I was thinking of this the other day when talking to a fellow Spoon fan about how mad they were that Spoon was selling out 1,000 capacity clubs now. They went on and on about seeing them before Gax5 and whatnot (all because the show they wanted to see soldout). Plus, back in the day, if you would go to Saddle Creek's message board and ask a simple question about Oberst, The Faint or Cursive, people would jump down your throat...however, MMJ fans don't seem to act like that. 99% are always offering suggestions on where to start to listen and offer welcome to new fans when they introduce themselves on the forum...back at the 9:30 Club in '06, a fan came up to me and asked me about MMJ, as he had only heard "it still moves" a week prior and came to check them out...he left saying he was going to get every album they made. Try that at a Bright Eyes show...and, well...no need to explain.
my question: why the big difference in reaction? Are Saddle Creek bands so "indie" outsiders are not allowed in? Or is it just something else. The vibe around MMJ and their fans is much different.
We generally only attack one another... newbies are always welcome.
First: there's way too much love on this forum--thanks to this band and their beautiful music--for anyone to want to hate on any new "recruit". Sure there's good natured ribbing but you can expect that when a forum feels like home and your fellow users feel like kin.
Second: we here actually want this band to be successful and huge. This is reflected in the rabid competition for Street Team promo packages--everone wants to help promote these guys. Plus, whenever they get a new, bigger spot everyone gets psyched, like when they were opening huge arenas with Pearl Jam or playing the Edgefest with the Boston Pops orchestra.
Welcome home--we like it here ;)
At both Bright Eyes concerts I've been to, most everyone acts like they are better than everyone else because they like Bright Eyes the most. The same applies for all the big Bright Eyes fans I've known over the past several years. It's some sort of weird elitist crap that I just don't like.
I just don't see that here.
QuoteAt both Bright Eyes concerts I've been to, most everyone acts like they are better than everyone else because they like Bright Eyes the most. The same applies for all the big Bright Eyes fans I've known over the past several years. It's some sort of weird elitist crap that I just don't like.
I just don't see that here.
Exactly. At the 3 shows for Bright Eyes I've been to, it feels like everyone has their eyes on everyone else thinking "I bet they didn't listen until 'I'm Wide Awake...' or 'The OC is the only reason they are here.'
The only time that didn't happen was back on the Monsters of Folk Tour...At the Pittsburgh show, there seemed to be a lot of Jim fans there and no elitist attitudes.
I went to a Bright Eyes performance, once. I left after about 8 minutes... and even though I have most of his albums, I haven't voluntarily listened to a single track since. I dunno, as I was sitting there listening to him drone on, I realized I didn't like him, his voice, or what he had to say.
But yeah, MMJ concerts have their share of assholes... I remember Alan and I had to kick some nuts at Rites of Spring '05 to meet up with the other vikings.
Remember though, Brad-- Rites of Spring was held at Vanderbilt, which is Frat-asshole center of Nashville. Sorry if anyone here is going to or has gone there, but after taking two years at Belmont, Vandy's definitely the "too rich to care" party crowd. That said, Rites of Spring, while having incredible lineups year after year, is exclusive to Vandy-- serious discounts on student tickets and all. Kind of exclusively invites that crowd to the shows then. A lot of drunk fratters who don't give half a shit about the bands playing but want to maintain some sort of "status" by acting like they've enjoyed the bands there.
Showcase shows are generally more give and take, but I've never had a bad time at an MMJ-headed show.
QuoteI went to a Bright Eyes performance, once. I left after about 8 minutes... and even though I have most of his albums, I haven't voluntarily listened to a single track since. I dunno, as I was sitting there listening to him drone on, I realized I didn't like him, his voice, or what he had to say.
I understand completly...I'm from Omaha originally, same as he is. I know where he grew up and went to school and his sure as hell was a nicer upbringing then mine. I always found him to just be ultra pretencious and I never could believe him because of that. My nephew had a total mancrush on him for the longest time, but now can barely stand him. He hates him now for the reason someone mentioned. The hipsters that are into him are judgemental and are trying to be too hip for their own good. I'm not saying every fan of his is like that, but a good portion from what I've seen.
I think the reason most people here are friendly to newbies for the most part they come in being nice. Act nice you get treated nice. Act like a smarmy know it all arse, well.....
