) but then boom, a huge explosion from 1967-1974 or so a golden era in rock was reached. Just about every great band started or had their heydey in those couple years. From about 1974-1990, the amount of truly great, great new artists emerging were little or none. Bruce, The Eagles, REM, U2, The Police, Tom Petty and a couple of others were truly great, but not many other innovators really shone through. Then bang, in 1990-1994 rock got a new wave- Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Oasis, Radiohead, and others from the grunge/alt rock scene crossed over into pop stardom. I think that since about 1996 or so, every truly great new artist has been listed as "Indie", such as Ryan Adams, The Strokes, MMJ, Flaming Lips, Ben Harper, and endless others havent been given a chance to break into the mainstream. Maybe in a year or two, a new rock revoloution will put commercial emo like Fall Out Boy and Panic at the Disco and just plain awful stuff like Nickelback and Hinder out of business and true great musi will once again become popular. Maybe its just wishful thinking, but i think one more great album from the jackets will push them up to a level where every critic will say that they are americas best real rock and roll band.
QuoteI agree that mainstream music now is at an awful low, with U2 and Coldplay the last bastions of actually decent bands you hear on the pop stations. But if you look at it, there will be a rebirth of good music, it happens all the time. From 1960-1966 rock and pop were predictable (exept for the beatles and the stones, maybe the beach boys) but then boom, a huge explosion from 1967-1974 or so a golden era in rock was reached. Just about every great band started or had their heydey in those couple years. From about 1974-1990, the amount of truly great, great new artists emerging were little or none. Bruce, The Eagles, REM, U2, The Police, Tom Petty and a couple of others were truly great, but not many other innovators really shone through. Then bang, in 1990-1994 rock got a new wave- Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Oasis, Radiohead, and others from the grunge/alt rock scene crossed over into pop stardom. I think that since about 1996 or so, every truly great new artist has been listed as "Indie", such as Ryan Adams, The Strokes, MMJ, Flaming Lips, Ben Harper, and endless others havent been given a chance to break into the mainstream. Maybe in a year or two, a new rock revoloution will put commercial emo like Fall Out Boy and Panic at the Disco and just plain awful stuff like Nickelback and Hinder out of business and true great musi will once again become popular. Maybe its just wishful thinking, but i think one more great album from the jackets will push them up to a level where every critic will say that they are americas best real rock and roll band.
Our indie bands will be remembered as the truly "great" bands of the period, like Sonic Youth and Velvet Undergroud were. And commercial bands like Fall Out Boy and Nickelback WILL fall out of fashion. The question is, who will replace them? Will they be even worse? Or will honest music have a revival? It looks worse than ever for rock these days, but I'm sure that good music will prevail in the end. It's high time that happened.
QuoteI love arena shows (when they're done right). Sure, it's not as intimate, but the spectacle is one that has to be admired.
(http://www.cbc.ca/arts/images/pics/charity2.jpg)
Isn't that a stadium? Serious question.
Arena gigs & stadium gigs are two different things. Like you said, if an arena show is done right it can still be a great show. I'll see the right band in an arena but when they hit the stadiums I stear clear.
Arena rock
(From Wikipedia)
Arena rock is a loosely defined style of rock music, often also called anthem rock or stadium rock, and the style of music is closely associated with "corporate rock" and album-oriented rock. Arena rock is usually medium hard rock, but lacks the edginess or rage often inherent in heavy metal. Simple rhythms, acoustic/electric guitar interplay, and keyboards define the instrumental sound, and vocally the music is far closer to mainstream pop than most hard rock or metal.
In the 1960s, the tremendous popularity of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones led to the use of larger venues to accommodate audiences. The Beatles' 1965 appearance at New York City's Shea Stadium is often cited as the first "arena rock" concert. By the 1970s, the ability to perform for huge crowds in sports arenas and stadiums became a prerequisite for rock stardom.
While many groups performed in massive venues while on tour, the term "arena rock" usually refers to 1970s and 1980s hard rock groups that occupied a middle ground between the heavy metal sound and the softer adult oriented sounds of country rock and the singer-songwriters of the decade. Bands such as Boston, Foreigner, Journey, Kansas, Queen, REO Speedwagon, Styx, Scorpions, Survivor, and performers such as Meat Loaf, Eddie Money and Peter Frampton directed their appeal to a young white American audience who favored bombastic, anthemic rock.
