my $.02 on Z

[Danko71]

So I've listened to it twice now. There's a lot of really good stuff on here, some that hasn't really impressed me. Mass/critial reaction is gonna be VERY interesting. I like the new direction, but some of the sounds, mainly keys and drum machine, just aren't very convincing. Some of the keys are very cheap sounding, notably the organ. Jim's voice is on the money as usual, and you can easily distinguish his lead guitar from Carl's, which is to say Jim is the better soloist as far as I can tell. More taste and personality. I'll keep listening but it's a curious album to say the least.

[TheLink]

i think the "cheapness" was intentional.  they are still pure and adding too much production would ahve ruined it for me.  I am a diehard TF and AD lover, but i do like this album better than ISM.  

[ycartrob]

please define how something sounds "cheap" (you might have to put more than your 2 cents in  :o). Can you give me another album, perhaps by another artist, that sounds cheap? I have not heard Z, so I have no reference point.

[Danko71]

Well if you haven't heard the album it's hard to explain. To me the organ didn't sound real, but like a patched in electric keyboard tone. Some of the tones didn't bother me, but some just didn't sound as warm as they have on their other records. I can see the argument that it was intentionally cheap, but I don't buy it when they can afford to wheel in a sweet vintage Hammond, Rhodes or classy grand piano. I guarantee you'd hear a difference if that's what they did; just compare it to any Stones or Kinks or whatever and you'll see what I mean. Nothing wrong with the playing though, and the strings/synth tones were cool.
And I still don't get the drum machine. It just doesn't add anything, not like it did with Cobra.

[The Boar]

Are you talking about one song in particular, Danko? Or the whole album?

P.S., if you're posting from beyond the grave, I really dig your singing...

[tomEisenbraun]

ok, can you point to anything on off the record?

Thats up on mySpace, and I think I can hear what your pointing to. The keys on it sound a little brittle and like their pushing, almost caliope-ish. But i think thats a cool sound, makes it a little eerie. And i like the different kind of soundscape that the drum machine adds on that track at the end. Where its just so mechanical and everything aorund has so much soul to it, its kind of a musical irony of sorts.

i likee what i've heard so far

[aMillionDreams]

i don't understand how you are distinguishing between guitar solos.  Why do you assume that Jim is playing the more complicated riffs?  I understand what you are saying about the keys but I wouldn't call them cheap, but that's my $.02

Personally I would stop trying to compare this album with their previous efforts.  One of the main differences to my ears is the lack of reverb, perhaps that is the "warmth" that you are referring to.

[TheLink]

i just don't think it was made cheap.  it is how they wanted it for some reason.  that is them.  like it or not.  have an opinion, but let's not go overboard on keys and such.  the album sounds good to me and a enjoy the "cheap" sounds.  peace. ;)

[The Boar]

(Link, I love that first lyric at the bottom of your message, not to mention the song as a whole. It's too bad that it looks like Mark Kozelek won't be doing a cover of that song.)

[ycartrob]

Still not sure what you mean here. The Replacements LET IT BE is one of my favorite albums. It is "cheap" (ie, instruments, production, etc..) however, the sound is priceless. Do you feel cheated that the sound isn't "bigger" or that they did not spend enough money on instruments? Never heard music referred to as "cheap". Give Tom Waits a broom and he can produce more artistic feeling than a band like BLINK 182, who can have all the nicest, finest instruments on the planet. IMO  :-*

[TheLink]

(Link, I love that first lyric at the bottom of your message, not to mention the song as a whole. It's too bad that it looks like Mark Kozelek won't be doing a cover of that song.)

isaac brock is def a great songwriter with an original outlook on life.  does suck that my other favorite singer want be covering it.  >:( later dude.

[Danko71]

I should've known better than to speak my mind on this board. At least a few of you are open to debate. All I know is what I heard, and many of you are missing the point. Again, that's to be expected; god forbid I cross into borderline negativity.
I've heard better organ sounds is all I was saying; which to me sounded 'cheap' compared to, say, the Small Faces, which I'm listening to right now, which is fat, nasty and smooth. Not cheap and thin. That's it.
As far as lead guitar, when I saw them earlier in the summer, Jim was taking more solos, and I thought they were generally better than Carl's; not that his were particularly weak. And I noticed Jim's tone and phrasing more on the record, which was a pleasant surprise since I love to hear him cut loose. Nothing to do with how complicated the riffs are.
I swear, you people crack me up.

