Song Writing

[ffghtrs]

Anyone got any suggestions to get better at song writing?  lyrically i got nothing but i can play the guitar semi well and i jam with a friend but i've never been very good at putting progressions together or riffs or anything.  I love music and i would love to create some fun songs that i can play with some friends.

Fun songs i like to play, Hey joe (first song i ever learned over ten years ago), Run Thru, How to Fight Loneliness,  The Late Greats, over the hills and far away, and random blues jams based around the 12 bar blues that i tweaked to my liking. 

[Mr. White]

I can't write songs (or play anything other than trumpet), but my brother, my cousins and my best friend from high school do a great job at it. The way they started was to take songs we already loved and re-write the words to make it funny (kind of like Weird Al). I think that gave them a little confidence for when it came to creating their own songs later...just a thought...

[Jaimoe]

Here's a few things that helped me out:

- learn as many chords as you can

- Learn how to sing and play at the same time

- Avoid compromising a good song with long solos (save that for live); Phish, the Dead and Allmans kept the core of their songs fairly tight

- Play up to your strengths. If you aren't solid as a singer, or lyricist or even coming up with a good chorus and/or verse, then perhaps you need a collaborator or two.

- And keep in mind that not everyone is a songwriter. You may have a keen ear for what sounds good, like a producer, arranger, interpreter or a non-songwriting leader of a band does (Duane Allman, Sinatra, Ricky Skaggs) - and that's just as important.

[oistheone]

One thing that really helped me take a leap forward in my songwriting was to stop picking up a guitar in hopes of writing a song, and instead waiting until songs came to me. Anytime a melody, a hook, a bassline, a riff, ANYTHING pops in to my head, I whip out my phone and RECORD THAT SHIT. Doesn't matter if it's on the subway, at 3am after I wake up to take a pee, at my desk at work -- just get it recorded! Same goes for a lyric idea -- if it comes, WRITE IT DOWN! The mind works in funny ways and sometimes bursts of inspiration will come to you, but if you don't get it down there's a good chance it'll never come again.

Once you've got an "idea", you can pick up an instrument, figure out what key you hummed the melody in (or riff, or hook or whatever) and work out the chords from there. Then you can build the song! I also like to try and complete a song while the initial inspiration is still there, while I'm still into it. Then you've got a rewarding "final product" to put in your songbook, and you can move on to the next one!

[MamaKel]

Quite honestly, I say copy the masters until you develop your own style.  Whether it's writing a song or painting a picture, you have to copy the styles of the greatest creators of that form until your voice comes through...as Picasso says "Your first mistake is your first stroke as an artist"

What I've done throughout my life is that I would listen to a musician I loved over and over and over again...while writing out their lyrics, so that the song tempo becomes like syntax.  Once you can get a grasp on how the music provides a soundscape for these painted words, it's almost like synesthesia occurs.

I think I started out doing this with The Doors when I was 13.  I noticed how Jim Morrison had all of these earthy metaphors and Native American references, and mentioned all these old writers like Aldous Huxley and William Blake, so I just started reading about everything he referenced.  And each time I did that, I became more informed about his perspective, and I could start to create my own style by adopting his.  I did this over and over again...with Bob Dylan, Robert Hunter and Jerry Garcia, Jack Kerouac, a TON of hip-hop artists...and the more I did it, the easier it was to put words to the variety of rhythms that were playing in my head...because you begin to have kind of a rhythmic dictionary.

One thing Bob Dylan did a lot was that he would go sit at a coffee shop and look at people and think about what kinds of songs the people he saw would want to hear...just writing down adjectives and phrases until it took on a life and description of its own.

I have a ton of really cool writing exercises I sometimes play if you're interested.