I dont post on here much, but I read everyday and make sure to get caught up. I love downloading the shows, and reading the opinions. I will tell you this... I also check a KU sports message board and it is full of jackasses. It really blows my mind how ignorant and stupid people can be who like the same thing I do. They constantly attack each other and I once was emailed directly for one comment I made. (It wasnt kind) I honestly belive this forum is better because of the overall intelligence of the people on it. It nice to be able to read the views and opinions of fellow My Morning Jacket fans. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to everyone.
QuoteI dont post on here much, but I read everyday and make sure to get caught up. I love downloading the shows, and reading the opinions. I will tell you this... I also check a KU sports message board and it is full of jackasses. It really blows my mind how ignorant and stupid people can be who like the same thing I do. They constantly attack each other and I once was emailed directly for one comment I made. (It wasnt kind) I honestly belive this forum is better because of the overall intelligence of the people on it. It nice to be able to read the views and opinions of fellow My Morning Jacket fans. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to everyone.
Nice post Wardog :)
totally agree, this place is really great and really helpful. been to a couple other boards and nothing even comes close. i am here to stay and will not let a couple people (you know who you are(actually i think its just one, sorry to anyone i may have pissed off before)) ruin it for me.
I will admit to being annoyed by the bombardment of newbies today, all asking for a copy of the CD. I'm talking about the people who (at 4 am Monday) have a grand total of maybe 6 posts.
It may not have been that many but I'm going to blow it way out of proportion for arguments sake.
Something big happens and they just crawl out of the wood work.
Sorry if I come across as an jerk here, I'm tired.
i have only posted a few times on the board, but felt totally welcomed as a newbie. I think it may depend on the board. I am on a phish board and felt totally welcomed, but i am also on a soul/jazz/hiphop/digging board and felt totally shat on as a newbie so i dont post as much as i do lurk
Quotei have only posted a few times on the board, but felt totally welcomed as a newbie. I think it may depend on the board. I am on a phish board and felt totally welcomed, but i am also on a soul/jazz/hiphop/digging board and felt totally shat on as a newbie so i dont post as much as i do lurk
Igbo: Phantasy Tour?
QuoteQuoteI went to a Bright Eyes performance, once. I left after about 8 minutes... and even though I have most of his albums, I haven't voluntarily listened to a single track since. I dunno, as I was sitting there listening to him drone on, I realized I didn't like him, his voice, or what he had to say.
I understand completly...I'm from Omaha originally, same as he is. I know where he grew up and went to school and his sure as hell was a nicer upbringing then mine. I always found him to just be ultra pretencious and I never could believe him because of that. My nephew had a total mancrush on him for the longest time, but now can barely stand him. He hates him now for the reason someone mentioned. The hipsters that are into him are judgemental and are trying to be too hip for their own good. I'm not saying every fan of his is like that, but a good portion from what I've seen.
I think the reason most people here are friendly to newbies for the most part they come in being nice. Act nice you get treated nice. Act like a smarmy know it all arse, well.....
i thought he was really annoying and pretentious at bonnaroo (was it 2006?) when jim and Super furry animal (and possibly gillian welch?) were on stage with him? i can't remember exactly, but i will never go to one of his shows because he comes across as one of these liberal elitest snobs that lives in the village and criticizes everything and spends thousands of dollars trying to look and live the 'vintage' lifestyle. oh and other than digital ash and lift your ears..blah blah..i don't like his music
QuoteI will admit to being annoyed by the bombardment of newbies today, all asking for a copy of the CD. I'm talking about the people who (at 4 am Monday) have a grand total of maybe 6 posts.
It may not have been that many but I'm going to blow it way out of proportion for arguments sake.
Something big happens and they just crawl out of the wood work.
Sorry if I come across as an jerk here, I'm tired.
I said the same thing somewhere else and got heat for it...
...but it feels good knowing I'm not the only one who isn't afraid to say it.
QuoteQuoteI went to a Bright Eyes performance, once. I left after about 8 minutes... and even though I have most of his albums, I haven't voluntarily listened to a single track since. I dunno, as I was sitting there listening to him drone on, I realized I didn't like him, his voice, or what he had to say.
i thought he was really annoying and pretentious at bonnaroo (was it 2006?)