The rise of MTV and new wave music adversely affected many of these groups, but some continued to be successful in the 1980s. Hair metal bands such as Twisted Sister and Def Leppard, in retrospect, are essentially a continuation of this style and sound. Indeed, even some heavy metal acts were able to break into the fold, most notably Metallica whose drummer Lars Ulrich was recorded as saying that they desired to "...fuck with the concept of arena rock" [citation needed] during their extensive stadium tour in 1992. This marked a change from the band's initial desire to shun "mass market" practices, but showed that as the popularity of a group increases, so too must the venue at which it performs. However, "arena rock" retains much of its pejorative meaning, as some popular alternative rock groups of the 1990s such as Stone Temple Pilots were tagged with this label by dismissive critics. In the early 2000s, Creed was similarly labeled.
Dark i know what you mean. Im from Columbia and its sad that our biggest musical export is freaking crap like crossfade. Maybe Band Of Horses (who just moved to Charleston) can put SC's music back on track.
QuoteAs of right now, Coldplay are on hiatus
I saw them live in Japan last summer & they're currently on tour in South America. It has just been announced that Brian Eno will produce their new album. How the fuck can that be a 'hiatus'?!!
Okay, maybe they aren't. I thought I heard them announce that they were... I'm probably wrong. Okay, they can be added to the list. They're not as good as Pearl Jam or U2, though.
QuoteDark i know what you mean. Im from Columbia and its sad that our biggest musical export is freaking crap like crossfade. Maybe Band Of Horses (who just moved to Charleston) can put SC's music back on track.
I live in Charleston! Why did I not hear about this!?!?!?!?
QuoteThey're not as good as Pearl Jam or U2, though.
That's a matter of opinion.
I don't mean to be rude Dark but it would seem to me that you have no idea what you're talking about. Just because a band isn't currently touring in your country doesn't mean to say they're on Hiatus.
& please take a look at this link for Wembley Arena: http://www.livenation.co.uk/venues/venue.aspx?vrid=1065&&shortcut=wembley
(the UK's most famous concert arena) & check out who's playing in first half of 2007 (The Killers, Keane, My Chemical Romance, Bob Dylan, Lostprophets, Deep Purple, Bryan Adams, Dave Matthews Band, Pearl Jam, Ozzy Osbourne, Damien Rice) Some of those artists/bands I like, some I don't but that's not relevant.
I would say you've got a pretty good mix of old & new right there making your comment about 'no one to take their place' simply not true.
The death of arena rock? Maybe in the 2nd half of 2007...
Maybe I don't. I live in South Carolina and no one important seems to come here (except for MMJ). It just seems that when I look back on this period, I don't know who people will remember. All I mean to say is it seems that the truly good bands struggle for years to reach the top, but poser bands and bad pop artists reach it with ease. I don't like that.
QuoteAll I mean to say is it seems that the truly good bands struggle for years to reach the top, but poser bands and bad pop artists reach it with ease. I don't like that.
Hmm, I want to say you're over-generalising but I think I've already given you enough shit for today ;)
Some bands work hard their whole career & never get the recognition they deserve but some bands do make it big from the get go (Radiohead, Pearl Jam, Oasis etc)
Other artists work hard for a years & it eventually pays off, Ray LaMontagne for example is kicking up one hell of a storm (especially in the UK) right now after paying his dues for X amount of years.
Maybe you should worry less about what other people are listening to? If I had to listen to a mainstream radio station or watch MTV for a day (they still play music videos in Japan) I'd probably kill myself!
All we can do is count ourselves lucky & consider ourselves fortunate to have discovered this incredible band.
Everyone else can go f**k themselves ;)
I'm a high schooler and everyone else listens to total crap, and they are too stubborn to give MMJ a listen. I've only met one other person who shares my musical taste. Hard to let it go when everyone I know doesn't give good bands like MMJ a chance.
I was in a bad mood when I wrote the first post. I've taken enough heat for this thread. :-[
Hey Dark, I sent you a PM :)
Thanks, sent you one too ;)
The Dark, I applaud your enthusiasm! Plus your bein schooled by the best. ;)
Quote. From about 1974-1990, the amount of truly great, great new artists emerging were little or none. Bruce, The Eagles, REM, U2, The Police, Tom Petty and a couple of others were truly great, .
What about The Clash, "the only band that matters"!
QuoteQuotei mean, really, where's the fun in seeing a band at the globochem/ megabank/ cell provider aweso-dome?
that girl...your ability to use stuff from Mr. Show in casual conversation delights me! Hehe.
"I guess what I'm trying to say is... Pack your bags, gang; we're going up my mother's ass!"
:D
QuoteQuote. From about 1974-1990, the amount of truly great, great new artists emerging were little or none. Bruce, The Eagles, REM, U2, The Police, Tom Petty and a couple of others were truly great, .
