I was extremely disturbed to see that they will only accept proof of vaccine for entry into the Chicago, Denver, and New Orleans shows.
I have tickets to Chicago but will not be going anymore if this is going to be enforced. This is completely unacceptable and a deal breaker for me. They've lost a fan over this. I've been a fan since 2005 and haven't seen them in years but this is unbelievable.
If anyone from MMJ is reading this, please change this policy or you've lost a long time fan forever.
See you!
Quote from: Tjefferson on Aug 16, 2021, 11:32 PMI was extremely disturbed to see that they will only accept proof of vaccine for entry into the Chicago, Denver, and New Orleans shows.
I have tickets to Chicago but will not be going anymore if this is going to be enforced. This is completely unacceptable and a deal breaker for me. They've lost a fan over this. I've been a fan since 2005 and haven't seen them in years but this is unbelievable.
If anyone from MMJ is reading this, please change this policy or you've lost a long time fan forever.
Your choice. But FYI, all LIVENATION venues will have the same requirement of vax only.
Great decision IMO.
What is so great about the decision? Why not require only negative tests since vaccinated people can still contract and spread the virus? What about people who have already been infected and have natural immunity? What about people who can't get the vaccine for medical reasons? What about people who can't get the vaccine for personal or religious reasons?
Does none of that matter to you because you got the vaccine?
What is so great about having to provide personal medical information prior to entering a concert? You don't see anything wrong with this?
Again, this policy is POINTLESS if vaccinated people can still contract and spread the virus. Where is the common sense? Or is Chicago, MMJ and others trying to leverage a concert (of which I have already purchased tickets) to force me into a medical procedure!?! Not going to happen.
Quote from: Tjefferson on Aug 17, 2021, 07:46 AMWhat is so great about the decision? Why not require only negative tests since vaccinated people can still contract and spread the virus? What about people who have already been infected and have natural immunity? What about people who can't get the vaccine for medical reasons? What about people who can't get the vaccine for personal or religious reasons?
Does none of that matter to you because you got the vaccine?
What is so great about having to provide personal medical information prior to entering a concert? You don't see anything wrong with this?
Again, this policy is POINTLESS if vaccinated people can still contract and spread the virus. Where is the common sense? Or is Chicago, MMJ and others trying to leverage a concert (of which I have already purchased tickets) to force me into a medical procedure!?! Not going to happen.
Don't let the door hit ya on your way out.
tbh here folks, showing recent negative tests (less than 3 days, should probably be 2 days) is probably a better safety approach overall even for folks who have had vaccinations. I know several people with breakthrough cases that would have normally been admitted to a show based on their vax status but could still possibly (less likely, I know) still spread covid. Let's not pile on here bc that's exactly how we've ended up so polarized.
i've been vaccinated for months now, but I respect people's decision to wait for a full FDA approval as long as those people get tested before going out to big gatherings & wear a mask. At this point, I think this is a flawed decision but one the band made with the best intentions.
parkervb, I appreciate the respectful response.
A friend of the family who was fully vaccinated just spent three days in the hospital. People with the vaccine can still get and spread it. This is a fact.
Seems this policy is more about someone's political agenda to inspire people to get vaccinated and less about the health of those in attendance or respecting personal health decisions of those in attendance. I'm really disappointed.
The band definitely has an agenda... They want to play shows, and the only way for shows and other large gatherings to consistently happen is if a large enough portion of the general public gets vaccinated.
It amazes me how so many people think that trying to prevent preventable deaths is somehow a political agenda.
(small clarification on my post - I think the decision to not allow people with recent negative tests is flawed, not the decision to implement safety measures)
Quote from: Tjefferson on Aug 17, 2021, 08:50 AMparkervb, I appreciate the respectful response.
A friend of the family who was fully vaccinated just spent three days in the hospital. People with the vaccine can still get and spread it. This is a fact.
Seems this policy is more about someone's political agenda to inspire people to get vaccinated and less about the health of those in attendance or respecting personal health decisions of those in attendance. I'm really disappointed.
This band is sharing a room with thousands of strangers every other night for months in the middle of a global pandemic. We already saw what this pandemic can do to the live music/entertainment industry. Do you give two shits how COVID left the band with so many questions about their future last year? If one member of the band comes down with COVID, that's two weeks of dates gone, that's best case scenario. Not willing to get a vaccine or negative COVID test? Then, you're not welcome. Plain and simple. No reason to jeopardize an entire tour for a few bad apples not willing to do the bare minimum during a pandemic.
If their agenda is to inspire people to get vaccinated then I love them even more.
Pineapple, why is a negative test not acceptable for you? Why the obsession with the vaccine?
austinpsychnut, if you read the original post or my other replies, I asked why a negative Covid test wasn't acceptable. Requiring a negative Covid test for all, regardless of vaccination status is the safest option. Yet, that is off the table (for Chicago, etc). Why?
Is that a band decision or a local decision?
Quote from: Cameron on Aug 17, 2021, 09:47 AMIs that a band decision or a local decision?
It's not clear... but I'm guessing heavily influenced locally with some level of sign off from the band
In nola every indoor venue requires proof of vaccination. It has nothing to do with the band.
Quote from: Tjefferson on Aug 17, 2021, 09:36 AMPineapple, why is a negative test not acceptable for you? Why the obsession with the vaccine?
austinpsychnut, if you read the original post or my other replies, I asked why a negative Covid test wasn't acceptable. Requiring a negative Covid test for all, regardless of vaccination status is the safest option. Yet, that is off the table (for Chicago, etc). Why?
What do you think is more likely:
The band sat around and picked 3 random venues off their tour to single out OR they are adhering to city/venue/local requirements? I think a reasonable person would assume the latter of options is most likely.