Funny you say that... because that was the performance I was speaking of. I was one of the few dozen people who got up and left after the first one or two songs... nice meeting you, Penny!
I am a newbie to this forum as you all can tell.
I found nothing but good vibes here and so far, decent folks!
By the way thanks for having me.
:)
i remember catching some sh*t on here when i first started, but oh well...got over it and looked at it as a rite of passage.
this board is so much better than the Rock Band video game board i frequent...people there are major a$$holes!
yeah, i caught some shit when I first joined up as well. it used to be worse when john conaway was around. i know some of you still love him but he was not very nice to newbies and all his hangers-on followed suit. That's one of the reasons that I try to be helpful to newbies. I don't understand people who want like-minded people to feel unwelcome.
I've definitely "hated" on some people in the past, but never because they were new or ignorant in the ways of the jacket. we all have to start somewhere. and I have no hard feelings towards anyone on this board and love the atmosphere here for the most part. I know some people here hate me, but I can live with that.
I'm a big Bright Eyes fan and I'm not an asshole. ...or am I? [smiley=evil.gif]
Quote...elitest snobs that lives in the village and criticizes everything and spends thousands of dollars trying to look and live the 'vintage' lifestyle.
yes, exactly what I was thinking.
I never used to post on this board just b/c all the other boards I had ever seen would jump on anyone for anything as mundane as a misspelling to just they plain don't want you in their territory. I've never encountered that here. I had to get talked into it by my good buddy aMD b/c I was so used to negative forums but everyone here is really welcoming.
and y'all obviously like good music, so...
Yeah, listening to Obert's mumbling about who we should vote for gets very, very old. He makes money -- I don't...why should I vote for who he says...we don't live the same life...and as others stated--he wants us to think he does....plus, he points out stuff that is wrong without offering any advice on how to fix things...oh, and I am a Bright Eyes fan, but lost a lot of interest after Cassadaga...bored out of my mind...
so, yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with the way the artists act as well...their fans take on their attitude sometimes and think they are them...if that makes any sense.
This forum is the only one I check regularly...I have been on the saddle-creek board for like 5 years and have 10 posts...(hartbr8k1d if anyone else is on that board).
QuoteYeah, listening to Obert's mumbling about who we should vote for gets very, very old. He makes money -- I don't...why should I vote for who he says...we don't live the same life...and as others stated--he wants us to think he does....plus, he points out stuff that is wrong without offering any advice on how to fix things...oh, and I am a Bright Eyes fan, but lost a lot of interest after Cassadaga...bored out of my mind...
so, yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with the way the artists act as well...their fans take on their attitude sometimes and think they are them...if that makes any sense.
This forum is the only one I check regularly...I have been on the saddle-creek board for like 5 years and have 10 posts...(hartbr8k1d if anyone else is on that board).
I am. And you are right, it sucks hard.
I don't post that often on here either but any communication I've actually had with other members has always been positive. Good vibes all around for the most part. Plus, I love getting turned on to new music by other members. I get a real sense of enlightenment almost on a daily basis. Thanks to everyone for always making me feel welcome! :D
I think that there is something to that statement, "the fans want to take on the attitude of the artist" kinda thing. Every message board has a different vibe, because it's filled with people who are passionate about the music, the sports team or whatever and are thus on the "same vibe" ---if that made any sense.
Tool Army - Lots of kind, intelligent, shit talking, witty assholes (just like Maynard)
Saddle Creek - (from what I gather) - pretentious know-it-all's (Kinda like conor)
Bonnaroo Forum - Jam Band lovers, got stories of "Killer herb" and favorite Phish shows (Kinda like what the fest promotes ...or use to. Metallica '08!!
MMJ - Beautiful, kind and sharing human beings who get lost in the music and just want to share their love for life with the world (kinda like Jim, Carl, Bo, Pat and Tommy)
anyway - bands bring out a certain type of people - MMJ just happens to be a loving type.
I wonder what the Lil' Kim forums are like?
