2008 Election

[dragonboy]

Here's a really insightful breakdown of all the presidential candidates. Everyone should take a look at this, certainly all undecided voters.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/526482501.html

;D

[MMJ_fanatic]

Since Mcain won't tell it like it is and call himself an independent there is no way I'm voting for him.  Mitt's gonna have to be my man now that Thompson is gone :(

[bridget]

I'm not claiming to understand it, but I absolutely acknowledge as fact the passionate, palpable hatred for Hillary. But I think if any democrat actually looked at her health care plan (and I'm going to go out on a limb and say nobody here has), you'd have a hard time arguing against it. It is 15 years in the making and completely fiscally sound. It covers everyone. Obama's plan leaves out anywhere from 15-50 million people. Up until a couple weeks ago, that was my main reason for voting for Hillary.

I've liked Obama since the Democratic Convention in '04. He is stone cold brilliant – no one's arguing that. He is not as tied in to lobbyists/K Street/closed-door dealings as Hillary. I dig that about him. An embarrassment of riches on the democratic side this year and it's about time. But I feel like I know what I'm getting with Hillary. Obama is the shoot the moon candidate. He could be Glorious. He could change the world overnight. Or he could get lost in the mess that is day to day governing. It's a tough learning curve for anyone. If I end up voting for him, it's because I've just had enough and want a fresh start for the country. No more Clintons up front for people to focus their vitriol on. It's getting ridiculous and it's bad for the process. It is not what is needed right now.

But for those of you who spit venom over the mere mention of her name... I hear LBJ was no sweetheart but he had a lot of great ideas and did a lot of good. Same with FDR and most of the Founding Fathers. We've had a president who you want to sit and have a beer with for the last eight years and my god what a f*ck up that guy is. Please note, I say that because I have a laundry list of his POLICIES I disagree with - no child left behind, tax cuts for people at the highest income levels, warrantless wiretapping of American citizens, the redacted and classified energy policy Cheney brokered, hiring Blackwater as a black-ops military adjunct in Iraq. Somebody, please tell me an issue you disagree with for Hillary. Something besides the third grade name calling.

To wit - whoever said "Hillary thinks she should be President just because she's a woman" – that's asinine. Bring me that quote. It doesn't exist. It's this echo chamber of crap that eats at me. Please actually research your candidates and take the process seriously. Try not to just regurgitate half the thing the guy on the radio said.

I think McCain could beat Hillary, and that's a good reason to vote for Obama. But if there's some kind of terrorist something in the run up to the election, I worry for Obama against McCain. We'll see...

[LizKing531]

I just cant bring myself to trust either Clinton or Obama - HC definitely has more experience, but she's a kind of shady character, & Obama has this air around him like he's santa claus here to make everything better.  It was the same thing here in Louisville when John Yarmuth got elected, & I can't think of anything that he's done yet (i could be mistaken)  His general lack of experience is reason enough for me to not vote for him.  I'm still way undecided on where my vote's going

[Penny Lane]

looks like obama has a couple more electoral votes as of today! (and i went to bed all depressed)...fingers crossed they don't lift that FL/MICH ban

[Penny Lane]

[quote

I think McCain could beat Hillary, and that's a good reason to vote for Obama. But if there's some kind of terrorist something in the run up to the election, I worry for Obama against McCain. We'll see...
[/quote]

you're right in-there's no way hillary can win the general election--if the dems are crazy enough--watch what happens on election day....watch what happens in the south and in middle america---

as for her health plan, it's going to be impossible for her to do anything if she wins--congress will turn again and just like before, she won't get anything passed--(just like her time as a NY senator)

[mjkoehler]

Yep. My wife sent me a note that the delegate margin is much better looking for Obama then thought last night when we crashed. I think he is in perfect position with Texas, PA, and OH still to come along with the other states. PA and OH both have a lot of Union voters and he should be able to take them. If she tries to fight the ban (if it's close you know she will) it will hurt her... I hope. If the Dems truly want to win the General Election, Obama needs to be the candidate.

[Penny Lane]

i don't think they'll lift the ban because it wouldn't be fair since there wasn't actually any official campaigning---if they do it, i think it will be at the end after it doesn't matter anymore (once someone's already got it in the bag) it's funny because she's got the DNC machine behind her and i'm SURPRISED they put the ban in to begin with...this could cause some constitutional issues as well (perhaps a long court battle at the end)--there are a lot of angry FL and Mich people whose votes didn't count

i hope you are right about it and i'm emailing all my family and friends back in ohio to vote obama--whoever wins in ohio always wins the election

[bridget]

there's no way hillary can win the general election--if the dems are crazy enough--watch what happens on election day....watch what happens in the south and in middle america---

But see, if this were the general election, Hillary would win (as of today - I know Obama's surging.) Just look at the splits:

Obama's getting the youth vote, hands down. People with a college degree or higher go for Obama. Whites in states where there is little racial diversity (Iowa, Minnesota, Idaho, Alaska) go for Obama. He's getting the african american vote 4 to 1.

But places with huge urban centers are swinging Hillary - California, New York, Masachusetts, New Jersey. She gets the hispanic vote 2 to 1. She has about an 8 point gap with women. She gets men and women w/o college degrees by almost 20 points.

Obama won 13 states yesterday, but only 4 of those states traditionally vote Dem in the general election: CN, DE, IL, MN.

Hillary won eight states, four of which will go Dem in the general: CA, MA, NY, NJ.

Obama would have 43 electoral college votes with those states. Hillary would have 114 with her four states.

Even if Obama somehow changed Alabama, Georgia, and Kansas into blue states - and I would be shocked if he could, he'd still be 40 electoral votes behind her in a hypothetical election.

I think this is gonna be a squeaker of an election all the way thru. The more union endorsements Obama picks up, the better I'd feel about his staying power.But I don't think Obama is the lock everyone wishes he was.

***

PS - pennylane, you're absolutely right. Hilalry would have a hell of a time getting her health plan thru Congress, but I'd like to see that fight. I think the country is in a different place than we were in... whatever... 1994? I was 13 then so I might be wrong.

PPS - Obama's victory speech, "We are the ones we've been waiting for" so makes me swoooon. I get the draw. I want them both.