Last year the band missed out on an entire year of what's left of their prime and now they are doing what it takes to make a live tour happen. This is bigger than you or me.
What's with the obsession with NOT getting vaccinated?
Quote from: austinpsychnut on Aug 17, 2021, 02:20 PMQuote from: Tjefferson on Aug 17, 2021, 09:36 AMPineapple, why is a negative test not acceptable for you? Why the obsession with the vaccine?
austinpsychnut, if you read the original post or my other replies, I asked why a negative Covid test wasn't acceptable. Requiring a negative Covid test for all, regardless of vaccination status is the safest option. Yet, that is off the table (for Chicago, etc). Why?
What do you think is more likely:
The band sat around and picked 3 random venues off their tour to single out OR they are adhering to city/venue/local requirements? I think a reasonable person would assume the latter of options is most likely.
Last year the band missed out on an entire year of what's left of their prime and now they are doing what it takes to make a live tour happen. This is bigger than you or me.
Amen
https://www.auditoriumtheatre.org/your-visit/safety/ (https://www.auditoriumtheatre.org/your-visit/safety/)
Looks like in the case of the MMJ shows in Chicago it is the band making the request for everyone to be vaccinated rather than the venue.
As to the choice between getting jabbed or not it was and is very simple for me. I understand that the vaccine is not 100% effective against protecting people from getting sick and transmitting the virus to others (no vaccine is), but it is almost 100% effective against getting sick and dying from this virus in all of its forms. That's a big deal. I don't want to get sick and spend time in any hospital only to eventually die, especially from this damn virus. We just lost the 53 year old mother of one of our daughter's best friends (visitation was Saturday) after she had been in the ICU for two months. She refused to get vaccinated and sadly she paid the price, and her daughters also still (!) refuse to get vaccinated even after watching what happened to their mother (one of her daughters was the person who originally gave her covid in the fist place - how do you think she feels). And I also want to spend time with my parents and other folks all of whom are vaccinated as well and literally won't hang out with folks who aren't (which is their choice also).
Bottom line is the people who are dying right now are almost all unvaccinated, and there's a simple and widely available solution for anyone who wants to avoid that outcome.
it is the best possible way forward to a very shitty situation. It's their decision (or in some circumstances, the venue or promotor) to decide under what conditions they are willing to put themselves into. If they only feel comfortable being in tight spaces with vaccinated individuals that is their choice (and an extremely smart and educated choice at that). You also have the choice of with whom you are willing to share your space with, but you have no right to call them out on their decisions. For whatever reason, you are choosing to ignore science...that is your choice. And as you hopefully learned as a child...your choices have consequences. This is called life.
Hopefully you all recognize that this policy was changed after tickets were sold. Despite being a fan of this band for the past 15+ years, I wouldn't be here posting if that didn't happen.
Also, I respect your personal decision either to take or not take the vaccine. Please respect my personal private decision.
Never in my life have I been required to provide personal health information prior to entering a concert. I am not comfortable with this and it makes me wonder what other new things in the future I will have to comply with in order to enter a concert. This sets a dangerous precedent and I personally am not comfortable or happy with it.
I'll leave you all with a link to a recent CDC study where ~75% of the people who contracted Covid were already vaccinated. Seems to me a negative Covid test prior to entry to a concert would be a lot safer than proof of vaccine. Unless that changes, enjoy the Chicago shows!
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w
I'm with ya TJ this is nutty stuff and very hard to deal with. People are facing choices they haven't had to contemplate for generations. The CDC study you reference is exactly why folks have their panties in a bunch right now.
One important thing to note about this study is the four items in the Discussion section which you can see below, and the first one seems to say you can't really draw clear lines about any of this which is what makes the whole situation so darn tough and so subject to change. Sounds like the school might shutdown here sooner than later, and it literally just opened its doors.
:shocked:
"The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations. First, data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak. As population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of COVID-19 cases. Second, asymptomatic breakthrough infections might be underrepresented because of detection bias. Third, demographics of cases likely reflect those of attendees at the public gatherings, as events were marketed to adult male participants; further study is underway to identify other population characteristics among cases, such as additional demographic characteristics and underlying health conditions including immunocompromising conditions.*** MA DPH, CDC, and affected jurisdictions are collaborating in this response; MA DPH is conducting additional case investigations, obtaining samples for genomic sequencing, and linking case information with laboratory data and vaccination history. Finally, Ct values obtained with SARS-CoV-2 qualitative RT-PCR diagnostic tests might provide a crude correlation to the amount of virus present in a sample and can also be affected by factors other than viral load."
I'm truly surprised by some of your reactions to a rational post. It's part of the reason I loved this band was the diverse and seemingly acceptable group of people no matter what somebody's beliefs. I promise you I have my personal reasons for not vaccinating and waiting to see what happens period. I will not be forced or coerced to do something I don't want to do. Slippery slope for sure. Hope everyone a safe time at the shows and I will be there in spirit. It's been a fun run for sure and had many great times and hate to see people divided by this or any other polarized situation we find ourselves in.
They don't have a choice in NOLA or Denver.
Looks like the venue in Chicago is only requiring proof of vaccine or negative test.
I would be stunned if there are any indoor venues not requiring proof of vaccination by the time these shows roll around...... if they happen at all.
I think most of tired of people not listening to their doctors and negatively impacting vaccinated people's lives and health.
My new pet peeve is people saying they respect everyone's desire to research the issue for themselves. Just ask your doctor.
Never in my life have I been required to provide personal health information prior to entering a concert.
Who on earth has? Certainly no one posting here. There was a major event over the past two years and this is the generally accepted best way to go forward with indoor live music. Things have gotten worse since tickets went on sale. Depending on what news source you believe, the majority of them state the reason for the increase in infections is due primarily to the unvaccinated. It is not rocket science. And this is not the first time in your life you will have an event that is negative and unprecedented.
