I went to the show at The Troxy last night and I have to say that I was really disappointed. Obviously I am a big MMJ fan and one of the best gigs I have been to was MMJ's last visit to London. I bought one M. Ward album from a recommendation on here but it didn't really strike a chord with me. Until last night I had never heard anything by Conor Oberst or Bright Eyes, and from what I'd read in magazines he/they have never been a band I'd been interested in checking out.
I have already commented in other threads that the MOF album was pretty average in my opinion. Not bad, but just not great.
Anyway, I also mentioned on here that I was even thinking of not attending the show based on the album. But based on the fact that this was a chance to see Jim James live (especially after my pre-booked Amsterdam trip was ruined by his unexpected stage dive last year!), and that the "live" experience is almost always way better than a cd, myself and my wife went along last night. In the end, she thought exactly the same way as I did. It turns out she didn't say much about it for the first six or seven songs because she thought I was expecting to enjoy it so much and didn't want to offend me!
I was galvanised by the fact that I'd read on here that a good few MMJ songs were played in the set. I also think that The Troxy is a pretty good venue. I'd seen Wilco there a few months ago and it was a great night. Anyway, I absolutely went with an open mind. And I hadn't voiced any of my concerns to my wife about the album etc. She fully expected I was going to have a great time.
I can't comment on the whole show because we left after about 20 songs had been played. There were a number of reasons for this. The biggest one was Conor Oberst. He's obviously popular. I'm sure the crowd was made up of 70% Bright Eyes fans, which is why the gig was sold out I believe. But I just hated him and his songs. As we say over here, he's really "up his own arse" in a big way. Pretentious, affected and more importantly his songs reminded me of crappy teenage poems put to music. "You were carved from bone. But your heart it's just sand. And the wind is going to scatter it and cover everything with love." Oh come on, please! We were on the verge of laughing at one point but we didn't want to be lynched by teenagers in skinny jeans! On top of that he just has nothing for a voice. It has no soul whatsoever.
M. Ward's stuff was okay, a little samey, but at least his voice has something.
Apart from the cringeworthy Oberst our main reason for leaving was that the show itself was poor. There was no chemistry between the individuals. There was no flow to the set. Everytime I thought things were going to pick up as a band they stopped and we had to suffer a couple of dreary songs from Oberst on his own (or accompanied by one other). Then things would pick up a little, then they'd stop for a couple of M. Ward songs. It was billed as two and a half hours with MOF, but it was actually 3 or 4 different sets in dribs and drabs. Solo sets from Oberst, Ward and James, and then MOF songs. And I don't think their solo outputs mesh together particularly well. Fortunately the MMJ songs still tended to be full band workings of the songs which kept things going slightly.
I have to say it, but I think the whole MOF thing has been a rather clever marketing ploy. Each participant brings a certain number of fans to the table, and after it's all over they all gain exposure to a whole new audience. With the majority being Bright Eyes fans I'm sure there will be a lot who will want to check out more of Jim James and MMJ. I may be biased, but he stood head and shoulders above the other guys on stage. I'm sure there will even be some MMJ fans who like what they heard from Oberst and will buy some of his stuff; and the same goes for M. Ward too.
There were some good moments. I thought Dear God was superb. Jim's voice was soulful and powerful (that goes without saying). But as a whole there was nothing organic and free flowing about it. When I saw Wilco twice recently, and MMJ last year, it all seemed so natural, so much fun. This just seemed jumbled, staged, and pretty soulless.
Real sorry to hear you didn't have a good time Paulie...were we at the same show?!!
I thought it was fantastic!!! Absolutely amazing!!! I thought the chemisty was spot on & the band were incredibly tight. Everyone looked like they were really enjoying themselves, Jim & Mike (what a guy!!!) especially.
I thought the whole thing worked perfectly - part folk concert, part rock show, part soul revue! Too many highlights to mention - the whole thing (nearly 3hrs) was a blast from start to finish IMO.
Nice to meet St. John (thanks SO much for the ticket!) & Sparkle & her friend from New Zealand ;)
i'm sorry to say , i agree with everything PW has said and then some.
good news is that the venue is good.
best was meeting dragon boy and sparkle.
You two must have been smoking crack or something ;)
Seriously - excellent, excellent show!!!
If you'd had some crack I might have stayed!
:D
Yep, as DB said, excellent, excellent show! I enjoyed every minute from start to finish even if there were a few Conor songs which I was less familiar with. Have to agree that the crowd was predominantly Bright Eyes fans so a lot of love for Conor... hopefully we balanced that out a bit after the Jim/M songs :)
Great to meet st john and DB :)
Quote& her friend from New Zealand ;)
;D ;D
Glad you had a good time db and Sparkle!
