Stairway / Oregon Trail?

[aMillionDreams]

Attn: NYE Attendees

So what was the conclusion to the whole Oregon Trail / Stairway to Heaven thing?  I thought Jim promised a follow-up to last year's craziness in his email.  I haven't read any reports about it yet.

[vespachick]

Well, aside from turning up in gloriously fab white suits at the new year like TTT did in heaven in 06: nothing. :-/  

[aMillionDreams]

hmm... that's what I gathered.  Weird. I guess it didn't pan out.  Or maybe they're saving it.



To tell the truth, I was kinda lost during part one so I'm not really heart-broken, just curious.

[logan5ive]

Yep, nothing. And no Zep tribute. :(

[The DARK]

From what I heard, the band had to nix it due to the cost of getting MSG workers to move their asses across the room. For such a huge show, it's a shame that the venue tried to water the celebration down by overcharging the band and putting on time constraints that probably cut the second set in half (they could have easily played another hour  :()

[logan5ive]

Interesting. They could have started the show earlier then. Or at least at 9pm when it was supposed to start. Not bitter or complainin', just sayin'.

[el_chode]

the unions are killing the live music scene. i first noticed it at a ween show in philly.

i missed half the RCMH show because I was caught in traffic driving from Delaware to NYC. I left the Philly area roughly at 3 pm and didn't get to NYC until 9. By the time I parked, it was almost 9:45 and I missed half the set. I wasn't worried at the time because I figured the NYC rules of "ticket says 8, that means that the music won't start until 9:30" still applied.

Imagine my shock when the lights came on at 11 PM

[ms. yvon]

dylan, pardon me for hijacking your thread here...

re:  union regulations:  unions are not killing live music.

i belong to the union that represents stage technicians and workers.  believe me, those hourly wages, overtime requirements and regulations are in place for a reason.

the reason it is expensive to keep workers late is to dissuade shows from doing so.  it used to be far too easy for shows to take advantage of workers, keeping them past their contracted hours without compensation.

when you play smaller venues, you don't have as many constraints.  that said, our union has a pretty great health and dental package, too.   [smiley=beer.gif]

[el_chode]

dylan, pardon me for hijacking your thread here...

re:  union regulations:  unions are not killing live music.

i belong to the union that represents stage technicians and workers.  believe me, those hourly wages, overtime requirements and regulations are in place for a reason.

the reason it is expensive to keep workers late is to dissuade shows from doing so.  it used to be far too easy for shows to take advantage of workers, keeping them past their contracted hours without compensation.

when you play smaller venues, you don't have as many constraints.  that said, our union has a pretty great health and dental package, too.   [smiley=beer.gif]

sorry to flame or anything, i don't mean to be a dick about it, but yes, as you admit, the union IS killing live music by giving us all an 11 pm curfew by dissuading venues from allowing an artist that true encore and extended set.

the solution from the union would be to negotiate better working conditions that also allow the show to go into the wee hours. if you don't like that, then don't be a stagehand.

when i'm forking out $50 for a mediocre seat and paying $9 per beer (so thank me for your cushy benefits, since I personally don't have a dental plan (ewww)), that concert is and has to be my only entertainment for the night, so make it my night. the odds of me seeing MMJ in a venue in NYC or philly not subject to these rules are close to none, unfortunately. :-/

if I wanted a curfew, i'd go see the jonas brothers and have my mom pick me up in the parking lot.

[harpua51]

dylan, pardon me for hijacking your thread here...

re:  union regulations:  unions are not killing live music.

i belong to the union that represents stage technicians and workers.  believe me, those hourly wages, overtime requirements and regulations are in place for a reason.

the reason it is expensive to keep workers late is to dissuade shows from doing so.  it used to be far too easy for shows to take advantage of workers, keeping them past their contracted hours without compensation.

when you play smaller venues, you don't have as many constraints.  that said, our union has a pretty great health and dental package, too.   [smiley=beer.gif]

sorry to flame or anything, i don't mean to be a dick about it, but yes, as you admit, the union IS killing live music by giving us all an 11 pm curfew by dissuading venues from allowing an artist that true encore and extended set.

the solution from the union would be to negotiate better working conditions that also allow the show to go into the wee hours. if you don't like that, then don't be a stagehand.

when i'm forking out $50 for a mediocre seat and paying $9 per beer (so thank me for your cushy benefits, since I personally don't have a dental plan (ewww)), that concert is and has to be my only entertainment for the night, so make it my night. the odds of me seeing MMJ in a venue in NYC or philly not subject to these rules are close to none, unfortunately. :-/

if I wanted a curfew, i'd go see the jonas brothers and have my mom pick me up in the parking lot.