QuoteI wonder what the Lil' Kim forums are like?
http://www.lilkim.com/message.html
QuoteI'm a big Bright Eyes fan and I'm not an asshole. ...or am I? [smiley=evil.gif]
At least you are a lovable one! ;)
QuoteQuoteI wonder what the Lil' Kim forums are like?
http://www.lilkim.com/message.html
Here's an actual post from that forum, couldn't make this shit up:
HEY JAMICA,I THINK U NEEDS TO HUSH YO MOUTH.ALOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS HERE MESSAGE BOARD IS NOT FEELIN U GIR,I THINK U NEEDS TO START SAYIN THE WRIGHT THANG G,THAT'S ON THE REAL..KEEP YO LIL SMART ASS COMMENTS TO YO SELF.FO SHO U DIG?HOLLA
Chitown fo life, it's a Mid West thang.
;D ;D ;D
QuoteQuoteQuoteI wonder what the Lil' Kim forums are like?
http://www.lilkim.com/message.html
Here's an actual post from that forum, couldn't make this shit up:
HEY JAMICA,I THINK U NEEDS TO HUSH YO MOUTH.ALOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS HERE MESSAGE BOARD IS NOT FEELIN U GIR,I THINK U NEEDS TO START SAYIN THE WRIGHT THANG G,THAT'S ON THE REAL..KEEP YO LIL SMART ASS COMMENTS TO YO SELF.FO SHO U DIG?HOLLA
Chitown fo life, it's a Mid West thang.
;D ;D ;D
Brilliant!
God....I love this board! ;D
That is hilarious!!! ;D
Just doing my job, Ma'am.
QuoteJust doing my job, Ma'am.
SO THAT'S YOUR POST? THAT'S ON THE REAL? HOLLA!
I see I found another BITCH made NIGGA.What fuccing song is you talkin about, not once have I heard a song that she is talikng about aids. BITCH ASS NIGGA PLEASE!!! She need to find your ass and put a hit out on you , for even listening to a rumor that is not true!!!!!!!!!
Oh, wait... are we just copy and pasting insults from the Lil Kim forum?
sounds good to me:
baby u dont tell me what the fuck to do i can say wat ever i want bitch!!!! you dont fuckin no me at all so "SHUT UP BITCH" with ur hatin ass i cant believe u even got time to hate !!! do somethin with ur life u got too much time on ur hands!!!
BYTCH STOP HATIN U PROBABLY UGLY AS HELL N FAT WIT NO ASS TITIES N STRECH MARKS U A INTERNET GANGSTA IM NOT GONE EVEN ARGUE YOUR DONE UGLY BYTCH
;D
You hatin hoes just wish you could be her and get the niggas that she have beat bitches ass like she have. Tel me, how is it enough room in yall mouth(im talikn to da haters and foxy fans)wit all the sloppy dicks yall suck. Fuckin hatin ass hoes. You bitches wish yall had money like her, just to get a ass and ya fuckin face done.
Damn, that's funny. ;D
Someone please respond to one of those post and mention that microsoft word has spellcheck. I just really want to see the responses.
This might be the best one I've read on there:
"hi little kim i hate u"
That sums it up! :)
QuoteThis might be the best one I've read on there:
"hi little kim i hate u"
That sums it up! :)
Yeah, that really might be the best thing ever typed on the internet. What was her user name?........ "str8hateher"?
Quote"hi little kim i hate u"
Awesome.
QuoteQuote"hi little kim i hate u"
Awesome.
i like how professional they are...
no bitch you are the ugly one why u gotta be a fucking hater bitch is it because your lame ass can't buy shit you weak ass hoe o my bad were the fuck your album at sick chick see i hate a nothing ass hoe like you,you live of welfare don't you can you even spell chanel#5 bitch get it right i wish kim was out cuz i'd help her beat your ass matter fact bitch beat your feet and i said it lil mama l's from dc!
wow....I consider myself pretty open and laaaaid back. But shit, I couldn't even read these. I couldn't understand a word of it. Was that English? god my head hurts now.
oh and I hate u 2 lil kim.
QuoteQuoteQuote"hi little kim i hate u"
Awesome.
i like how professional they are...
no bitch you are the ugly one why u gotta be a fucking hater bitch is it because your lame ass can't buy shit you weak ass hoe o my bad were the fuck your album at sick chick see i hate a nothing ass hoe like you,you live of welfare don't you can you even spell chanel#5 bitch get it right i wish kim was out cuz i'd help her beat your ass matter fact bitch beat your feet and i said it lil mama l's from dc!