I'm seeing a theme for the few people who are not enjoying the show. They all don't really care for Conor or M going in and therefore they really can't enjoy the show. Which is fine, but kind of expected right? Paulie, you didn't think the show flowed very well, but how could it when you hate Conor and he makes up at least a third of the event. Of course it's not going to flow for you. Don't worry, MMJ will be back soon!
YAY for everyone who had a good time and got to meet new people!!!
I'm sorry for those of you who didn't enjoy the show :-[
I respect everyones opinion and I totally agree with "different strokes for different folks" but I have a hard time understanding how M Ward doesn't knock you on your ass with his awesomeness. ;D
QuoteGlad you had a good time db and Sparkle!
I'm seeing a theme for the few people who are not enjoying the show. They all don't really care for Conor or M going in and therefore they really can't enjoy the show. Which is fine, but kind of expected right? Paulie, you didn't think the show flowed very well, but how could it when you hate Conor and he makes up at least a third of the event. Of course it's not going to flow for you. Don't worry, MMJ will be back soon!
Like I said, I had never even heard one thing from Conor Oberst or Bright Eyes before. If I'd hated him before there's no way I would have gone. And I honestly went in with an open mind. I didn't know he was going to suck! False, fake, pretentious....what more can I say?!!
I thought M. Ward was okay. He does have an interesting voice.
Anyway, from the noise in The Troxy we were obviously in a minority. A lot of people seemed to be having a great time, so I'm sure it was viewed as a success.
Here is the setlist from nicemarmot at The Right Place.
1. Say Please
2. The Right Place
3. Soul Singer In A Session Band
4. Slow Down Jo
5. Man Named Truth
6. Lullaby + Exile
7. We Are Nowhere And It's Now
8. The Big Picture
9. Golden
10. Ahead of the Curve
11. Vincent O'Brien
12. Wonderful (The Way I Feel)
13. Chinese Translation
14. One Hundred Million Years
15. Smoke Without Fire
16. At Dawn
17. Baby Boomer
18. Dear God (Sincerely M.O.F.)
19. Temazcal
20. To Save Me
21. Kathy With A K's Song
22. Goodway
23. Just To Know What You've Been Dreaming
24. Look At You
25. Lime Tree
26. One Life Away
27. Map of The World
28. Sandman, The Brakeman And Me
29. Smokin' From Shootin'
30. Hit The Switch
31. Losin Yo Head
--------encore-----------
32. At The Bottom of Everything
33. Whole Lotta Losin'
34. Another Travelin' Song
35. His Master's Voice
QuoteQuoteGlad you had a good time db and Sparkle!
I'm seeing a theme for the few people who are not enjoying the show. They all don't really care for Conor or M going in and therefore they really can't enjoy the show. Which is fine, but kind of expected right? Paulie, you didn't think the show flowed very well, but how could it when you hate Conor and he makes up at least a third of the event. Of course it's not going to flow for you. Don't worry, MMJ will be back soon!
Like I said, I had never even heard one thing from Conor Oberst or Bright Eyes before. If I'd hated him before there's no way I would have gone. And I honestly went in with an open mind. I didn't know he was going to suck! False, fake, pretentious....what more can I say?!!
I thought M. Ward was okay. He does have an interesting voice.
Anyway, from the noise in The Troxy we were obviously in a minority. A lot of people seemed to be having a great time, so I'm sure it was viewed as a success.
I guess my only question would be, how do you determine that he is "False, fake and pretentious" based on listening to him play 6 or 7 songs and nothing else?
I guess my only question would be, how do you determine that he is "False, fake and pretentious" based on listening to him play 6 or 7 songs and nothing else?[/quote]
It was pretty easy really. I stood, listened and watched him perform his amatuerish dirge 'The Big Picture' and just about managed to get through it without bursting into laughter.
But you're right....I probably shouldn't form an opinion of someone so quickly. He might be the complete opposite to "false, fake and pretentious"........like Coldplay or Bono! ;)
I bought the Bright Eyes album 'Lifted...' around the time it came out, hadn't previously heard anything from him but was reading good reviews so I picked it up. No doubt, the guy was (is) sharp and talented, but at the time I thought he seemed somewhat contrived and really annoying.
I hadn't heard anything from him since then, was purposefully avoiding him, but then he teamed up with Jim. I generally like the MOF album, I think it's pretty good, not great. I even think Conor's contributions are well done, and recognize that in some ways he seems to be the strongest songwriter of the bunch.
So...I can understand how Conor's solo stuff would turn off a first time listener, and disrupt the flow of the show for a fan of MMJ or M. Ward.