What about The Clash, "the only band that matters"!
It's true that the 80's may be the worst decade when it comes to rock, but to write off 6 years of the 70's along with some decent 80's bands is ridiculous and short-sighted.
The sad truth is that most of the great bands of the 60's and 70's that were still hanging around were on life support by the 80's, further tarnishing that decade's reputation.
This thread begs the question: Do we really need arena rock anymore? [smiley=bath.gif]
Is that smiley knocking one off in the bath? Sure looks like it to me!
QuoteFrom about 1974-1990, the amount of truly great, great new artists emerging were little or none. Bruce, The Eagles, REM, U2, The Police, Tom Petty and a couple of others were truly great, but not many other innovators really shone through.
Really?
I happen to like Sonic Youth, B-52's, The Pixies, The Replacements, Husker Du, Dinosaur Jr, The Ramones, Stevie Ray Vaughan, The Talking Heads, Metallica, Primus, Guns n Roses, The Clash, Van Halen, Iron Maiden, The Sex Pistols, Dire Straits, AC/DC... and that's off the top of my head.
You should check these bands out, you might change your mind.
QuoteIs that smiley knocking one off in the bath? Sure looks like it to me!
i thought the same thing.
QuoteIs that smiley knocking one off in the bath? Sure looks like it to me!
A gentleman never tells... ;)
QuoteQuoteFrom about 1974-1990, the amount of truly great, great new artists emerging were little or none. Bruce, The Eagles, REM, U2, The Police, Tom Petty and a couple of others were truly great, but not many other innovators really shone through.
Really?
I happen to like Sonic Youth, B-52's, The Pixies, The Replacements, Husker Du, Dinosaur Jr, The Ramones, Stevie Ray Vaughan, The Talking Heads, Metallica, Primus, Guns n Roses, The Clash, Van Halen, Iron Maiden, The Sex Pistols, Dire Straits, AC/DC... and that's off the top of my head.
You should check these bands out, you might change your mind.
Yeah but during the 80s Sonic Youth, B-52's, The Pixies, The Replacements, Husker Du, Dinosaur Jr were pretty much what today we call indie music, and punk (The Pistols, Ramones) has since fallen into the awfulness that is pop-punk. I admit that the Clash are a truly legendary stones/zep/beatles class band and i forgot them, but Iron Maiden and Van Halen? Far from legendary bands in my opinion. Metallica and AC/DC are good and original dont get me wrong, but transcendent? Far from it. This period produced far less truly classic transcendent bands as the period of 1965-1975.
I don't know about you lumping the B-52's into the indie pile...
Here is my take on the evolution and current state of the concert industry. In the early days of rock n roll, the fifties and sixties, the single ruled the music business. People bought singles, and the record companies found them in the form of lots of hit performers. Touring and performing was done in groups. For example, if you watch the movie La Bamba, you see how Buddy Holly played on a bill with at a whole bunch of artists. Artists didn't have huge catalogs to fill two hours.
Then by the seventies bands recorded albums and built concerts around the Bill Graham style of business. Bands like the Dead and Stones were building what would become the business model for the concert industry for decades to come.
By the 90s CDs were the mainstream. CD Singles never really caught on though so people continued to buy albums. This encourages record companies to find prolific bands rather than one hit wonders.
In the last few years, with the growth of digital music and Napster and iTunes the Single is once again king. That encourages the record companies to find bands to fill the short term profit goals rather than prolific bands like MMJ. These modern bands don't have catalogs to tour behind so you have the festival now becoming the business model of the concert industry. Its cheaper to throw huge events and get the fans to travel to see the music. They book 100 bands and it becomes bonnaroo etc.
The big bands with big fan base and big catalogs don't work cheaply and that's why tickets are so outrageous. I have a ticket from the Stones Steel wheels tour in '89, it was $30 face value and that was hugely expensive at that time.
In my state, arena rock has become Casino Rock. Any big bands play the casino and average joe loses out to high rollers at each and every concert. Its really sad. I love concerts, hate casinos. I'd rather stay home than pay $150 for crap seats while Joe Poker tournament sits up front.
End of rant..
QuoteQuoteQuoteFrom about 1974-1990, the amount of truly great, great new artists emerging were little or none. Bruce, The Eagles, REM, U2, The Police, Tom Petty and a couple of others were truly great, but not many other innovators really shone through.
Really?
