I learned a valuable lesson today.

[ManNamedTruth]

So there's this chick I used to work with who I've kept semi-in touch with over the years through facebook and an occasional text. I've been trying to go out for a drink with her, since she recently got back from a few months in Europe. Today she finally mentions that she has a boyfriend and that its someone I know, and invited me to hang out with them. I told her that I didn't think it was a good idea, and apologized for not being clear of my intentions for a date.

Here's where it get's interesting as she drops another bombshell, and a slew of text messages ensues. She said she didn't think I liked her like that because she used to date my friend "J" (who I also used to work with). Here's the twist: my friend "J" is one of my best friends who always give me a big hug when I see him, and I had no idea they ever dated. She goes on to tell me that they saw each other on and off for 4 years, and he never introduced her to his friends or family or wanted to meet hers, but assumed I knew about it. She even tells me she lost her virginity to him (she's 24 now) and that he was just using her for sex. But she assumed I knew about all this and wanted to keep her distance from me. She says it broke her heart, I told her it broke my heart to hear, and wished I could've been there for her. She told me if I would've asked her out before her current boyfriend that she would've been flattered and said yes. That just made me feel worse, sick inside. It's not like I waited a long time to get in touch since she arrived home. She also said she'd consider me in the future if her current relationship didn't work out. After all that she still wanted me to be her friend and hang out sometime, i told her i couldn't promise her I wouldn't still have feelings or get jealous. She mentioned she wants to hang out because we have similar interests, I told her I think we have more in common than just interests. Eventually she admitted it wasn't fair for her to ask me to be her friend. So basically it's a stalemate right now. I think we both learned a valuable lesson today, don't ever assume and be forward with what you want in life!

So this closes my rant. I needed a semi-anonymous place to vent since I can't go to one of my friends, since it directly involves one of them. Obviously I can't trust anyone else right now, so thanks for your time if you actually read this. Obviously I know there are people with bigger problems in life so I hope I don't come off as whiny.

[exist10z]

I read it.

That's a bummer man.  Sounds like you took a good lesson from it though, maybe this is a case where the lesson is more important/better than what the outcome of the actual event would have been.  Let's hope so.  You only go around once, and the older you get the shorter you realize it is, so that lesson - doing the things you want to do and taking chances, is invaluable.

[ManNamedTruth]

I read it.

That's a bummer man.  Sounds like you took a good lesson from it though, maybe this is a case where the lesson is more important/better than what the outcome of the actual event would have been.  Let's hope so.  You only go around once, and the older you get the shorter you realize it is, so that lesson - doing the things you want to do and taking chances, is invaluable.

For sure man. Life is too short, and fucked up these days and you don't know when its gonna end, and I don't want to waste it. As much as it was a lot to take in all at once I'm glad she opened up and told me everything.

[MamaKel]

First of all, she has referenced "if it doesn't work out she'll consider you" and "we have similar interests, we should hang out"...girls don't say that if they feel like they're with the right guy.  Also, apologizing for suggesting that you should be friends, is her recognition that if she were to hang out with you in the future, that it would be in a romantic way. But in general, you aren't looking to hang out with other dudes who haven't already been in your life, if you aren't bored with your current relationship.  Just saying...

Secondly, how important is this "friend" of yours that broke her heart?  Because you have to realize that as long as he is around, there is going to be problems that are inadvertently dragged into your relationship.  If she is still hurt, that means there are unresolved issues, which means that you would have to be the diplomat, which is not a really sexy position to be in. That shit gets exhausting, and if you're into this girl, you don't really want to be constantly thinking about your friend getting with her. 

But, if you're into her, I say get INTO the friend zone, and see what happens.  Don't get so far into the friend zone where she starts talking to you about all her relationship problems and shit.  Get into the friend zone where you are the fun, interesting one who she shares everything in common with.  She'll figure out what she wants if you play it cool, and show her what she's missing.

[MamaKel]

P.S. Life is short...but you also have to think about other people.  Whatever you do, make sure that she has left the relationship that she is in before making a move.  Otherwise, your relationship is starting on shaky ground, and those problems will persist throughout your relationship.  I'm not saying not to throw the lure into the water...I'm just saying, once you catch her, try to make sure she's not about to get eaten by something that's going to break your pole. Literally and figuratively.

Be safe out there, gang.

