Baseball Thread...

[ericm]

Call it whatever you want Tracy, I'm just saying not all Yankee fans feel they deserve a championship. Want one,expect one, yes. What fan of a good team doesn't? If you were a 25-30 yr old person who knows nothing but making the playoffs, and ownership telling you to expect championships every year, and anything less is failure, how  is that a fans fault for wanting that? It's all they know, and have been told to expect.

The higher standard part in my post was meant for how they're playing now, not how it might've come across as towards the rest of the league.

If they should win one with their payroll as you say, then why shouldn't a fan of the team expect it? Everyone  outside of their fan base does, why can't they? Expecting to win and felling they deserve to win are two entirely different things.  I certainly don't think because they spend that money they deserve to win a championship. I know a lot of Yankee fans who feel the exact way as I do. 

I get the Yankee hate, and  the money thing, but some of the rhetoric  comes off as sour grapes to me. Is there a sports fan out there who wouldn't want their team spending as much as the Yanks, or trying to put the best team possible on the field?  Anyone who says they wouldn't is  kidding themselves.

[ericm]

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[exist10z]

Couple things...

First an answer to the question - doesn't every fan want their team to spend as much as the Yankees and win every year?  There have certainly been times over the past miserable 15 years when I would have answered - yes!  But, having watched an underdog, unappreciated, unexpected team rise to the top, I would now answer - no!  This goes back to the question I asked earlier, how much fun can it be when you're expected to win?  How much fun can it be when you stack the deck in your favor?  Maybe fun, but I can't imagine it's AS MUCH fun.

I suppose the O's fans have booed at times over the past 15 years, more at the owner than the players (though they did give K.Gregg an unpleasant vocal shower on occasion), but I can't imagine O's fans ever booing this years team - ever.  No matter if the last game was at OPACY, and A.Jones continued his helpless flailing at the plate, I can't believe you would have heard a single boo.  We appreciated too much what this team had done for us and for the city.

I think this is what Tracy was saying.  You described it as 'expectations' eric, which is fine, but when you complain because your expectations aren't met, that's the definition of entitlement.  It's like the rich guy and his wife who go to the most exclusive restaurant in town, they are seated at the best table, have the best wine, eat delicious and perfectly prepared food, money has its privileges, but when desert comes, it isn't exactly as they expected, it isn't up to par (at least according to their inflated expectations), so they bitch at the waiter, leave a shitty tip, and tell all their friends the restaurant sucks.  If you don't know anyone like this, you haven't been around enough.  They are like Yankee fans.  The couple isn't thankful for the rest of the wonderful experience they had, they didn't really appreciate the food or impeccable service, because they expected that, they felt 'entitled' simply because of who they were and the money they had.

O's (Indians, Cubs?) fans are the guy who goes to a cheap little neighborhood restaurant, has an unexpectedly good meal despite spotty service, and can't stop talking about it for a month...

[Tracy 2112]

Couple things...

First an answer to the question - doesn't every fan want their team to spend as much as the Yankees and win every year?  There have certainly been times over the past miserable 15 years when I would have answered - yes!  But, having watched an underdog, unappreciated, unexpected team rise to the top, I would now answer - no!  This goes back to the question I asked earlier, how much fun can it be when you're expected to win?  How much fun can it be when you stack the deck in your favor?  Maybe fun, but I can't imagine it's AS MUCH fun.

I suppose the O's fans have booed at times over the past 15 years, more at the owner than the players (though they did give K.Gregg an unpleasant vocal shower on occasion), but I can't imagine O's fans ever booing this years team - ever.  No matter if the last game was at OPACY, and A.Jones continued his helpless flailing at the plate, I can't believe you would have heard a single boo.  We appreciated too much what this team had done for us and for the city.

I think this is what Tracy was saying.  You described it as 'expectations' eric, which is fine, but when you complain because your expectations aren't met, that's the definition of entitlement.  It's like the rich guy and his wife who go to the most exclusive restaurant in town, they are seated at the best table, have the best wine, eat delicious and perfectly prepared food, money has its privileges, but when desert comes, it isn't exactly as they expected, it isn't up to par (at least according to their inflated expectations), so they bitch at the waiter, leave a shitty tip, and tell all their friends the restaurant sucks.  If you don't know anyone like this, you haven't been around enough.  They are like Yankee fans.  The couple isn't thankful for the rest of the wonderful experience they had, they didn't really appreciate the food or impeccable service, because they expected that, they felt 'entitled' simply because of who they were and the money they had.