I happen to like Sonic Youth, B-52's, The Pixies, The Replacements, Husker Du, Dinosaur Jr, The Ramones, Stevie Ray Vaughan, The Talking Heads, Metallica, Primus, Guns n Roses, The Clash, Van Halen, Iron Maiden, The Sex Pistols, Dire Straits, AC/DC... and that's off the top of my head.
You should check these bands out, you might change your mind.
Yeah but during the 80s Sonic Youth, B-52's, The Pixies, The Replacements, Husker Du, Dinosaur Jr were pretty much what today we call indie music, and punk (The Pistols, Ramones) has since fallen into the awfulness that is pop-punk. I admit that the Clash are a truly legendary stones/zep/beatles class band and i forgot them, but Iron Maiden and Van Halen? Far from legendary bands in my opinion. Metallica and AC/DC are good and original dont get me wrong, but transcendent? Far from it. This period produced far less truly classic transcendent bands as the period of 1965-1975.
jeeez, what's your fucking point? Who ever said anything about trascendent? I was merely responding to your statement:
From about 1974-1990, the amount of truly great, great new artists emerging were little or none and I simply pointed out some really great artists from that time period. Calling The Pixies "indie" or saying punk has been watered down is neither here nor there and has nothing to do with my reply (IMO).
And too bad Eddie Van Halen inventing an entire new style of playing the electric guitar is not "innovative" enough for you.
But I glanced back at your original post (you remember that one, the one
I was responding to?) where you list The Strokes....The Strokes, as great artists. Yikes.
Long live rock.
Hey, this isn't a debate club! >:(
the way i see it, they have played stadiums.
(http://www.mymorningjacket.com/Gallery/2006/verona091606-06.jpg)
can someone agree on that?
I think that was in Europe supporting PJ, might be wrong.
Great, great pic!
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteFrom about 1974-1990, the amount of truly great, great new artists emerging were little or none. Bruce, The Eagles, REM, U2, The Police, Tom Petty and a couple of others were truly great, but not many other innovators really shone through.
Really?
I happen to like Sonic Youth, B-52's, The Pixies, The Replacements, Husker Du, Dinosaur Jr, The Ramones, Stevie Ray Vaughan, The Talking Heads, Metallica, Primus, Guns n Roses, The Clash, Van Halen, Iron Maiden, The Sex Pistols, Dire Straits, AC/DC... and that's off the top of my head.
You should check these bands out, you might change your mind.
Yeah but during the 80s Sonic Youth, B-52's, The Pixies, The Replacements, Husker Du, Dinosaur Jr were pretty much what today we call indie music, and punk (The Pistols, Ramones) has since fallen into the awfulness that is pop-punk. I admit that the Clash are a truly legendary stones/zep/beatles class band and i forgot them, but Iron Maiden and Van Halen? Far from legendary bands in my opinion. Metallica and AC/DC are good and original dont get me wrong, but transcendent? Far from it. This period produced far less truly classic transcendent bands as the period of 1965-1975.
jeeez, what's your fucking point? Who ever said anything about trascendent? I was merely responding to your statement: From about 1974-1990, the amount of truly great, great new artists emerging were little or none and I simply pointed out some really great artists from that time period. Calling The Pixies "indie" or saying punk has been watered down is neither here nor there and has nothing to do with my reply (IMO).
And too bad Eddie Van Halen inventing an entire new style of playing the electric guitar is not "innovative" enough for you.
But I glanced back at your original post (you remember that one, the one I was responding to?) where you list The Strokes....The Strokes, as great artists. Yikes.
Long live rock.
Lets all chill out here, enough of this stupid arguement. Long live rock is right.
Quote
Lets all chill out here, enough of this stupid arguement. Long live rock is right.
yes, lets do (I like to argue ::))
And one thing about this board, we can have heated debates and strong disagreements, but it's
not, and never should get, personal. So, if you feel that coming from me, dismiss it b/c it ain't there.
Because in the future, chances are we'll be at a Jacket show at the same time, elbow to elbow, singing together at the tops of our lungs.
Peace.
out
QuoteI think that was in Europe supporting PJ, might be wrong.
Great, great pic!
it was. i know they weren't the headliner, but playing at that place would be coolest thing ever. thats a once in a lifetime kind of thing, for any band to play there.
QuoteQuote
Lets all chill out here, enough of this stupid arguement. Long live rock is right.
yes, lets do (I like to argue ::))
And one thing about this board, we can have heated debates and strong disagreements, but it's not, and never should get, personal. So, if you feel that coming from me, dismiss it b/c it ain't there.
Because in the future, chances are we'll be at a Jacket show at the same time, elbow to elbow, singing together at the tops of our lungs.
Peace.
out
i feel the love.