The black/whiteness of "vaccinated people can still get/spread covid" seems to ignore orders of magnitude. Vaccinated people are way less likely to get it. I don't think it's entirely clear how well that holds up with delta, but I saw one stat that said it still reduces transmission even for delta by 60%. That's a greatly reduced number and can certainly reduce the odds that a concert becomes a super spreader event.
Now, if they wanted to encourage even the vaccinated to have a negative test I'd be fine with that... but yes, of course there's an agenda to get vaccines in arms and stop a pandemic. I would expect that to be the agenda of any government, and I would expect it to be the agenda of a band whose livelihood depends on it. "Agenda" being thrown around like it's a negative word... of course governments have agendas, and when there's a disease killing people unnecessarily I'd expect stopping it to be at the top of that agenda.
I should be allowed to drive drunk. I have personal and/or religious reasons for not calling a cab and i dont exactly buy the "data" about alcohol related automobile deaths. All that stuff is political. My dad drove home from the bar 4-5 nights a week and never had a problem. I hear they are now administering blood tests! To me, thats a private health matter.
First they take your keys, then they take your blood...this country is going to shit.
You know what pisses me off? The people that bitch the most about any type of precaution for a global pandemic are the ones keeping us in this longer.
Quote from: Cameron on Aug 18, 2021, 09:13 AMYou know what pisses me off? The people that bitch the most about any type of precaution for a global pandemic are the ones keeping us in this longer.
Yep
Quote from: Tjefferson on Aug 16, 2021, 11:32 PMI was extremely disturbed to see that they will only accept proof of vaccine for entry into the Chicago, Denver, and New Orleans shows.
I have tickets to Chicago but will not be going anymore if this is going to be enforced. This is completely unacceptable and a deal breaker for me. They've lost a fan over this. I've been a fan since 2005 and haven't seen them in years but this is unbelievable.
If anyone from MMJ is reading this, please change this policy or you've lost a long time fan forever.
This is related to the AEG announcement that after October 1, they will require vaccinations rather than something coming from MMJ directly.
This whining about why aren't vaccinated people also required to get a negative test coming from people who aren't vaccinated can stop. If you are annoyed you have to jump through hoops don't go to the show. But don't act like your beef is that there could be vaccinated people wandering around the show with covid and that this policy isn't doing enough to keep people safe. If you cared at all about staying safe from covid, then you'd probably be vaccinated.
Quote from: Tjefferson on Aug 17, 2021, 05:26 PMNever in my life have I been required to provide personal health information prior to entering a concert.
gonna go out on a limb here and assume that perhaps this is the first global pandemic of your lifetime as well? Coincidence maybe?
Quote from: walterfredo on Aug 18, 2021, 05:04 PMQuote from: Tjefferson on Aug 17, 2021, 05:26 PMNever in my life have I been required to provide personal health information prior to entering a concert.
gonna go out on a limb here and assume that perhaps this is the first global pandemic of your lifetime as well? Coincidence maybe?
The biggest
"NO SHIT!" of the year.
Quote from: Tjefferson on Aug 16, 2021, 11:32 PMyou've lost a long time fan forever.
Their concern for this (whether it's you or someone you may infect and kill) is exactly why they are asking you to get vaccinated
Quote from: Tjefferson on Aug 17, 2021, 07:46 AMWhat is so great about the decision? Why not require only negative tests since vaccinated people can still contract and spread the virus? What about people who have already been infected and have natural immunity? What about people who can't get the vaccine for medical reasons? What about people who can't get the vaccine for personal or religious reasons?
Does none of that matter to you because you got the vaccine?
What is so great about having to provide personal medical information prior to entering a concert? You don't see anything wrong with this?
Again, this policy is POINTLESS if vaccinated people can still contract and spread the virus. Where is the common sense? Or is Chicago, MMJ and others trying to leverage a concert (of which I have already purchased tickets) to force me into a medical procedure!?! Not going to happen.
100% AGREED! The "vaccinated only" pit at the Dead & Company shows just fucking sprouted an outbreak....
the vaccines are doing nothing to stop this virus and it's ridiculous to enforce these things. Look at how other countries are successfully handling Covid...none of them are doing segregationist bullshit like this.
I get why the venues, the road crews, the bands are all gung ho on this, but it's really dumb....it's actually going to cause an even bigger lockdown in my opinion.
Vaxxers, who never wear masks, are the new super spreaders.
whoever said all the people dying are unvaccinated is just not in reality.
hate to see fans so grossly aggressive about this issue.
I believe in vaccines, just not one that was rushed as insanely fast as this one....and not one made by these pharma companies, hell no.
They're profiting big time off of this pandemic and they don't really give a damn if it's going to increase or decrease Covid from the population, it's all about making sure the money can keep rolling in for the big machine, that includes the concert industry.
Seeing fans go after each other over personal choices, sometimes beyond people's control like myself, is disgusting. This whole pro-vaxxer crusade is getting really gross, where anything from money to concerts to "you won't get as good of care if you're unvaccinated and have covid" are used as incentives to terrify and force decisions....
I don't like any of this.
I recently went and saw Wilco and Flaming Lips, 3/4 of the crowd were maskless.
That's the problem, not the vaccine. It's the damn masks that people need to be wearing and adhering to, and if they did, we could have concerts.
I love everybody on this forum, but frankly the lines that are being drawn about this are fucked up....anyone who's against your opinion must be "anti science" must be "pro Trump" must be really stupid, etc upon etc, like the unvaccinated are willingly killing people....
If you believe that, then look at the current rates of hospitalizations, which are higher than at ANY TIME during 2020, and you can see the vaccine is doing nothing but prolong this sense of "normalcy" while these rich fuckers line their pockets.
RESPECT PEOPLE...ALL PEOPLE...
