DANGER! - Political Thread

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

You never know with Biden, he's a wild card, he's likely to say anything.

As for unions, they have been undermined since they began.  I assume you've read A People's History of The United States by Howard Zinn, and the documentary The Corporation is also great.

Bottom line, Capitalism, the corporate structure, is based on deriving the most profits possible, at any cost - which indicates less cost.  No company or CEO ever wanted unions, no stockholders ever wanted unions, no wealthy people ever wanted unions.  The whole system is set up to funnel money upwards.  The rise of unions only briefly slowed that down, but then they were able to use the Red Scare - and FEAR, of the Soviets, to demonize anything that could be tied to 'socialism' even tangentially.  Essentially anything that didn't benefit the bottom line was a socialist plot.

It's been a brilliantly devious concoction of fear and propaganda, psychology and theology (the socialist are atheists remember), with a dash of racism and xenophobia.

I think chomsky has indoctrinated both of us bruh. 

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

Instead of Red and Blue, maybe we should just go back to Gray and Blue, because that's pretty much how it is anyway.  Only thing is, the North won the far/North West and the South won the Central/North middle.  There could never be another civil war right...

Because that was like a hundred and fifty years ago, which in relation to human history is like forever, and because in this day and age people don't still kill people over these sorts of things do they?  There aren't civil wars in other countries or anything. I jest. I hope.

Seriously though, if you read response posts other places, there's some wild/fanatical/delusional people out there, and they have guns.  Of course we've all mentioned it, but the propoganda machine stirring them up just doesn't care.  Too many examples to mention.  Interestingly, O'Reilly just a couple days ago said something to the effect (pot, meet kettle) that there are those on the right who stir things up and are inflammatory just for the money and ratings.  Clearly we know this is true, but it was interesting coming from him.

see I don't agree with the red/blue defines entire regions of people thing.  in mr. whites case, he's a nice dude.  we even bro's on facebook (hit it up at stickyicky greenstuff) and that's why I don't want to be lazy and just say "oh the south is racist and pissed about the civil war, that's the reason".  it's much more complex and you know it my bruthur.

this is where I pivot.

fuck slavery, black folks have only been able to vote for the last 50years or so and people are still trying to suppress their voice.  that's almost worse.  it's 2012.  the black community is so united and powerful but in so many cases they aren't born into privilege.   it's just not the same for black folks in the US.  which is sad because they've been here as long as we've been killing indians. 

which brings us to something we need to really press until it starts to be discussed:

setting a living wage, not a minimum wage. a minimum wage is impossible to live off of, a living wage would cure the minimum wage flaws.  a minimum pay level that allows people to pay their rent, eat, get hospital care, and take care of their kids without having to worry about dying. or their family starving. 

a living wage is how you make an intensely strong middle class. 

[exist10z]

Yeah, I forgot to mention Chomsky...

No, I hope I didn't misrepresent my thoughts by over-generalizing (I often do), of course there's great people in the south and mid-west.  I am in Orange County right now, if these people could just kill the poor and melt them down to fuel their Range Rovers - they might, California is far from perfect, but as far as the electoral system, that's the way it's broken down.  It's broken down electorally as if the North/South had fought the civil war to a stalemate, and the South picked up a few mid/North-central western states and the North picked up the far/North West.

Yeah, a living wage would be great, but not only aren't we getting that under the Capitalist system, we have strong push back against the freaking MINIMUM WAGE by Republicans - that's just mind-blowingly malicious I don't know how they can sleep at night.  Again, it all comes back to the system.  Look at the 'socialist' democracies, for the most part - happy, happy, happy.  Here, angry, angry, angry.  The system is set up to promote consumption and division - you need more, the other guy is keeping you from getting it, everything is a competition.  It's ugly.

[johnnYYac]

Would anyone have interest in using the Roll Call chat room during tonight's vice-presidential debate?

You have to be a Roll Call member to access this, I'm afraid. 