[ManNamedTruth]

First of all, she has referenced "if it doesn't work out she'll consider you" and "we have similar interests, we should hang out"...girls don't say that if they feel like they're with the right guy.  Also, apologizing for suggesting that you should be friends, is her recognition that if she were to hang out with you in the future, that it would be in a romantic way. But in general, you aren't looking to hang out with other dudes who haven't already been in your life, if you aren't bored with your current relationship.  Just saying...

Secondly, how important is this "friend" of yours that broke her heart?  Because you have to realize that as long as he is around, there is going to be problems that are inadvertently dragged into your relationship.  If she is still hurt, that means there are unresolved issues, which means that you would have to be the diplomat, which is not a really sexy position to be in. That shit gets exhausting, and if you're into this girl, you don't really want to be constantly thinking about your friend getting with her. 

But, if you're into her, I say get INTO the friend zone, and see what happens.  Don't get so far into the friend zone where she starts talking to you about all her relationship problems and shit.  Get into the friend zone where you are the fun, interesting one who she shares everything in common with.  She'll figure out what she wants if you play it cool, and show her what she's missing.

I was the one that asked if she'd give me a chance if it doesn't work out, but only after she brought up the fact that she would go out with me if she wasn't currently seeing anyone. Anyway i'm not holding my breath or anything, but i don't exactly have other options lined up. The just friends thing has plagued me in the past. I really don't know how to handle the friends just hanging out thing, if the boyfriend is around I'm afraid I'd make things awkward, and he's a good guy I've known for a long time, graduated HS with him. My friend "J" is in a serious relationship right now living with someone, he would never try to sleep with her again, for that part I'm not worried about. There would definitely still be complications though, she might feel uncomfortable around him, though she says she's over it now. If I ever do start seeing her, surely me and him would have to have a talk.
Some more insight into "J" - a former girlfriend of "J" cheated on him with another one of our friends. It destroyed they're friendship, but the two eventually got married so it wasn't just something they did for kicks or whatever. I'm not sure if it all lines up in the right time frame, but maybe that was his way of venting after what happened to him.
Thanks for the insight!

Edit: also i don't know what she was trying to suggest by being friends, but she was clear that she wouldn't cheat on him.

[Fully]

Well, it looks like you can't do anything but wait and see.    Mamakel does raise some good points. Who knows how serious this relationship she's in is. Give it some time, go find something else to occupy yourself, and see if she comes back on the market. If she does, make your move. And sweep her off her feet or just impress her enough that she's open to being swept.

[MamaKel]

Yeah...I'd kinda just play it cool.  Y'know...respect her relationship, but if you think of something interesting or see something she'd like, send her a message somehow.  When you do things from the heart, things have a way of working themselves out, even when you don't think they are.  But most of all, do the things that interest you most, and put yourself out there.  You'll be amazed at the opportunities that arise out of being genuine.

[MamaKel]

Amen, Fully.

Well, it looks like you can't do anything but wait and see.    Mamakel does raise some good points. Who knows how serious this relationship she's in is. Give it some time, go find something else to occupy yourself, and see if she comes back on the market. If she does, make your move. And sweep her off her feet or just impress her enough that she's open to being swept.

[Paulie_Walnuts]

I think MamaKel's advice is spot on. I certainly wouldn't want to hang out with her and her boyfriend....no way. Hang out with her on your own if the opportunity arises, but not in a forced way.

MamaKel's advice is so good it makes her sound rather attractive herself.......

[Penny Lane]

i sorta have the opposite advice..

keep your distance, respect their relationship..you're not doing yourself any favors hanging around this girl and her BF. if you have feelings, then it's only going to hurt you. if they break up, she'll come around back to you. in the meantime, move in another direction. life's short, don't torture yourself.

oh and she'd have a number of reasons to say that to you, perhaps she was being kind, maybe she meant it, maybe she wants to string you along, ...you have no idea. 

bottom line: she's got a boyfriend, walk away..keep your friendships with the dudes in tact--focus on actions not words..stop texting her...better for everyone, mostly you

[Tracy 2112]

don't ever assume and be forward with what you want in life!

there you have it

[Fully]

Penny said much better what I was trying to say. She's absolutely right.