[ffghtrs]

Dude, that is so awesome that you guys responded so quickly, i greatly appreciate all of your tips. 
Mamakel I would love to hear about some of your writing exercises, I think it would be helpful, two that I remember from a class I took on improv and writing in highschool was to write down twenty or so words and then use them in a story. Something like five adjectives, five nouns etc.   Also my creative writing teacher in college said I want a story about a pyro maniac, there has to be a fire in one part of your story.  Cracked me up, I ran with that, and have written short stories about devastation, about pyromaniacs and about a simple bonfire with good friends.  Rambling my bad.
Oistheone, I've been meaning to get a tape recorder for years because I think of stories and jokes and song melodies all the time.  While driving or reading or studying, then I never write them down and boom they are gone like the wind.  I've got to get one. 
Jaimoe the chords thing is so evident in playing I think you are on to something.  I use a lot of inverted chords my friend charted out for me.  It's good times.  But when I started playing when I was 11 I could play a chord once and it would be in my head.  Now 14 years later it's killing me to remember new chords.  I'm sure it's the massive amounts of beer I guzzled as a young twenty something.  Also I got to say that the best jam bands have brilliant song writing at the core, the only band that you listed, that I love but have a problem with is Phish, they are so great but sometimes they just get lost in what they are doing and it doesn't  sound good.   Other times they play the most danceable, fun, melodic and brilliant piece of jam rock and your mind and emotions are blown away.  Still pissed I never saw them live. 
Mr. White your idea is brilliant and fun, I love weird al and I love jamming on my favorite bands material.  It's 4 am and I just put the guitar down like twenty minutes ago.  I love winter break!  Thanks.
I just wanted to show my gratitude you guys are killer people, I love how genuine the MMJ fans are, I was at both nights of Red Rocks this summer and met a man named Trevor and he and I kept running into each other and I hope to see him again in Colorado.  Thanks again, hope to hear from more mmj fans too!  Everyone's input is welcome!

[MamaKel]

You can use that same idea of using parts of speech...while looking at famous paintings.  Take Picasso's "Blue Guitarist" for example.  Write down 15 adjectives, verbs, nouns, etc.  Then play with the formations. 

Something that I find interesting is to do image searches of words or ideas that keep popping up in my head.  Once you find a picture that you find to be 'meditative' or 'thought provoking', study it for a while, and think about a piece of music that would fit that picture.  Play that piece of music.  Then, while looking at the picture, come up with a one-syllable word to describe it...then two syllables, three syllables and so on.  At any time, you can also break the syntax down...so instead of a 3 syllable word, you use a two-syllable and one-syllable together.  What you find, if you practice this enough, is that you are basically writing lyrics to a beat.  And listening to music while doing this exercise helps establish a flow in your mind.

You can also take a thought, like "I'm feeling really sad today", and think about how to say it in a blues manner, a rock n' roll manner, a reggae manner, a metal manner, etc.  Then, to put your own spin on it, you just tweak it...For example, in the blues, they're always referring to being sad, as being "Lowdown", so you come up with something in your head that you think of as low...like "I'm so lowdown, I can see John Edwards smiling in hell above"...I don't know why I thought that.  But it's original!!!  Hahahahaha!

Lemme know if you wanna start a writing game thread, and we can all play together! 

[LeanneP]

Another songwriting technique is to write letters to people that never get sent. Write letters to imaginary people. Write letters to yourself, talking to yourself as if you are a separate person from yourself...  Those letters will contain lots of stories and phrases and get you producing writing. It might not help with melody or song structure, but sometimes starting from the words can help.

When I listen to MMJ, a lot of his songs sound like letters he's written to himself or friends or lovers present and past.

[ffghtrs]

MamaKel and Leanne i appreciate both comments and suggestions very much, the quality of people i discover on this website and in recent life events is blowing my mind, great people almost angelic like are blessing my life with good vibrations.  all that and i'm not even that religious, also MamaKel writing game thread would be awesome.  i think that would be enjoyable for all involved and could definitely stimulate the inner poet in my dying to get out.  thanks again everyone and happry Christmas.

[sweatboard]

The only advice I can give is to keep strumming chords until they feel like you feel in that moment and then try and sing (in words) the emotions you are feeling inside of tbe moment that YOU just created.