O's (Indians, Cubs?) fans are the guy who goes to a cheap little neighborhood restaurant, has an unexpectedly good meal despite spotty service, and can't stop talking about it for a month...

well said.

They showed a Yankees fan booing Granderson Saturday night after a K (that's the #8 guy in the line up, the day after he homered against the O's) and I thought, "What a spoiled, thankless, ass clown of a fan."
Entitlement gets you THAT << Booing your 8th spot hitter in the LCS the day after he homers and goes 2-3.

[ericm]

Sorry ex, gotta disagree. No way is complaining because your team didn't meet your expectations the same as feeling entitled to win or that you deserve to win because of the money  spent. You can spin the definitions however you want but expectations, and entitled/deserving are different things entirely.

To say all Yankee fans feel they're entitled/ deserve to win is not only unfair, but out right wrong.  For the record I have stated I don't agree with the booing, just understand some of the fans reasoning behind it. I know I have high expectations, but again,as a fan  I don't feel the Yanks deserve to win more than any other team because of those expectations,or the amount of money they spend. I'm not sure how many more times or ways I can say that.

To your point of the O's season, yes, it's always more fun to root for an underdog. I'm not disputing that, but would you rather have that underdog season or two or know your team is going to contend every year? Tough question, and very hard to quantify the levels of enjoyment,IMO. I can tell you this from my perspective, I get the same charge and anxiety in watching a Yankee playoff game now than I did when I first watched them make the playoffs in the 70's.

[Tracy 2112]

eric, are you a New Yorker or a bandwagon Yankee fan?

[ericm]

eric, are you a New Yorker or a bandwagon Yankee fan?

Born and raised right across the river in Jersey City, N.J. Until I moved down the Shore in the late 70's. A decent amount of Yankee fans here, but I'm far enough south that I'm closer to Philly, and have mostly Phillie fans where I live. I've been a Yankee fan since I first started following baseball in the late 60's,and when most of their games weren't even on tv. Caught many a game on the old transistor radio.

Definitely not a bandwagon fan,and probably why I've come to the defense of true Yankee fans. Trust me, us real fans don't care much for the band wagon jumpers either.  You'll never see me or one of my kids wearing a red, green pink, or any other wrong color Yankee cap.  The day the Yanks wear an alternate Jersey, or put names on their backs  might be the day I decide to stop watching. 

[iLikeBeer]

Just to pile on Yankee fans because it's fun, but I heard yesterday that ushers were tole to upgrade fans' seats to fill the empty expensive seats in the lower level?!      

[pawpaw]

Vogelsong was the man last night, gave our bullpen a much needed game off.

Still waiting to hear Scutaro's injury status - I'm not sure what the rule is for that play, and it was an overly aggresive, late slide, but it's also what Cards fans are probably calling an appropriate play today. Maybe it is, but one of our guys is hurt. I'm not sure if any rules were broken, I just hope he's on the field tomorrow though. I've read that Holliday was pretty remorseful after the fact, which means he probably feels that he went too far.  But it's done, and we've got to (and absolutely can) win this series with or without Scutaro at second.

Also, BH, I think Timmy's starting Game 4. Strong, back-to-back starts from Cain and Lincecum are what we need.

This thing's already smellin' like 7 games, and teams that are pissed at each other over hurt players makes for heightened drama. Game 3 starts at 1pm for us, so tomorrow afternoon will be a total waste at work, might as well just go to a bar instead.   

[ericm]

Just to pile on Yankee fans because it's fun, but I heard yesterday that ushers were tole to upgrade fans' seats to fill the empty expensive seats in the lower level?!      

Gonna take the high road here and not respond to the "fun" comment.