Sheesh...Is there anywhere in this forum where you can express a less than positive opinion about MOF/Oberst without encountering the wrath of BH? ;D
I saw the MOF show in Oakland and absolutely loved it, but also thought Conor was boring. M. Ward, on the other hand, is amazing. Conor does absolutely nothing for me, and I can easily see how one would think he's pretentious....because he is.
Wrath! Damn. I assumed since he created a thread on a forum that he actually wanted to discuss the subject with other human beings. I TOTALLY understand that someone would not like Conor. I just don't get how you can call him false and fake after hearing him perform on a stage! What is "false" about singing a song? Do heavy metal bands actually eat babies on the weekends? Does George Thorogood drink bourbon, scotch and beer every night at the same time?
It's just too bad that Conor's "pretensioness" was sooo bad that Paulie actually left before he heard one of the greatest smokin' from shootin's that will ever be played. That's all I'm saying.
QuoteIt's just too bad that Conor's "pretensioness" was sooo bad that Paulie actually left before he heard one of the greatest smokin' from shootin's that will ever be played. That's all I'm saying.
Yeah, I agree with you on that. I feel as if that might be my biggest regret for not seeing them on tour. I've heard the Philly one and two on youtube and they were all extraordinary.
It's great that some forum members got out there together :)
QuoteIt's just too bad that Conor's "pretensioness" was sooo bad that Paulie actually left before he heard one of the greatest smokin' from shootin's that will ever be played. That's all I'm saying.
If you read my initial post it wasn't just Conor Oberst's pretentiousness that meant we left early. It was a combination of things. My opinion of the whole show was that it was pretty much like the MOF album, okay but nothing special. But I understand that people all like different things.
To be a little pedantic....you don't know if that version of Smokin' From Shootin' will be one of the greatest that will ever be played, because you don't know how many times it might be played in the future, or indeed how well it will be played.
Maybe Conor will do his own version of it that surpasses all of the others. ;D
Too bad you didn't enjoy yourself.
Moving on...
Paulie, we are somewhat in the same boat (except that I knew going in that I didn't care for M. Ward or Conor ;D so I'm fine with my decision to skip the MoF tour this time around).
Though I thought Conor acquitted himself pretty well on the Philly broadcast (M. I can take or leave), I agree that they should have mixed up the sets a bit more; when either Conor or M. did a couple of their own songs in a row, the set tended to drag IMO.
You can't help what you like! ;)
I do apologize that I get overly defensive and fly off the handle sometimes. It comes with my official fan boy badge. ::)
But at the same time, I think people should expect some sort of back and forth when they write a post about a subject in a forum.
It's all good. Some of my greatest memories of childhood involved arguing with my best friend about whether Motley Crue or Ratt was the greatest band.
If Conor was 43 and sang the exact same stuff would that make a difference? I'm honestly still trying to figure out what's false about him.
QuoteIt's just too bad that Conor's "pretensioness" was sooo bad that Paulie actually left before he heard one of the greatest smokin' from shootin's that will ever be played. That's all I'm saying.
I'd have to say that was the highlight for me, damn I love that song!
QuotePaulie, we are somewhat in the same boat (except that I knew going in that I didn't care for M. Ward or Conor ;D so I'm fine with my decision to skip the MoF tour this time around).
I thought I was the only one...whew
QuoteI do apologize that I get overly defensive and fly off the handle sometimes. It comes with my official fan boy badge. ::)
I thought you were channeling Tracy....and we all know Ratt is the greatest! Any band that can throw the Milton Berle into a video like that is #1 in my book. :P
QuotePaulie, we are somewhat in the same boat (except that I knew going in that I didn't care for M. Ward or Conor ;D so I'm fine with my decision to skip the MoF tour this time around).
Tritto. Or is it Quattro? :P
Where the hell is Ghosts? ;)
Without seeing the NYC setlist (I haven't googled it yet though), is it safe to assume that the non-MOF, non-MMJ songs that everyone played on were Ward tunes? Because they really turned me onto Ward if so.
I don't understand the "lack of chemistry" issue, but I guess I'm most surprised that the show was full of Oberst fans more than anything else.
QuoteI do apologize that I get overly defensive and fly off the handle sometimes. It comes with my official fan boy badge. ::)
But at the same time, I think people should expect some sort of back and forth when they write a post about a subject in a forum.
It's all good. Some of my greatest memories of childhood involved arguing with my best friend about whether Motley Crue or Ratt was the greatest band.
If Conor was 43 and sang the exact same stuff would that make a difference? I'm honestly still trying to figure out what's false about him.
Absolutely! A bit of "back and forth" is exactly what I would expect, otherwise what's the point of posting on a forum?
