The N word

[marktwain]

I am bothered by posts that assume all people of one race act or think the same way.  And I'm not talking just about your posts, banjohead.  

and I am bothered by the thinking that black history, and Dr. King day, only matter to black people.

[Jaimoe]

I am bothered by posts that assume all people of one race act or think the same way.  And I'm not talking just about your posts, banjohead.  

and I am bothered by the thinking that black history, and Dr. King day, only matter to black people.

Well put!

[banjohead]

Ohhhhh you got buuuuuuuurrrrrnnneeeddddddddddd.

I am not a racist. I love everyone. Seriously, humans are awesome.

[primushead]

Oh GEEEZZ.  

I'm pissed I haven't had the internet for the last few days, looks like I missed a hell of a Crossfire.

So, I guess I'll chime in at the last minute with my thoughts:

How bout them Chinese people?  With their Kung-Fu and their Ching Chang Chong talk.  I can't understand you!!  Go back to where you came from!!

White Power ;)

 ;D

[Form91225]

OK, that was funny. I don't care if it was non-PC. "I don't speak freaky-deaky Dutch."

Racism exists. Racism is bad. Duh. But while the guy's choice of words, specifically referring to "they," can easily come off sounding the wrong way, there are some points I think he was trying to make that I understand.

For example, why do we have "Black Image Awards?" Why is there LULAC? Why do we have "Black History Month?"

Honestly, personally....I don't care. If blacks or Hispanics or whoever feel like having these groups are important, then I guess they are important. But what would be the response if we had a "White Image Awards" show? Or the National Association of White Journalists? etc, etc.

I think there would be a holy shitstorm of pissed-off blacks and Hispanics and so on. And if anyone agrees with that assessment, then you should agree that it's ridiculous to have awards and groups based on ANY race, color, etc.

Until we stop thinking of people as white or black or brown or red or whatever, then we're not getting anywhere. If we start thinking of people as PEOPLE and not defined by their skin color, then we will get beyond this. Until then....this.

Let the flaming begin....

[ycartrob]

OK, that was funny. I don't care if it was non-PC. "I don't speak freaky-deaky Dutch."

Racism exists. Racism is bad. Duh. But while the guy's choice of words, specifically referring to "they," can easily come off sounding the wrong way, there are some points I think he was trying to make that I understand.

For example, why do we have "Black Image Awards?" Why is there LULAC? Why do we have "Black History Month?"

Honestly, personally....I don't care. If blacks or Hispanics or whoever feel like having these groups are important, then I guess they are important. But what would be the response if we had a "White Image Awards" show? Or the National Association of White Journalists? etc, etc.

I think there would be a holy shitstorm of pissed-off blacks and Hispanics and so on. And if anyone agrees with that assessment, then you should agree that it's ridiculous to have awards and groups based on ANY race, color, etc.

Until we stop thinking of people as white or black or brown or red or whatever, then we're not getting anywhere. If we start thinking of people as PEOPLE and not defined by their skin color, then we will get beyond this. Until then....this.

Let the flaming begin....

I see your point form, however, there are plenty of exclusive whites only clubs in America, they're just not as pronounced as they are with blacks. I think the "club" of all whites that have been president and vice president of America is a little more intimidating than Black history month, don't you think?

It is a little odd to have such divided race clubs in the black community but I think some of it has to do with minorites trying to catch up in America, which was exclusively white controlled for centuries (and laws were in place to keep it that way). It really doesn't bother me that blacks have their own clubs and months, I think it's great.

You are more privilaged in this country if your skin is white. Hell, even being white trash says, "at least I ain't black!" Chris Rock has that bit where he talks about being a millionaire and he's on an elevator and this poor white guy gets on and there's this magical point where the white guy has a choice to trade places with Chris Rock and become black (and rich) and the white guy refuses and says, "I'll just ride this  white thing out, see where it takes me".  

People do play the race card too much and we are becomming a more fair and balanced nation as the years roll on. I predict the next human rights issue to be classism.  

And, I think using the N word is condescending to blacks. And white people know it, a lot of blacks know it too.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Wow, honest to God, I didn't think this issue could have any further discussion...but alas....

So, by the logic extended here, are black churches a bad thing?  Sunday morning in the US is more segregated than any other time of the week...this is bad, somehow?  By that extension, as churches are an important part of one's culture, are people here saying that by attending a church of one's choice, that their cultural identity is bad?  I just don't buy that.

