Tom Cruise

[ali]

tom cruise is a tool. i have no time for the man AT ALL

Remember,Muslims worlwide want to take over the world and push their religion on everyone,because in their eyes,we are the evil ones,the non believers in their religion.Also,you cannot be an Islam member if you belong to another race.This religion is hate filled and dangerous and I stand by my comments that it is a violent religion.

hideously outrageously stereotypical generalisations anyone?

islam is not a violent religion. if you take that attitude, christianity and a fair few other major world religions are "violent" also. it is the (few) extremists who take the tenets of a religion & twist them to their own ends, who get all the media attention, who are the violent ones. and that is not just limited to islam. christians and others have twisted the words & ideas of their religions to suit their own purposes. that is a human thing to do (ie in the simplest terms, manipulating circumstances to your own benefit) and while the world media has been focussing on certain events & actions of recent years carried out by extremists, there are a ginormous number of peaceful muslims, peaceful arabs, peaceful people of all backgrounds who just want to live their lives. to say that muslims are all violent, and want to take over the world is one of the most ridiculous, ignorant over-generalisations i've ever heard. you can, infact, become a muslim even if you are not of the same "race". which race are you talking about anyway? there are many muslim nations around the world, and not all of them are arab nations.

guns don't kill people, people do. i know it sounds trite, but it's true.

To compare the violence generated in the Muslim world to the Crusades is just plain pointless--Muslims have been violent, fanatical, and intolerant through their entire history while other faiths have grown and become accepting of other's practices

this is utter RUBBISH.

three months ago, a very large mob of white, christian-in-background, young men rioted in a suburb of sydney, bashing up anyone they came across who wasn't white. they were caught on camera, yelling and screaming for these people to "go back where they came from" etc, even though the men they assaulted were all in fact born in australia. it was and still is, extremely scary to see such intolerance, ignorance and hatred shown by anyone.

christians can be just as intolerant as anyone - just look at anti-abortion or anti-gay attitudes taken by a lot of christian groups. i know we all have our own beliefs and personal truths, but condemning a woman because she has an abortion, or a man or woman just because they are gay is the worst kind of intolerance. intolerance stems from ignorance, and fear. tolerance is accepting diversity in people, even if that very diversity is something that you don't understand or like.

[ycartrob]

It was mentioned that Muslims have been viloent and fanatical since their inception as a faith.  Without being historically knowledgeable enough towards the  Muslim faith I find this hard to believe.  It seems that most religions' histories are steeped in violence.  The statement that Christianity  as a whole has become the progenitor  in some way towards espousing tolerance of other faiths I also find a bit suspect.   Living in the Southeast I have encountered plenty of intolerant Christians, who seem to believe anyone who practices another faith is a heretic and unless converted beyond redemption.

Chris, that's not the intolerance I was talking about. Hopefully it's OK for someone to believe what they want to. There are plenty of people who believe I am a total idiot b/c of my Christian beliefs. I am comfortable with that.

The intolerance I am speaking about was the Muslim riots over comic strips depicting Mohammad in a humorous light. Christians are an everyday target of hate and sarcasm and stereotypes and we tolerate this (along with the Jesus on the cross in urine and feces that I posted earlier). We don't take to the streets and riot if Jesus is made fun of. We are more tolerant than that. Or is that not tolerance?

[chris]

ycartrob, I agree with you when you're mentioning this form of tolerance, I guess I was referring to a different form of tolerance.  I can't really speak to the topic of the riots after the publication of the cartoons, b/c again I'm not knowledgeable enough on Islam to comment on why so many Muslims were outraged by the publications.  My primary argument all along has been the contention by some that Muslims are violent and hateful, and wish to take over the world; and that this is somehow indicative of what their religion dictates or espouses.  I have yet to hear from anyone with an acute knowledge of the religion itself who has the authority to make such statements.  This topic has taken a few twists and turns since we began debating Tommy Boy.