I never see unvaccinated or anti-vaccine people going around and telling people DON'T TAKE THIS! DON'T TAKE THIS!
I only see the vaccinated freaking out at everyone like they're William Calley.
We are all going to look back on this era one day and say "my god...how could we get our Covid response so wrong? From the panic, the delirium of Summer 2020's violent chaos to now a segregationist, classist society based on what you've injected.
btw, listen to your doctor? my doctor has a master's in micro-biology and bio-pharmaceuticals and a lot of other fancy dancy things, and let me tell you this....that man isn't anti vaccine, he's not anti -mask, but he haaaaates this vaccine. He refused to take it, he tells any patients under the age of 40 not to, and I think the guy is awesome for actually researching something hardcore and questioning it, not just making up his mind and cutting off the other half of the population like they're lepers.
It's fucking disturbing........this is worse than Orwellian projections
Quote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 04:21 PMwhoever said all the people dying are unvaccinated is just not in reality.
The vast majority of those hospitalized are unvaccinated. If you're reading anything differently you should question the source. I work in healthcare and talk to doctors and nurses every single day. They ALL say the same thing.
Quote from: Cameron on Aug 27, 2021, 05:04 PMQuote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 04:21 PMwhoever said all the people dying are unvaccinated is just not in reality.
The vast majority of those hospitalized are unvaccinated. If you're reading anything differently you should question the source. I work in healthcare and talk to doctors and nurses every single day. They ALL say the same thing.
of course they would, they're all pro-vaccine so it fits their narrative.
Like.....if you're trying to say they're all unvaccinated that's just a lie. Think about it....most of the people would be vaccinated cause of the vaccinations rising, right? most of the population has it....so it's already just not true right out of the gate.
Also, debate me on whatever you want, that's fine.
I just thought I needed to say some words to let those on here (who aren't buying into this charade either) know that I'm with you, we'll get through this and it sucks the band (along with many, Isbell being the worst culprit) have chosen to go down this route.
There's some, mostly on that facebook group, who cannot handle one single word said about the band that isn't covered in silken honeycomb shits....but I have to say, it's funny how usually the left loves freedom and non-censorship and allowing people to live their own lifestyles etc, but here they are trying to seriously legislate our bodies...fuck that.
That's why I'm a registered unaffiliated.
Btw, you don't have to show me your vaccination card for me to say I love you.
Whatever. Have a good one.
Quote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 05:12 PMQuote from: Cameron on Aug 27, 2021, 05:04 PMQuote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 04:21 PMwhoever said all the people dying are unvaccinated is just not in reality.
The vast majority of those hospitalized are unvaccinated. If you're reading anything differently you should question the source. I work in healthcare and talk to doctors and nurses every single day. They ALL say the same thing.
of course they would, they're all pro-vaccine so it fits their narrative.
Like.....if you're trying to say they're all unvaccinated that's just a lie. Think about it....most of the people would be vaccinated cause of the vaccinations rising, right? most of the population has it....so it's already just not true right out of the gate.
Also, debate me on whatever you want, that's fine.
I just thought I needed to say some words to let those on here (who aren't buying into this charade either) know that I'm with you, we'll get through this and it sucks the band (along with many, Isbell being the worst culprit) have chosen to go down this route.
There's some, mostly on that facebook group, who cannot handle one single word said about the band that isn't covered in silken honeycomb shits....but I have to say, it's funny how usually the left loves freedom and non-censorship and allowing people to live their own lifestyles etc, but here they are trying to seriously legislate our bodies...fuck that.
Btw, you don't have to show me your vaccination card for me to say I love you.
YIKES
Quote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 04:58 PMhate to see fans so grossly aggressive about this issue.
I believe in vaccines, just not one that was rushed as insanely fast as this one....and not one made by these pharma companies, hell no.
They're profiting big time off of this pandemic and they don't really give a damn if it's going to increase or decrease Covid from the population, it's all about making sure the money can keep rolling in for the big machine, that includes the concert industry.
Seeing fans go after each other over personal choices, sometimes beyond people's control like myself, is disgusting. This whole pro-vaxxer crusade is getting really gross, where anything from money to concerts to "you won't get as good of care if you're unvaccinated and have covid" are used as incentives to terrify and force decisions....
I don't like any of this.
I recently went and saw Wilco and Flaming Lips, 3/4 of the crowd were maskless.
That's the problem, not the vaccine. It's the damn masks that people need to be wearing and adhering to, and if they did, we could have concerts.
I love everybody on this forum, but frankly the lines that are being drawn about this are fucked up....anyone who's against your opinion must be "anti science" must be "pro Trump" must be really stupid, etc upon etc, like the unvaccinated are willingly killing people....
If you believe that, then look at the current rates of hospitalizations, which are higher than at ANY TIME during 2020, and you can see the vaccine is doing nothing but prolong this sense of "normalcy" while these rich fuckers line their pockets.
RESPECT PEOPLE...ALL PEOPLE...
I never see unvaccinated or anti-vaccine people going around and telling people DON'T TAKE THIS! DON'T TAKE THIS!
I only see the vaccinated freaking out at everyone like they're William Calley.
We are all going to look back on this era one day and say "my god...how could we get our Covid response so wrong? From the panic, the delirium of Summer 2020's violent chaos to now a segregationist, classist society based on what you've injected.
btw, listen to your doctor? my doctor has a master's in micro-biology and bio-pharmaceuticals and a lot of other fancy dancy things, and let me tell you this....that man isn't anti vaccine, he's not anti -mask, but he haaaaates this vaccine. He refused to take it, he tells any patients under the age of 40 not to, and I think the guy is awesome for actually researching something hardcore and questioning it, not just making up his mind and cutting off the other half of the population like they're lepers.
