Mother Fucker still can't pronounce "Nuclear"

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

the overwhelming evidence to support what is called "global warming" is just too significant to ignore.  in comparision to ice core samples that accurately chart tens of thousands of years of weather patterns, the atmosphere and ocean temperatures have risen significantly in the past 100 years, and the rise in the use of fossil fuels, which create carbon dioxide as a byproduct in the atmosphere, are also evident in those very ice core samples.  this isn't some coincidence or accident, the industrial age and the age of the auto are directly to blame for that rise in carbon dioxide.  coupled with the use of petrochemicals that caused damage to the ozone layer, which in turn allows for more UV radiation to get through to the atmosphere, it is no wonder real air and real water temperatures are rising.  

i believe it is our nature to ignore problems until they become overwhelming.   a solution to these problems is simple, but costly, and of course money makes the world go round.  unless we do something right now about carbon dioxide emissions, those temperatures will continue to rise.  the effects are already happening-sea levels rising, more frequent and intense tropical storms/hurricanes, and significant changes to the weather patterns.

there are islands in the Pacific that are disappearing because the sea level is rising.  this isn't an accident or random pattern changing;  the rise in sea temperatures is causing the ice caps to melt, creating more ocean that wasn't there before.  AND, because of the overwhelming amount of farm runoff, which is nitrogen based, there is a problem with green algae growing in the ocean that also causes the temperature to rise.  

we just can't sit back anymore and ignore this problem.  I personally drive vehicles that are ULE (ultra low emission) and put out less Co2 than other cars.  My next vehicle will be a hybrid.  It's the little things that collectively we all can do to make a difference.  And it's up to America, the largest producer of carbon dioxide, to make a significant impact on this ever-growing problem.

Sorry for the long post, but this is one of my passions.

[Mr. T.]

The planet goes through natural progressions of heating and cooling. We have history to prove this.

You can't predict the future using history, therefore we have (natural) science. That's elementary, my dear zycartrobz.

[ycartrob]

You can't predict the future using history, therefore we have (natural) science. That's elementary, my dear zycartrobz.

OK, guess I'll wait to see what comes next here in Nashville; Autumn, Spring or Summer.

I am hoping for Autumn. I'd like football season to start in late March. And then Spring for June and heck, I'd say October will be great for Winter. However, since I can't predict the future based on history, here's to Auntumn starting tomorrow...Who do the Saints play?

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

those are just names we assigned for the seasons.  natural science is an entire discipline.  we can say it will be spring soon, but overall, can we predict what the weather is going to be just because a calendar says it's going to be spring?  

i think those are two very seperate things.

[ratsprayer]

the arctic ice caps are melting, yes the north pole is getting much warmer, but the south pole is getting colder.  the magnetic poles are very long overdue in switching places, id say theres a good chance this will happen in most of our life times.  you cant just point at the factors of the weather that point to things getting warmer.  there are places in the world getting colder.  due to the atlantic current coming off greenland, the climate in europe is expected to drop an estimated 10 degrees farenheit in the next 20 to 30 years.  thats an insanely large change in such a short amount of time.  mother nature works in balance, friends.  some times its not a balance we can comprehend or accept.  for every place getting big time warm, theres some place getting big time cold.  lots of rain some place, no so much somewhere else.  people get used to their area of existence having a certain sort of weather, and it just doesnt stay the same forever.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

well, those are changes in the weather and not necessarily to the climate.  two very different things.

regardless of pattern changes, the sea level rising should be a concern to anyone who lives within the coastal areas of any country on earth.  if the sea level continues to rise, what will happen to the trillions of dollars of infrastructure that's on those shores, not to mention the millions of people who live there?  

[ratsprayer]

id say long term temperature change is more climate than weather.  climate is in the midst of change, so the weather is fluctuating right now, they are connected in lots of ways.  a few years of intense hurricane activity is weather, not climate.

i do agree the world is getting warmer, and i know green house gases have a factor, im just arguing the amount of  influcene they have.  yes, without a doubt, we should do what we can to curb it, but i think the earth is getting warmer regardless.  

look at the boxing day 2004 earthquake and the resulting tsunami.  entire islands were engulfed there.  earthquakes, they have nothing to do with weather, and coasts and physical land masses can be consumed.  the earth does as it wishes.  sure, we help, but certain things are just going to happen, no matter what we do or dont do.

[Mr. T.]

 the earth does as it wishes.  sure, we help, but certain things are just going to happen, no matter what we do or dont do.

I wonder if anybody read Jared Diamond's "Collapse"? It's a great book. Diamond's message is this:

 "What lessons can we draw from history? The most straightforward: take environmental problems seriously. They destroyed societies in the past, and they are even more likely to do so now"

just 2 examples (there are more):

Maya societies just as the Polynesian society on Easter Island all vanished because of environmental degradation by people: deforestation, soil erosion and water management problems, all of which resulted in less food. Those problems were exacerbated by droughts, which may have been partly caused by humans themselves through deforestation. Chronic warfare made matters worse, as more and more people fought over less and less land and resources.

