dont get me wrong, i really do love the beatles, but im always amazed at how theyre perceived as the most influential band ever. in my never ending quest in musical nerdom and undying opinion mongering, i have a list who i think are more influential. add more, tear mine apart, etc etc
beach boys
velvet underground
pixies
gang of four
joy division
miles davis
kraftwerk
any krautrock especially can & faust
sonic youth
led zeppelin
pink floyd (both syd & waters version)
im sure ill keep thinking of more. any other ideas out there?
Interesting thoughts. Very personal and very subjective.
Some of mine
John Coltrane
Frank Zappa
John Mayall
Alexis Korner
Hendrix
The Clash
wordawg
Very good question ratsprayer.
Here are a few (and I'm sure I left some out)
U2
Zeppelin
The Clash
David Bowie
Talking Heads
The Smiths
The Pixies
(I wouldn't say these are MORE influential...but at least at the same level of influence as the beatles.)
Nirvana influenced a lot of bands that are playing these days.
QuoteNirvana influenced a lot of bands that are playing these days.
Oh, right. Didn't they make that 'nevermind' album? I don't think that ever took off :)
QuoteNirvana influenced a lot of bands that are playing these days.
i was going to add them, but i decided not to, only because kurt himself said they were derivative of sonic youth & pixies. i suppose you can take any band and trace them back to mozart with enough steps though. :D
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i was going to add them, but i decided not to, only because kurt himself said they were derivative of sonic youth & pixies. i suppose you can take any band and trace them back to mozart with enough steps though. :D
Then you've gotta wonder....who influenced Mozart?
yes, talking heads. good one, i knew id forget something obvious. the smiths, love 'em or hate 'em, are probably the band most influential over the whole scope of modern music, at least i think.
who could forget dylan? and neil fucking young!
james brown
parliament
robert johnson
the band
(yes I know, JB and Robert Johnson aren't bands. Though it would be cool to name a band "robert Johnson")
Quoteyes, talking heads. good one, i knew id forget something obvious. the smiths, love 'em or hate 'em, are probably the band most influential over the whole scope of modern music, at least i think.
who could forget dylan? and neil fucking young!
Good call! who else are we leaving out? I'm gonna dive into a little metal:
Ac/dc
Metallica (st. anger sucked though)
Black Sabbath
and...could GnR be counted?
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Then you've gotta wonder....who influenced Mozart?
I think that was JS Bach... but who influenced Bach?
ok i forgot a huge huge huge one, and thats brian eno.
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I think that was JS Bach... but who influenced Bach?
Is it...the time period? Is it the time period in which he was living in? ???
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I think that was JS Bach... but who influenced Bach?
I'm trying to avoid studying, so I looked this up. According to AllMusic, it was organist Dietrich Buxtehude, who was, in turn, influenced by his father, also an organist.
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I'm trying to avoid studying, so I looked this up. According to AllMusic, it was organist Dietrich Buxtehude, who was, in turn, influenced by his father, also an organist.
Wow, you just blew my mind :o
Yeah, so it all goes back to Dietrich Buxtehude's father. That was one cool cat. No pics of Dietrich's dad, but here's Dietrich:
(http://image.allmusic.com/00/acg/pic200/drz000%5Cz053%5Cz05383cjliv.jpg)
The Who
Robert Johnson
Sonic Youth
Neil Young
Bob Dylan
Son House
The Flaming Lips
Led Zep
Joy Division
Suicide
Chuck Berry
the "neo folk" scene made me think of one - nick drake.
excellent shit.
John Phillip Sousa. Any ragtime composer you can think of...as ragtime begat boogie woogie, which begat jazz and the blues, which begat country and then rock n' roll.
It all really started with Mozart, IMHO. He really created "popular" music, per se.
But as for bands/musicians as or more influential than the Beatles....here's my list:
Booker T and the MG's
Neil Young
Led Zeppelin
Galaxie 500
Johnny Cash
Jeff Beck
Stevie Wonder
gasp! we didn't even mention Tom Waits!
leonard cohen
john fahey
Muddy Waters
Willie Dixon
Howlin' Wolf
The Stones
Christy Moore
Planxty
Carla Bley
Carlos Santana
Amon Duul
Ramones
Waylon Jennings
Willie Nelson
Guy Clark
Townes van Zandt
Television
this one might run and run (in my head)
wordawg
oh yeah, we forgot Dylan....