It's fucking disturbing........this is worse than Orwellian projections
Orwell was a fascist... we're not quite there yet.
Quote from: Stevie on Aug 18, 2021, 08:47 AMI should be allowed to drive drunk. I have personal and/or religious reasons for not calling a cab and i dont exactly buy the "data" about alcohol related automobile deaths. All that stuff is political. My dad drove home from the bar 4-5 nights a week and never had a problem. I hear they are now administering blood tests! To me, thats a private health matter.
First they take your keys, then they take your blood...this country is going to shit.
Exactly. Illegal or not its unethical to drive drunk because of the high probability of killing someone else. Its unethical right now to go to large gatherings of closely packed people unvaccinated and unmasked.
Personal freedom, for people who give a shit about anybody but themselves, ends when a behavior does harm to some one else. Its the very simple ethos of the Grateful Deadheads - Do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt somebody else. Freedom combined with kindness. Freedom with out kindness is just selfish assholery
Quote from: Pineapple on Aug 27, 2021, 08:22 PMQuote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 05:12 PMQuote from: Cameron on Aug 27, 2021, 05:04 PMQuote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 04:21 PMwhoever said all the people dying are unvaccinated is just not in reality.
The vast majority of those hospitalized are unvaccinated. If you're reading anything differently you should question the source. I work in healthcare and talk to doctors and nurses every single day. They ALL say the same thing.
of course they would, they're all pro-vaccine so it fits their narrative.
Like.....if you're trying to say they're all unvaccinated that's just a lie. Think about it....most of the people would be vaccinated cause of the vaccinations rising, right? most of the population has it....so it's already just not true right out of the gate.
Also, debate me on whatever you want, that's fine.
I just thought I needed to say some words to let those on here (who aren't buying into this charade either) know that I'm with you, we'll get through this and it sucks the band (along with many, Isbell being the worst culprit) have chosen to go down this route.
There's some, mostly on that facebook group, who cannot handle one single word said about the band that isn't covered in silken honeycomb shits....but I have to say, it's funny how usually the left loves freedom and non-censorship and allowing people to live their own lifestyles etc, but here they are trying to seriously legislate our bodies...fuck that.
Btw, you don't have to show me your vaccination card for me to say I love you.
YIKES
Yikes is right. Seriously? The medical professionals who see firsthand people dying of COVID are lying by saying the vast majority of them are unvaccinated and they are lying because they want to spread a pro-vaccine conspiracy? Vaccine makers sole motive is to make money not save lives? Now those are some seriously cynical, illogical and just plain far fetched conclusions. dude Lonndown, I dig your passion for MMJ music but I see you projecting your own far fetched conspiracies onto people who are saying things based on actual events and science.
If you want to TRULY respect all people, either get vaccinated and wear a mask at large gatherings or if you choose not to, stay home in quarantine. You can have your personal freedom to not get vaccinated if its that imporant to you, but then take responsibility to not do harm to others by staying in quarantine.
Well said Shug, :beer: unfortunately there's to much "Freedom without kindness is just selfish assholery" going on right now.
Quote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 05:12 PMQuote from: Cameron on Aug 27, 2021, 05:04 PMQuote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 04:21 PMwhoever said all the people dying are unvaccinated is just not in reality.
The vast majority of those hospitalized are unvaccinated. If you're reading anything differently you should question the source. I work in healthcare and talk to doctors and nurses every single day. They ALL say the same thing.
of course they would, they're all pro-vaccine so it fits their narrative.
Like.....if you're trying to say they're all unvaccinated that's just a lie. Think about it....most of the people would be vaccinated cause of the vaccinations rising, right? most of the population has it....so it's already just not true right out of the gate.
Also, debate me on whatever you want, that's fine.
I just thought I needed to say some words to let those on here (who aren't buying into this charade either) know that I'm with you, we'll get through this and it sucks the band (along with many, Isbell being the worst culprit) have chosen to go down this route.
There's some, mostly on that facebook group, who cannot handle one single word said about the band that isn't covered in silken honeycomb shits....but I have to say, it's funny how usually the left loves freedom and non-censorship and allowing people to live their own lifestyles etc, but here they are trying to seriously legislate our bodies...fuck that.
Btw, you don't have to show me your vaccination card for me to say I love you.
holy shit man...
Quote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 05:12 PMQuote from: Cameron on Aug 27, 2021, 05:04 PMQuote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 04:21 PMwhoever said all the people dying are unvaccinated is just not in reality.
The vast majority of those hospitalized are unvaccinated. If you're reading anything differently you should question the source. I work in healthcare and talk to doctors and nurses every single day. They ALL say the same thing.
of course they would, they're all pro-vaccine so it fits their narrative.
Like.....if you're trying to say they're all unvaccinated that's just a lie. Think about it....most of the people would be vaccinated cause of the vaccinations rising, right? most of the population has it....so it's already just not true right out of the gate.
Also, debate me on whatever you want, that's fine.
I just thought I needed to say some words to let those on here (who aren't buying into this charade either) know that I'm with you, we'll get through this and it sucks the band (along with many, Isbell being the worst culprit) have chosen to go down this route.
There's some, mostly on that facebook group, who cannot handle one single word said about the band that isn't covered in silken honeycomb shits....but I have to say, it's funny how usually the left loves freedom and non-censorship and allowing people to live their own lifestyles etc, but here they are trying to seriously legislate our bodies...fuck that.
Btw, you don't have to show me your vaccination card for me to say I love you.
Quote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 04:58 PMhate to see fans so grossly aggressive about this issue.
I believe in vaccines, just not one that was rushed as insanely fast as this one....and not one made by these pharma companies, hell no.
They're profiting big time off of this pandemic and they don't really give a damn if it's going to increase or decrease Covid from the population, it's all about making sure the money can keep rolling in for the big machine, that includes the concert industry.