You're right, labelling someone as false after hearing them play a few songs is pre-judging someone somewhat. However, first impressions are quite often correct in my experience. I suppose what I was getting at was that hearing a successful pop star singing quite amateurish poetry like a tortured teenager, at the age of 30 or whatever he is, felt a little bit fake or false to me. It didn't feel "real" to me. It felt like he was quite cleverly tapping into the psyche of "troubled" indie kids and making a mint in the process. And as someone else said, I found him quite annoying.
But yes, I realise I am judging him on that alone, and I am being quite general in my assumptions.
No need to apologise about the debate at all. Whenever I get passionate about a debate with my wife she always says, "Don't start that student shit with me!"
But Motley Crue.....now they are fake! ;)
I thought Conor was excellent! The song with the line "since the operation I heard you're breathing just for one" (Lime Tree?) was one of the show's highlights for me.
He needs to lay off the cider though ;)
QuoteI thought Conor was excellent! The song with the line "since the operation I heard you're breathing just for one" (Lime Tree?) was one of the show's highlights for me.
He needs to lay off the cider though ;)
yea it is Lime Tree- he nailed that song at the United Palace Theater show as well
I saw these guys three time on this tour...and the one thing that keeps resonating with people on the forum is this impression that the shows are gonna be at the tempo of an MMJ show or just because JJ is in it that's going to be similiar to an MMJ show. These are two completely different bands. However when they played Smoking from Shooting I realized that Jim could play his songs with anyone and they would sound good. You have to realize from listening to the album that these are all folk songs and not really rock songs. So i'm suprised when people say that at times they were board. I mean what did you expect, M. Ward is a folk singer and troubador. JJ has a rock band but he has a folk soul as well.
Sorry for anyone who was disappointed becasue all three shows that I saw in my opinion were wonderful and even magical. If you take away the idea of what Jim does in MMJ and just let him, M. Ward, Mogis, and Conor do their thing together (MOF) what they created as a whole. The sum is greater than the indiviudal parts.
Personally, after seeing the shows I can't stop listening to the record and thinking how wonderful it was to see these guys together and what they created together. Which is a deep and layered album and live performance. Just seeing JJ playing the bass, keyboard, and signing at the same time was awsome. Not to mention M. Ward's guitar playing. He is in now way fake, false, or amiturish. He is real and he is talented.
and Mogis on the pedal steel come on..he's the man behind the man behind the man with a mandolin too.
You won't see anything like that again and it's something to be appreciated, even if it wasn't what you thought it was going to be like.
just my 2 cents
people just don't get it. either you do or you don't.
guardian.co.uk Music Web
Monsters of FolkTroxy, London
Betty Clarke guardian.co.uk,
Thursday 19 November 2009 22.15 GMT Article historyIt's their first London show, and Monsters of Folk have found their spiritual home at the Troxy. "A temple of the roaring 20s painted in the colours of the roaring 80s," says Jim James, looking around appreciatively. "A collision of excess."
The notion of four indie stalwarts reinventing the country-rock supergroup is just as fantastic and almost as garish, yet the members of MoF are deadly serious about their new guise. Dressed in sober suits, Conor Oberst and Mike Mogis of Bright Eyes, M Ward and My Morning Jacket's Jim James (or Yim Yames as he now prefers) look like an eager bunch. They sound like newcomers too; the lush harmonies of Say Please, from MoF's eponymous debut album, are overshadowed by the squawking of Ward's out-of-tune guitar.
New axe in place, Ward and his cohorts, together with Will Johnson on drums, settle into what becomes a back-catalogue rifling, genre-spanning, three-hour set. The Bright Eyes track We Are Nowhere and It's Now sees Ward's raspy experience softening Oberst's intensity, before Ward plunders his own rich vein of insight on Vincent O'Brien. James coos through MMJ's Smokin From Shootin and Bermuda Highway, and gilds Oberst's passion on Lime Tree.
Obsert is the band's hearthrob, Mogis its technician, Ward provides louche charisma and James is the voice. Still, as the spotlight shifts from talent to talent, it's difficult to see MoF as a band. When they do come together for Dear God (Sincerely MoF), a brilliant combination of Portishead and the Traveling Wilburys, the result is stunning. But these individual titans need to sublimate their successes if they're going to bond.
Quote
8. The Big Picture
Culprit identified. I'm sorry to all the fans of this song, but there's really no use for a slow, 8 minute, meandering ramble in this setlist, especially so early on. I'm sure it would work at his solo shows, but here it's just him and Mogis, and that means less Monster collaboration.
They definately need to change the state of their successes without turning them into a liquid.
QuoteWhere the hell is Ghosts? ;)
just read this thread. I got your back.
QuoteQuoteWhere the hell is Ghosts? ;)
just read this thread. I got your back.
Well I'm glad I wasn't in real fight. I've been lying in a ditch with two broken ribs bleeding out thru my face for several days now. ;)