It's about time they did this if true. Those seats run an astounding $1,000-$1,500 a seat during the regular season, and have increased in price per round, to over $2,000 per now! I don't care that it's the biggest city in the country, but how many people are there who could afford that every game? Sure there are some rich cats out there, but how many of those are big time sports fans? Good for the average fan who got bumped up into these seats, and good on the Yanks for doing it.   

Lastly on the attendance issue at the stadium. They are saying 91% of the tix were sold, so that's not really as bad as some are making it seem. A big factor that people choose to ignore is the five games in five days deal. I don't care who you are or what team you root for, that's pretty hard to be able to go to all five of those games, both physically, and financially,IMO.

[pawpaw]

Eric, don't worry about these losers...haterz gunna hate. Anyway, it's not like the reason those fans were booing was because they're entitled Yankees fans. They were booing because they're New Yorkers. 

There is some truth to what all you guys are saying. Everone wins!

Hey, Eric, what do you think of the "new" Yankee Stadium?

[ericm]

Eric, don't worry about these losers...haterz gunna hate. Anyway, it's not like the reason those fans were booing was because they're entitled Yankees fans. They were booing because they're New Yorkers. 

There is some truth to what all you guys are saying. Everone wins!

Hey, Eric, what do you think of the "new" Yankee Stadium?

It's a beautiful MASSIVE structure. If you walk around the concourse starting in dead center, it is a one mile walk around the stadium to get back to the same spot! The things they have there for the fan to enjoy are amazing, and you could spend the day just checking everything out. Problem is, it has nothing to do with watching the game. It's  more like a tourist attraction for baseball fans.

I'm sure if I had those legend seats and access to the suites,or was a player who could take advantage of all the amenities, and state of the art things available to them, I'd love it.

It's too big for the average fan, and has lost the intimacy, and vibe of the old stadium,IMO. I don't like how they have separated the lower level field seats. There is no way to stand behind home plate, watch bp, or even walk around inside the stadium from foul pole to foul pole, unless you have one of those prime seats.It's as if they have created a have, and have not feel to the stadium. You can only get close behind home plate, or between the dugouts if you're a "have".  Hell, they even put the bleachers behind a reserved section in the outfield, and these things have definitely had a big negative impact on the hard core fan. No question it has contributed to how this place is no where near as loud as the old stadium. Most of the real hard cores are far away from the field. You can still hear them trying to make noise, but they're so far away,it's not nearly as loud.

If they do get back to the Stadium for game six, take a look at all the people in the camera's view between the dugouts. So may of them are on their phones, bullshitting with their friends next to them, or just not even paying attention to the game. It's almost like they're there just to be there, and to be seen,but not for the game itself.


I'm not giving up on this team yet. They're struggling big time no doubt, but have  had success vs Velander in the past. If they can somehow get this game, it's a brand new series with CC going tomorrow.

[exist10z]

Funny eric, how you described the crowd at the new Yankee stadium is almost exactly the way old school O's fans described the crowd at Camden Yards when it first opened.  People on cell phones, not paying attention to the game, quiet and only interested in 'the experience' as opposed to the game.  Of course they also said it was too expensive and the 'real' fans were being pushed out.  Most of this was pretty much true, as I suspect from an old school Yankee fan's perspective it is at Yankee Stadium.

This problem was 'solved' by fifteen years of losing 'thankfully'.  No one went to the games and it wasn't the hot spot to be, after the funeral pall descended on the team and consequently the stadium.  So if you really want to get rid of those 'entitled' and uninterested fans, all you need is 15 years of losing.  I would suggest lobbying ownership to stop buying wins...

[pawpaw]

Good news 

http://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/Marco-Scutaro-likely-to-play-in-Game-3-3954723.php

Scutaro cracked wise again when asked if he thought one of his pitchers would throw at Holliday, saying, "Ask them. I don't know. I just work here."

But when asked if he wanted retaliation, Scutaro got serious and said, "Yeah. I want them to throw a nine-inning shutout so we could win."

Hell yeah. That's the kind of retaliation we need! 3 hours till GAME 3!