Seeing fans go after each other over personal choices, sometimes beyond people's control like myself, is disgusting. This whole pro-vaxxer crusade is getting really gross, where anything from money to concerts to "you won't get as good of care if you're unvaccinated and have covid" are used as incentives to terrify and force decisions....
I don't like any of this.
I recently went and saw Wilco and Flaming Lips, 3/4 of the crowd were maskless.
That's the problem, not the vaccine. It's the damn masks that people need to be wearing and adhering to, and if they did, we could have concerts.
I love everybody on this forum, but frankly the lines that are being drawn about this are fucked up....anyone who's against your opinion must be "anti science" must be "pro Trump" must be really stupid, etc upon etc, like the unvaccinated are willingly killing people....
If you believe that, then look at the current rates of hospitalizations, which are higher than at ANY TIME during 2020, and you can see the vaccine is doing nothing but prolong this sense of "normalcy" while these rich fuckers line their pockets.
RESPECT PEOPLE...ALL PEOPLE...
I never see unvaccinated or anti-vaccine people going around and telling people DON'T TAKE THIS! DON'T TAKE THIS!
I only see the vaccinated freaking out at everyone like they're William Calley.
We are all going to look back on this era one day and say "my god...how could we get our Covid response so wrong? From the panic, the delirium of Summer 2020's violent chaos to now a segregationist, classist society based on what you've injected.
btw, listen to your doctor? my doctor has a master's in micro-biology and bio-pharmaceuticals and a lot of other fancy dancy things, and let me tell you this....that man isn't anti vaccine, he's not anti -mask, but he haaaaates this vaccine. He refused to take it, he tells any patients under the age of 40 not to, and I think the guy is awesome for actually researching something hardcore and questioning it, not just making up his mind and cutting off the other half of the population like they're lepers.
It's fucking disturbing........this is worse than Orwellian projections
roughly 1/4 of this once-great country is irretrievably broken. it wouldn't be so horrifying to watch if they weren't dragging the rest of us down with them.
Quote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 05:12 PMit fits their narrative.
You have a fascinating unscientific narrative yourself. Nice insight to what sort of self-important paranoia is killing us
I'm old enough to remember getting the smallpox vaccine in school (!) as a first grader, and it was administered with this crazy scary gun looking setup that left a weird scar on everyone who got it. Virtually everyone on this planet gets various vaccines at certain points in their lives and because of this diseases are able to be controlled and managed, at least to a certain extent, and some like smallpox have been completely eliminated from causing us trouble. My brother in law just got through battling throat cancer that is caused by the HPV virus which now has its own vaccine, which he probably would have avoided if it would have been available when we were young and he would have gotten the vaccine.
I won't list the diseases that humankind has addressed with vaccines that everyone benefits from, and I really don't understand how this battle with COVID-19 and the vaccines that are here to fight it are any different.
But I still love everyone regardless, including folks in my own family and friends circle that feel this way, and you too Lonndown27. I just don't understand why y'all feel the way you do plain and simple.
Quote from: pzoo on Aug 29, 2021, 10:23 AMQuote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 05:12 PMit fits their narrative.
You have a fascinating unscientific narrative yourself. Nice insight to what sort of self-important paranoia is killing us
It's truly insane.
No one is forcing anyone to get a vaccine. Everyone, vaccinated or not, has access to food, water, shelter, ways to make income, fair legal representation, communication, etc. Going to a concert isn't a right, it's a privilege.
I got my vaccine for free. Everyone I know got their vaccine for free. These doctors and nurses, you know they're just people, right? If you have a literal diagram of how this whole process benefits my mother - who has seen a lot of young mothers die in the U of M NICU from Covid, I'd love to see it. Because it truly make zero sense.
You won't trust a vaccine from a pharma company? Who the hell else would make the vaccine? It's just funny to me how all these people suddenly are skeptical and so inquisitive of the health care system. Suddenly the doctors' dedication and expertise is debunked because some dude on an MMJ forum had the groundbreaking insight to "just think about it." If you start turning colors and burning and throwing up violently, I bet you would go to the hospital and let them treat you. I bet you wouldn't say "hey before you treat me, I'd like to do my own research because you're clearly just here to make money and you don't care if I die. Your reputation clearly doesn't depend on your patients surviving."
You wouldn't say that because you need help immediately. There are people who need help immediately. There will be people who need immediate help in the future - people who could've avoided needing that help if half our society wasn't so fucking obsessed with individualism.
Everyone want this to be over. EVERYONE. This whole "slippery slope" paranoia is so delusional. Someone mentioned it earlier - the reason this is the first time you've had to reveal your medical records for access to your "rights," is because THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS HAPPENED IN OUR LIFETIMES. This is an extraordinary situation, so there will be extraordinary (read, "not ordinary") measures taken to get out of it.
This is not genocide or ethnic cleansing. Seeing all of these (mostly) white males cry about being oppressed. Give me a fucking break.
For the record - I agree with the main premise of the OP. A negative test should get you in. But, bands and venues are exercising their fReEdOm to not invite whoever they want. Shouldn't you cheer on their patriotism?
I hate to further this argument but people who are spreading this conspiracy bullshit are categorically irresponsible.
A lady that works for me won't get the vaccine for all the ridiculous reasons we've heard and won't get tested because she read the nasal swabs cause cancer but she'll shove soda and fast food down her throat 2 or 3 times a day without questioning it. Her brother died of Covid. These folks are just so dug in they can't admit they might not be the most educated on the subject.
These threads are the ones you have to read and remember when someone is like "my buddy and I just need a ride to the next show" and you're like "sure I only know them from the internet but it's a MMJ forum so I'm sure it's cool"
Haha
Some fantastic responses in this thread. Let science lead the way.
lonndown27, i love your contributions to this forum and your passion for the band. however, on the covid/vaccine issue, you do not know of what you speak. for the safety of the band and its fans, i would dial down your baseless ranting.