[realdeal]

yeah, some of these people crack me up too. its good to hear someone who doesn't like something about this band. there are those who think everything about this band is just so wonderful and are afraid to disagree. most of the songs i have heard from 'z' sound like a joke. especially the end to "wordless chorus" and the one about "babies in a blender", wtf is that? its neither funny nor pleasent. are there any fucking drums on this record? the production sounds worse than ISM.

[Danko71]

Yeah man, I hear ya. I can't say I agree with everything you said about the album, but I can see where you're coming from.
Again, the response will be interesting. I can see a lotta diehards running to the hills with their hands over their ears (but none will post here about it, not for long, anyway)...while many will buy into their growing myth and hop on the rising tide and claim it to be a masterpiece.
I'm still not sure what I think about it, which was qualified in THE FIRST SENTENCE OF THIS POST, but merely throwing some thoughts out.
Forgive me if I'm not up on the song titles, but some of it's as good as anything they've done, some of it is easily their worst material I've heard on record, some of it sounds like retreads from other previous, better songs, some of it's entirely different than anything they've done.
Whoa is me, I don't know. Have good weekends everyone.

[PapaJoeBear]

Out of curiousity, are you listening to the final mix of the album or mp3's of the leaked version?  Just think that the keys wouldn't sound as good on a pre-mastered mp3 then they would with the final thing.  

Just a thought
papaJoeBear

[ycartrob]

Danko, I could give a zippity-doo-dah if you like Z or not; thousands will love it, thousands will hate it. I was trying to figure out what "cheap" meant. Be as negative as you want, but try not to be so vague next time. I understand you don't like the album as much as others, great. But your use of the word "cheap" leaves it wide open for me to bring other recordings that sound "cheap" that people consider to be masterpieces. Or are YOU the one who has the definitive say on what good music is? You're the one? Cool. I need you to come to my house and listen to all 22 of my RUSH cd's so I can know how "little" I understand about music and what I need to learn. Give me a break man. It's just music, don't get all uppitty about your opinion, as if you have the last word on what is good. I swear, the older I get, the less I can tolerate somoene who is going to tell me what sounds good and what doesn't. It's all subjective man, and if you go to a band's web site and insult the music, what do you expect, people to sit back and go, "Well, Danko must know, so maybe MMJ's new album isn't that great?" It doesn't work like that silly. There will always be people who will defend their favorite bands, so what? You think talking bad, talking about the "growing myth" is gonna make people take you a coming across as anything but negative? That Small Faces album you're listening to SUX ASS! Did I accomplish anything? No. It's just music...This is a waste of my time. Please send me a list of music I should own and who I should go see live. Thanks.

[The Boar]

I need you to come to my house and listen to all 22 of my RUSH cd's

Can I come too? That sounds like a kickin' party.

[ratsprayer]

i see both sides here.  the comment was a bit vague, so some people asked for clarification.  there are a number of people here that wont say one negative thing though, and yes that is a bit annoying, but everyone has an opinion.  personally in regards to Z, most of the people ive chatted with agree that it will take some time to adjust to, and a lot of people wont like it for a long time, or not at all.  personally, i still dont give a damn for 'anytime'.  i think 'gideon' and 'what a wonderful man' are somewhat mediocre.  i like 'what a wonderful man' live though, so we'll just see how some of them sound at the shows.  i gots nothing but love for bo and the keys he provides, theyre fucking great.  maybe its because theyre less guitar driven now?  are they not indie enough?  did they sell out because they used a proper studio?  out of kentucky?  ive also noticed a decent amount of disdain for ISM.  are some of you really professing so much love for MMJ based on half of their recorded material?  you cant like it all, but man....

[EC]

I'm sure I crack some of you up all the fucking time, and perhaps that's all good if you're laughing.

I still don't understand why it makes you SO DAMN UPSET if people AREN'T saying bad things.  I just. don't. get. it.

But whatever, I'm fucking excited about this record, so who cares! :D

p.s.  Can I come to the Rush party, too?  ;)

[ycartrob]

I think what pushed me over the edge was when Danko posted "it's a curious album". AAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Living in Nashville (you know, Music City?) I am bombarded with musical snobbery and one-up-manship that I could just puke. There's a bit of the indie sell out crap that goes on (a whole faction of people who hate Kings of Leon, based solely on their success). It's just music folks. If you say, "Z is a bit cheap at times yet it's curious", I am going to wonder what the fuck you're talking about, cuz it sure doesn't sound like you're talking about rock and roll man, it sounds more like you're talking about some skank whore asking for directions.


I have to be careful not to preach
I can't pretend that I can teach,
And yet I've lived your future out
By pounding stages like a clown.
And on the dance floor broken glass,
And bloody faces slowly pass,
The numbered seats in empty rows,
It all belongs to me you know.

Pete Townsend