[Ruckus]

I think I have a unique perspective as a former Yankee fan turned O's fan.  I know I know.  However, for all the shit I take, I refuse to believe in the "You can only be a fan of one team, your original team" crap.  I root for teams that I have a connection to.  When I moved to New York in 88, Don Mattingly was my favorite player.  I watched all the time as the Yanks had losing team after losing team.  Sadly Donnie Baseball never won a ring in Stripes.  Even the late 90s teams were fun to root for because of the classy, homegrown talent such as Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Williams and Pettite along with blue collar guys such as Brosius and O'Neill.  The Yanks won their 1st series since the 70's the year I moved to the Chicago area.and that sucked.

Between no longer living on Long Island and the Yanks resorting to the likes of Clemens, ARod, Giambi, etc., it became harder and harder root for a bunch of mercenaries.  I don't blame the Yankees for doing what they do but I find much greater enjoyment now rooting against them and for smaller market teams.  I must be a masochist like ILB, with the O's and Cubs like the Indians and Cubs.  For every douchy Yankee fan, I know many great ones that are very knowledgeable and respectful.  I feel for them...not really.

Suck it Eric!

[ericm]

Rob, I'll be sucking down that Piña Colada or maybe  a Grey Goose martini, thank you very much    

[Ruckus]

Rob, I'll be sucking down that Piña Colada or maybe  a Grey Goose martini, thank you very much    

Me and ynwa had a deal for the Mercyside Derby for T5 where the winner had to buy the loser an awful drink of their making.

I believe we came up with what was dubbed the Blue Turmoil and included blue curacao and a piece of chewed, well done steak.

[iLikeBeer]

Funny eric, how you described the crowd at the new Yankee stadium is almost exactly the way old school O's fans described the crowd at Camden Yards when it first opened.  People on cell phones, not paying attention to the game, quiet and only interested in 'the experience' as opposed to the game.  Of course they also said it was too expensive and the 'real' fans were being pushed out.  Most of this was pretty much true, as I suspect from an old school Yankee fan's perspective it is at Yankee Stadium.

This problem was 'solved' by fifteen years of losing 'thankfully'.  No one went to the games and it wasn't the hot spot to be, after the funeral pall descended on the team and consequently the stadium.  So if you really want to get rid of those 'entitled' and uninterested fans, all you need is 15 years of losing.  I would suggest lobbying ownership to stop buying wins...

When the Jake (Sorry, it will always be the Jake to me. Screw Larry Dolan for taking the money for naming rights from a corporate sponser) opened in Cleveland it too was THE ticket to have.  But the place was truly electric!  I think Cleveland fans were so hungry for a winner and having the Indians suddenly relevant for the first time in decades along with opening a new ball park was a perfect storm in Cleveland!  Of course, after a few years of winning, the wine and cheese corporate execs started taking over and the Jake started to lose some of that Jacobs Field Magic so prevalent in the early years. 

One thing that did suck compared to the 'good 'ol days' (using that term loosely  ) at the old cavernous Cleveland Municipal Stadium was that Indians tickets were suddenly hard to come by.  I remember many a summer afternoon where my friends and I would just be sitting around with nothing to do so we'd hop in the car and go up to catch a game.  Nothing like watching bad baseball in front of about 4000 fans in an 80,000 seat stadium?!       

And now, thanks to the Dolan family driving this franchise into the ground, those days are back!        And, at the end of this past season, you could actually go on stub-hub and find tickets BELOW face value?!     I even heard of some bleacher seats going for $.50 a piece!  Yes, two quarters!    

[BH]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8521991/st-louis-cardinals-verge-another-world-series-trip-deserve-bit-more-respect-mlb



The Man

[ms. yvon]

Good news 

http://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/Marco-Scutaro-likely-to-play-in-Game-3-3954723.php

Scutaro cracked wise again when asked if he thought one of his pitchers would throw at Holliday, saying, "Ask them. I don't know. I just work here."

But when asked if he wanted retaliation, Scutaro got serious and said, "Yeah. I want them to throw a nine-inning shutout so we could win."

Hell yeah. That's the kind of retaliation we need! 3 hours till GAME 3!

i didn't see this bbill.  great attitude from scutaro!
here we are at friday.  game 5.  ¡VAMANOS LOS GIGANTES!