Quote from: michaelbusterkeaton219 on Aug 30, 2021, 01:47 PM-POST REMOVED-
Really dude? You obviously don't know this band or us at all. Hate is not in the vocabulary. I suggest you look within.
good gravy...this got out of hand. I hope the moderators clean some of this up, specifically Keaton's post. That shit is out of bounds.
Lonn - i hope you are receptive to this data regarding the current situation with the cases/hospitalizations of unvaccinated people:
https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/
We're all trying to deal with the algorithmic overlords sowing distrust & encouraging disinformation so please try to be respectful to each other.
Quote from: michaelbusterkeaton219 on Aug 30, 2021, 01:44 PM-POST REMOVED-
Woh. Dial this shit back a bit. It's not cool and totally uncalled for.
I 100% disagree with Lonn's COVID take here and wish he would get better info and change his thoughts but he's a passionate fan. Even if he wasn't and hardly posted at all, that still wouldn't make your post any less over the top, and a horrible thing to say to anyone.
Quote from: michaelbusterkeaton219 on Aug 30, 2021, 01:47 PMQuote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 05:12 PMQuote from: Cameron on Aug 27, 2021, 05:04 PMQuote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 04:21 PMwhoever said all the people dying are unvaccinated is just not in reality.
The vast majority of those hospitalized are unvaccinated. If you're reading anything differently you should question the source. I work in healthcare and talk to doctors and nurses every single day. They ALL say the same thing.
of course they would, they're all pro-vaccine so it fits their narrative.
Like.....if you're trying to say they're all unvaccinated that's just a lie. Think about it....most of the people would be vaccinated cause of the vaccinations rising, right? most of the population has it....so it's already just not true right out of the gate.
Also, debate me on whatever you want, that's fine.
I just thought I needed to say some words to let those on here (who aren't buying into this charade either) know that I'm with you, we'll get through this and it sucks the band (along with many, Isbell being the worst culprit) have chosen to go down this route.
There's some, mostly on that facebook group, who cannot handle one single word said about the band that isn't covered in silken honeycomb shits....but I have to say, it's funny how usually the left loves freedom and non-censorship and allowing people to live their own lifestyles etc, but here they are trying to seriously legislate our bodies...fuck that.
Btw, you don't have to show me your vaccination card for me to say I love you.
-POST REMOVED-
Okay, looks like we have a new craziest person in the thread.
Completely uncalled for, man.
Wow. Unbelievable... My beautiful wife is a school counselor and she literally does suicide assessments on a regular basis in part because of the language you see above.
I would suggest that the fans here who are having a relatively civilized discussion about this matter are doing it exactly because we love and care about each other even when we disagree.
At least that's where I'm coming from...
Quote from: sillyboob on Aug 30, 2021, 06:34 PMQuote from: michaelbusterkeaton219 on Aug 30, 2021, 01:44 PM-POST REMOVED-
Totally uncalled for. Seriously, adjust your head or GTFO.
Clearly made the account just to post those comments. Makes me worried it's an alt account of someone else here.
Ugh, have we learned nothing at all?
Quote from: RobRoy286 on Aug 30, 2021, 08:06 PMQuote from: sillyboob on Aug 30, 2021, 06:34 PMQuote from: michaelbusterkeaton219 on Aug 30, 2021, 01:44 PM-POST REMOVED-
Totally uncalled for. Seriously, adjust your head or GTFO.
Clearly made the account just to post those comments. Makes me worried it's an alt account of someone else here.
Ugh, have we learned nothing at all?
Damn, that's some spot on thinking and I think you're exactly right.
Even though we disagree with him at least Lonn had the balls to not only air his thoughts but sign his name to them. Not so with this dupe account and it's sad to see people stooping to this level, instead of rising above and trying to actually be kind and helpful.
Thankfully this is the first time in all these years here I've ever seen a post like this, and it's not surprising at all for me to see them being called out for it. This place, like the band has always been about music, peace and love. Let's keep it that way.
Quote from: michaelbusterkeaton219 on Aug 30, 2021, 01:47 PMQuote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 05:12 PMQuote from: Cameron on Aug 27, 2021, 05:04 PMQuote from: Lonndown27 on Aug 27, 2021, 04:21 PMwhoever said all the people dying are unvaccinated is just not in reality.
The vast majority of those hospitalized are unvaccinated. If you're reading anything differently you should question the source. I work in healthcare and talk to doctors and nurses every single day. They ALL say the same thing.
of course they would, they're all pro-vaccine so it fits their narrative.
Like.....if you're trying to say they're all unvaccinated that's just a lie. Think about it....most of the people would be vaccinated cause of the vaccinations rising, right? most of the population has it....so it's already just not true right out of the gate.
Also, debate me on whatever you want, that's fine.
I just thought I needed to say some words to let those on here (who aren't buying into this charade either) know that I'm with you, we'll get through this and it sucks the band (along with many, Isbell being the worst culprit) have chosen to go down this route.
There's some, mostly on that facebook group, who cannot handle one single word said about the band that isn't covered in silken honeycomb shits....but I have to say, it's funny how usually the left loves freedom and non-censorship and allowing people to live their own lifestyles etc, but here they are trying to seriously legislate our bodies...fuck that.
Btw, you don't have to show me your vaccination card for me to say I love you.
-POST REMOVED-
WOW... I choose to keep my opinions largely to myself on such a polarizing subject (just looking at this thread hurts my soul) and while I may not agree with Lon on everything Lon is indeed a rockstar with an unsurpassed passion for this band.