I almost need a translator.
"cuz i'd help her beat your ass matter fact bitch beat your feet"
What does that even mean?!
"cuz i'd help her beat your ass matter fact bitch beat your feet"
it just rhymes.
looks like "whitey" is stealing the lil' kim forum too. god people, when are you going to stop???? ;D ;D
i would love to hear james lipton read these threads. that would fucking rock!
Quotelooks like "whitey" is stealing the lil' kim forum too. god people, when are you going to stop???? ;D ;D
i would love to hear james lipton read these threads. that would fucking rock!
You just got the cookie! ;D
Quotelooks like "whitey" is stealing the lil' kim forum too. god people, when are you going to stop???? ;D ;D
i would love to hear james lipton read these threads. that would fucking rock!
oh my god :o ;D
I blame this guy (whom I am sick of, btw)
(http://www.tvrobot.com/images/flava-flav-knicks.jpg)
I blame myself.
I blame coco.
http://www.myspace.com/iblamecoco
This whole forum needs to be like the lil kim one. Maybe I'd like some of you bitches.
QuoteThis whole forum needs to be like the lil kim one. Maybe I'd like some of you bitches.
We need to ask CC to give us a board for freestyle battles.
we need this, more than ever, to wash away the lil-kimmness-skank-ho-vibeage,
a sorbet to the skull to cleanse the cranium, so to speak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONZ9bL2WGBE
Quotewe need this, more than ever, to wash away the lil-kimmness-skank-ho-vibeage,
a sorbet to the skull to cleanse the cranium, so to speak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONZ9bL2WGBE
You are my personal hero.
QuoteThis whole forum needs to be like the lil kim one. Maybe I'd like some of you bitches.
whoz uz callz bitchz hoz! iz popz az capz inz yoz azz uz fuckinz haterz! uz probably gotz 14 kidz by 29 difernt guyz internetz playa! shitz
QuoteQuoteThis whole forum needs to be like the lil kim one. Maybe I'd like some of you bitches.
whoz uz callz bitchz hoz! iz popz az capz inz yoz azz uz fuckinz haterz! uz probably gotz 14 kidz by 29 difernt guyz internetz playa! shitz
True dat!
My short term memory is so bad, I'll probably swing back to this thread tomorrow and be like, "Who the fuck are all of these racists?"
;D
I still consider myself a newbie board-wise but moreso in the department of actually conversing. I have been interested in the discussions that take place here ever since I joined last year.
Needs ta werk on dem damn soshul skillz!
That being said, thanks for the support of all who I have mildly came in contact with! I hope to partake in much more in the future and am looking forward to maybe meeting some of you all this summer!!! Cheers! [smiley=beer.gif]
QuoteI still consider myself a newbie board-wise but moreso in the department of actually conversing. I have been interested in the discussions that take place here ever since I joined last year.
Needs ta werk on dem damn soshul skillz!
That being said, thanks for the support of all who I have mildly came in contact with! I hope to partake in much more in the future and am looking forward to maybe meeting some of you all this summer!!! Cheers! [smiley=beer.gif]
next time we'll meet up for continental breakfast in denver! 8-)
QuoteQuoteQuoteThis whole forum needs to be like the lil kim one. Maybe I'd like some of you bitches.
whoz uz callz bitchz hoz! iz popz az capz inz yoz azz uz fuckinz haterz! uz probably gotz 14 kidz by 29 difernt guyz internetz playa! shitz
True dat!
Break yoself! [smiley=evil.gif]
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThis whole forum needs to be like the lil kim one. Maybe I'd like some of you bitches.
whoz uz callz bitchz hoz! iz popz az capz inz yoz azz uz fuckinz haterz! uz probably gotz 14 kidz by 29 difernt guyz internetz playa! shitz
True dat!
Break yoself! [smiley=evil.gif]
We've got to have one of those "Yo Mama" battles at Jacketfest this year! The loser gets pelted with peeps!
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThis whole forum needs to be like the lil kim one. Maybe I'd like some of you bitches.
whoz uz callz bitchz hoz! iz popz az capz inz yoz azz uz fuckinz haterz! uz probably gotz 14 kidz by 29 difernt guyz internetz playa! shitz
True dat!