Here's the link: http://mymorningjacket.com/chat

I'll open the chat room at 7:45 pm EDT, though anyone "opens" the chat room once they go to the link, so feel free to use it any time.

For those who don't have Roll Call but would like to participate in a chat, let us know of other suggestions. 

[Tracy 2112]

"Eye Of The Sparrow" — A Bad Lip Reading of the First 2012 Presidential Debate

[johnnYYac]

"Eye Of The Sparrow" — A Bad Lip Reading of the First 2012 Presidential Debate

That is some funny shit!

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

Would anyone have interest in using the Roll Call chat room during tonight's vice-presidential debate?

You have to be a Roll Call member to access this, I'm afraid. 

Here's the link: http://mymorningjacket.com/chat

I'll open the chat room at 7:45 pm EDT, though anyone "opens" the chat room once they go to the link, so feel free to use it any time.

For those who don't have Roll Call but would like to participate in a chat, let us know of other suggestions.

no.

[Shug]

I fucking LOVE it when I agree with you, Sticky!!! 

I think it matters this year how you vote for sure.  especially in a state like KY.  if there wasn't a douchebag prosecutor up for re-election here that's a democrat I'd probably just vote straight democrat and be done with it.  Obama has been winning and a third party candidate will not win the presidency so ultimately any vote that isn't for Obama helps Romney.

now the rest of the shit is a completely different story.  judges, sheriffs, ballot initiatives, etc. those are all things that we effect in a huge way by voting.  mostly because there is such a small number of the US public that votes.  when only 50-60percent (being generous) of the electorate votes in you're not going to get any type of consensus or feel what the entire country wants. 

and to your last comment exist, i'm sort of in the boat of getting rid of the electoral college all together.  first we'd need to make voting mandatory and then we could dissolve it.  after that it would be a lot much easier to get the money out of politics.  to end corporate personhood,  the power of lobbyists and special interests, etc.  it's too radical for most of the country and the argument people against it would make is that states like NY would become too powerful.  I'm not convinced that would happen if voting is mandatory and twice as many people are voting or are involved in the process.  if people don't support any of the candidates they should still have to cast a blank vote or something along those lines, imo.

and to your earlier point, the hatred towards Obama is 90percent drive by racism.  there's just no way around it.  "Obama's not christian enough, I'm voting for a mormon".  "Obama apologizes for the US, we never have to apologize".  "Obama wants to weaken our military!", etc etc.  these are all perception/emotional votes based on, well, personal bias.  it's not just the south either.  the biggest pivot I've noticed lately from romney supports is the military aspect of shit even tho Obama killed Bin Laden and like the top 30terrorists who were alive during his first few years. 

Romney doesn't have an argument or a real plan, at least not one that he's presented to we the people.  his numbers are bunk.  his original tax plan was proven to be bunk by economists.  really all it does it give the upper bracket a huge tax break and raise taxes on the rest of us.  the conservatives even had senors convinced Romney would be kinder to them when it comes to medicare and health insurance.  under romney's plan insurance companies are still allowed to deny you for pre-existing conditions, even tho he said in the debates that they weren't.  if you have insurance thru your job for example and you lose your job, you lose your insurance and can be denied.  that doesn't happen with obamacare.  romney brought up the "death panel" palin bullshit, when really it's just a board put in place to make sure premiums do not spike, they have no control over the quality of care.  or romney's lie that 23percent of the country is unemployed.  he included part time workers and senor citizens in that number.  it's lie after fucking lie.   

tomorrow night will be interesting.  hopefully biden lays the smack down on paul ryan, I fucking can't stand that little lying piece of shit.  I've got low expectations tho, Paul Ryan is sure to bs his way thru the entire thing, I just hope ol' Joe calls him on shit.

anybody who votes Romney or Republican, unless you're rich, you are voting against your own personal interest.  that's just how it is this year.  if you don't believe me  and think I'm being a liberal hack just look what Bush/Cheney did with the surplus they were given.  10trillion+ in debt by the end of their 8years and they started with a fairly juicy SURPLUS, people bitch at obama for the 5 or 6trillion he had to drop to invest, bail out, and essentially fix a runaway train that was flying off the tracks taking the entire world with it.  now they want to put fuckers in power who are worse than the bush/cheney style repubs.  the 2010 congress is the most bullshit group of people I've ever seen in my life run this country.  it's sad and embarassing, to think any normal, working day person would want to give those douchebags the keys back is beyond me.  I'll never be able to vote republican again after bush->2010->this years voter suppression tactics.  they are a party of bigotry and racism, that is without a doubt true.