Who's the dude who wrote most of the music for hymns? That dude was pretty influential. (Actually, come to think of it, a lot of those are based on medieval songs...) Actually, all the old country songs (and the form) is based on the old traditionals, which hymns were also based on, which are based on medieval dirges and stuff, and then... damn those monks burning all the damn books. They could've made our lives a LOT easier if they'd just THOUGHT about what they were goddamn doing. So much of Western music is based on the chromatic scale. But the medieval stuff was based on the.. what, pentatonic scale? Is that right? (I'm flying on half memories right now.) And then there's all the ancient eastern music, which is so differently based.
And then there's prehistoric drumming. Drumming - was that the first form of music? Isn't the word prehistoric ridiculous? I never thought of that.
What is the Disney movie that talks about all this.. is that Fantasia, or is there a different one... hmmm... now I'm all thinky. I want to remember, though, as opposed to fucking looking it up on the internet. I think the internet is ruining my memory. Because I no longer HAVE to remember, my brain doesn't seem to have a problem forgetting.
Four names that were WAY more influencial then the Beatles:
The Carter Family
Woody Guthrie
Leadbelly
Ramblin' Jack Elliot
Interesting site: http://www.classicalscore.com/
ohohh...guthrie, good one. there goes the deconstrution of dylan...
(http://www.kentuckythings.com/mymorningjacket/images/oldband.jpg)
"The Pharoah 'nuffs", the world's most influential band, pictured above with the original lineup.
Introduced two-part harmonies, revolving drummers, incessant infighting and groupies to the world of popular music. Also noted for their incendiary live performances. No recordings have ever been found, presumably because the aliens that built the pyramids took the technology with them when they parted for bigger planets.
Tablets found in caves often gave glowing reviews of their shows, frequently using terms like "passionate", "kickass", "compelling" and "genius" to describe the stage frenzy. Also credited with the first "soul chubby", a phenomena that faded from history until being rediscovered in the year 2005 AD.
Quote(http://www.kentuckythings.com/mymorningjacket/images/oldband.jpg)
"The Pharoah 'nuffs", the world's most influential band, pictured above with the original lineup.
Introduced two-part harmonies, revolving drummers, incessant infighting and groupies to the world of popular music. Also noted for their incendiary live performances. No recordings have ever been found, presumably because the aliens that built the pyramids took the technology with them when they parted for bigger planets.
Tablets found in caves often gave glowing reviews of their shows, frequently using terms like "passionate", "kickass", "compelling" and "genius" to describe the stage frenzy. Also credited with the first "soul chubby", a phenomena that remained undiscovered until the year 2005 AD.
HAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAH!!!! Very nice expose'. Could you do a 'behind the music' type thing? ya know..."Onstage, the Pharoah Nuffs were at an alltime high...but offstage, things were falling apart". :)
i doubt that there is ever going to be one band/singer/composer/artist who is going to be the most influential. rock and roll has been around for only, and almost exactly, 50 years. would we claim that the beatles are the most influential -- but disregard the centuries of music that came before it? every seminal musical artist has had its own influences; therefore, would the bands that influenced the beatles the most be more influential than the beatles? i mean, had the bands that influenced the beatles never existed, would the beatles ever formed to become, what most would recognize, the most influential pop/rock and roll band ever?
it seems that i'm getting into an ontological discussion here... rather reminiscent of aquinas and his contention of a primary mover. the most previous post reminds of this, while being rather appropriate in its, err, tongue-in-cheekedness.
i'd be hardpressed to find a more impactful musical artist than the beatles. they shaped not only the musical scene but also popular culture. lest we forget elvis. then again, elvis was a white man's black man. elvis was merely more palatable but no more talented than, say, many of the prolific blues artists (read: memphis slim).
so, if we're talking about one artist, contemporarily speaking, it would have to be the beatles. if it's a broader stroke we're painting, it would have to be, in my opinion, gospel and blues from the late 30s, 40s, and early 50s. let's face it, there would be no rock and roll if it had been left to the white man.
my list, in no specific order:
beatles
bob dylan
velvet underground
elvis presley
beach boys
chuck berry
carl perkins
aretha franklin
nirvana
Bob Dylan is the most influential artist of the past 50 years, hands down. Dylan not only influenced rock n roll, he influenced blues, country, folk, and gospel not to mention his influence on other art forms such as film and poetry. Dylan's influence is so essential to all modern artwork that we may overlook it. Even if you have never heard Highway 61 Revisited all the way through, someone who you enjoy listening to did. Most people say the Beatles are the most influential but it was Dylan who directly influence them to focus on the music and forget the teenyboppers. There are a ton of influential bands I could name but no one would hold a candle to Bob Dylan.