[ali]

I actually presented this notion to a friend of mine, and her response was that Christians are not passionate enough about their beliefs to protest.

i think, at least for the christians that i know, they are passionate about their beliefs, they just choose to keep them to themselves.

making fun of anyone's belief system or religious figures, regardless if they are christian or jewish or muslim, isn't right in my opinion. there is having a sense of humour, there is freedom of speech and expression, and then there is putting something out into the public realm which you know is deliberately provactive. given the current climate of suspicion and ignorance in the west to islam, i was not suprised that the riots happened. it was awful that they happened, and that people died. when the jesus in urine work came to australia a few years back, people did protest. one person even tried to destroy it, they found it so offensive. you can claim freedom of expression and speech til the cows come home, but you have to also use your brain & consider the consequences. christians and muslims have different attitudes to their faith & religious figures, even individual christians are not the same with regard to attitude to their own religion. i can't say, just because i wouldn't go out and burn a flag if someone bagged my beliefs, that it is wrong for someone else to feel that is the best way to express their outrage. i don't think christians are more tolerant, maybe its more to do with being western, and western attitudes to media scrutiny & satire.  

[ali]

I actually presented this notion to a friend of mine, and her response was that Christian's are not passionate enough about their beliefs to protest.

from what i understand, it is forbidden to portray an image of the prophet.

[ali]

oops wrong quote....

I can't really speak to the topic of the riots after the publication of the cartoons, b/c again I'm not knowledgeable enough on Islam to comment on why so many Muslims were outraged by the publications

[Jellyfish]

    *  Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia.  A Christian school.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt.  No Muslim outrage.
    * A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India.  Kills six.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia.  Muslims shoot children in the back.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Let's go way back.  Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses.  Over 700 are injured.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons.  No Muslim outrage
    * Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge.  No Muslim outrage.
    * Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed.  Muslims are outraged.

[ycartrob]

Jellyfish, how do you know there was no Muslim outrage?

[ratsprayer]

*  Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia.  A Christian school.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt.  No Muslim outrage.
   * A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India.  Kills six.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia.  Muslims shoot children in the back.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Let's go way back.  Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses.  Over 700 are injured.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons.  No Muslim outrage
   * Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge.  No Muslim outrage.
   * Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed.  Muslims are outraged.

i think your posts typify stereotypical jingoistic beliefs.  yes, how do you know theres no musilm outrage?  youve spent every post demoniziing musilms, and your remarks are at best laughable and somewhat frightening that youre part of a group of people in this country that give no thought to whats going on, except what you hear from the media.

que bono?  thats latin for 'who benefits?'

ask yourself who benefits from glorifying musilms as radical, insane, violent, freedom-hating individuals.  

[MMJ_fanatic]

I thought we were discussing Tom Cruise & scientology?  (lower case signifying lack it's of credibility).

[chris]

Jellyfish, I guess you somehow have the ability to account for every act of outrage exhibited by every Muslim around the world for atrocities commited by their fellow Muslims.  I find these statements extremely myopic.  And all sarcasm aside, how do you know there is no Muslim outrage? Oh, that's right your already told us about all your knoweldge regarding Islam and all of its followers.   Xenophobia seems to be the basis for the majority of your statements.

[Jellyfish]

I thought we were discussing Tom Cruise & scientology?  (lower case signifying lack it's of credibility).

Yes we were and that was my fault,I apologize for that......I just couldn't figure why everyone was so upset at Cruise's religious beliefs,when in the grand scheme of things his religion is quite harmless.

All I am saying is it took a cartoon to upset the Muslim's...and thats when I heard the outrage....I didn't hear it before...maybe that was the media's fault,or maybe it just wasn't there...but we can all agree that we all heard it after those cartoon's were printed.

I will say no more on this subject since it is pointless and some are getting a little offended...we are all gonna believe what we want to anyway,no matter what we read here.