[el_chode]

Sticky you have elected prosecutors there? I can't imagine doing my job if I were elected.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

Sticky you have elected prosecutors there? I can't imagine doing my job if I were elected.

county prosecutor is elected every whatever many years.   they buddy up with the sheriffs all the way up to the judges, etc.  here they've been going against marijuana hardcore reagan style lately.  it's fucked.  we had multiple votes and shit was approved by the citizens.  the cops/prosecutors/judges are fuckers here. 

[el_chode]

Sticky you have elected prosecutors there? I can't imagine doing my job if I were elected.

county prosecutor is elected every whatever many years.   they buddy up with the sheriffs all the way up to the judges, etc.  here they've been going against marijuana hardcore reagan style lately.  it's fucked.  we had multiple votes and shit was approved by the citizens.  the cops/prosecutors/judges are fuckers here.

As imperfect as it is, that is also why I prefer appointed officials in law enforcement. They may be cronies, but they're typically consistent cronies.

This article highlights my biggest beef. I'm glad our judges here in NJ are appointed...even the ones I don't agree with.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/would-you-trust-these-state-justices-to-review-your-case/262480/

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

Sticky you have elected prosecutors there? I can't imagine doing my job if I were elected.

county prosecutor is elected every whatever many years.   they buddy up with the sheriffs all the way up to the judges, etc.  here they've been going against marijuana hardcore reagan style lately.  it's fucked.  we had multiple votes and shit was approved by the citizens.  the cops/prosecutors/judges are fuckers here.

As imperfect as it is, that is also why I prefer appointed officials in law enforcement. They may be cronies, but they're typically consistent cronies.

This article highlights my biggest beef. I'm glad our judges here in NJ are appointed...even the ones I don't agree with.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/would-you-trust-these-state-justices-to-review-your-case/262480/

I wish shit was legit here.  Oakland County Michigan is was one of the wealthiest counties in the entire country.  it use to be like 3rd.  I'm pretty sure that's why shit's all fucked.  it's a micro example of the large picture of things.

[exist10z]

With the lies flying, the gloves come off...

[headhunter]

With the lies flying, the gloves come off...

why were there no questions asked about abortion rights in the debate last night?

[johnnYYac]

Binders of Women... a Mormon love story.

[Tracy 2112]

[Jon T.]

sorry to sidetrack here, but if "binder" read "blender" that would be awesome.  That's all.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

Old image by Alex Grey

that is a bad ass picture for sure.  I'd like to see the romney robot version of it. 

[pawpaw]

You want badass?! Paul Ryan will give you badass!!!



What a douche! 

[Kenny76]

I am happy to have read some very good arguments for why it's best to vote for "the lesser of two evils".  I still understand the "vote your conscience" argument... I voted for the Green Party ticket in both 2000 and 2004... but I think it's a weaker argument today, especially given that the differences between Romney and Obama are greater than the differences between Bush and Gore were... and in retrospect, the differences between Bush and Gore seem pretty great now.

I get that it's difficult to vote for any candidate that doesn't have the same convictions, and worse, may be guilty of things that you consider evil (are either Obama or Romney going to stop Monsanto? sadly, not a chance.), but I think we have a duty to stop greater evils when we have that choice.

I happened to have recently published an article about 'third parties' and their current usefulness... and this looks like (basically is) shameless self-promotion, but it's directly related to this conversation, so here it is:  http://kennethpauloconnor.com/articles/why-third-parties-havent-earned-their-place-on-the-national-stage.html