Quotemy list, in no specific order:
beatles
bob dylan
velvet underground
elvis presley
beach boys
chuck berry
carl perkins
aretha franklin
nirvana
That is a list I would agree with. I would also agree with whoever said The Carter Family. And I would add Hank Williams.
And bigbang, your pharoa'nuffs is brilliant. BRILLIANT. :)
QuoteBob Dylan is the most influential artist of the past 50 years, hands down.
i'm not sure that there is a "hands down" musical artist that is the most influential. also, we can define "influential" in many different ways. there is absolutely no question that the beatles are more impactful in popular culture. and let's face it, we live in a popular culture, umm, culture. look at the top 40 for the last 20 to 30 years. like it or not, the top 40 is more attributable to the beatles than to bob dylan. i wish it were otherwise, but it's just not the case.
furthermore, i'm guessing that you're white. while we would hope that bob dylan's music transcends race, dylan's music is primarily that of the white person. popular music today is much more influenced by jazz, soul, and rhythym and blues. arguably, there are three large branches of popular music: country, rab/r&b/soul (that's a huge swath), and pop. 2 of those 3 are largely directly derived from early jazz and soul from the 30s, 40s, and 50s.
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HAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAH!!!! Very nice expose'. Could you do a 'behind the music' type thing? ya know..."Onstage, the Pharoah Nuffs were at an alltime high...but offstage, things were falling apart". :)
We don't really want to "unearth" all that sordid stuff do we?
Of course, membership changed for centuries, keeping the act alive almost as long as the Rolling Stones, rumored to have finally ended only when one of the pharoahs, a true fan boy, decided he wanted the band serenading him for all eternity. When the king died, the entire band was sealed in an ante-chamber to his tomb.
Alas, in the fog of history, it is not known under which pyramid they all reside.
one just came to mind
captain beefheart & the magic band
MORE influential is a tough one.
You could argue that without the Beatles there would be no Pixies & then of course, no Nirvana etc?
Not sure...
For example, Black Sabbath is on the list but any BS fan worth their salt knows that the Beatles were the reason Ozzy started making music.
I do agree with most of the bands/artists already mentioned but I think the list has become more of influential artists list rather than more influential than the Beatles?
Anyway, great thread, Ratsprayer - really got me thinking!
Here are a few names that I think have been missed:
Billie Holiday
Nina Simone
Woody Gutherie
Bob Marley
The Stone Roses
yeah baby! black sabbath! loves me some "war pigs"...
some others I just thought of...
Hank Williams
Elvis
Bob Marley
David Bowie
BB King
Muddy Waters
Fats Domino
The Everly Brothers
well since carl perkins directly inspired john lennon to start his skiffle group The Quarry Men which later became the beatles AND since Dylan inspired lennon to change the motivation of the band towards solid music making, i'd say that carl perkins and bob dylan are at the top of the influential list. perkins also had a big hand in the career of johnny cash and he WROTE blue suede shoes for christ's sake. an then there's zeppelin who inspired (either way, whether you think negatively or positively) the nwobhm (new wave of british heavy metal)so that'd be my bare bones list focused directly on pop music
carl perkins
bob dylan
led zeppelin
Husker Du.
American pop/punk before Nirvana blew it up. Husker Du influenced all that stuff past 1985. You can hear actual note to note influences on Pearl Jam and Smashing Pumpkins songs, plus a ton of others.
