The MMJF Election Results of 2004

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

I flat out agree with the boar... besides the fact that discussing Kerry v. Bush is outdated and meaningless at this point, it also been well covered on this music-site message board.  While I admire your passion and confidence in expressing that passion- you tend to simplify issues to fit your philosophy.  If a Republican wins the next election, you'll be furious again- regardless of who he is, where he's been, or what he's planning to do, as will millions of other people (same if you reverse it), as I think Boar was pointing out.  You Bush bash, but don't offer a plausible solutions.  You'd said you'd leave the war, I mean not right away, but eventually you say you would.  Sounds almost like a real politician.  I refuse to believe that the President of the United State's goal or desire is for American lives or money to perish in Iraq for no reason other than to have access to Hussain's oil.  

so to go out on a limb...

1.  Explain the connection of Cheney with Halliburton and Conoco.  Coincidence?

2.  My philosophy is one of simplicity.  I refuse to believe that some other countries' internal problems are our problems.  There are no WMD in Iraq.  There is no connection with 9-11 and Iraq.

3.  I have PLENTY of plausible solutions, too many to list here.  Dependence on foreign oil and money to fund our adventures abroad will be the undoing of us all.  I'm sure you'd agree we don't want a dependent America as we pride ourselves in being independent.  The solutions are all around us, but the powers that be that control the purse strings don't want to lose their grip.  History proves that over and over again, there are abrupt changes that throw out the old guard and allow real change to occur (the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, the Civil Rights Movement, the anti-War movement, the Magna Carta, etc. etc.)  What we lack is the impetus, which I believe is coming.  Once the malls and TV shut down, which are society's biggest pacifiers (that and beer, of course), what will people do with their time?  Do you know that 50% of our electricity is generated from coal?  What is that doing to the environment?  What will happen when the coal runs out?  West Virginia's coal is almost gone, Pennsylvania's coal is almost gone...the two biggest deposits in the world!  

I refuse to believe that we don't already have the answers to these questions;  alternative fuel sources, sound fiscal policies, and putting the belief back in America (read:  jobs for all).  There's no reason except for greed that we don't have jobs for everyone.  Until that happens, society's problems will continue.

Yes, this is a music message board, and the above message I posted reflects that.  But I continue to maintain my positions not just because of passion, but because other people here and elsewhere share my belief that we're not heading in the right direction at all.

The solutions are easy and numerous;  we just need to embrace them.

[SmoothOprtr]

I will not be so naive as to believe that Bush/Chaney have nothing to personally gain, nor that their administration is squeeky clean, because I doubt both.  However, you'd have a hard time convincing me that any other modern (or for that matter any other) President isn't guilty of some abuses of power.  Abe Lincoln suspended habeas corpus without even bothering to tell Congress.  Newspaper writers were afraid to write like we are right now.  And Lincoln's generally considered the best we've had!  Unfortunately, it would seem patronage has gone from the cabinet positions of old to government contracts.  I wish it weren't that way, but I'm guessing that you don't become President without playing some ball.  

The funny thing about all this, is on most points, I generally agree with you.  I've had enough Iraq, think No Child Left Behind is a joke, and Bush's clinging to the Bible as an excuses to prejudice gays is a shame- but, particuarly on the last point, that's what a majority of the people still want.  His job is to represent the majority.  Had he not run his campaign on Christian values he would have lost.

Having said all that, there were reports yesterday that Iraq is harboring terrorists, and if the President believes there are weapons there that can further harm our country, he needs to find them.  I could care less about establishing freedom for their citizens, and so could he.


"I refuse to believe that we don't already have the answers to these questions;  alternative fuel sources, sound fiscal policies, and putting the belief back in America (read:  jobs for all).  There's no reason except for greed that we don't have jobs for everyone.  Until that happens, society's problems will continue."

What President wouldn't want to solve all of the countries problems?  Especially if were so simple as you seem to believe they are?  Has there ever been a large society where there 0% unemployment?  If we have alternative fuel sources and ways for everyone to have a job, and Bush is just a greedy ass, why haven't any of his predacessors made any strides to employ them?

Society will always have problems.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Man, I feel the love.  I'm glad we see eye to eye on some things.  You're right, some problems are more complex than I make them out to be, and the previous admins have done what they consider their share.

We've done better in the past on some issues.  There are people out there that will never have jobs, so 0% unemployment is a dream.  BUT, we can do better and strive towards better employment for all, as 30 million Americans live in poverty.  AND, both parties are not totally committed to making the changes I described as they all are in the pockets of big business.  Fascinating, our public TV station had a special on about Woodward Wilson...they faced the same demons in his time, and the attitude was to fight big business.  (obviously he failed over time, but hey)  The labor movement sprung from the working conditions of those times, and advances were made that benefit every working American.  All I'm saying is we should try and make good on that legacy and do what is right for everyone, not just the greedmongers at the top.  Trickle down is a failure.

[The Boar]

Okay, I'm back on the best band forum in the world, after an overnight respite.  :D

John, no worries. I think my use of "offended and outraged" was perhaps a bit strong -- "defensive and peeved" might have been more accurate.

I'm glad that such a forum as this exists in which passionate individuals can exchange passionate viewpoints -- sure, at times those passions may influence our tone and thus the perception of our message. I am probably as guilty of this as anybody. But the great thing is, in my opinion, that we can have a interesting discussion/debate/what-have-you and then accept the fact that are viewpoints are not the same and move on. I wish that happened more often in real life.  :-/

So no need for apologies. But if we're doing them anyway, then I'm sure one is in order for me, and I apologize if the tone of my argument was offensive or overly aggressive. That was not my intent. I think, for my part at least, that we clearly understand our respective positions, and I for one am glad that we had the discussion!

Cheers to you, and here's to the pleasure of "knowing" all of you!

P.S. - And John, if you're ever in Little Rock / St. Louis (home/school) then I'll buy you a drink for being the cool guy and awesome MMJ fan that you are!  ;)

[The Boar]

Why do my posts always end up being so long?   :-/

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

yo, it's all good.  post as long as you like, they DO get read and if you've got something to say, ramble freely!

hmmmm...st. louis eh?  :) there may be a day I come that way!  the offer for Louisville is an open invitation...come on down!  little rock?  i'd love to see that too!

this sounds like it leads to another thread...the one where we all agree to put each other up in our houses if there's a show in town, or at least meet up and get shit faced together!  (scratches chin thoughtfully.....)

[EC]

Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove!!! :)

[sweatboard]

There is nothing you can say that hasn't been said..........

[The Boar]

You're always welcome either place. I can show someone a good time in both cities.  ;D

[SmoothOprtr]

There is nothing you can say that hasn't been said..........

I, um, love you?

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

 ;D

[sweatboard]

All together now!!!!!!!

[MMJ_fanatic]

aye carumba!

[lfish]

Kumbaya my lord Kumbayaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[SMc55]

Kumbaya my lord Kumbayaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

LOL!!!

lfish you are such a funny guy  ;D

[lfish]

Thx! (blush blush bush)