    Why weren't these problems obvious to the Maya kings or to the polynesians, who could surely see their forests vanishing and their hills becoming eroded?

Part of the reason was that the kings were able to insulate themselves from problems afflicting the rest of society. By extracting wealth from commoners, they could remain well fed while everyone else was slowly starving.

    What's more, the kings were preoccupied with their own power struggles. They had to concentrate on fighting one another and keeping up their images through ostentatious displays of wealth. By insulating themselves in the short run from the problems of society, the elite merely bought themselves the privilege of being among the last to starve.

If 6,000 Polynesians with stone tools were able to destroy Mangareva Island, consider what six billion people with metal tools and bulldozers are doing today. Moreover, while the Maya collapse affected just a few neighboring societies in Central America, globalization now means that any society's problems have the potential to affect anyone else. Just think how crises in Somalia, Afghanistan and Iraq have shaped the United States today.

Does that rings a bell?

It can happen again...

[ratsprayer]

see im not arguing the humans have no part in the destruction of the world, quite opposite.  yes destroying trees and plants can lead to erosion and lack of food, medicine, etc.  im saying that natural disasters can and do affect the weather and climate, and theres nothing we can do about those.  we have a responsbility as a race of creature to protect the environment in which we live.  it just seems to me that a lot of the scope of global warming seems to follow the belief that we as humans are 100% responsible for the weather and climate changes, and thats simply not true.  we have a huge part in it, but theres also a massive underlying natural scope of things that is truly not understood.

[Mr. T.]

You're absolutely right :)

Dinosaurs didn't do anything wrong did they, and where are they now ;D?

My fear is that once we understand everything, it might be too late.

Diamond once more:

 "History also teaches us two deeper lessons about what separates successful societies from those heading toward failure. A society contains a built-in blueprint for failure if the elite insulates itself from the consequences of its actions. That's why Maya kings and Easter Island chiefs made choices that eventually undermined their societies. They themselves did not begin to feel deprived until they had irreversibly destroyed their landscape.

I think we already now more than enough to ACT.
(not that I'm all too positive about the human race and its future though)

as long as there is Rock 'n' Roll... 8)

[ycartrob]

I can distinctly remember in 1972 listening in horror as Walter Cronkite reported that Houston, Texas was sinking and would be in the Gulf of Mexico by the end of the century.

Scared the shit out of me.

And then the Killer Bees?HORRORFIED!  Don't get me started!

[ycartrob]

those are just names we assigned for the seasons.  natural science is an entire discipline.  we can say it will be spring soon, but overall, can we predict what the weather is going to be just because a calendar says it's going to be spring?  

i think those are two very seperate things.

I will bet you a large sum of money that the average temperature in summer will be higher than the average temperature in winter; that's my prediction. If you disagree with my logic, then let's bet (and I mean, a lot of money).

[marktwain]

Backtracking...
Here's critical analysis of the Truthfulness of Bush's speech, by nonpartisan factcheck.org. (Basically, he's not a liar, he just doesn't tell the truth)
http://www.factcheck.org/article376.html
My favorite bit:
"Bush spoke of a "goal" of cutting dependence on Middle Eastern oil, failing to mention that US dependence on imported oil and petroleum products increased substantially during his first five years in office, reaching 60 per cent of consumption last year."

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

I will bet you a large sum of money that the average temperature in summer will be higher than the average temperature in winter; that's my prediction. If you disagree with my logic, then let's bet (and I mean, a lot of money).

that's not logic;  it's semantics.  

[ycartrob]

that's not logic;  it's semantics.  

Not semantics at all. The average air temperature in the summer (where I live) is warmer than the average air temperature in the winter. I will bet you (through sound reasoning ie logic) that this summer will be warmer than this winter. The "rule" (via mother nature) that summer is warmer than winter (where I live) cannot be disputed. Of course this is based on many assumptions such as the sun still creating energy and the earth tilt on it's axis, etc...

My prediction is based in logic. You can call this season of higher temperature "poodle doo" if you want, it still doesn't refute that it will be warmer in 4 months than cooler.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Whatever you say, Master Sensei.  

(rolls eyes)

[ratsprayer]

you two are pure entertainment, in a good way.   8)

[realdeal]

he mispronounces it on purpose because it endears him to some of the idiots who vote for him.  He's a lot smarter than people think, it's the American public that is dumb.

I agree, he talks in that slow, southern type way so he can connect to all the fucking conservative, republican, nascar loving, bible- reading, ford- driving, larry the cable guy watching, walmart shopping rednecks that live in this society will understand him.

Fuck Bush, Cheney, and the whole crooked administration.

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

all we need to do is get someone to recreate dinosaurs, perhaps on a small island somewhere with jeff goldblum involved. then the dinos can escape, wreak havoc, die.... wait a couple mil years, and we'll have oil again.  dinos rule

[ratsprayer]

in the midst of my reading about such things, i came across the fact that it takes the energy equivalent of one barrel of oil to get one barrel of oil from the ground.  god, fucking neo-cons and oil execs are so brilliant!