Bob Mould, Grant Hart, Greg Norton= Husker Du
Buy---> Zen Arcade
o wait yeah getting on ycartrob's husker du trip, husker du was the direct influence for the pixies, who fueled the ENTIRE alternative scene in the 90's and today
Quotewell since carl perkins directly inspired john lennon to start his skiffle group The Quarry Men which later became the beatles AND since Dylan inspired lennon to change the motivation of the band towards solid music making, i'd say that carl perkins and bob dylan are at the top of the influential list. perkins also had a big hand in the career of johnny cash and he WROTE blue suede shoes for christ's sake. an then there's zeppelin who inspired (either way, whether you think negatively or positively) the nwobhm (new wave of british heavy metal)so that'd be my bare bones list focused directly on pop music
carl perkins
bob dylan
led zeppelin
Yes, but it goes like this for Bob Dylan:
Leadbelly inspired by/copies unknown early country blues artists;Woody Guthrie inspired by/copies Leadbelly; Jack Elliot inspired by/copies Wood Guthrie; Dylan inspired by/copies Woody Guthrie & Jack Elliot.
Dylan is a con-artist adn a very good one at that.
Also, I would say that Jimmie Rogers made modern country music, inspiring Hank Williams, Carl Perkins, Johnny Cash.
So, there you go...
Bob Dylan may have followed in folkies footsteps, but they did not write his lyrics. To say Bob Dylan is a con artist is a bit shallow, considering all the unbelievable lyrics he has written (IMO).
yeah i forgot about dylan's whole con artist approach...he duped me again! oh bob...
y[glb]TEXT[/glb]
doeslittle said it better
Bob Dylan cons me everytime I hear It Allright ma I'm Only Bleeding. he's been doing it for 30 years now, sly dog.
so how exactly do you highlight text in gray? ???
QuoteBob Dylan may have followed in folkies footsteps, but they did not write his lyrics. To say Bob Dylan is a con artist is a bit shallow, considering all the unbelievable lyrics he has written (IMO).
:D
Lets not forget the Carter Family, folks!
QuoteLets not forget the Carter Family, folks!
I'm pretty sure I didn't, pal. :-/
Quotewell since carl perkins directly inspired john lennon to start his skiffle group The Quarry Men which later became the beatles AND since Dylan inspired lennon to change the motivation of the band towards solid music making, i'd say that carl perkins and bob dylan are at the top of the influential list. perkins also had a big hand in the career of johnny cash and he WROTE blue suede shoes for christ's sake. an then there's zeppelin who inspired (either way, whether you think negatively or positively) the nwobhm (new wave of british heavy metal)so that'd be my bare bones list focused directly on pop music
carl perkins
bob dylan
led zeppelin
I agree 100%. Well...maybe 95%. I would put Dylan at the top. And saying that Bob Dylan is a con artist is ridiculous, I don't even know how to begin to respond.
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I agree 100%. Well...maybe 95%. I would put Dylan at the top. And saying that Bob Dylan is a con artist is ridiculous, I don't even know how to begin to respond.
i only put perkins first cuz he came first...no real preference, i mean i'll take zeppelin over bob any day and they're LAST on my list..but i mean jeez it's a list of 3 so it really doesn't matter i guess
I continue to be stunned by how little recognition Black Sabbath gets on this topic... only one previous post mention to them and they were passed on for the ROck N Roll hall of fame while George Harrison's solo career was deemed worthy. Nearly every rock n roller I followed as a kid confessed Sabbath was a influence on them. Ozzy's current solo career, his reality show, his annoying wife and kids, his goofy appearence at Wrigley Field, aas well as the post Ozzy Sabbath era all aid in the cheapening of the bands legacy, but nevertheless they have been far more influential (remember, there is a difference between influential and inovative/original) then the majority of the bands listed.
Did anyone say elvis? i don't listen to him, but you can't deny his influence.
QuoteDid anyone say elvis? i don't listen to him, but you can't deny his influence.
Thia ia where the conversation turns into a question of semantics. I think of Elvis as more of a cultural influence than a musicial one. Elvis was not the first to do what he was doing, or the best for that matter, but he was the only white boy doing it which made white people take notice of rock 'n' roll. I mean, he was a better actor than a songwriter and that's not saying much. I think if Bob Dylan is going to be labeled a white man's artist that we should call a spade a spade (no pun intended) when it comes to Elvis.
I haven't read through this whole thread but here's my .02
The Sonics
The Ventures
Booker T
Rev. Gary Davis
The MC5
The Stooges
Patti Smith Group!