[ManNamedTruth]

i sorta have the opposite advice..

keep your distance, respect their relationship..you're not doing yourself any favors hanging around this girl and her BF. if you have feelings, then it's only going to hurt you. if they break up, she'll come around back to you. in the meantime, move in another direction. life's short, don't torture yourself.

oh and she'd have a number of reasons to say that to you, perhaps she was being kind, maybe she meant it, maybe she wants to string you along, ...you have no idea. 

bottom line: she's got a boyfriend, walk away..keep your friendships with the dudes in tact--focus on actions not words..stop texting her...better for everyone, mostly you

Yeah I think I need to stay away from mamakel's suggested "friend zone", I've spent too much time in the friend zone already in my life. It would just be torturing myself if we tried to hang out I think. She seemed pretty genuine about everything she said, she didn't have to go in to all the details that she did, so I don't think she would say anything just to be nice Penny (you mean about being friends or going out with me if she wasn't seeing anyone?) I made it clear that I'm here if she wants me, I don't have any moves 'til then.

[Penny Lane]

i sorta have the opposite advice..

keep your distance, respect their relationship..you're not doing yourself any favors hanging around this girl and her BF. if you have feelings, then it's only going to hurt you. if they break up, she'll come around back to you. in the meantime, move in another direction. life's short, don't torture yourself.

oh and she'd have a number of reasons to say that to you, perhaps she was being kind, maybe she meant it, maybe she wants to string you along, ...you have no idea. 

bottom line: she's got a boyfriend, walk away..keep your friendships with the dudes in tact--focus on actions not words..stop texting her...better for everyone, mostly you

Yeah I think I need to stay away from mamakel's suggested "friend zone", I've spent too much time in the friend zone already in my life. It would just be torturing myself if we tried to hang out I think. She seemed pretty genuine about everything she said, she didn't have to go in to all the details that she did, so I don't think she would say anything just to be nice Penny (you mean about being friends or going out with me if she wasn't seeing anyone?) I made it clear that I'm here if she wants me, I don't have any moves 'til then.

i meant she could have told you that you'd be no 2 in line for many reasons, none of which you know. F the friend zone...that's for friends you don't want to have sex with at some point..that's NOT where you want to be. Guys (and girls) spend way too much time in the uncertain friend zone when there are so many awesome girls out there who want to be in the 'mannamedtruth is badass guy i wanna date!' zone...

i'm SURE she wants to stay friends with you...who wouldn't want to keep a male friend around who has feelings for her? Makes her feel good, makes you feel like sh*t...(most of the time)

i know this is harsh...it's what i've learned...NEVER GET IN THAT FRIEND ZONE--because unlike a jennifer aniston movie--that stuff never happens in real life....

mannamedtruth--good luck...we're here for ya!

[joey_rogo]

I'm REALLY good at finding the friend zone.

[MamaKel]

Whoa whoa whoa! I'm don't mean to be a creeper cheater!!! I said to be respectful...but be genuine.  If something or someone keeps popping in your head, it's our job to listen to that voice and figure out what it means, without disrespecting other people.  My initial comments only applied to the original scenario.  If I were him, I'd get into other things until I found a more suitable situation.

And by the way, I am also the queen of the friend zone...but I like it that way.  I think relationships are way better when you start out as friends.  It fosters respect, appreciation, and understanding...before all the other stuff gets in the way.  What's so bad about being friends?  I've never just gone out on a date with a stranger.  THAT is weird to me.  Like, I have absolutely no reason to trust that person. 

But again, I am on the Penny Lane side of this issue about being respectful to someone's relationship. That's what I meant by playing it cool. Let her decide her own feelings.  Don't be the person that comes along and fucks it up.  What I'm saying is to be the first thing she thinks of when she thinks of the alternative.

I'm sorry, but if you wait a while to tell someone that you've had regular contact with, that you have a boyfriend, it's because you don't want them to know.  And girls always play the "but hey you should meet him, and hang out with us" card, because they still want you around, but can't do it secretly, because then they are doing something wrong.  If she was being respectful of her boyfriend, and knew you had feelings, she should've said, "I'm not interested in you romantically because I have a boyfriend, and if you have feelings for me, that's not fair to you...so maybe it's a better idea to not see each other until we have figured out what we want."

[joey_rogo]

And by the way, I am also the queen of the friend zone...but I like it that way.  I think relationships are way better when you start out as friends.

Agreed 10000%

Seems like most people don't work that way though.

[MamaKel]

Just not the RIGHT ones, JoRo!!! The one you want/need will happen naturally, according to how you operate...

And by the way, I am also the queen of the friend zone...but I like it that way.  I think relationships are way better when you start out as friends.

Agreed 10000%

Seems like most people don't work that way though.

[MamaKel]

Also, my most important piece of advice, don't take advice.  Especially from someone like me who is a notorious relationship failure.  I now have the "life is for living alone", solitary mindset...so my perspective may not suit your needs, my friend.