America is a great country, despite it's flaws, but one of the things that makes it great is that despite the differences, we're all peacefully (mainly) co-existing with one another.  Nowhere else in the world is such a large, diverse, and polarized population living with one another without revolutions or mass killings every few years.  One of the things that makes that a reality is that we celebrate our identities as Americans, which has no color, and our individual identities as well.  Our diversity is our strength.

The points about "well, if there were a white history month blah blah blah people would be pissed"...I just don't buy that.  That sounds like some bullshit invented by hillbillies while they're cooking crank in the garage.  White people have been the dominant race group in this country from the beginning...what the fuck else do white people have to celebrate??  White people make the most money, own the most property, are the majority of public office holders, hold the most prestigious positions of corporate power....in short, every goddamn day in this country is white history day.  Whoopee-fucking-do...black people get a month to celebrate their rewritten, revisionist history.  Hardly a cause to rally around here, folks.

In conclusion, if you hadn't gotten it by now, white people have always had it made in the shade here, so these concerns are, frankly, petty and small compared to the reality that a lot of black people have to endure over the past 300 years.

[banjohead]

After seeing my points presented with different wording, I now understand why I angered yous guys. I apologize for my lackluster articulation and choice of words. I really was not trying to be racist. I will try to find the flier from which the ideas stemmed so you can see I was not trying to present my own thoughts in a racist way. I apologize. Tracy, sorry for the immature remarks about Sparky.

[Jaimoe]

America is a great country, despite it's flaws, but one of the things that makes it great is that despite the differences, we're all peacefully (mainly) co-existing with one another.  Nowhere else in the world is such a large, diverse, and polarized population living with one another without revolutions or mass killings every few years.  

I agree with most of what you said regarding the US especially the polarization part, but there are other countries in the world just as diverse - just not as polarizing.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

name one, I dare ya!

really though-I can't think of one at all that's as culturally, racially, or religiously diverse as the US.  there's a reason we're called the "melting pot" and it ain't 'cause of the cheese... ;)

[Jaimoe]

Canada is a rival, but it's not a melting pot. It's a mosaic... or so former PM Pierre Trudeau says. France, England and The Netherlands also come to mind.

I must preface however, that no country other than India can touch the diversity of religions in the US. Man, who could compete with the huge and sometimes wacky Bible Belt.

And I'd also like to add, Toronto is recognized as the most culturally diverse city in the world. Montreal and Vacouver come pretty darn close too.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

oh come on, now.  America boasts populations that descend from, well, everywhere.  plus, our population is what, 300 million?

http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/c2kbr-35.pdf

go down to the top 15 ancenstral groups.  that's just the top 15...

[EC]

one of the main differences between the philosophies of multiculturalism in canada and the us is the melting pot/cultural mosaic metaphors.  i'm not sure which works better, or makes people feel more at home, but i prefer the cultural mosaic - lots of different tiles in one big piece, as opposed to everyone blending together.

i have ZERO problem with any races or cultures having special privileges in order to educate the population and in fact, i think it's fucking awesome and important.

i certainly agree that we have to start looking at people as people, but i also agree that it's important to recognize our history and see what's happened, otherwise we won't learn from our mistakes.  for example, i think we need a bigger focus on native history in canada - most people have no idea what happened, and what is still happening.  

it's not a question of righting the wrongs - history can't be changed.  but we certainly can't go forward unless we understand what we did.

and by 'we', i mean 'everybody in the world'.  

[SiOuxTribe]

So, by the logic extended here, are black churches a bad thing?  Sunday morning in the US is more segregated than any other time of the week...this is bad, somehow?  By that extension, as churches are an important part of one's culture, are people here saying that by attending a church of one's choice, that their cultural identity is bad?  I just don't buy that.
.

Speaking of that, a majority, at least that I've seen of black churches are Christian, and so are the many 'white' colored people in America.  They believe in the exact same God, the same Jesus, why must there be racial seperation in order to worship?
This is just a general statement, I wanna see what you all think or have to say about it.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Speaking of that, a majority, at least that I've seen of black churches are Christian, and so are the many 'white' colored people in America.  They believe in the exact same God, the same Jesus, why must there be racial seperation in order to worship?
This is just a general statement, I wanna see what you all think or have to say about it.