If he feels the need to voice an opposing opinion more power to him, however....U sir are just plain evil, I"ve seen to much hurt and pain in others to allow such cowardly words. Nameless faceless posts from haters out to stir the pot and cause pain in others are the real enemy and YOU sir are that enemy.
Lon my brother I'll buy you a beer and talk opposing views any day.
Quote from: pjl44 on Aug 29, 2021, 02:14 PMThese threads are the ones you have to read and remember when someone is like "my buddy and I just need a ride to the next show" and you're like "sure I only know them from the internet but it's a MMJ forum so I'm sure it's cool"
Posts and user have been removed.
Thanks to everyone else for keeping it civil.
Quote from: CC on Aug 31, 2021, 06:34 AMPosts and user have been removed.
Thanks to everyone else for keeping it civil.
Now, back to regularly scheduled programming :beer:
Quote from: RobRoy286 on Aug 31, 2021, 09:41 AMQuote from: CC on Aug 31, 2021, 06:34 AMPosts and user have been removed.
Thanks to everyone else for keeping it civil.
Now, back to regularly scheduled programming :beer:
I see what you did there. And I applaud it. :thumbsup:
I never know whether to laugh or cry at the whole "Covid is all fear mongering...but that vaccine, that's what you gotta watch out for!" notion.
Covid is definitely very much real and very much deadly, in fact deadlier than they claim with longer lasting effects of which we still have no idea about. Which is why I hope they're preparing a vaccine that can really do the job without the bizarre side effects caused by the rushed process.
Never has to be one extreme or the other with this. In fact, I feel safest on board neither extreme.
I believe in masks 100%.
What side effects? Nothing was rushed. They've been working on this type of vaccine for TWENTY YEARS!
Quote from: Cameron on Sep 07, 2021, 07:22 PMWhat side effects? Nothing was rushed. They've been working on this type of vaccine for TWENTY YEARS!
Yup, and it seems the mRNA technology is the future of all vaccines, and hopefully some cures to disease as well.
As for side effects, they're pretty much common in so many things we take from scripts to over the counter meds. I had little to none from the Pfizer except a little bit of soreness at the injection site (way less than my last Tetanus shot) and a little fatigue for a day after the 2nd dose.
On a side note, I had a heart procedure a few years back and for the first year or so dealt with lightheadedness, some shortness of breath,and I bled and bruised really easy from even the slightest nick because of the side effects of my meds. I learned what to expect and how to deal with them. Didn't like it, but it sure beat the alternative of pushing up daisies.
Yeah, what side effects?
Ugh.
Dude, I'm sorry, but what do you know about vaccines? About medicine in general?
People dedicate their fucking lives to researching and understanding this stuff.
Just because COVID-19 is a "new" virus, doesn't mean they have zero understanding of it. Science builds off itself. It's not like Rudy Golbert tested positive for the virus and then the scientists rushed out of their houses down to the lab to mix up some random chemicals and hope for the best. I mean come on. There are viruses that aren't here yet, but that doesn't mean we don't understand them at all. Scientists are proactive and are already working on avoiding this situation in the future.
Lonn, I'll echo the sentiments of everyone here that I've always loved your contributions to the site. But you're out of your lane here. You've backed down on the conspiracy pushing and are now just landing on the aspect of it being "rushed."
Remember when this all started, how unifying it was? How we all had a common enemy? How doctors and scientists were heroes? Now suddenly everyone knows better than them because they're tired of life being hard.
We'll get through this. I'm glad we've been able to discuss this civilly, for the most part. I apologize if I've come off as disrespectful. It's so easy for conversations to turn to shit when they're done with keyboards. I think if we were all in a room together the discussions would be even better (apply that to every single conversation in the world today).
Lonn, mad respect for putting your name on your opinions and not being defensive. It's hard to face criticism and you've done so gracefully. My stance is against your opinion, not against you. Just wanted to clear that up.
these vaccines do have side effects however rare. My friends mother got what the doctors called "vaccine related pneumonia" and has now had to have a pacemaker put in because of vascular issues attributed to the vaccine. Their is also this risk of Guillain-Barre syndrome from J&J vaccine, though again, it's rare.
These cases are in the significant minority and can be expected when we're talking about vaccination on the scale we've seen over the last year.
Like many things with this virus, there are nearly no absolutes and new information becomes available all the time so if we all keep that in mind, I think we can have better conversations.
Quote from: RobRoy286 on Sep 08, 2021, 06:02 AMRemember when this all started, how unifying it was? How we all had a common enemy? How doctors and scientists were heroes? Now suddenly everyone knows better than them because they're tired of life being hard.
I think this all turned on its head when Trump's operation warp speed didn't meet his deadline of getting approval before the election. Had the vaccine been approved under Trumps watch all of these anti-vaxers and vax conspiracy theorists would have been first in line to get the vaccine?!?! And the speed of the development would have been an after thought! Hell, speed was in the name he gave it in Operation WARP SPEED?!?!
But now, because the vaccine wasn't rushed enough to get it out before the election which factored in Trump losing the election, the speed of the process seems to be the #1 reason anti-vaxers don't want the vaccine?!?! Makes a hell of a lot of sense don't it??? :rolleyes:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/08/vaccine-mandate-strong-supreme-court-precedent-510280?utm_source=pocket-newtab
"Could Harlan's notion of competing freedoms transform the still-simmering debate over vaccine mandates, which now seem more possible with full FDA approval of the various vaccines either in place or on the horizon? Certainly, he offers a powerful rebuttal to those who feel that personal liberty is only in play when someone is compelled to be vaccinated: The Jacobson holding suggests that other people, from co-workers to classmates to neighbors, have a corresponding liberty interest in being free from infectious disease. Like those who inhale passive smoke, they, too, are affected by a decision that others deem a matter of personal choice.
And the court's ruling makes clear that a community in danger has every right to protect itself."