Joy Division
The Smiths
Neil Young and Crazy Horse
Husker Du
Minutemen
Black Flag
Mission of Burma
The Gordons
The Clean (+ all that NZ Flying Nun stuff)
QuoteI haven't read through this whole thread but here's my .02
The Clean (+ all that NZ Flying Nun stuff)
hell yeah! the tall dwarfs directly influenced all the E6 stuff like neutral milk hotel, olivia tremor control, etc.
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hell yeah! the tall dwarfs directly influenced all the E6 stuff like neutral milk hotel, olivia tremor control, etc.
There was a band called The Pin Group who were NZ's answer to Joy Division. If you find that album, check it out by all means. They do a cover of "Low Rider" that has to be heard to be believed.
Also alot of that really low-fi stuff by The Clean sounds like Lou Barlow and Bob Pollard took notes.
not sure if posted but Parilement/Funkadelic
I don't think Prodigy are on the list are they?
In my humble opinion The Prodigy introduced Dance Kids & Hip-Hop heads to Rock & Metal & vice versa. They were the first dance group to grace the pages of Kerrang! due to their punishing live shows & are responsible for many of the dance/hip-hop/metal cross-over bands that the kids seem to love so much today.
I'll repeat ratsprayer and say:
Kraftwerk
Without Kraftwerk, there's none of that techno/dance/hip hop/electronica/etc.../yadda yadda yadda/goom blutz blatz music.
These guys were sampling in the 70's and their music sounds more innovative and fresh than anything that has come out since.
BUY>> Minimum-Maximum (their new live release)
or Trans-Euope Express.
QuoteI don't think Prodigy are on the list are they?
In my humble opinion The Prodigy introduced Dance Kids & Hip-Hop heads to Rock & Metal & vice versa. They were the first dance group to grace the pages of Kerrang! due to their punishing live shows & are responsible for many of the dance/hip-hop/metal cross-over bands that the kids seem to love so much today.
I loved prodigy. I remember when I bought 'fat of the land' and i thought it was the greatest thing ever. But then I faded out of the techno scene...but the album still holds a special place in my heart.
QuoteI'll repeat ratsprayer and say:
Kraftwerk
Without Kraftwerk, there's none of that techno/dance/hip hop/electronica/etc.../yadda yadda yadda/goom blutz blatz music.
These guys were sampling in the 70's and their music sounds more innovative and fresh than anything that has come out since.
BUY>> Minimum-Maximum (their new live release)
or Trans-Euope Express.
thank you thank you. as far as pre 80s influence, id say kraftwerk and entire krautrock scene (can, faust, etc) are just as important as the velvet underground, beach boys, dylan, beach boys, all those other ones we could argue about. virtually all indie bands can be traced back to can. its some of the best music put to tape, check it out.
for can, id recommend the trilogy of EGE BAMYASI, FUTURE DAYS, and TAGO MAGO.
TRANS-EUROPE EXPRESS is the consensus masterpiece for kraftwerk, but you cant go wrong with really anything theyve ever done.
Wesley Willis ;D
I'm sure its been said before but Jimi Hendrix...oh and Nick Drake? Leonard Cohen?
QuoteI'm sure its been said before but Jimi Hendrix...oh and Nick Drake? Leonard Cohen?
check and check, i got those. nick drake has pretty much been responsible for everything folk post dylan, donovan, ochs, etc. leonard cohen is directly responsible for nick cave and probably even mark kozelek, anything slowcore. cohen even did some stuff with dylan, so once again its all tied in.
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I loved prodigy. I remember when I bought 'fat of the land' and i thought it was the greatest thing ever. But then I faded out of the techno scene...but the album still holds a special place in my heart.
It was No Good (Start the Dance) from Jilted Generation that first got me interested. At that time I was a complete heavy-metal/grunge kid & disliked Dance music with a passion but something about that song really spoke to me.
I remember Fat of the Land coming out too - that was & still is a killer! The new one's shit, right?
<i>check and check, i got those. nick drake has pretty much been responsible for everything folk post dylan, donovan, ochs, etc. </i>
I first heard about Nick Drake in an interview with Morrisey. I think if you're mopey and English, Nick Drake was a definate influence.