It's a culture thing.  Like roads, you can take any combination of them, but end up in the same place eventually.  In the world of faith, IMHO, churches/temples/mosques et al are all roads leading to the same destination.   Just because some choose to take their own road that's different from mine, it's no better or lesser than anyone elses.

[Form91225]

i'd like to think a so-called "black" church would welcome non-blacks to their services. but they don't say "ebenezer BLACK methodist church" outside.

*real* christianity just doesn't care about a person's gender, color, wealth, etc. but there sure aren't many practitioners who exhibit that sort of inclusiveness. but that's another thread.

i have no truck whatsoever with any person being proud of his or her heritage and wanting to celebrate that. but i stand by my original point and will likely forevermore: until we stop using color as a dividing line, we'll be divided.

[wellfleet]

JC... i have to support EC and jaimoe's props for Canada's cultural mosaic. i prefer it to the melting pot. i feel that in america, more so since i live in it now, other cultures are expected to completely assimilate and become americans instead of korean-americans, or argentinian-american. while some want and choose to do that, i feel like it's more imposed. i feel that canada is much more tolerant of a vibrant and visible cultural identity.
in 6th grade, when i moved to canada and was in a "welcome" to learn french, we had students from more than 10 countries in a class of 25 students. every day i took the metro to school and work, there could be 5 people wearing ethnic dress reflecting 5 different countries. it's a beautiful thing. and in a country of 30 million, one tenth the size of the US, there are fewer racial tensions (although there are certainly several), there is more understanding, and much less "go back to where you came from".

i can see why visible minorities would want to have special and distinctive organizations to recognize achievement withing the minority group. they are giving themselves the recognition that they may not otherwise get in the "white" world. but i get upset, and it's the reason i'm against affirmative action, when *i* can get penalized for something neither i, nor my ancestors contributed to. my family didn't own any slaves, we didn't even live here.

to illustrate, i was on a police ride-along with my husband's cousin, Chip, in fort smith, arkansas (pop. 80,000). chip is just a regular cop on a regular beat. we were driving along in the early winter evening when a minivan pulled up with no plates, no identification, and no papers in the window indicating it was just purchased. chip started to tell me that he always pulls plate-less cars over and mostly leaves a written warning, which does not carry a fine, nor does it go on the driving record. he said it's just for his records. well, he pulls the car over, talks to the driver and it turns out it was just bought at a used lot, had all the paperwork, and it was all cool. so chip leaves them a warning to get the plates and we drive off. later on, chip gets a call from the acting commanding officer back at the station. it turns out the driver had called to complain that chip had pulled them over because they were black, had held a baton up to scare them, and treated them like common criminals. the CO wanted to hear chip's version of the events.
here's where it gets good: the driver's windows were tinted so dark, they could have and should have gotten a ticket just for that. not only could we not see the driver was a black woman, we couldn't even tell there was another passenger in the car. the "baton" they claimed was a working, police-issue flashlight chip used because it was dark. and because it was dark, they couldn't see that i was in the car, and could hear the whole exchange. he was "yes, ma'am, no, ma'am and have a nice day" the whole way and had said nothing rude, berating, racist or insulting. that's not cool. that's someone taking advantage of a system that, due to the real problem of racism, is extremely weary of complaints. it was someone who did something wrong and cried foul when she got caught and pulled the race card.

i'm not saying that racist cops don't exist. of course they do. but because they do, frivolous and fraudulent complaints destroy the credibility of everyone...

[FarmerYoda]

right well this topic hasn't been broughten up (not a word?) in ages, but i was just with a couple of friends from Hopkinton (suburb of Boston...) and they were using hte term (excuse me, i hate saying/typing/thinking about this but it really must be done) "niggerfaggot".  not only was I offended by it, but so was my brother and everyone else who i was with.
except the kids saying it.

now,. they're good kids. we've been friends for my entire life... literally.  and they're good kids., with good intentions.  and i realize that this hsit happens because outside of "the city" and where hter isn't as much diversity they don't even GET IT. they don't udnrestand the power of hte words they're using. and it's disgusting. i don't blame them. i blame the whole society.  
sorry
i was pretty offended.

[The DARK]

Racist language is so common these days that most people don't notice it. It still offends me in most cases, though. And just because everyone uses it doesn't make it good (just as everyone listening to Nickelback doesn't make them good).  :(

[FarmerYoda]

"good" is relative.