Break yoself! [smiley=evil.gif]
We've got to have one of those "Yo Mama" battles at Jacketfest this year! The loser gets pelted with peeps!
or spend the night in the same camper with the crazy guy....you know, angry ewok's dad.
Nice.
Quoteyeah, i caught some shit when I first joined up as well. it used to be worse when john conaway was around. i know some of you still love him but he was not very nice to newbies and all his hangers-on followed suit. That's one of the reasons that I try to be helpful to newbies. I don't understand people who want like-minded people to feel unwelcome.
I've definitely "hated" on some people in the past, but never because they were new or ignorant in the ways of the jacket. we all have to start somewhere. and I have no hard feelings towards anyone on this board and love the atmosphere here for the most part. I know some people here hate me, but I can live with that.
You know, coming back here after "retiring" was my choice, but goddamn if this just doesn't royally suck monster ass. Really man? All this time has gone by, and still you want to hate on me? I let the door hit me in the ass on the way out, and what, a year or so has gone by, and still the hate? Fuck you man. What a petty, arrogant little shit of man you are, holding on to "hating" on some anonymous internet screen name. Jesus H. Fucking Christ.
And to clear my screen name, I don't recall hating on newbies in any particular way that wouldn't be construed as normal internetting or joking, and in fact, hosted an FTP site for quite some time and welcomed all comers to download live shows under the direction of the band. So there goes that part of your "theory".
QuoteQuoteyeah, i caught some shit when I first joined up as well. it used to be worse when john conaway was around. i know some of you still love him but he was not very nice to newbies and all his hangers-on followed suit. That's one of the reasons that I try to be helpful to newbies. I don't understand people who want like-minded people to feel unwelcome.
I've definitely "hated" on some people in the past, but never because they were new or ignorant in the ways of the jacket. we all have to start somewhere. and I have no hard feelings towards anyone on this board and love the atmosphere here for the most part. I know some people here hate me, but I can live with that.
You know, coming back here after "retiring" was my choice, but goddamn if this just doesn't royally suck monster ass. Really man? All this time has gone by, and still you want to hate on me? I let the door hit me in the ass on the way out, and what, a year or so has gone by, and still the hate? Fuck you man. What a petty, arrogant little shit of man you are, holding on to "hating" on some anonymous internet screen name. Jesus H. Fucking Christ.
And to clear my screen name, I don't recall hating on newbies in any particular way that wouldn't be construed as normal internetting or joking, and in fact, hosted an FTP site for quite some time and welcomed all comers to download live shows under the direction of the band. So there goes that part of your "theory".
welcome back, john. sounds to me like you're the one holding on to hate. I didn't personally attack you as you did me. I just stated a fact. What you refer to "internetting and joking" others call "hating on newbies". This thread is about how this "normal" internet practice doesn't really happen here (since you left) and how people are grateful for that. I simply, accurately pointed out that this wasn't always the case here. It's not a coincidence that new members since your "retirement" have felt welcome while those of us who have been here a while report being hated on as a newbie. I don't care to be goaded into a fight with you so I will not stoop to your level by lodging personal attacks. Thanks for showing everyone what we are "missing" by not having you around anymore.
Love,
Dylan Greenwood.
:)
i actually know john conaway.
in real life.
and i know he's an all around great guy.
and i know he never hated on newbies.
dylan greenwood, you...
you can be full of shit sometimes.
well, at least on this board.
i don't actually know you.
in real life.
maybe you're an all around great guy too.
this is not a poem.
a doo-wop song. maybe.
doo-wop shoo-bop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XMLz4crg_s
Quotei actually know john conaway.
in real life.
and i know he's an all around great guy.
and i know he never hated on newbies.
dylan greenwood, you...
you can be full of shit sometimes.
well, at least on this board.
i don't actually know you.
in real life.
maybe you're an all around great guy too.
this is not a poem.
a doo-wop song. maybe.
doo-wop shoo-bop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XMLz4crg_s
consider me retired.
if anyone else would like to organize jacketfest or update the tabs site you can email me at hermeshat@hotmail.com
I've had enough of this bullshit.
fine
i guess i can close this
if anyone wants to continue the original discussion,
just start a new thread called 'no hating on newbies', or 'doo-wop-shoo-bop'