If you wanted dental maybe you should consider being a stage hand  :)

[ALady]

dylan, pardon me for hijacking your thread here...

re:  union regulations:  unions are not killing live music.
i belong to the union that represents stage technicians and workers.  believe me, those hourly wages, overtime requirements and regulations are in place for a reason.

the reason it is expensive to keep workers late is to dissuade shows from doing so.  it used to be far too easy for shows to take advantage of workers, keeping them past their contracted hours without compensation.

when you play smaller venues, you don't have as many constraints.  that said, our union has a pretty great health and dental package, too.   [smiley=beer.gif]

Thank you, yvon.  This needed to be said.

Please tell me if I have this right - the venue generally sets the curfew, not the union.  So it's the venue that doesn't want to pay the workers post-curfew wages?

[rnrkat]

I had heard that one of the reasons that there is an 11:00 curfew is because of insurance....is this true?

[ms. yvon]

Please tell me if I have this right - the venue generally sets the curfew, not the union.  So it's the venue that doesn't want to pay the workers post-curfew wages?

TA-DA!

it's not a matter of not being willing to stay late, it's that we want to be paid according to our negotiated contract.

i will stay as late as the show goes (or deadlines met, on my job), but expect to be compensated.

on my last show i was asked REPEATEDLY to work overtime, and in lieu of billing for the time, take a short work day the following week.  this is ILLEGAL.

worth mentioning:  when we get in the door at 8pm for a show, those workers have been there for HOURS already.  expecting someone to work a 14 hour shift without getting paid overtime is a bit much.

that said:  re:  stage/theatre/film workers:  we do what we do b/c we love it.  we just don't want to be taken advantage of.

[el_chode]

nor would i want you to be exploited. the most important asset anyone has is their skills at whatever they do. but to make things prohibitively expensive as you mentioned really kills it for those of us who like bands (like the jacket) who are rarely going to be able to play a small venue not owned by one of the few monolithic corps controlling the venues (e.g. Livenaton) I know the Duo played at BB Kings til like 5 am, proving the whole small-venue is a free-for-all point.

It's just extremely frustrating to see ticket prices quadruple over the past decade while shows get shorter and shorter, cutting out the openers in many instances. When I was in high school I remember having to sprint out of venues to see if I could make it to Penn Station in time for the last train. Now I walk slowly out of venues to try and make the moment last.

I worked at walmart way back a while ago, i feel ya on that whole work without pay thing. And a lot of my co workers could have used the dental package, that is if dental covers those with less than or equal to one tooth.

[aMillionDreams]

I don't know a whole lot about this but I would suspect that this is one reason MMJ decided to do "an evening with" instead of getting openers.

I wish there were a way to keep the fans and the workers happy, but if it comes at the expense of powerful corporations, we all know it probably won't happen.

No sweat of the thread drift, Yvon.  My question was answered, and this is interesting.

[el_chode]

LiveNation owes it to us to sell cheaper tix than ticketmonster when they get that operation underway.  If the system can conquer Pearl Jam, it can conquer anyone. The scary thing is that Ticketmaster is not a monopoly because of legal loopholes only.

[harpua51]

Live Nation is just as NASTY as TICKETBASTARD......did any of you hear about the Radiohead show in D.C. this past May.....

It rained so hard that Noah and his arc couldnt have gotten to that show....the venue was forced to close 2 of 3 main entrance roads into the venue.....I was told that about 8000 people made it into the venue for a sold out show of 20,0000

Live Nation did not refund a single cent to anyone

So when it says on your ticket rain or shine...you should always keep your fingers crossed for the shine

[ALady]

It's just extremely frustrating to see ticket prices quadruple over the past decade while shows get shorter and shorter, cutting out the openers in many instances.

I'd attribute this to LiveNation and Ticketmaster more than I would the unions.

[Sassbox]

Live Nation is just as NASTY as TICKETBASTARD......did any of you hear about the Radiohead show in D.C. this past May.....

It rained so hard that Noah and his arc couldnt have gotten to that show....the venue was forced to close 2 of 3 main entrance roads into the venue.....I was told that about 8000 people made it into the venue for a sold out show of 20,0000

Live Nation did not refund a single cent to anyone

So when it says on your ticket rain or shine...you should always keep your fingers crossed for the shine

Not only did I hear about it...I was there.  UGH.  Worst experience of my life.  It took us five hours to drive less than 20 miles to our hotel after the show.  And that was after spending the entire time trying not to slide down the hill during the show due to the torrential rain (btw, first and last time I ever take lawn seats).

They didn't issue refunds, but you did have the option of getting a ticket to another Nissan Pavilion show (NO WAY IN HELL) or Radiohead tix for the NJ show in August.

[el_chode]

It's just extremely frustrating to see ticket prices quadruple over the past decade while shows get shorter and shorter, cutting out the openers in many instances.

I'd attribute this to LiveNation and Ticketmaster more than I would the unions.

Oh yeah without a doubt. I was just turned onto the union problem after a Ween show in Philly that let us out at 10:45.

I just attributed it to Philadelphia treating its citizens like incapable children at first, but then someone there explained it to me.