As you were.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Wow!  Great discussion, good volley of ideas back and forth...I stayed out of this one, but I'll chime in (albeit late)

Religion, regardless of its name or structure or belief system, has bad people inside of it.  Blaming all of Islam with the acts of individuals inside of the faith of Islam is incorrect, IMHO.  We have the 20/20 hindsight of history to show us that the Crusades, slavery, the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, etc. were all henious acts committed on a societal level in the name of one religion or another.  Religion and commerce often intersect in that regard-like with slavery, or even serfdom-the Crusades didn't just happen because the Christians of the world wanted to save the holy land from Muslims.  

Until we all realize that bad people are everywhere, regardless of their faith, the debate about Islam will rage on with the media slanted myopic views about it intact.  George Bush claims to be a Christian;  but by the logic of this argument, all Chrisitans are evil people because of what he orders our military to do, regardless of the reasons why.  Do we really want Christianity to be represented by someone like him?  Obviously, no.  So by the same token, should Islam be represented by the extremists?

And back to topic:  Tom Cruise's "beliefs" are hardly an issue for me, but when he attacks psychiatry predicated on the tenets of a so called "religion", I have a problem with that.  Until Mr. Cruise has gone back to college and been properly educated on the issue, he should shut his pie hole about it.  Kinda like getting a valid opinion of podiatry from Paris Hilton...



She's pretty enough, but she doesn't know shit about feet.  

[MMJ_fanatic]

She's pretty enough, but she doesn't know shit about feet.  

hey she does a pretty good job coloring her nails!

[primushead]

I'd say she does a pretty good job at marketing...

[Jellyfish]

I'd say she does a pretty good job at marketing...

Yep,among other things..... ;D

[wellfleet]

chiming in too...

when i lived in israel, i lived near Arab people who were Christian or Muslim. oddly enough, despite buses i used to ride on or restaurants i ate at being blown up by terrorist groups, i was not afraid of Arab people, Muslim or Christian. in school, we studied the First Testament as history/fable, not religion. we also had to learn Arabic and learn about Islam.

Jellyfish, although many acts of violence have been perpetrated by people of the Muslim faith, there are acts of violence TODAY perpetrated in the name of Christianity and Judaism and Islam. How about abortion clinics being bombed? How about gay people being attacked? All in the name of religion... Maybe the reason you can't SEE Muslim outrage is because there are very few Muslim-majority democracies and the people are afraid to speak out. Kuwait has the only elected parliament. Rules of law are loosely interpreted and punishment is doled out unequally. Living in the US, you can speak against every issue and not go to jail or be stoned to death (well, almost), but not all the world's countries operate like that. Muslim outrage is real and quite painful BECAUSE the regular Jordanian or Iraqi or Lebanese citizen is afraid of speaking up and speaking out. Not everyone in the world enjoys freedom of speech as mandated by a constitution and protected by society.

i should have every reason to fear Muslim people but i don't. at the end of the day, it's the most deperate, the most hopeless, the most unlucky who commit these acts of extreme violence. you are so lucky to live in a country where even the most hopeless have more hope than some people in the Middle East. suicide bombers aren't born that way, they are bred in a culture of fear, in poverty, oppression, unemployment, homogenization... i'm not black or native-american, but i think i would have plenty of reasons to feel outrage if i were... push a man's face into mud enough times, he's going to snap no matter what his creed or religion.

and as an aside, Muslims are not a "race". Islam is a religion, not a country of origin. Indonesia has the highest Muslim population in the world but not many people are aware of that. there are Muslims in Sudan and India and Spain that are native to those countries.

i, for one, worship at the Church of Reverb. Can i hear an amen?

[Form91225]

What about the Church of the Poison Mind?

[wellfleet]

Rolling Stone got tons of hate mail following their piece on Scientology from members of the faith who were upset.

[ali]

well said, wellfleet  :)

i, for one, worship at the Church of Reverb. Can i hear an amen?

AMEN to that!